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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.04.24 08:13:00 -
[31]
When CCP first released alchemy mechanics, they had their numbers completely wrong - they were based on the ferrogel pos exploit where immense amounts of stuff was created out of nowhere and injected into the game. CCP promised to watch the alchemy stuff closely and if necessary to adjust it.
After the pos exploit and removal of the buggy mechanics nothing happened to the alchemy though. Latest at that time CCP should have stepped forward and should have adjusted numbers for alchemy.
But nothing happened. Except just another broken promise. So, nothing new there.
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Zerv
UK1 Zero
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Posted - 2009.04.24 17:07:00 -
[32]
If they just change the insane 10:1 ratio on building in alchemy its all fine. Currently making dysporite to replace dysprosium in ferro/fermi chains takes way way to long even tho dysporite is now cheaper to buy than to make.
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Azerath
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.26 06:59:00 -
[33]
2 more r64 moons taken yesterday. *evil grin* Prices will be right where goons want em in the current and near timeline me thinks.
Buckle down :)
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Ravenja
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Posted - 2009.04.26 07:44:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Frenden Dax
One possible option would be to introduce trace amounts of the higher end moon minerals into lower end moons. For example, a moon that mostly produces howling garbage (i.e. atmospheric gases) might give a tiny portion of dyspro or prom or something else. Another would be to adjust alchemy to be more efficient.
Seconded.
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Caelum Mortuos
Gallente
Zero G Research and Development
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Posted - 2009.04.26 09:13:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Azerath
2 more r64 moons taken yesterday. *evil grin* Prices will be right where goons want em in the current and near timeline me thinks.
Buckle down :)
I will lol if CCP nerf's dyspro moon income right after you all secure the last moon
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.04.26 11:21:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Caelum Mortuos
Originally by: Azerath
2 more r64 moons taken yesterday. *evil grin* Prices will be right where goons want em in the current and near timeline me thinks.
Buckle down :)
I will lol if CCP nerf's dyspro moon income right after you all secure the last moon
The thing is, that even if they nerfed it 15 minutes after, they still would have been worth taking. The incentive to hold space vs the incentive to hold particular moons is no longer there. There once was a time when you needed to occupy and manually exploit your area of space, now just controlling a moon for a few weeks is more than enough.
Quite obviously cadmium > dysprosium was a huge mistake, because all the cadmium in game only equals 20% more dysprosium, and you still need the cadmium for the other reactions. It really should have been an R8 or even a heap of gasses. The replacement should have been basically effort based, not again material based, just like T2 invention is based upon more people doing it as it becomes more profitable - without limit. The replacement here was even more limited than what it is supposed to be replacing.
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Mystafyre
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.26 11:31:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Mystafyre on 26/04/2009 11:31:47
Originally by: info specialist
Well I was shocked about the eve-central price for Promithium while at work today reflecting a spike. But logging in when I got home to check and WOW. To my surprise Dysprosium is about 240,000 with only about 100,000 units available for sell.
Now, I know CCP has said they would step in if they found after the POS scandal, that if material ran out then they would step in and do something about it. Well, I would define this as running out since there is always a small amount going to be for sell as the moons pump it out.
At what point will CCP determine there just isn't enough raw materials for the customer base as it is. We have more and more pilots without the ability to increase the raw materials. This imbalance will also throw the entire structure as it is out of wack. It used to be only the gases were not profitable to harvest and then react but it has moved to the racial specific simple reactions for some time now. With the overpriced high end materials, there just won't be as many T2 products and as such all the other materials are over mined and over reacted.
How High is too high CCP?
There is few things going on now.
T3 production
Many people who had been exhausted on T2 invention with small profits are now focusing more into T3 production since profits are still high. This gives traders a good chance for manipulation and large scale T2 manufacturers.
Delve
Goonswarm just got it's first sov 4 in Delve. It's not yet a fortress. But if this napfest continues, the supply starts kick in with high gear, and don't forget the north. It's been in stable condition for a long time.
T2 scam
The reactor scam left it's mark to supply. The lost supply was massive portion of the whole supply. I highly doubt that the T2 prices will ever be so low level that they were at January 2009.
Only thing what is ****ing me off is that even when the T2 scam went public I didn't start buying large stocks of T2 ships. That was probably the best market opportunity in the New Eden for years.
Marauders from 600 -> 300, BlackOps from 450 -> 750, assault frigs from 10 to way over 20 and so on...  
And there is always a fear of large scale invasion against low sec POSs. We all know that lowsec is filled with research POSs owned by alt corporations who can't defend themselves.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.04.26 14:11:00 -
[38]
humm i just came up with a funny theory....
could dysprosium and tritanium prices be slightly connected?
alliances generally pump up their cap fleet with the money from those moons and i'm sure somebody can pull some numbers from the databes as to how much tritanium goes into capital components.
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putting the gist back into logistics |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.04.26 14:26:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mystafyre
Only thing what is ****ing me off is that even when the T2 scam went public I didn't start buying large stocks of T2 ships. That was probably the best market opportunity in the New Eden for years.
Marauders from 600 -> 900, BlackOps from 450 -> 750, assault frigs from 10 to way over 20 and so on...
Anyone who reads here with regularity will know that Akita pointed out the coming spike well before the exploit was made public. He also was one of the few to note that the mats had to be coming from somewhere and there was an unusual influx of materials on the market. |
Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2009.04.26 15:46:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Quite obviously cadmium > dysprosium was a huge mistake, because all the cadmium in game only equals 20% more dysprosium, and you still need the cadmium for the other reactions. It really should have been an R8 or even a heap of gasses. The replacement should have been basically effort based, not again material based, just like T2 invention is based upon more people doing it as it becomes more profitable - without limit. The replacement here was even more limited than what it is supposed to be replacing.
Exactly.
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JanSVK
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Posted - 2009.04.27 07:26:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Quite obviously cadmium > dysprosium was a huge mistake, because all the cadmium in game only equals 20% more dysprosium, and you still need the cadmium for the other reactions. It really should have been an R8 or even a heap of gasses. The replacement should have been basically effort based, not again material based, just like T2 invention is based upon more people doing it as it becomes more profitable - without limit. The replacement here was even more limited than what it is supposed to be replacing.
Exactly.
I agree. Now with dispo, cadmium prices are also rising. I thought that as Cadmium is a r16 min there is 4 times more then Dyspo. Anyway as a large amouth of this Cadmium is being already comsumed by the standard T2 reaction production there is not much left for alchemy(20:1) anyway.
As the amouth of moon materials is limited and probably already reached the limit of how much can be produced I think the idea of alchemy using moon material as input is wrong. Right now I don't see any way for players to meet the increasing demand. I would suggest to change the input to minerals which can be mined and when demand increases ppl can go out and mine to meet the demand.
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Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
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Posted - 2009.04.27 15:36:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Midas Man on 27/04/2009 15:40:43
Originally by: Gnulpie
When CCP first released alchemy mechanics, they had their numbers completely wrong - they were based on the ferrogel pos exploit where immense amounts of stuff was created out of nowhere and injected into the game. CCP promised to watch the alchemy stuff closely and if necessary to adjust it.
This was a poor excuse on CCP's part tbh.
1) CCP knew about the shortages of certain materials.
2) CCP stated that they didn't have any numbers on how much material was being created by the exploit. And needed more investigation.
3) CCP know how many moons there are
4) CCP knows how much can be harvested from those moons.
Now ask yourself when CCP were thinking about implementing alchemy did they a) use the unknown numbers of exploited materials or b) use very bad maths on known numbers.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.04.27 16:26:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Midas Man
Edited by: Midas Man on 27/04/2009 15:40:43
Originally by: Gnulpie
When CCP first released alchemy mechanics, they had their numbers completely wrong - they were based on the ferrogel pos exploit where immense amounts of stuff was created out of nowhere and injected into the game. CCP promised to watch the alchemy stuff closely and if necessary to adjust it.
This was a poor excuse on CCP's part tbh.
1) CCP knew about the shortages of certain materials.
2) CCP stated that they didn't have any numbers on how much material was being created by the exploit. And needed more investigation.
3) CCP know how many moons there are
4) CCP knows how much can be harvested from those moons.
Now ask yourself when CCP were thinking about implementing alchemy did they a) use the unknown numbers of exploited materials or b) use very bad maths on known numbers.
Very bad maths on current numbers given that all new T2 that has been introduced actually uses the same ratios despite a proven pattern of original T2 using varying racial ratios.
Someone pretty much copy pasta the mat requirements when creating jump freights, marauders, etc.. which is just **** poor game design IMHO. |
Dzil
Caldari
Tritanium Science and Research
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Posted - 2009.04.27 17:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Caelum Mortuos
Originally by: Azerath
2 more r64 moons taken yesterday. *evil grin* Prices will be right where goons want em in the current and near timeline me thinks.
Buckle down :)
I will lol if CCP nerf's dyspro moon income right after you all secure the last moon
CCP cheat and/or change game mechanics to grief griefers?
Inconceivable!
/jedi mind wave You've never heard of goonswarm or the privateer alliance /end jedi mind wave
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Verite Rendition
Caldari
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.04.27 22:42:00 -
[45]
Originally by: JanSVK
I think the idea of alchemy using moon material as input is wrong.
I disagree, I don't think the idea is wrong, the design is wrong. There are plenty of R8s and gasses, and some of the R16s, R32s, and even R64s are overabundant compared to their use. The problem is that in attempting to solve the R64 supply issue, they created a 1:1 mapping of R16s to R64s, at a reaction ratio of 1:20. This resulted in the entire supply of the associated R16 only being enough to increase R64 production by 20%, and causing only that severely constrained R16 to be usable in alchemy for the R64 it is to replace. In other words, by limiting the creation of any given R64 to a single R16, they made it impossible to actually meet demand.
It's possible to keep alchemy and meet demands, but the inputs need to be widened. Those undervalued/oversupplied minerals need to be convertible.
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FREE Explorer
Lead Megalomanic
EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map
http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.04.28 08:39:00 -
[46]
T3 materials will be available in greater supply with an exponential increase in production relative to the number of parties hunting for those W-space sites.
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