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Alpha Dragh Caldari Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner	Posted - 2009.04.29 16:23:00 - [1] Hello, This is Gemeinschaft Interstellarer Soeldner's view of the events which, according to some sources, contributed to the disbanding of Foundati0n. ISD Calen Orvance, on 2009.04.23 reported in an EVE Insider article : "[...] A sizeable number of [FDN] pilots argue that the story began with a failed fleet operation in Egmar. According to these pilots, a Universal Exports [UNI] member was declared KOS by Lord Maldoror after he failed to broadcast a cyno beacon to the fleet during an engagement resulting in significant losses. [...] " However in his report, there was no reference to the combined GIS & COM-STAR counterpart fleet, involved in the engagement, which actively started the fight and won it. The engagement was preceded by a GIS / COM-STAR combined fleet sieging a [FND] POS. The Egmar pocket is currently the operation base of the two merc corporations. In this area, they provide a service called "Moon on Demand", basically removing any neutral POS installations from locations their customers are interested in installing their own POSes. However during this particular POS attack, [FND] responded with a rather large CAP hotdrop and the merc fleet decided not to escalate and retreated towards Egmar. In that moment, intel came that [FND] is en route to Egmar with a ~40BS fleet, probably to additionally assist their POS with non-CAP forces. GIS / C-S command decided to engage the enemy fleet in Egmar at the Orfrold gate, after optimizing the fleet fittings for short range combat. GIS / C-S managed to win the engagement with an 81% efficiency and 30 ships destroyed (18 BS) vs. only 8 ships lost (3 BS). As we understand from the official report, the main cyno pilot was Airborne Kiwi, which - mainly due alphabetic target calling at the beginning of the fight - was primaried and lost his ship in seconds. It seems that the main tactic of the [FND] fleet was to base itself on their large CAP support, and not relying on their BS fleet. The POS in question has been successfully removed two weeks later. Additional links: Foundation Incident (english)- video of related events (Story, PVP, Effects) Roleplay story (german) thanks for reading, Alpha Dragh GIS PR Public Relations G.I.S. Gemeinschaft Interstellarer S÷ldner - Mercs For Hire -
Captian Duffy Gallente Darke Aurora Dark Crystal Empire	Posted - 2009.04.29 16:24:00 - [2] Interesting development. I will let CAOD know what Captian Duffy thinks about it later on.
Fat Ducker Amarr Lucky Hydra Corp	Posted - 2009.04.29 17:53:00 - [3] Originally by: Captian Duffy Interesting development. I will let CAOD know what Captian Duffy thinks about it later on. As long as this is done without any expectation of COAD caring, then press on good sir!
Rajere Gallente No Trademark	Posted - 2009.04.29 18:30:00 - [4] Edited by: Rajere on 29/04/2009 18:30:20 Quote: It seems that the main tactic of the [FND] fleet was to base itself on their large CAP support, and not relying on their BS fleet. Yeah that was their MO. They must have really gone down hill since the days when I used to fight them, cus they used to have Cyno's fit on all of their BSes to avoid problems like that. That explains why they disbanded I guess. The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR
steveid Amarr Killed In Action The Firm.	Posted - 2009.04.29 21:28:00 - [5] I think what your saying is the tl,dr version is you killed 18 bs and they failure cascaded. I find this very very hard to believe tbfh
Kriz Lupin Gallente Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.04.29 22:11:00 - [6] Nice little report tbh.
Ventro69 Caldari Manson Family	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:04:00 - [7] I thought we covered this 2 weeks ago? x up if you wanna flog a dead horse
Jogvan Caldari Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:37:00 - [8] How many falcons were present in that engagement?
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.04.30 08:59:00 - [9] Foundati0n was fun in its prime. Pirates came, (or ra/solar fleet/bob (kenzoku) we endured and fought, to the enemies who mattered i believe we earned respect. But as much as you would like to believe this is not the reason FDN fell. FDN was squandering in GW. Most pilots got bored of being there, i for one started playing other games more often. This added to the tension of the failed (due to logistic and bad planning, and RA calling in favors) invasion of the RA home land. The fall started when a member of melee asked for the location of kiwi, offended, UNI members defended kiwi. Things where said that FDN leadership didnt like and in their words 'kicked UNI to quiet the bickering'. This lead to FDN leadership being questioned, and various corps leaving FDN to reform as RE-AL under a non-centralized leadership. At that point alot of the major corps responsible for FDN's grasp on GW had left, and FDN was removed as an alliance. FDN has done something none of you could do, GIS / COM-STAR, you had NOTHING to do with the fall of FDN... sorry to burst your bubble. The cause was INTERNAL, by external factors that lead to the eventual collapse of the chain of command. This is from a cap pilot from within FDN [yellow]Sig removed, only one graphic per sig please. If you would like further details please [url="http://support.eve-onl
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.04.30 08:59:00 - [10] Originally by: Jogvan How many falcons were present in that engagement? at one time we had a fight with some where around 14 falcons.... that was stupid. [yellow]Sig removed, only one graphic per sig please. If you would like further details please [url="http://support.eve-onl
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.04.30 09:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Rajere Edited by: Rajere on 29/04/2009 18:30:20 Quote: It seems that the main tactic of the [FND] fleet was to base itself on their large CAP support, and not relying on their BS fleet. Yeah that was their MO. They must have really gone down hill since the days when I used to fight them, cus they used to have Cyno's fit on all of their BSes to avoid problems like that. That explains why they disbanded I guess. Beyond what everyone thinks, not EVERY bs had a cyno fitted. If you happened to have an extra high slot and the cpu to fit it, you just added it on. FDN made up with the cap fleet (and triage carriers) what we didnt have in numbers. Most of our engagements showed us heavily outnumbered. The skill of the pilots and planning that went into the fleets (mostly the main fc's) are what made FDN what it was. At the end most of the blues never showed for fights, they just ratted and plexed as they pleased. [yellow]Sig removed, only one graphic per sig please. If you would like further details please [url="http://support.eve-onl
Crazy Tasty Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.04.30 11:59:00 - [12] Quote: FDN has done something none of you could do That one made me lol. So no one else can sit in NPC station, in NPC space, and capblob anything that moves? ------ // This is by design. When a ship jumps through a gate, it clears all aggression. // - BH ******** Pew on gate, if it gets hot, jump through and Ctrl-Q. Game mechanic endorsed by CCP.
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.04.30 13:47:00 - [13] Edited by: Zurrar on 30/04/2009 13:47:39 Originally by: Crazy Tasty Quote: FDN has done something none of you could do That one made me lol. So no one else can sit in NPC station, in NPC space, and capblob anything that moves? comin from bydi who camped stations and gates in low sec and ran when ever more than a few fdn were in system. [yellow]Sig removed, only one graphic per sig please. If you would like further details please [url="http://support.eve-onl
Alpha Dragh Caldari Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner	Posted - 2009.04.30 16:49:00 - [14] Edited by: Alpha Dragh on 30/04/2009 16:49:35 Originally by: Zurrar [...] But as much as you would like to believe this is not the reason FDN fell. [..] The fall started when a member of melee asked for the location of kiwi, offended, UNI members defended kiwi. Things where said that FDN leadership didnt like and in their words 'kicked UNI to quiet the bickering'.[...] FDN has done something none of you could do, GIS / COM-STAR, you had NOTHING to do with the fall of FDN... sorry to burst your bubble. The cause was INTERNAL, by external factors that lead to the eventual collapse of the chain of command. This is from a cap pilot from within FDN At no point in this thread or in the video did I say or suggest that GIS / C-S was responsible for Foundati0n's disbanding. That statement would be _really_ immature and totally wrong. GIS / C-S was the counterparty involved in that particular engagement with FND. According to some sources, and you yourself confirm that, the engagement and the events following it, contributed more or less to the disbanding. In an engagement there are always (at least) 2 parties. One was FND and other one was GIS / CS , which fought well and won the fight! That's all, no bubbles bursting ;) Public Relations G.I.S. Gemeinschaft Interstellarer S÷ldner - Mercs For Hire -
stop fire Minmatar Stellar Convertors	Posted - 2009.04.30 16:50:00 - [15] ich hahbe ein bratwurst in meine hose!
Alazais Caldari Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2009.04.30 17:01:00 - [16] I don't think this fight contributed much to the disbanding of FDN - if you end anything, any number of reasons/events can be advanced but by this time TSW corp were already planning on leaving GW. Regarding the fight itself, after checking out the logs we found the primary cyno (Kiwi) had over 60 seconds to drop the cyno from first call to the time he popped, which is a rather a long time to press a button. The problem though was that he didn't provide an explanation at the time, and silence can be damning in a situation like that. The secondary cyno (Time3290) had no fuel but, crucially, announced this right away on comms, which is fine. But I don't necessarily think there was any spying/sabotage at work, and even if there was, a dozen BS lost is fair game for fair effort. As for Universal Exports, who are a cool corp - the people who we had to mute in alliance chat are no longer members of Uni, and I was given a courtesy notice towards the end of their roles period that Uni were no longer wanting to be associated with their actions. So no rift there. If your interpetation was correct they wouldn't have selected me (FDN's leader) for middleman-ing a (successful) mothership sale shortly after, for example. But all that didn't impact my decision not to carry on with FDN. As Zurrar suggests, all good things.. (or in BYDI eyes, all capblobbing things.. ).
Rajere Gallente No Trademark	Posted - 2009.04.30 19:30:00 - [17] Quote: Beyond what everyone thinks, not EVERY bs had a cyno fitted. If you happened to have an extra high slot and the cpu to fit it, you just added it on. FDN made up with the cap fleet (and triage carriers) what we didnt have in numbers. rofl keep telling yourself that while you drop carriers on a 5man T1 Cruiser gang, a solo vagabond, etc. Your response to a 25man gang was to stay docked til you have 30+ BS in a 60man support fleet, 12 carriers and a Mothership before you would even think of engaging. get real The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR
Allister Feind Amarr V I R I I Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.30 20:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Zurrar Originally by: Rajere Edited by: Rajere on 29/04/2009 18:30:20 Quote: It seems that the main tactic of the [FND] fleet was to base itself on their large CAP support, and not relying on their BS fleet. Yeah that was their MO. They must have really gone down hill since the days when I used to fight them, cus they used to have Cyno's fit on all of their BSes to avoid problems like that. That explains why they disbanded I guess. Beyond what everyone thinks, not EVERY bs had a cyno fitted. If you happened to have an extra high slot and the cpu to fit it, you just added it on. FDN made up with the cap fleet (and triage carriers) what we didnt have in numbers. Most of our engagements showed us heavily outnumbered. The skill of the pilots and planning that went into the fleets (mostly the main fc's) are what made FDN what it was. At the end most of the blues never showed for fights, they just ratted and plexed as they pleased. we had fun fighting foundation but to say you only used caps when outnumberd is hilarious! you used them on EVERYTHING outnumberd or not.
Rick Rothsar Minmatar Ghosts of Ragnarok True Reign	Posted - 2009.04.30 20:37:00 - [19] foundation topics on caod are a gold mine for poorly executed trolling tbh
Warrio Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.30 20:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Alpha Dragh Blah blah ****ing blah. thanks for reading, Alpha Dragh GIS PR The reason for Foundation getting poked in the eye: NRDS. sXe
Alpha Dragh Caldari Gemeinschaft interstellarer Soeldner	Posted - 2009.04.30 20:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Warrio I like to post without understanding what the topic is about first read, then post! please try to keep this thread from useless trolling PR G.I.S. Gemeinschaft Interstellarer S÷ldner - Mercs For Hire -
Kulmid Minmatar Asshats and Alcoholics Turbo.	Posted - 2009.04.30 21:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Alpha Dragh Originally by: Warrio I like to post without understanding what the topic is about first read, then post! please try to keep this thread from useless trolling See if you can jam him. That generally works to sort out any other problem you are faced with. _________________
Zurrar Gallente Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.04.30 23:45:00 - [23] Originally by: Rajere Quote: Beyond what everyone thinks, not EVERY bs had a cyno fitted. If you happened to have an extra high slot and the cpu to fit it, you just added it on. FDN made up with the cap fleet (and triage carriers) what we didnt have in numbers. rofl keep telling yourself that while you drop carriers on a 5man T1 Cruiser gang, a solo vagabond, etc. Your response to a 25man gang was to stay docked til you have 30+ BS in a 60man support fleet, 12 carriers and a Mothership before you would even think of engaging. get real and you are? being a cap pilot i can tell you, there were times we sat in a pos doing nothing, times we dropped, and i'd say 89-92% of the time we didnt drop... or just the triage did. FDN was the KING of triage operation [yellow]Sig removed, only one graphic per sig please. If you would like further details please [url="http://support.eve-onl
airborne kiwi Amarr Ghosts of Ragnarok True Reign	Posted - 2009.05.01 02:30:00 - [24] epic video o/\o Also, Alazais, alt poasting is against the rules of CAOD. So stop posting.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.05.01 15:41:00 - [25] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 01/05/2009 15:43:32 Originally by: Zurrar Edited by: Zurrar on 30/04/2009 13:47:39 Originally by: Crazy Tasty Quote: FDN has done something none of you could do That one made me lol. So no one else can sit in NPC station, in NPC space, and capblob anything that moves? comin from bydi who camped stations and gates in low sec and ran when ever more than a few fdn were in system. FDN were not NRDS, they were just 'red-all, kill all reds'. As for bob-ra-kenzoku being pirates ... lol. FDN were good, good intel, good fc's, good organization. However, even if it means losing a ship for every kill, i'd rather be a pirate than that part of organization. As for the camping part, hell yeah, it was fun - for a while anyway. We didn't run, we prefered not to engage, since we saw your cap blob undocking from m-m or 30 man fleet 1j out every time. Asking for cruiser 1;1 only to pop cyno and have 2 moms on you didn't help much either. Anyway, RIP FDN, but it was bound to happen, the ammount of boredom that playing stile generated meant that you could only succeed as a revolving door alliance with a few trusted members in the leadership core, which eventually got bored as well. :) Originally by: Allister Feind Originally by: Zurrar Originally by: Rajere Edited by: Rajere on 29/04/2009 18:30:20 Quote: It seems that the main tactic of the [FND] fleet was to base itself on their large CAP support, and not relying on their BS fleet. Yeah that was their MO. They must have really gone down hill since the days when I used to fight them, cus they used to have Cyno's fit on all of their BSes to avoid problems like that. That explains why they disbanded I guess. Beyond what everyone thinks, not EVERY bs had a cyno fitted. If you happened to have an extra high slot and the cpu to fit it, you just added it on. FDN made up with the cap fleet (and triage carriers) what we didnt have in numbers. Most of our engagements showed us heavily outnumbered. The skill of the pilots and planning that went into the fleets (mostly the main fc's) are what made FDN what it was. At the end most of the blues never showed for fights, they just ratted and plexed as they pleased. we had fun fighting foundation but to say you only used caps when outnumberd is hilarious! you used them on EVERYTHING outnumberd or not. I can understand the trolling, but i hope you don't believe this BS. :) --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
Gokil Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.05.01 16:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Kriz Lupin Nice little report tbh. Kriz Lupin is the best Lupin. <3
Zanquis Caldari Universal Exports Cult of War	Posted - 2009.05.01 16:55:00 - [27] I think you give your battle a bit too much credit. Not to take anything away from your victory. It was a clear victory as capitalized on a mistake (weather he knew it or not) that our FC made by letting your close range battleship fleet warp in on top of our sniper fleet, and the cyno error. However FDN has won and lost many fights before typically giving it better then we take it, but sometimes stuff happens. This event was like any other to FDN including with the calling out of Kiwi as KOS when the FC was angry. At the time since Kiwi was alredy dead it was not an issue and as in most instances where somebody made a major messed up the fleet returned to base and moved on. The problem only occurred a while after the battle when PA stirred the pot again and attempted to hunt down Kiwi who was at that time a member of UNI and FDN. Events and storyline differ from there but it was that drama which was simply a catalyst for all the problems which FDN alredy had and forced them to boil over. You battle was not the cause of the alliance disbanding, in fact at the time the drama bomb started, FDN fleet commanders where forming another counter attack fleet to come back and fight you. Would you have won that engagement? I would bet no but then again I would be bias because I was FDN at this time. However the type of fight you brought to us there was the kind we where best at, and its unlikely our cyno screwup would be repeated (they are rare). Heck the big joke going around our end of space was that we created "FDN ISSUE CYNO FIT SHUTTLES" because we hotdroped so much. FDN TACTICS Your encounter with FDN using sniper ships was actually a exception rather then normality in FDN. Unlike most alliances FDN has always specialized in battleship heavy close range remote rep fleets and capital support. Most especially the use of triage carriers is something FDN was known for. This stems from the history of Gurilla warfare in GW against larger more powerful factions where we needed big brawny ships well fitted with capital support just to pull out victories against forces many times our size. Things changed as FDN gained control of GW but only slowly. In the days we fought BYDI in Bosena especially is where our most active FC's where still old school FDN and loved to drop the capitals. The only thing is FDN was now the big kid on teh block and no longer was outnumbered. Over time FDN learned to use smaller ships better and at our height we where using complex fleets with Frig squads, light support, heavy support, snipers, and sometimes close range battleships kill squads or smart bomb squads. In this time period FDN no longer dropped caps frequently, but they where always on standby incase the battle went wrong. ---------------------------------------------- EvE Personality Test
Alazais Caldari Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2009.05.01 18:36:00 - [28] It doesn't matter greatly but I think we'd have definitely won the particular fight (with virtually no losses) if one of the two designated cynos had been able to activate it on command. Since we were originally responding to a hostile sniper fleet, and you changed into short range setups for a low-sec gate fight, we needed capital rep to spider successfully. Sometimes we drop caps when not necessary but on that occasion it was - after all, we were far from home and couldn't just switch into short range setups (and you can't bubble in low sec or use tacklers that get gate aggro since the fight wasn't on the pos). Things had gone as we anticipated and indeed when a cyno was eventually obtained by someone else, we did drive the hostiles from the field, which would suggest there was no counter-drop plan. So whether through incompetence/spying/whatever, it does seem like a fight only lost due to primary cyno not pushing the button (or like secondary cyno, immediately saying he couldn't, which would have allowed us to deaggro & jump). Of course, I can't say 100% we'd have won, because for all I know, the hostiles had a counter-drop planned, but didn't deploy it because they'd killed some BS already and were happy enough with that. You never know in Eve, anything can happen - but the facts do seem to suggest it was a large slice of luck, unless you're claiming a sort of Guiding Hand role in the cyno, which seems like a lot of work for some battleship kills. P.S. I also notice you didn't even take that moon until after FDN was no longer in existence
DaiTengu Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.01 21:20:00 - [29] Came to this thread expecting delicious **** from Goonfleet Intelligence. Left disappointed.
Mystafyre Caldari Malevolent Intentions Dark Solar Empire	Posted - 2009.05.01 21:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Alazais It doesn't matter greatly but I think we'd have definitely won the particular fight (with virtually no losses) if one of the two designated cynos had been able to activate it on command. Well, the fail in that particular fight suit for you quite nicely, didn't it mr Lord Maldoror? I just wonder how much this whole theater cost... Anyhoo, FDN always had capitals ready, and trigger happy guys in the field. Far from NRDS alliance, we shot everything we wanted. If neutral was obvious noob alt it got shot. If it had hostile history (corp or alliane) we shot it. And when we really were bored we just shot everything and didn't post killmails But seriously Alazais aka Lord Maldoror aka Morium Blue aka many other characters, stop that bull**** about the cyno. Nobody is buying it and the respect you once had is now gone for good.

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