Originally by: Pallidum Treponema

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The problems with the Nag is several.

1. It has too little CPU to be an effective shield tanker. If you want to shield tank a Nag, you need a co-proc.
2. It has too few midslots to be an effective shield tanker. With a sensor booster being essential on any fleet dread, this leaves it with a four slot tank. This is not sufficient to bring it in-line with other dreads in terms of EHP.
3. It cannot armor tank without sacrificing its DPS. A four-slot armor tank plus damage control leaves it with a single slot for a damage mod.
4. It has a mixed main armament, meaning that to match other dreads, it needs to fit twice as many damage mods.
5. It's main armament is... pathetic.

To emphasise point 5, let me take current numbers:

An ArtyNag with max skills does 1149 DPS from its artillery before counting damage mods. This includes a 37.5% RoF bonus, which equals an increase of 57.5% of total DPS (1/0.625 = ~1.575)
A BeamNag using Giga Beam lasers does 1235 DPS before counting damage mods. This is WITHOUT any bonuses from the ship. Yes, that's right. Beams on a Naglfar do more DPS without bonuses than arties do WITH bonuses.

The proposed changes to bonuses and guns does increase Arty DPS by approximately 22%. This brings us to 1405 DPS with shipbonuses at maximum, finally making the ArtyNag a better option than the BeamNag. HOWEVER, if the Nag's pilot skills are only at lv4 for minmatar dreadnought (this is the skill level most pilots play at), the ArtyNag drops to 1311 DPS for its artillery. It's still more than the unbonused beams, but only 6% more.

What we still have is a dreadnought that has to choose between having comparable DPS but less tank (instant primary), or a comparable tank but less DPS than any other dread.

We still have a dread that with it's 10% DPS per level bonus for its signature weapon, still only outdamages an UNBONUSED giga beam laser by 6% for most pilots.

Yes, the proposed changes do increase the Naglfar's DPS but it still totally misses the main issue. It's a poorly designed shup from the start. Mixed weapon systems don't work. The fitting options don't work. You're stuck with a ship that forces you to pick the lesser evil rather than build a setup that is actually good.


Now, what I propose is the following:

Drop the Naglfar's highslots to four rather than five and give it 3 turret slots and 3 missile slots. This, coupled with suitable bonuses, allows it to EITHER be a missile boat OR a gunboat.

Fix arties to be comparable to other race's guns. I don't want to need 60% of damage bonuses to match a vanilla giga laser.

These two changes are all that are needed. I'm sure a lot of Naggy pilots will agree. I'd be more than happy to run a four-slot shieldtank if that means I can drop three gyros or BCUs in my lows for a sweet DPS, rather than having to waste five lowslots worth of damage mods just to keep up.


Bottom line is: The naglfar is poorly designed from the start. Swapping bonuses and grid/cpu around won't help it. Fix its weapon systems. That's the big issue with the ship.

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Originally by: Anahid Brutus

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Plz rename thread to: Official confirmation that nags will always be ****, just train into a revelation.

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• 2 gun slots 100% damage role bonus


• 5% shield boost amount instead of missile RoF


• 3/6/5


• +15% cpu

Originally by: Blane Xero

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Originally by: T2Ibis

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Originally by: ImmortalKalo

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Originally by: Yorda

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• 2 gun slots 100% damage role bonus


• 5% shield boost amount instead of missile RoF


• 3/6/5


• +15% cpu

There I did your job for you.

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FO SHO

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3rded!

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You do realise this gives it four guns to start with and thus will not happen. It will probably only ever happen at 50% inbuilt ship bonus.

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Originally by: CCP Chronotis

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