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HillAnt
Amarr HillAnt Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.03 18:21:00 -
[1]
Im not asking you for which niches you are using to make your ISK. Dear succesfull traders. How succesfull are you and why are you succesfull? Im not asking what products your trading or what precisely you do. Rather, what is it about your mindset and attitude that puts in the spot where you find the niches and oppertunities which make you succesfull? What is the foundation that puts you in the group 5% of the EVE population that holds 95% of all value? Can you give a concrete example from good old times where 95% would have missed a great oppertunity that stood out to you or you allowed to come to you? --- HillAnt corp website for entrepeneurs |
Lord Zarcam
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2009.05.03 18:30:00 -
[2]
Having real life business experience really helps. Trading is not for everyone and you can quickly loose everything you have invested. Be willing to take risks, but only doing so after the proper research.
In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream! |
Stardust CEO
Stardust Manufacturing
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Posted - 2009.05.03 18:32:00 -
[3]
It's one part paying attention, one part thinking ahead, and one part being prepared to take advantage of an opportunity when it comes along.
Many people never notice when 1600mm tungsten plates rise and fall between 2.5m and 3.5m. Even if they see it, how many of them know if the price is doing the same thing in other regions?
Many people didn't look ahead and realize that the missile changes (specifically sig radius changes) were going to make target painters' prices rise.
On top of those, there's being prepared. Most people don't have the isk or the nerve to move on an opportunity before it's too late/without hesitating.
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Corpia Sin
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Posted - 2009.05.03 18:40:00 -
[4]
patience, planning, preparedness
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Selma Body
Amarr Ad Astra Vexillum Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.03 19:37:00 -
[5]
You see an item that has normal price of 15 mil.
Buy orders are 10mil - your on top.
Someone comes along and smacks 14mil buy order.
Lemmings follow.
Lemmings orders are filled within a day.
You continue to buy at 10 mil and resell to Lemmings when they put up 15 mil order again. Your on top again and Lemmings got their buy orders filled.
What makes a good trader is not to be an idiot and make that 14 mil buy order. Some will argue that person was trying to manipulate market - but most people trying to do that are amateurs and they leave market fast after loosing couple of hundred mils.
Know when to quit the Lemming race and lower your buyorder price to what seems like a good price. Wait for a few days and see if price will go down due to other buy orders filling. If not - quit that item and look somewhere else. Come back in week or so.
Most people will up prices on items in thousands or sometime millions - difference is profit made. Sell order priced change fastly and you could be at a loss. Its more important to buy low then to sell high. Because if you buy at lowest possible price - you will ensure you still make profit if price crashes.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2009.05.03 19:56:00 -
[6]
Understanding what buy low, sell high means. It's actually far more complicated than most realize to do correctly.
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Roger Kiyosaki
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Posted - 2009.05.05 11:34:00 -
[7]
The ability to use a calculator and actually using it.
That's it. The rest is meta game.
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Trebor Locke
Gallente Round Table Enterprises Leather Rose Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.05 11:50:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Trebor Locke on 05/05/2009 11:51:19 Instinct is the one true difference between a good trader and a bad trader. Why? Because people with trade instinct can recognize trade patterns/strategies and will be more willing to take a risk with their money on a split second notice because of that knowledge. You can have all your calculations and numbers worked out but, in the end, if you don't seize the day quick enough (or know when to stop), you wont make those riches and will lose out big.
Experience only makes that instinct more finely tuned. -------------- CEO of Round Table Enterprises Chairman of the Leather Rose Syndicate
Your friendly economic management and trade orginization. |
Confuzer
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.05.05 12:06:00 -
[9]
Volume, size, persistance, patience, memory, reading patch notes, diversification, ignore tendency to spent and invest, being greedy, knows when to stop, insight in socialogical market trents, being devious, being evil and finally, being me!
[hysterical laugh]*hahahahahahha*[/hysterical laugh] ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Mystafyre
Caldari Malevolent Intentions Dark Solar Empire
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Posted - 2009.05.05 12:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: HillAnt Im not asking you for which niches you are using to make your ISK. Dear succesfull traders. How succesfull are you and why are you succesfull? Im not asking what products your trading or what precisely you do. Rather, what is it about your mindset and attitude that puts in the spot where you find the niches and oppertunities which make you succesfull? What is the foundation that puts you in the group 5% of the EVE population that holds 95% of all value? Can you give a concrete example from good old times where 95% would have missed a great oppertunity that stood out to you or you allowed to come to you?
Patience.
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Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.05.05 12:38:00 -
[11]
Location trader -> Buys stuff where its low and sells where its high -> bad trader
Time trader -> Buys stuff when its low and sells when its high -> good trader
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Trebor Locke
Gallente Round Table Enterprises Leather Rose Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.05 12:58:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Trebor Locke on 05/05/2009 12:59:01
Originally by: Ms Delerium Location trader -> Buys stuff where its low and sells where its high -> bad trader
Time trader -> Buys stuff when its low and sells when its high -> good trader
This here, is a very bad statement as you can mix location and time to generate lots of money as a trader. It again falls to recognizing patterns. The location trader is more of an opportunist sort of mind-set but it still works and generates lots of ISK when done properly. I remember location trading a few hounds I had noticed going for very cheap on the market. Made somewhere around 300-350% profit just by moving them 4 jumps out to another region where I already knew they were selling for higher at higher volume.
Let me put it like this. Selling goods is all about LOCATION. If it's not at a good location, it simply wont sell. Hence why trade hubs develop? :-D (ECON 101) -------------- CEO of Round Table Enterprises Chairman of the Leather Rose Syndicate
Your friendly economic management and trade orginization. |
Roger Kiyosaki
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Posted - 2009.05.05 13:04:00 -
[13]
This thread is a perfect showpiece to demonstrate how MD citizens like to over analyze and complicate even the most simple matters.
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Confuzer
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.05.05 15:04:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ms Delerium Location trader -> Buys stuff where its low and sells where its high -> bad trader
Time trader -> Buys stuff when its low and sells when its high -> good trader
If you don't do both -> bad trader.
Especially when a large sum is invested in time, and it takes a year for the prices to go up ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Dr Keane
Black Moon Mining
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Posted - 2009.05.05 15:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki This thread is a perfect showpiece to demonstrate how MD citizens like to over analyze and complicate even the most simple matters.
This^
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Belkadan
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Posted - 2009.05.05 17:00:00 -
[16]
In my opinion it's patience. Don't be afraid to take your time. People here will tell you that you have to act quickly on any market changes. You don't. The market graph shows prices climbing and falling all the time. If you miss one opportunity, there'll likely be more in the future. Sometimes it takes days, sometimes it takes weeks, and often it takes months. What I do is simple, I browse the markets when I feel like it, and when I see something in a slump where they're being sold for cheaper than usual, I buy them. I sit on them for a while till the price climbs (often takes weeks), and when the margin rises enough for me to make a somewhat decent profit I sell.
Don't just sit in one region either, look for the buy orders in other regions, if you notice a decent desrepency between the prices of an item, trek out there and set up a sell/buy order.
I am by no means an expert marketeer, but I've made enough to lose multiple >cruiser sized ships a week. I'm in and out of trading all the time, splitting my time between PvPing, missioning, and market. Eve offers plenty of ways to make isk, don't restrict yourself to just one area without trying others.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2009.05.05 18:40:00 -
[17]
Don't buy stuff you don't intend to sell for a profit.
Sounds simple, but I'm one of the folks that actually spends their hard earned isk, really successful traders don't spend their isk, they invest it further.
Really know the market of the items you trade in, this let's you recognize crashes in their early stages. You don't want to buy low and find out that you'll have to sell even lower.
Understand that persistence and controlling the market go hand in hand. If your consistently the highest buyer and lowest seller, competitors have no opportunity to profit. Leading to frustration and often those traders leave your market. Trying this in Jita is going to be a full time job, so do this elsewhere...
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Ikserak tai
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Posted - 2009.05.05 19:30:00 -
[18]
Not a rabid trader, but I can say that I always keep my eye out for a good deal.
As you fit your ships and take a hard look at contracts for faction mods, you get a feel for what the item is selling for around Eve. The contracts section lets you look at all regions, quite different than the market where you need to be in that region to view the market in real time. (Eve-Central somewhat circumvents that, though).
Contracts that have 13+ days left on them indicate they are new and may hold some promise. I saw one with 3 CN Cruise Launchers for 90m. I checked the Forge and Citadel (the prime Caldari mission runner areas) and the launchers were going for no less than 40m.
Snatched up the launchers, went to Amarr and resold them at 44m ea (plus another I got for 39m) and ended up with roughly 46m in profit after expenses.
I had mined a level II mission for 6 hours a day earlier for 29m in minerals. The Cruise Launcher re-sale took about 10 minutes.
If you mission a lot and resell the loot, you are inevitably going to absorb a lot of information about prices and markets. The more exposure you get, the better trader you'll become.
YOU'VE NEVER ROCKED 'TIL YOU'VE UNDOCKED. |
Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
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Posted - 2009.05.05 19:51:00 -
[19]
Interesting that you bring forth the mindset question: that's a good starting point.
I'll simply say this - every market I trade in is the result of my having at one point or another needed to buy or sell the item (ship equipment or mission loot), saying "That's ridiculous" looking at the apparent profit margin, and experimenting with selling that item or its cousins. Some of these ventures have flopped horribly, and have taught me many lessons. Others have bloomed beyond my most optimistic expectations.
Commit to continually learning, experiment in new ventures, and never put all your eggs in one basket.
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Taelech
Caldari Caldari Design and Cryogenics
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Posted - 2009.05.05 21:15:00 -
[20]
The ability to gain the trust of an enemy alliance or corp is tantamount. Beyond that, charisma and the ability to follow through on a well thought out plan are essentials to becoming a successful traitor.
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Belkadan
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Posted - 2009.05.06 12:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Taelech The ability to gain the trust of an enemy alliance or corp is tantamount. Beyond that, charisma and the ability to follow through on a well thought out plan are essentials to becoming a successful traitor.
I giggled.
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Lui Kai
Logistics Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.05.06 12:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Dr Keane
Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki This thread is a perfect showpiece to demonstrate how MD citizens like to over analyze and complicate even the most simple matters.
This^
x2 ---------------- Ambulation Answers
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Sky Lunartakker
FSK23
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Posted - 2009.05.06 16:47:00 -
[23]
I just buy much things in masses very cheep. Maybe some day one of those will be ...good.
I remember I had 470k Armor Plates (for Rigs) - that was awesome :)
So I¦m more broker than trader I guess.
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Jotobar
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Posted - 2009.05.07 13:25:00 -
[24]
time to update orders, a bit of brains to predict how market moves will play out and how market will change, a bit luck that said predictions work in reality, a bit of book keeping/analyzing.
Most of all though, the ability to portray yourself as god on the MD forums if you have any success with the above :)
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Isaac Swift
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Posted - 2009.05.07 17:25:00 -
[25]
Don't know if there's anything I can add that others haven't. I'll try my hand at it, though.
When you're a trader, you're a businessman. That means that you need to get into a businessman's mindset. In eve, there is tremendous flexibility in how you can trade. Follow the money. Find a way to keep track of your profits, and always be looking to improve. Always reinvest your isk, but make sure you're smart about it. Do your research, I can't stress that one enough. Finding out how to do proper research is half the battle, and each item type and style of trading requires a different method of research. Find one that works, then find a way to make it better. Find out how much time you are willing to invest into trading every day, and then constantly strive to maximize the isk you make in that time. Not everyone is willing to update 900+ orders, but few people actually need to. There are many ways to skin a cat. Finally, Never give away anything to anybody. There is a reason that MD is one of the most evasive and sarcastic boards in eve: we're all traders
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Turiel Demon
Minmatar Shadow Reapers
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Posted - 2009.05.07 17:52:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Confuzer Volume, size, persistance, patience, memory, reading patch notes, diversification, ignore tendency to spent and invest, being greedy, knows when to stop, insight in socialogical market trents, being devious, being evil and finally, being me!
[hysterical laugh]*hahahahahahha*[/hysterical laugh]
The single most important thing is patience, and a willingness to spend a lot of time analyzing your market before you begin trading.
All the other things above can be a gig help also though
Also, it has come to my attention that I'm really in need of a proper signature. |
glas mir
Reaction Scientific
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Posted - 2009.05.07 22:28:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Isaac Swift Never give away anything to anybody. There is a reason that MD is one of the most evasive and sarcastic boards in eve: we're all traders
damn the misinformation threads!
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PublicRelations Kwint
Lothian Quay Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.07 22:43:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shadarle Understanding what buy low, sell high means. It's actually far more complicated than most realize to do correctly.
You're quite right. Buying low and selling high is a very simple principle but when applied to a complex system the results are anything but. Even in the last few months I've learned new tricks when it comes to commodity trading and I expect I'll still be picking up on subtle but profitable little nuances years from now and understanding those little blips may not get you big profits but it will get you little profits when your competitor's revenue has fallen flat and that is what makes a good trader.
Any fool can see the writing on the wall and buy something when it's low and resell it when it's high but knowing how to turn a profit off all the gray little bumps in between is what separates a good trader from an average one.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Pang Grohl
Gallente Sudo Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.07 23:41:00 -
[29]
Be consistent. That more than anything else will get you into that 5%. Any idiot can sell something for more than they paid for it at least once. The trick comes in doing it consistently. To do a task consistently, you have to get some reward from it. The reward doesn't necessarily need to be money.
If you want to trade just to make money to pay for something else, remember to pay your self, and do so consistently.
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