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Sir Elliot
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Posted - 2009.05.04 02:35:00 -
[1]
So, I pulled the contract history of some of the macro-bots that Chribba unveiled and that CCP refuses to enforce the EULA on, and some of them have pulled down insane amounts of ISK.
Are these folks actually making that much scamming, or are they simply laundering dirty ISK?
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Johli
Caldari
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.04 02:37:00 -
[2]
No, some people are just stupid.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.04 02:38:00 -
[3]
I personally believe that, while there ARE stupid people in this game, stupid people don't usually have insane amounts of isk. Stupidity usually excludes the acquiring of wealth, unless your famous or inherit it (or buy it, as in a game).
So I'm starting to believe that the jita bots are little more than ways to cover up the transfer of funds between characters and accounts. IM some isk seller, he tells you to make a character and spam in Jita, he'll buy your 1mil Amarr Hardener for 1 bil.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Alexandra Knight
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.04 02:38:00 -
[4]
Speaking as someone who nabbed 1.6bill in 2 and a half days, i find it entirely believable people are falling for it.
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Asuka Smith
Gallente
StarHunt
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Posted - 2009.05.04 02:46:00 -
[5]
I have a feeling it is a little of both. The macro-bots are probably legitimate but I would not be surprised if some of those contracts are for laundering.
Best way to tell would be if the contract was accepted same day, as all the sites promise 24hr delivery of ISK.
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Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.04 03:16:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Sir Elliot
So, I pulled the contract history of some of the macro-bots that Chribba unveiled and that CCP refuses to enforce the EULA on, and some of them have pulled down insane amounts of ISK.
Are these folks actually making that much scamming, or are they simply laundering dirty ISK?
this isn't the IRS
you cannot launder ISK.
===
This Space For Lease or Sale. |
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.04 03:17:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bullageddon
Originally by: Sir Elliot
So, I pulled the contract history of some of the macro-bots that Chribba unveiled and that CCP refuses to enforce the EULA on, and some of them have pulled down insane amounts of ISK.
Are these folks actually making that much scamming, or are they simply laundering dirty ISK?
this isn't the IRS
you cannot launder ISK.
What you CAN do is hide illegitimate isk transactions through fake 'scams'.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.05.04 03:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bullageddon
Originally by: Sir Elliot
So, I pulled the contract history of some of the macro-bots that Chribba unveiled and that CCP refuses to enforce the EULA on, and some of them have pulled down insane amounts of ISK.
Are these folks actually making that much scamming, or are they simply laundering dirty ISK?
this isn't the IRS
you cannot launder ISK.
noob
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Cassius Coriolis
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Posted - 2009.05.04 03:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bullageddon
Originally by: Sir Elliot
So, I pulled the contract history of some of the macro-bots that Chribba unveiled and that CCP refuses to enforce the EULA on, and some of them have pulled down insane amounts of ISK.
Are these folks actually making that much scamming, or are they simply laundering dirty ISK?
this isn't the IRS
you cannot launder ISK.
I believe what he means is selling ISK.
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Sir Elliot
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Posted - 2009.05.04 16:31:00 -
[10]
This is indeed what I mean.
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
I personally believe that, while there ARE stupid people in this game, stupid people don't usually have insane amounts of isk. Stupidity usually excludes the acquiring of wealth, unless your famous or inherit it (or buy it, as in a game).
So I'm starting to believe that the jita bots are little more than ways to cover up the transfer of funds between characters and accounts. IM some isk seller, he tells you to make a character and spam in Jita, he'll buy your 1mil Amarr Hardener for 1 bil.
This
Hate Farmers? Click Here |
big fluf
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:22:00 -
[12]
ahhh.. the fake scamm - must admit, I didn't see that one comeing.
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voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:42:00 -
[13]
Originally by: big fluf
ahhh.. the fake scamm - must admit, I didn't see that one comeing.
One way you can tell is if the same person gets scammed multiple times with the same scam. If you fall victim to a scam for 400m ISK, I somehow doubt you're going to fall for it from the same exact person a day later. And I also doubt you'll fall for the same type os scam 8-10 times over a week period to the tune of 8-9 billion ISK.
Hate Farmers? Click Here |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.05.04 17:50:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Tippia on 04/05/2009 17:51:57
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
I personally believe that, while there ARE stupid people in this game, stupid people don't usually have insane amounts of isk. Stupidity usually excludes the acquiring of wealth, unless your famous or inherit it (or buy it, as in a game).
Well, then the scam spam will solve itself…
ISK buyer gets lots of money.
ISK buyer gets flagged as such.
Scammer gets flagged as owning tainted ISK.
Seller, buyer/scammer gets spanked… 
Given how obvious and easy to track these transactions are, it's a pretty poor cover if that's what they're attempting.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Caelum Mortuos
Gallente
Zero G Research and Development
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Posted - 2009.05.04 18:07:00 -
[15]
CCP are actually using them as isk sinks, these faceless alts are simply piling isk up in their wallets, thus removing it from the game.
:tinfoil:
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.04 19:31:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Caelum Mortuos
CCP are actually using them as isk sinks, these faceless alts are simply piling isk up in their wallets, thus removing it from the game.
:tinfoil:
WTS; Clue on what an isk sink is, and what "Removing isk from the game" requires.
______________________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
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Sir Elliot
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Posted - 2009.05.04 19:32:00 -
[17]
I do find CCP's near total unwillingness to address these issues in a forthright and direct fashion very troubling.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.05.04 20:06:00 -
[18]
A part of me can only feel bad for a narrow spectrum of the Eve community who may speak only languages that are not native to Eve. I do know of 1 of these players who has been playing this game by him self for the last 3 years. I can not communicate with him, although I have tried. I think this person is Japanese. I believe this type of person would be able to gain the money to buy something and the language barrier could cause them to fall victim. This is the sad part of the scams.
I do however have a hard time to stop laughing when someone drunk, stoned or tired buys a "Sisters SCAM probe launcher" (back in the day sisters scan probe launchers existed).
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Kulmid
Asshats and Alcoholics
Turbo.
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Posted - 2009.05.04 20:19:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Caelum Mortuos
CCP are actually using them as isk sinks, these faceless alts are simply piling isk up in their wallets, thus removing it from the game.
:tinfoil:
WTS; Clue on what an isk sink is, and what "Removing isk from the game" requires.
WTS English comprehension and reasoning.
If they pile ISK up in their and never put it back into the economy, they have essentially removed it from the game. While it is not technically removed from the game, it is being taken out of the active economy, which is close enough to count.
If I quit the game right and never reactivated my account, for all intents and purposes, they ISK I posses is removed from the game. This is pretty much the same thing.
Again, before you try to troll me still. I will repeat, I do realize the ISK is not actually removed from the game. But for the purposes of this discussion, it can be treated as such.
_________________
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stupidity
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Posted - 2009.05.04 20:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Stupidity usually excludes the acquiring of wealth, unless your famous or inherit it (or buy it, as in a game).
Cofirmed..I am broke.
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Lobster Man
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2009.05.04 20:25:00 -
[21]
I don't know exactly how widespread it is, but someone (the farmers I would suspect) are starting to monopolize the implants market in jita by setting up their autobid market bots and I really, really wish CCP would do something about it 
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KaarBaak
Minmatar
Team Squirrel
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Posted - 2009.05.04 20:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kulmid
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: Caelum Mortuos
CCP are actually using them as isk sinks, these faceless alts are simply piling isk up in their wallets, thus removing it from the game.
:tinfoil:
WTS; Clue on what an isk sink is, and what "Removing isk from the game" requires.
WTS English comprehension and reasoning.
If they pile ISK up in their and never put it back into the economy, they have essentially removed it from the game. While it is not technically removed from the game, it is being taken out of the active economy, which is close enough to count.
If I quit the game right and never reactivated my account, for all intents and purposes, they ISK I posses is removed from the game. This is pretty much the same thing.
Again, before you try to troll me still. I will repeat, I do realize the ISK is not actually removed from the game. But for the purposes of this discussion, it can be treated as such.
To elaborate: "Money" sinks are devices that developers put into games to draw money out of the economy to control "mudflation
I've never deleted a pilot from an account, but I could see the above explanation working and then simply deleting the pilot. Money goes <poof>
KB
KB |
Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.04 20:44:00 -
[23]
check contract history and see the character age etc of all the pilots that "fell for the 999 scams" to see if they look like legit players. if the majority are like 1 day old alts then chances are there is a major racket going on.
~~~~~
Remember, EVE is a sandbox and other MMOs are rock gardens.
Pretty rocks can be collected, but collecting sand is pointless.
Instead build a sandcastle and keep it from being knocked down. |
Armoured C
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.04 22:11:00 -
[24]
it the cartel they are paying protection money for the grannies living on caldari prime.
next they will be braking your knee caps in ambulation to get there protection money
if you buy eve in a box from my game store i will give you isk (GAME , parkgate rotherham)
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Mr Sean
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Posted - 2009.05.04 22:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sig Sour
I do however have a hard time to stop laughing when someone drunk, stoned or tired buys a "Sisters SCAM probe launcher" (back in the day sisters scan probe launchers existed).
lmao @ sisters scam probe launcher
btw, unless something's changed in the last 8 hours, sisters scan probe launchers still exist :P Was just using one!
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ISHKUR MASTER
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.04 22:56:00 -
[26]
I too believe this is a isk selling method, since CCP got clever with isk sellers filtering in chat and made it much harder to get the add in local, they came up with this scheme, and as the OP said, arrangements can be made.
Sure some of us drunk folk misread and get scammed, the intended isk (buyer)reciever still gets their arranged isk and the isk seller in the case where it was a real player that fell for the local scam, doesn't depart with his isk and gets to sell it all over again.
These isk/scam adds and the method are too widespread, eve wide to be just some of us players interfering with the quality of game others play - they are more in the levels of the isk adds we used to get when CCP was having a hard time filtering them.
Sure some players get on the money train and decide to copy the scams to see if it is winsauce, but lets face it, unless you do have a bot, sitting in local copy/pasting text over and over and over, is tiresome, uninspiring and there is a point where they would choose to do better things with their time.
10 Million isk the OP is right, CCP when you prove it, evemail me to send it to him (yes we know you'll read this)
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Jer Bu
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Posted - 2009.05.05 01:01:00 -
[27]
Wow, I actually never thought of this, but in reality the OP makes perfect sense.
The scam is just a scam to cover up the actual agreed upon isk exchange... That is insane, and yet very likely.
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Spurty
Caldari
Summer Summer Summer Fun
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Posted - 2009.05.05 01:02:00 -
[28]
Selling TinFoil hats for 1mill isk!
999,999.999 get yours before they run out!
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Thus I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
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mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.05 02:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
So I'm starting to believe that the jita bots are little more than ways to cover up the transfer of funds between characters and accounts. IM some isk seller, he tells you to make a character and spam in Jita, he'll buy your 1mil Amarr Hardener for 1 bil.
Wow, this is genius... and a real problem if it's true.
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EpicFailTroll
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Posted - 2009.05.05 03:46:00 -
[30]
Originally by: mechtech
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
So I'm starting to believe that the jita bots are little more than ways to cover up the transfer of funds between characters and accounts. IM some isk seller, he tells you to make a character and spam in Jita, he'll buy your 1mil Amarr Hardener for 1 bil.
Wow, this is genius... and a real problem if it's true.
EFT says: remove alts and allow one IP per account, one account per IP, at a time. Alts are an abomination in such a game.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.05.05 03:49:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 05/05/2009 03:51:10
Let me see... if I post a Raven on contract as a "Raven Navy Issue" or 280M ISK, and it sells in 15 seconds flat, don't you think I'd keep doing that until I stopped moving overpriced product off my shelves?
The buyer is clearly a fool and doesn't deserve the money they have!
Now if I was doing a roaring trade in rebadged Ravens, don't you think I'd try something else? Flog it off as a Golem perhaps, or look at selling Small Shield Booster I as a Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster.
Does that make me an ISK launderer, or merely a dodgey second hand spaceship salesman?
Originally by: EpicFailTroll
remove alts and allow one IP per account, one account per IP, at a time. Alts are an abomination in such a game.
I agree with the sentiment, but it's offtopic in a discussion about "ISK laundering through dodgey contracts."
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.05.05 05:03:00 -
[32]
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
I personally believe that, while there ARE stupid people in this game, stupid people don't usually have insane amounts of isk. Stupidity usually excludes the acquiring of wealth, unless your famous or inherit it (or buy it, as in a game).
So I'm starting to believe that the jita bots are little more than ways to cover up the transfer of funds between characters and accounts. IM some isk seller, he tells you to make a character and spam in Jita, he'll buy your 1mil Amarr Hardener for 1 bil.
This
if this is indeed how its done, and im sure its pretty common that it is, then way to **** the system, a scam scam, awesome haha
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.05.05 05:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: EpicFailTroll
EFT says: remove alts and allow one IP per account, one account per IP, at a time. Alts are an abomination in such a game.
Won't work. In fact, can't work.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.05.05 07:55:00 -
[34]
This would be p. clever, however it requires the buyer of isk to go through some contracting procedures that he probably would think is too much effort.
Besides, the same isk sellers would be using the same characters and get caught that way. IE the same person would be getting "scammed" 20+ times. However, if you check contracts history, that is not what is happening. Different people are getting scammed.
Or hell, maybe the isk sellers and the north koreans are working together to control our minds by spamming jita local.
Originally by: CCP Whisper
So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
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Shintai
Gallente
Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.05.05 11:27:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Shintai on 05/05/2009 11:27:55
Originally by: Vaal Erit
This would be p. clever, however it requires the buyer of isk to go through some contracting procedures that he probably would think is too much effort.
Besides, the same isk sellers would be using the same characters and get caught that way. IE the same person would be getting "scammed" 20+ times. However, if you check contracts history, that is not what is happening. Different people are getting scammed.
Or hell, maybe the isk sellers and the north koreans are working together to control our minds by spamming jita local.
If you check their history. Scammers get scammed and same things bought forth and back. Its laundry for sure. And most likely RMT related.
And all the high volume for billions of isks each way for single people is suppious at best.
--------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
King Rothgar
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.05.05 11:45:00 -
[36]
Hmm, I never thought of that but I can certainly see that happening. Another option for isk laundering would be market buy/sell orders set at absurd prices that no one would buy or even see if using market normally. Example would be placing a shuttle for sale in jita for 10B isk. If someone actually bought that, I guarantee they were paid real world money to do so.
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Frenzei
Gallente
Fortuna inc.
Leather Rose Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.05 12:30:00 -
[37]
Originally by: King Rothgar
Hmm, I never thought of that but I can certainly see that happening. Another option for isk laundering would be market buy/sell orders set at absurd prices that no one would buy or even see if using market normally. Example would be placing a shuttle for sale in jita for 10B isk. If someone actually bought that, I guarantee they were paid real world money to do so.
Expecting that there is shuttle for sale in that station for less, THAT person will get the money. That's the way a brokered market works.
Lone Wolf |
Sir Elliot
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Posted - 2009.05.05 14:56:00 -
[38]
I think the most frustrating part about this is CCP's absolute refusal to enforcing their own EULA against obvious bot activity.
C/D?
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A Pacifist
Republic University
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Posted - 2009.05.06 12:30:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 05/05/2009 03:51:10
Let me see... if I post a Raven on contract as a "Raven Navy Issue" or 280M ISK, and it sells in 15 seconds flat, don't you think I'd keep doing that until I stopped moving overpriced product off my shelves?
The buyer is clearly a fool and doesn't deserve the money they have!
Now if I was doing a roaring trade in rebadged Ravens, don't you think I'd try something else? Flog it off as a Golem perhaps, or look at selling Small Shield Booster I as a Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster.
Does that make me an ISK launderer, or merely a dodgey second hand spaceship salesman?
Originally by: EpicFailTroll
remove alts and allow one IP per account, one account per IP, at a time. Alts are an abomination in such a game.
I agree with the sentiment, but it's offtopic in a discussion about "ISK laundering through dodgey contracts."
A good point. I've spent a couple hours looking through contract histories of scammers, and I think what people have to look at instead is the contract histories of people that are getting scammed. I've found a couple people that will have several months of active contract histories, only to lose several billion in a period of minutes, in some cases to multiple contracts from the same scammer. It leads me to believe that at least some "scammers" are either isk seller distribution accounts, or the alts of people that are buying isk. |
Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar
Empire Mining and Trade
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Posted - 2009.05.06 14:43:00 -
[40]
Should be easy enough to test, just go buy some isk (with a secure CC) and then see what happens. I also find it interesting Chribba's eve search site is advertising the sale of isk. CCP should get google ads to remove the sale of their property.
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Andrest Disch
Amarr
Letiferi Praedones
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Posted - 2009.05.06 15:26:00 -
[41]
Originally by: EpicFailTroll
EFT says: remove alts and allow one IP per account, one account per IP, at a time. Alts are an abomination in such a game.
Yes, i'm sure all those people that find actively mining ice fun will love you for this.
-silence-
oh, |
Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr
Can't Decide
Balance of Judgment
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Posted - 2009.05.06 15:36:00 -
[42]
actually they use the eve-bank as a laundry service. put money in, get a code, take money out.
and as far as CCP logs go, its not a direct transfer...so its very hard to trace.
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Vidi Angelus
Caldari
Crystal Dynamics
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.05.06 15:37:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: EpicFailTroll
EFT says: remove alts and allow one IP per account, one account per IP, at a time. Alts are an abomination in such a game.
Won't work. In fact, can't work.
Exactly, Proxies make the argument pure fail.
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Glamaz Cruciatia
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Posted - 2009.05.09 14:10:00 -
[44]
spam again it seems
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE
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Chucky
HEAVEN'S DEATH DEALER'S
V.I.R.A.L.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:02:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Vidi Angelus
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: EpicFailTroll
EFT says: remove alts and allow one IP per account, one account per IP, at a time. Alts are an abomination in such a game.
Won't work. In fact, can't work.
Exactly, Proxies make the argument pure fail.
Train Troll detection to lvl 1, or read the posters name slowly
... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture. |
Concorduck
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:11:00 -
[46]
CCP knows
Stop making tinfoil hats
-----------------------------------------
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
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Weight What
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:41:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Concorduck
CCP knows
Stop making tinfoil hats
Originally by: Magic Dragonrider Tao Ball
Mandarins are slow to act. A butterfly dances through a field of poppies. Seize the potentiality.
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Annonymous, trading as "Weight What". |
Draeca
Tharri and Co.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:42:00 -
[48]
I find the amounts of tinfoilhattery in this thread pleasing.
Carry on.
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Speaker Dead
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Posted - 2009.05.09 21:28:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Speaker Dead on 09/05/2009 21:28:58
Actually your not taking the scam far enough. If they were really clever, the ISK Sellers would use a number of accounts, including hacked ones.
And wouldn't they spread the word in game that this works? 99% of the hub spam now is all based on the non-rounded contract scam, targeting which spammer's are actually isk buyers, and which are legit scams could become a daunting task if you get enough people on for the ride....
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