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Vex Style	Posted - 2009.05.04 04:12:00 - [1] So i come back to find out the thing i enjoyed most by myself pvping in null has been nerf ****d. No longer can you stand a chance vs ANY ship class. Why not just take em out of the game and finish the blow CCP?
Micia Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.05.04 04:14:00 - [2] Originally by: Vex Style No longer can you stand a chance vs ANY ship class. So very, very wrong. Have you actually flown one, since the changes? If so... what was your experience?
Petra Katell Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.05.04 04:14:00 - [3] Actually it's a HUGE boost. SB's are finally not worthless. Train torp skills. Though I think letting them retain the use of cruise is a fair argument.
Vex Style	Posted - 2009.05.04 04:28:00 - [4] Originally by: Micia Originally by: Vex Style No longer can you stand a chance vs ANY ship class. So very, very wrong. Have you actually flown one, since the changes? If so... what was your experience? GL poping frig class ships moving, Cant break a BS class tank for **** same goes for BC class ships im "guessing", have to be within 50KM. Only good thing is you get to use covop stealth.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.05.04 04:32:00 - [5] Originally by: Vex Style Originally by: Micia Originally by: Vex Style No longer can you stand a chance vs ANY ship class. So very, very wrong. Have you actually flown one, since the changes? If so... what was your experience? GL poping frig class ships moving, Cant break a BS class tank for **** same goes for BC class ships im "guessing", have to be within 50KM. Only good thing is you get to use covop stealth. Old Bomber could instapop stationary frigates without difficulty, and the obvious trend in CCP's combat developments is a movement away from instapopping. As for bombers being able to break a battleship tank with the new torp setup... I mean, it's going to die solo against a BS very fast. How much DPS do you want torp bombers to do?
Verx Interis Amarr Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.05.04 05:21:00 - [6] Edited by: Verx Interis on 04/05/2009 05:21:04 Stealth bombers are great for many things. Killing fighters en masse included ---- Logins required for this post: 516912
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.05.04 05:23:00 - [7] have you tried flying with other people? 2 of them do the same dps as a raven, don'tchaknow --
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.05.04 05:23:00 - [8] Originally by: Verx Interis Edited by: Verx Interis on 04/05/2009 05:21:04 Stealth bombers are great for many things. Killing fighters en masse included i'll give you that you guys' SB fittings were superior to most your other ships classes --
Verx Interis Amarr Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.05.04 05:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Faife Originally by: Verx Interis Edited by: Verx Interis on 04/05/2009 05:21:04 Stealth bombers are great for many things. Killing fighters en masse included i'll give you that you guys' SB fittings were superior to most your other ships classes You do know CAOD is that way --> Right? ---- Logins required for this post: 106574
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.05.04 05:53:00 - [10] Originally by: Vex Style Originally by: Micia Originally by: Vex Style No longer can you stand a chance vs ANY ship class. So very, very wrong. Have you actually flown one, since the changes? If so... what was your experience? GL poping frig class ships moving, Cant break a BS class tank for **** same goes for BC class ships im "guessing", have to be within 50KM. Only good thing is you get to use covop stealth. 1: Correct, frigs are now something for the bomber to avoid. 2: You couldn't break a BS tank solo in the old SB either, but you can come a heck of a lot closer to it now. With max skills and an average fit you deliver in the neighborhood of 5000 damage per salvo, and have a ROF of around 8 or 9 seconds. 3: Your guess would be incorrect unless you have sub par skills, or refuse to drop 30mil on a couple of rigs. Max range with Javelins is about 130km. Of course you could use the increased cpu and powergrid to put on better EW if you prefer to fight at shorter ranges. Fly it, rethink your fittings and tactics, fly it again, and then we can discuss it. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.05.04 06:05:00 - [11] I disagree, Sensor Boosters are still quite useful. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Julius Rigel House Rigel	Posted - 2009.05.04 06:48:00 - [12] I agree it's completely outrageous that SB has scripts now! I mean, I wanted to be restricted, but now with all this freedom to choose either locking time or targeting range I'm completely confused! Wait, did you mean smartbombs?
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.04 07:06:00 - [13] Confirming that being able to use a covops cloak is a "nerf". hay CCP, my cerb is WAY overpowered! Please "nerf" it like that as well. I ask this not for myself but for the good of the game. PS Also please "nerf" it by increasing the PG and CPU.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.05.04 07:36:00 - [14] Originally by: Malcanis Confirming that being able to use a covops cloak is a "nerf". hay CCP, my cerb is WAY overpowered! Please "nerf" it like that as well. I ask this not for myself but for the good of the game. PS Also please "nerf" it by increasing the PG and CPU. ^^ This. Please nerf my Ishtar and Ishkur in the same way. They certainly don't need it, but it would be really really nice… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ms Reactance	Posted - 2009.05.04 07:39:00 - [15] Originally by: Wet Ferret I disagree, Sensor Boosters are still quite useful. This thead isn't about SmartBombs?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.05.04 08:25:00 - [16] Edited by: Akita T on 04/05/2009 08:27:06 The classical "bomber" archetype is "afraid of fighters, slow, fragile, packs a huge punch against large targets". At max skills and proper implants, you can deal 681 _raw_ DPS at nearly 54km with RAGE torps. Or, alternatively, 479 raw DPS at nearly 91 km with Javelin torps. And that's before rigs. You have a covops cloak, so you can pick when and where to engage. You target immediately after decloak, with no delays, and you have frigate-sized scan resolution and signature. Just have some other ship do the tackling (a recon pair, preferably) and add target painting to all ships (or better, have a specialised painter ship). Battleships should be melting like butter. Seriously, what else do you want ? EVE issues\|Mining revamp\|Build stuff\|Make ISK
Squat Hardpeck	Posted - 2009.05.04 08:27:00 - [17] I'm currently in the processes of training for an SB, as the ability to fly around cloaked, unload a payload of death, and quickly warp off, is of great interest to me. What, besides battleships, can a stealth bomber confidently take on? I know frigates and such are out of the question, but what else?
Kendar Gallente Disney inc	Posted - 2009.05.04 09:06:00 - [18] Originally by: Ms Reactance Originally by: Wet Ferret I disagree, Sensor Boosters are still quite useful. This thead isn't about SmartBombs? i thought it was about ShieldBoosters..
Confuzer Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.05.04 09:13:00 - [19] If you fly a SB, do it with friends ;) ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved.
Jaggeh Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.04 10:15:00 - [20] bombers also usually operate in wings IE more than one craft. plus you can fit a bomb launcher aswell as torps, bombs will mess up anything too small for torps to hit and torps will finish off anything the bomb doesnt.
logeoff now	Posted - 2009.05.04 10:22:00 - [21] Edited by: logeoff now on 04/05/2009 10:23:40 Originally by: Jaggeh bombers also usually operate in wings IE more than one craft. plus you can fit a bomb launcher aswell as torps, get into circle and launch bombs in the middle so everyone will get a bite, bombs will mess up anything too small for torps to hit and torps will finish off anything the bomb doesnt. Yeah! Then you can see whos last man standing! New use of SB-s oh i want my manticore to tank like onyx, gief fitt tips nao!! FAST!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.04 10:28:00 - [22] Originally by: Squat Hardpeck I'm currently in the processes of training for an SB, as the ability to fly around cloaked, unload a payload of death, and quickly warp off, is of great interest to me. What, besides battleships, can a stealth bomber confidently take on? I know frigates and such are out of the question, but what else? Battlecruisers? Fit a target painter and you can plausibly target cruisers. NB: Stealthbomber is not a solo ship. It's role now is to add DPS vs heavy ships to recon gangs; let the rapier kill frigates - you should be beating on the raven.
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.04 10:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Squat Hardpeck I'm currently in the processes of training for an SB, as the ability to fly around cloaked, unload a payload of death, and quickly warp off, is of great interest to me. What, besides battleships, can a stealth bomber confidently take on? I know frigates and such are out of the question, but what else? Battlecruisers? Fit a target painter and you can plausibly target cruisers. NB: Stealthbomber is not a solo ship. It's role now is to add DPS vs heavy ships to recon gangs; let the rapier kill frigates - you should be beating on the raven. Confirming this. There are also many other anti-frigate ships that can defend your stealth bomber with ease.
Vincent Gaines Dirt Nap Squad	Posted - 2009.05.04 10:56:00 - [24] Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 04/05/2009 10:55:56 I like the old version better, but the torp bomber along with cheaper bombs does have advantages if used right.
Murina Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.05.04 11:00:00 - [25] Originally by: Ranger 1 You couldn't break a BS tank solo in the old SB either, but you can come a heck of a lot closer to it now. With max skills and an average fit you deliver in the neighborhood of 5000 damage per salvo, and have a ROF of around 8 or 9 seconds. Is it just me but if these figures are correct (and i assume they are) is not 5000 volley dmg and 500-600 dps from a frig with max skills and a "average" fit a little excessive?. Thats more than a max'd skilled ishtar with 5 x ogreII's, more or around the same as a vaga with 3 x GS and faction emp and a zealot with 3 x HS and faction MF.
Grimpak Gallente Clubs and Diamonds	Posted - 2009.05.04 11:01:00 - [26] Originally by: Akita T Seriously, what else do you want ? OP might want a polaris frigate with the ability of fitting dual giga-pulse turrets, 50000% tracking and damage bonuses, and a T3 I-WIN buttan! --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Vincent Gaines Dirt Nap Squad	Posted - 2009.05.04 11:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Murina Originally by: Ranger 1 You couldn't break a BS tank solo in the old SB either, but you can come a heck of a lot closer to it now. With max skills and an average fit you deliver in the neighborhood of 5000 damage per salvo, and have a ROF of around 8 or 9 seconds. Is it just me but if these figures are correct (and i assume they are) is not 5000 volley dmg and 500-600 dps from a frig with max skills and a "average" fit a little excessive?. Thats more than a max'd skilled ishtar with 5 x ogreII's, more or around the same as a vaga with 3 x GS and faction emp and a zealot with 3 x HS and faction MF. Against BSs I guess it's good, but consider the torps themselves. In order to get the range you're spending as much as a BS, but without a tank. with cruises, your tank was range, speed, and surprise. with torps, you lose range and speed. You have a great alpha but if you can't crack the nut right away you're toast. SBs aren't bad now, they're just not a solo ship.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.05.04 11:19:00 - [28] Originally by: Squat Hardpeck What, besides battleships, can a stealth bomber confidently take on? I know frigates and such are out of the question, but what else? Well, you wouldn't really be able to take on anything solo in a general sense (you could probably do it with some imagination, e.g. waiting until a turret battleship engages some heavy rats and then add your DPS to theirs with dual tracking disruptors); you want to be sitting 50-130km away, like some kind of artillery platform that adds damage to a tackled (by someone else!) target. So I'm going to interpret your question as "what ship classes can my torps hit with reasonable effectiveness?" Obviously battleships are one, and battlecruisers would take a good bit of damage too (more than they would have with the old cruise missiles). Unpainted cruisers will take about the same damage as they did from cruise bombers (e.g. about 200 DPS), though of course you have the option here of painting for a damage increase; dual PWNAGE from a Rapier would really make that cruiser hurt. You probably do a little less damage to destroyers than before, but then they're destroyers so they're hardly likely to tank the 100-150 DPS they're taking - and besides, this is probably moot since there's little point firing on an untackled destroyer (he can just warp out or burn out of range), and little point firing on a tackled destroyer (by the time your torps get there, he'll probably be killed by something else). Much less damage to frigates of course, but the same thing applies here. Just think of yourself as a bomber; you're a fragile ship with massive damage potential against large slow targets. Chances are all the ships that get called primary, you'll be able to do decent damage against.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.05.04 11:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Murina [Is it just me but if these figures are correct (and i assume they are) is not 5000 volley dmg and 500-600 dps from a frig with max skills and a "average" fit a little excessive?. Not really, given its role as a bomber - it ought to have very high damage potential against large and/or stationary targets, while being fragile itself and having little or no recourse against small, fast combat ship that swarm it. To that end, doing battlecruiser-class damage (with weapons designed to hit battleships and up) while being a paper-thin frigate looks about right to me. Originally by: Vincent Gaines Against BSs I guess it's good, but consider the torps themselves. In order to get the range you're spending as much as a BS, but without a tank. But with a covops cloak, and frigate-class agility, signature radius and scan resolution. Those are all pretty great things to have - especially given the >100km potential to do your damage and the ability to get there undetected/unmolested (thanks to the cloak). Doing BC-level damage from a place where you can only really be hit by medium-sized anti-support ships is likely to be a better tank than anything a battleship can fit anyway. Quote: with cruises, your tank was range, speed, and surprise. with torps, you lose range and speed. You do lose a little range with torps, but we're talking about in the 130km-220km bracket. If you liked firing cruise missiles from 180km in order to stay out of range of anti-support snipers, then fair enough the range difference will affect this. However, the fact you can still fire from over 100km with torpedoes means that in most situations you're still got a very viable range option. And your "speed" is the same as it was before - better in fact, due to the lack of scan res penalty on the cloak. You've still got the same agility, warp speed, native sub-warp velocity as before. The only difference would be if you choose to fit javelin torps - in which case you do lose 11.6% of your straight-line speed, though I'd say that's a fair tradeoff for the ability to fire from 40km further. The bomber was never going to win a straight-line speed race anyway (nor should it), and this isn't going to change that. Quote: SBs aren't bad now And that's the important bit and something we've been waiting for for a while. You have a great alpha but if you can't crack the nut right away you're toast. SBs aren't bad now, they're just not a solo ship.
A Pacifist	Posted - 2009.05.04 11:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Gartel Reiman Unpainted cruisers will take about the same damage as they did from cruise bombers (e.g. about 200 DPS), though of course you have the option here of painting for a damage increase; dual PWNAGE from a Rapier would really make that cruiser hurt. You've touched on the biggest benefit of the new SB. It adds so much firepower to recon/frigate gangs. They are not solo ships. Solo SBs are failsauce. Get a couple SBs together, each equipped with a TP, and a rapier or arazu to tackle for you and you now have winsauce. If you can't see the benefit of 400 dps on a frigate hull, using a covops cloak, I don't really know what to tell you.

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