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Biced
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Posted - 2009.05.12 23:32:00 -
[1]
missions right?
well in this case the op is actually right =/
best named t1 take ,less grid ,less cpu and less cap.
a bit less damage but better tank.
cant use t2 ammo, but you dont really need to shoot over 100km in missions.
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Biced
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:31:00 -
[2]
Actually, in that case the OP is especially wrong. T2 guns give ~10% damage over best named guns... and missions are about damage not tank. Nobody gives a **** if you can tank 10K damage in your mission... the missions don't deal that much anyway. All that really matters about your tank is that you don't die or warp out. It's trivial to get a fit with T2 guns that supports this premise.
Therefore OP is (still) wrong.
-Liang
have you tried fitting 8 tachyon beams on the abaddon?
t2 is over rated in missions i have have the skills for both.
BS 5 > t2 turrets in missions.
If you are flying a gun boat and have fitting/cap problems cause of the guns,
why not downgrade to t1 best named? cause of the 8% more damage?
or the t2 ammo that gives you over 100km optimal which you dont need?
no one has the spec skill at lvl 5 for missions =p the last 2% are not worth it imo anyway. (rather get something else for this amount of sp but thats just me)
one more damage mod + t1 turrets is better than t2 turrets without it anyway..
Liang, there is nothing wrong with t1 turrets i use t1 turrets on my crusader for pvp and i am doing very well, solves all my cap problems but i do a bit less dps. (but i dont run out of cap i am stable with all modules running 24/7 and i need that if i want to kill anything bigger than a frigate).
the small amount of dps that you get with t2 turrets over the t1 best named is not worth the fitting or the cap problems. if you can fit them and tank the mission without warping out id say fit them if not than get implants/rigs/faction modules. if that still wount solve your problems t1 turrets is the only way really.
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Biced
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:12:00 -
[3]
Linag, i like you..
but you cant be more wrong.
for starters tell all your friends to switch to best named tachs on the abaddon.
there is nothing you can do to make my fit better. (all 5)
what the hell is the point of giving your turrets a rest if you are for as much dps as you can get?
if you dont have the cap to run your turrets your fit is FAIL! sorry but you are the one that were going about more damage, less tank, kill faster point of view.
Hybrid turrets means same cap problems and more cpu problems instead of grid.
8% damage more damage + fitting/cap problems or 24/7 running setup with no fitting problems take your pick if you rather have the 8% damage there is nothing wrong with that but there are others who might choose and for a very good reason, to have less damage for better tank and fitting.
i mean seriously its just 8%. and dont give me that crap about t2 ammo.
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Biced
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:24:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Liang Nuren
I would argue that you're better off with more damage and resting your guns for a few seconds every few minutes. This serves two purposes:
- Still lets you kill big things (you seriously don't ned to AFK in your PVP do you?)
- Lets you kill small things (Warrior II's, frigs) that much faster - potentially fast enough to avoid the gank squad that they were bait/tackling for.[/quote
Dont want to go too much off topic here but have you actually flown the crusader in pvp solo?
have you seen the pittyful em damage that comes out of it if you are at 12km?
i have to run 3-2 turrets if i fit t2 its half the damage! or better yet you might lose the point or the mwd and than your target gets away or you die.
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Biced
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:27:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Biced on 13/05/2009 18:31:39
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Post your fit and find out.
open a new topic and i will 
*edit
or better yet just check in my posts i have posted both my abaddon and crusader fits before might take you a few minuets to find them tho..
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Biced
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:59:00 -
[6]
about the crusader you dont know what you are talking about do you?
i dont use t2 ammo even if i fit t2 turrets.. i used beams and faction ammo.
beast neamed dual beams x4 (faction ammo)
mwd, point
2x od 1x nano 1x cpr.
try this out with t2 turrets and see what happens =p
abaddon
8 best named tachs
ab 3x Cap recharger
LAR II, RCU II, heat sink II, 3Xhardeners,cpr
3% grid implant and 3xccc rigs.
try fitting t2 tachs on the abaddon.. your cap wount last more than 5min.
before you replay, try this out or ask one of your friends..
and i am not running any mission atm either.
i used to and i know what i am talking about.
all the small stuff, BCs and smaller die in 3 volleys at 60km, (frigs just 2-3 turrts at 90km).
and stop saying the same thing over and over again.. you are wrong about the crusader.
and about the cap management thing. doesnt matter what you have in theory it just doesnt work the way you think it is.
and more important is that with t1 turrets you can fit more damage mods, dont forget that 1 damage mod adds more dps than the spec skill at 5.
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Biced
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Biced
Dont want to go too much off topic here but have you actually flown the crusader in pvp solo?
have you seen the pittyful em damage that comes out of it if you are at 12km?
i have to run 3-2 turrets if i fit t2 its half the damage! or better yet you might lose the point or the mwd and than your target gets away or you die.
I've fought a crusader solo, and it took my MSE Stiletto to hull in the short time it took me to MWD back to the gate and click "jump". I have no sympathy for the idea of it having "pathetic" EM damage. Also, I have no sympathy for the idea of EM damage itself being "pathetic" as it's quite frequently the best damage type to use (against shields, which compose more than 50% of the PVP fits out there, and against tri-hardened armor ships).
That said, the only cap using 2 mid ship I've flown into combat was a Blatalyst... and cap wasn't a problem. I have flown Apocs, Abaddons, Geddons, Zealots, Curses, Pilgrims, etc. The same concept applies at the larger levels too (resting the guns on your zealot occasionally is far better than having a permarun fit, IME).
-Liang
Fly a crusader with beams..
smaller ships means more cap management every bit counts. and dont compare cap management on ceptors with HACs and BSs its not even close to being the same thing.
and t2 turrets give you like 6 more dps over the t1 best named. not even worth considering fitting t2 turrets for the cap problems you get along with them.
and taking another ceptor to hull is really easy regardless of the damage type you are dealing.
so dont tell me the damage a crusader deals is so awesome cause you got into hull in a few seconds.
try killing a plated t1 cruiser with it and tell me how it goes or better yet 2 t1 cruisers.
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Biced
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: LordThyGod
it seems like the extra damage added by t2 guns isnt that much, when you look at an over all increase 10% is a good bit but not overwhelming, but what you should really be looking at is damage increase over and beyond the rep of the npc. While its a 10% overall increase it could be a 30% increase over the tanks on harder bs, though honestly i dint like the extra cap usage(cap boosting rokh, i dotn even wanna hear anti cap booster for missions rant, i'll out run most ravens out there and complete every lv4 there is solo) until spec 4, and with spec 5 worlds better than proto's(i do love proto's the carried me for a year)
yes while you can fit t1 turrets and one more damage mod and have 10% in damage and 10% in rof..
what will you choose then?
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Biced
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:13:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: Biced
about the crusader you dont know what you are talking about do you?
i dont use t2 ammo even if i fit t2 turrets.. i used beams and faction ammo.
beast neamed dual beams x4 (faction ammo)
mwd, point
2x od 1x nano 1x cpr.
try this out with t2 turrets and see what happens =p
abaddon
8 best named tachs
ab 3x Cap recharger
LAR II, RCU II, heat sink II, 3Xhardeners,cpr
3% grid implant and 3xccc rigs.
try fitting t2 tachs on the abaddon.. your cap wount last more than 5min.
before you replay, try this out or ask one of your friends..
and i am not running any mission atm either.
i used to and i know what i am talking about.
all the small stuff, BCs and smaller die in 3 volleys at 60km, (frigs just 2-3 turrts at 90km).
and stop saying the same thing over and over again.. you are wrong about the crusader.
and about the cap management thing. doesnt matter what you have in theory it just doesnt work the way you think it is.
and more important is that with t1 turrets you can fit more damage mods, dont forget that 1 damage mod adds more dps than the spec skill at 5.
Apparently somebody's never heard of scorch.
Apparently somebody's never got into a 1 on 1 ceptor fight in a crusader.
55~dps at 14km > you falloff scorch. that will miss twice as much.
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Biced
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:51:00 -
[10]
i said it is going to go off topic really fast =p lol
anyway nvm that lets agree disagree shell we?
how did it go to amarr ships is cause this is what i fly and know about really well.
should not be that much of a difference with rails. pretty much same fitting and cap problems..
might be wrong there.
and about the abaddon and the crusader i can tell you this much i fly both ships for a very long time now there is not much i havent tried with them.
all my setups and everything i have said here comes from in eve experience and situations that i have gotten myself in while flying these ships.
so even if what you say sounds good to you in theory consider trying it in game. (might change your mind)
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Biced
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Lol ok. You think a 3km buffer means anything in an interceptor duel? And beams are going to be able to more than scratch another interceptor with their terrible tracking? Any competent crusader pilot is going to manually fly, get you in pulse range, and annihilate you. You've either never done it before or only fought idiots. Although considering the kind of people that usually rush for interceptors, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the latter.
i can hit you with perfect shots at 18km orbit...
by the time you get in pulse range you are already in a pod...
crusaders are cheap try this out with one of your friends or something.
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Biced
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Posted - 2009.05.13 20:33:00 -
[12]
lasers already take more grid and cap than any other turret..
i think its enough of a drawback but that is another topic again.
anyway there is no such thing as best setup every thing in eve is situational and its kinda stupid that both of us are trying to force our opinions on each other.
glad we can settle this with a smile.
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