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Taelech
Caldari Caldari Design and Cryogenics
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Posted - 2009.05.05 21:45:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Owl Algernon
Sure, I could invest in EVE Bank or something. But I want to actually be 'involved' in my game. I don't need more money, and I don't want the game to 'play itself' - so to speak.
Aye, as did I before the corporate firewall went up.... sigh
Taelech - Professor emeritus - Caldari Business Tribunal School of Law
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Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.05.05 21:45:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Owl Algernon Nice ad hominem there. When facts fail you I suppose it's all you've got.
It's only an Ad Hominem if I say you're wrong because you have not enough brains, which is not the case. I'm saying you're wrong (supported by arguments) AND that you have not enough brains.
FREE! jumpclone service - over 200 locations! |
GuildNavigator
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.05 21:45:00 -
[33]
What is it that you fear, that you feel the need to post a warning (advice as you call it)? It's from little fish like me that you get so rich. And since you so elegantly state that you don't need more money... why do you even care? I fail to see your point...
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Owl Algernon
Caldari The Starving Hearts of Darkness
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Posted - 2009.05.05 21:52:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Robacz @OP Hmmm, 225B / updating 4x a day / playing since 2003 ? I wouldn't brag about that.
Sure, there are plenty of people who've been playing as long as me with far less. I used one account and probably 50 buy/sell orders up until a year ago. It wasn't until last year that I started heavily running the market and really acquiring BPOs.
I'd say last year I was at about 90b or so total. So turning that 90 into about 225 in a year is just fine by me.
Nice try though.
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Owl Algernon
Caldari The Starving Hearts of Darkness
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Posted - 2009.05.05 21:54:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Owl Algernon Nice ad hominem there. When facts fail you I suppose it's all you've got.
It's only an Ad Hominem if I say you're wrong because you have not enough brains, which is not the case. I'm saying you're wrong (supported by arguments) AND that you have not enough brains.
Reading Comprehension 101
PS. You haven't provided a single valid argument against me. You're only point for the most part is that I could get a better ROR investing in banks rather than BPOs, which is completely and utterly false and not my experience at all.
You're voiced an opinion and called me names. That's about it.
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Owl Algernon
Caldari The Starving Hearts of Darkness
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Posted - 2009.05.05 21:56:00 -
[36]
Originally by: GuildNavigator What is it that you fear, that you feel the need to post a warning (advice as you call it)? It's from little fish like me that you get so rich. And since you so elegantly state that you don't need more money... why do you even care? I fail to see your point...
I've explained why I made this post if you read more of the thread.
I also went on to explain why I continue to try to make more money even though I don't need it (market PVP).
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Owl Algernon
Caldari The Starving Hearts of Darkness
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Posted - 2009.05.05 21:59:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Owl Algernon on 05/05/2009 22:00:27
Originally by: Taelech
Aye, as did I before the corporate firewall went up.... sigh
It's funny that you mention that, as a close friend of mine and I were discussing that problem the other day.
I'm self-employed and work from home, he does not. The dichotomy has pushed our playstyles into two different trajectories, particularly for the reason you state.
He mentioned he'd really like to be more active in market PVP, as I am, but that once he gets home (no corp firewall) he's just too tired to bother with it. For that reason he turned to EBank for passive income since he wants to shoot spaceships when he gets home, not buy and sell them.
However, that's another thread for another time!
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.05 22:01:00 -
[38]
If you're already so rich that you don't need the money, and you're already working as much capital as possible as hard as you can, why are you so paranoid about investing the suprplus in other people? If someone like you can't afford the risks, who can? In the safest cases, I'd go so far as to argue that it's barely any more risky than your current activities, and the returns are still better than BPO purchases if you find someone competent to manage things. If you invested completely indiscriminately, you'd probably lose most of your savings, but no-one is that naive. --- 20:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Owl Algernon
Caldari The Starving Hearts of Darkness
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Posted - 2009.05.05 22:05:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro If you're already so rich that you don't need the money, and you're already working as much capital as possible as hard as you can, why are you so paranoid about investing the suprplus in other people? If someone like you can't afford the risks, who can? In the safest cases, I'd go so far as to argue that it's barely any more risky than your current activities, and the returns are still better than BPO purchases if you find someone competent to manage things. If you invested completely indiscriminately, you'd probably lose most of your savings, but no-one is that naive.
I already explained that in about 3 responses. However, since you didn't read them I'll repeat it -
I want to actually play the game and enjoy market PVP instead of just paying other people to play the game for me.
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Dennmoth Ferdier
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.05.05 22:05:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Owl Algernon Lots of ego stroking, stretching of the e-peen and purring in an imaginary fantasyworld made of clouds
So, basicly, you say small fish look silly getting in to trading because there are big fishes like yourself. Does this mean they shouldn't try and learn? Should they not even try to compete because you have the wallet of gods that wins eve?
Basicly, all you did in the OP was boast about your wallet and how your glory outshines all the little people below you.
You stepped in to the lair of the market ancients, no one knows who you are, no one really cares who you are, you provide nothing constructive, nothing that benefits anyone, nothing that even remotely entertains the readers, and mainly just shows how arrogant you are.
Welcome to MD. ------ Dare to challenge me? |
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Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.05.05 22:09:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Owl Algernon Reading Comprehension 101
Note the "rather than" part of that definition
Originally by: Owl Algernon PS. You haven't provided a single valid argument against me. You're only point for the most part is that I could get a better ROR investing in banks rather than BPOs, which is completely and utterly false and not my experience at all.
(A) The thing about putting money in a bank was in comparison to your example of investing 40B to get 500M profit a month. (B) I have also stated that more generally you can get a higher rate of return than pretty much any bought T2 BPO in various other ways which require less work (which I have not specified, but have hinted at; surely you can figure it out yourself).
(A) was just and example, (B) is the core of my argument.
FREE! jumpclone service - over 200 locations! |
Owl Algernon
Caldari The Starving Hearts of Darkness
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Posted - 2009.05.05 22:11:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Owl Algernon on 05/05/2009 22:11:53
Originally by: Dennmoth Ferdier
Originally by: Owl Algernon Lots of ego stroking, stretching of the e-peen and purring in an imaginary fantasyworld made of clouds
So, basicly, you say small fish look silly getting in to trading because there are big fishes like yourself. Does this mean they shouldn't try and learn? Should they not even try to compete because you have the wallet of gods that wins eve?
Basicly, all you did in the OP was boast about your wallet and how your glory outshines all the little people below you.
You stepped in to the lair of the market ancients, no one knows who you are, no one really cares who you are, you provide nothing constructive, nothing that benefits anyone, nothing that even remotely entertains the readers, and mainly just shows how arrogant you are.
Welcome to MD.
A. The lair of market ancients?!? Hahahahaha. Ok, now THAT sounds foolish. This isn't even one of the original EVE forums.
B. I wouldn't 'brag' about my wallet because it honestly pales in comparison to the truly wealthy in this game. I'm moderately wealthy. Very middle of the road. My wealth is not something to really brag about.
C. Sure, new players are welcome to step up to the plate and play the market game alongside the vets. However, the whole reason for my OP was to educate them on who they are up against. It seems the attitude of most new players playing the market is that it's fast, easy money. They read a bunch of over-complicated nonsense (probably here from your 'market ancients' /laugh) and then figure they'll jump into the market and make a billion in a week.
The OP is to straighten out the misconception that the market is for carebears and a way to make quick money. It's as cutthroat as an 0.0 roaming gang or gate camp, likely more so, to be honest.
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Kuzya Morozov
Gallente Futuristic Sex Robots
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Posted - 2009.05.05 22:15:00 -
[43]
Please, for the love of god, get out of your mom's basement.
Oh, and stop posting.
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Owl Algernon
Caldari The Starving Hearts of Darkness
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Posted - 2009.05.05 22:19:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Owl Algernon on 05/05/2009 22:21:54
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Owl Algernon Reading Comprehension 101
Note the "rather than" part of that definition
What's your point? You said it had to do with saying I was 'wrong'. It doesn't.
Once again, you didn't state facts, or provide evidence or an argument. You stated most BPO investments won't make you the same returns as EBank. Which is -
A. An opinion. B. A misguided one (as there can be no 'wrong' opinion).
So, nice backpeddling, but you're still losing ground here.
Originally by: Estel Arador
(A) The thing about putting money in a bank was in comparison to your example of investing 40B to get 500M profit a month. (B) I have also stated that more generally you can get a higher rate of return than pretty much any bought T2 BPO in various other ways which require less work (which I have not specified, but have hinted at; surely you can figure it out yourself).
(A) was just and example, (B) is the core of my argument.
I already mentioned that 500m a month from a 40b BPO was arbitrary. I told you to pick your own numbers. The point wasn't to provide evidence, it was to provide a simple illustration that buying a BPO isn't losing money. It's trading items of equal value for a chance to make a greater profit than investment of the money would make (which I can't do as I've explained I'm maxed on orders, etc), and a profit that I've always managed to make at about 10% to 20% ROR, which is far better than any bank.
So, your A is a misguided opinion and not an argument. Your B was factually wrong, not to mention I already expalined I don't want to pay others to play my game, so banks are of no interest to me.
I don't need more money, I play the game for fun. Therefore, banks provide nothing of interest for me.
So, to sum this up, as I've stated all this before - you have provided a misguided opinion, a flawed argument, and an option that is of no interest to me.
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Eifersucht87
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Posted - 2009.05.05 22:31:00 -
[45]
Quote: I'm posting this thread with an alt as my corp and few alt characters would likely become some target of angst for being critical of some folks. However, while some of this may sound derogatory, it's more advice than anything.
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Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
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Posted - 2009.05.05 22:40:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Owl Algernon I'm posting this thread with an alt as my corp and few alt characters would likely become some target of angst for being critical of some folks. However, while some of this may sound derogatory,
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Ryhss
Caldari P'n'L Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.05 22:43:00 -
[47]
Why the hell waste time "playing the market"? Just buy n sell normally, blow crap up. Kill rats, call it a day.
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Axearm Thunk'um
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Posted - 2009.05.05 23:00:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria The fact that you would even consider purchasing another T2 print convinces me of your idiocy, ignoring the obvious chest thumping here.
I don't want to put words in Kazzac's mouth but when you manage to get him, the most even handed poster to here, to call you a blow hard, you really have achieved some fame.
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Owl Algernon
Caldari The Starving Hearts of Darkness
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Posted - 2009.05.05 23:17:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Owl Algernon on 05/05/2009 23:21:39
Originally by: Axearm Thunk'um
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria The fact that you would even consider purchasing another T2 print convinces me of your idiocy, ignoring the obvious chest thumping here.
I don't want to put words in Kazzac's mouth but when you manage to get him, the most even handed poster to here, to call you a blow hard, you really have achieved some fame.
Even-handed or not, his claim was total nonsense. Being a well-known poster does not preclude you from being a financial schlemiel.
PS. I'd like to add to that that I'm fascinated by this forum's blind faith in its 'elite'. Critical thinking and a bit of common sense will tell most anyone that a forum's 'elite' are simply those who post most often, and do their best to sound educated on a particular topic.
As I've stated already, I'd venture to make an outside guess that at most about 5% of EVE's population even read these forums. When people see a 'new face' that probably lurks in the background they immediately assume that they're new and stupid. Why? Because those making that flawed judgement simply don't see them post very often, if at all.
Not sound logic.
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Stardust CEO
Stardust Manufacturing
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Posted - 2009.05.06 00:25:00 -
[50]
ur dum
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Power Sauce
Kenzzoku
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Posted - 2009.05.06 00:28:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Owl Algernon When people see a 'new face' that probably lurks in the background they immediately assume that they're new and stupid.
No. The opinions have been based on your posting.
The summary of the OP is.
Introduction.
About me.
Epeen boosting I kill everyone in market pvp ranting, with telling other people how foolish they look. This is just the MD version of people talking about how great they are at pvp in the C&P forum.
It's great that you have your opinions, but you seem very sensitive to people questioning the size of your epeen. Do you run large market orders to compensate for some inadiquacy?
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Mazzarins Demise
Profit Development and Research Association
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Posted - 2009.05.06 00:30:00 -
[52]
I think your arrogance has a lot to do with your treatment.
If you're trying to be helpful, sometimes the message is almost as important as the meaning.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.06 00:35:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Owl Algernon
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro If you're already so rich that you don't need the money, and you're already working as much capital as possible as hard as you can, why are you so paranoid about investing the suprplus in other people? If someone like you can't afford the risks, who can? In the safest cases, I'd go so far as to argue that it's barely any more risky than your current activities, and the returns are still better than BPO purchases if you find someone competent to manage things. If you invested completely indiscriminately, you'd probably lose most of your savings, but no-one is that naive.
I already explained that in about 3 responses. However, since you didn't read them I'll repeat it -
I want to actually play the game and enjoy market PVP instead of just paying other people to play the game for me.
I'm not suggesting that you stop, just that if you already have as much isk as you need to enjoy yourself, via the markets or otherwise, why not invest some of the remainder? --- 20:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Owl Algernon
Caldari The Starving Hearts of Darkness
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Posted - 2009.05.06 01:21:00 -
[54]
Look at all the kids who can't read and can't resist the urge to respond to a 'troll'.
Entertaining.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.06 01:39:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Owl Algernon
Even-handed or not, his claim was total nonsense. Being a well-known poster does not preclude you from being a financial schlemiel.
Perhaps I should have been more forthcoming with an explanation of my assertion, I know sometimes things can get lost in translation over forums. My claim was that purchasing a new T2 is a stupid waste of liquid capital.
Once could more easily invest 20-40b into the T2 materials market and turn a nice easy 30% over the course of a month or two. All with the same amount of work any form of T2 production would involve.
Honestly I'm quite surprised this has blown over your head since anyone with a reasonable sense involved in the T2 production market should have some competency over the flux of materials involved in them. Which pretty much leads me to accept that yes though you might actually own some prints, and yes you might actually produce at a regular profit of them, you lack the basic understanding of the market forces at work within your own production scheme and consequently blind to the profit potential your capital actually has.
200b+ and thinking of purchasing prints?!?
You'd be selling yourself short is more or less what Im getting at. |
Maxwell Terallis
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Posted - 2009.05.06 01:44:00 -
[56]
I know I haven't been around here that long, but even I can see this was a troll post from the beginning.
To the OP:
I hope this thread helped you kill that time at work! :)
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Power Sauce
Kenzzoku
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Posted - 2009.05.06 01:44:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Owl Algernon Look at all the kids who can't read and can't resist the urge to respond to a 'troll'.
Entertaining.
How ironic, someone pretending to troll.
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Bocryn
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Posted - 2009.05.06 01:49:00 -
[58]
Quote: I don't need more money, and I don't want the game to 'play itself' - so to speak.
Then why aren't you thanking those of us who are trying to creep into your markets? Isn't it nice to actually have to change your orders when you check them, as opposed to just realizing that there is no competition? The little guys are going to keep playing the game until they run out of money.
Until then, quit whining. If they're turning a profit, and enjoying it, let them be. They're just doing exactly what you're doing, playing a game. Get over yourself.
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Owl Algernon
Caldari The Starving Hearts of Darkness
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Posted - 2009.05.06 02:09:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Maxwell Terallis I know I haven't been around here that long, but even I can see this was a troll post from the beginning.
To the OP:
I hope this thread helped you kill that time at work! :)
Hahaha, this is likely the most illuminated and accurate post in this thread.
While my OP is completely accurate, the whining flock of 'finanacial gurus' who came into the thread lead me to find some way to entertain myself while taking care of a sick kid home from school all day.
It's amazing how many folks in here don't know how to work the system, or even comprehend basic rules of investment. My particular favorite are those folks who think purchasing t2 BPOs is a bad idea. (If such were the case the market for them would have quickly dropped to RORs in terms of months or a year. Regardless, I honestly think that its people just spewing nonsense to keep people out of a very lucrative t2 market.)
Credit is due to Max for unlocking the thread. Kudos, sir.
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Plumpy McPudding
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Posted - 2009.05.06 02:48:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Owl Algernon
While my OP is completely accurate, the whining flock of 'finanacial gurus' who came into the thread lead me to find some way to entertain myself while taking care of a sick kid home from school all day.
I find it rather amusing, but also quite disturbing, you'd rather post a troll thread on the forums to entertain yourself, rather than spend some time with your own sick kid. __________________________
Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream. |
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