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Marcus Xavier
Minmatar Xavier Institute for Higher Learning
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Posted - 2009.05.07 01:09:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Thalia Kell What eve needs is a negative impact on sensors when you are cloaked. Its just stupid that no one can see you, but you can see just perfect.
Im not only talking about the ship scanner, but also about visual sight.
Yeah, it's too much like real life. Just because passive sonar on a submarine can identify ships from miles away doesn't mean that Eve should emulate it. ---------------- Mutatis Mutandis |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.05.07 03:16:00 -
[32]
Another cloak-whine thread? Is this a theme today?
Already balanced - doesn't need fixing. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
greeny knight
Amarr Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.05.07 05:04:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Hame leGrey Eve does not equal real world.
Leave the cloaks as they are.
otherwise you need to start to play right.
years ago i made propositions to change the cloacking system , years its a pain in the b*t as it is , it is unreal that a ship can stay cloacked all day , exept for the specialized ones sb cov op recons , if you read the descriptipn of the mod proto cloack or inproved cloack . "module creates high sensor disruption while fitted and can not operate unless at minimum velocity." you can have a probe or module to counteract that .
it is realy anoying when in system a red is there all day afk and you can't find that bloody guy .
just add to combatprobes the ability to have a remote chance to find cloaclers exept the ones who can fir cov op cloack
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Ron Bacardi
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.05.07 06:43:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Lacey Black Edited by: Lacey Black on 06/05/2009 21:45:26 I see nothing wrong with the cloak... + words
I disagree...the in-flight movie sucks tonight.
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Kyrghiz
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Posted - 2009.05.07 07:07:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Lacey Black ... everything has a weakness.
You mean like -75% velocity penalty, -40% scan resolution bonus and not being able to warp? Personally I don't care what happen's to cloaking if it is nerfed or not, but somehow i miss the point in nerfing crappy ships (force recons, covert ops) into more crappy ships. Or nerfing crappy equipment, which annoys entire fittings because it eats up more CPU than any of my guns. Also i dont see why a counter (cloaking) for a specific system (probing) needs a counter, making itself useless. But then again i dont care about cloaks since i nerver used them.
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.07 09:26:00 -
[36]
I think that cloaking is mostly fine as it is.
You cannot lock or fire while cloaked - and hardly can use any modules. Plus - except for covops ships (which are specialized, small and fragile) - fitting a cloak gimps your ship.
The only change that I would welcome is a special cloak detector probe that can find covops ship - *but* hard to use and needs a long time and never gets a perfect reading or provide something lockable (would need to (smart-)bomb the area or fly around until you bump it into visibility). The typical time to find a cloaked ship with that should be no less than 15-30 minutes and even that will be useless if the cloaker warps once in a while (i.e. - is online).
Thus the only practical use would be to find and perhaps destroy afk cloakers. Having an effect in game while being afk should be discouraged - or at least not without its own risks.
Anything beyond that would make cloaking useless. If there's a probe that allows you to target cloaked ships quickly then cloaking would become useless. You only need a few specialized scouts (assuming it needs high skills - but high skills can hardly ever be a balancing factor anyway) to make cloaking utterly useless.
--- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back! Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE |
Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.07 09:59:00 -
[37]
Fix cloaking:
Remove uncloaking delay Remove scan res penalty Remove uncloaking near objects Remove no warping whilst cloaked
Add a probe that can with difficulty detect cloaked ships Add a decloaking bomb Add fuel for cloaks. Add % fitting for cloak +10% cpu +10% pg
reasons
Losing 1 high slot and the pg + cpu to fit it is very expensive already.
Ganking Buddhist Nun |
Neamus
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Posted - 2009.05.07 10:48:00 -
[38]
I vote to leave cloaking alone, its fine as it is...
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Muaina Naura
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Posted - 2009.05.07 10:54:00 -
[39]
Funny how others argue about how no one should be 100% safe so cloaks are okay. What is really annoying is ratters safing and cloaking the moment someone enters their local. But then again they would just log off if cloaking would not be 100% safe but then there would be atleast 1 minute to probe the bugger.
Prototype cloak is too easy to fit just about any ship.
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Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad
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Posted - 2009.05.07 10:55:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid appears that Sev3rance are unable to coordinate together enough to provide cover for ratters in a system that has some guy who might surprise one of them if he's even fit to blow stuff up to begin with.
I assure you, this is truth.
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Steppa
Gallente Incognito Inc
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Posted - 2009.05.07 12:18:00 -
[41]
A long time ago when I was living in deep 0.0, afk enemy cloakers really ****ed me off. Still do, in fact, as there's no counter.
However it did lead to an idea that I would like to see implemented that would add a whole new dimension to the game;
Cloaked ships can see other cloaked ships...complete with mods and weapons that can only operate while cloaked. Thus, theoretically, you could have an entire fleet engagement (with many new cloak-centric ships across all size hulls) of cloaked-equipped weapons raging right in front of you, but if you weren't cloaked, all you would see are unexplained explosions, people coming out of cloak when they get to close to something, cans appearing...etc.
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Fox Ogmo
Net 7 The Last Brigade
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Posted - 2009.05.07 13:24:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Faife
Quote: I see nothing wrong with the cloak system...
i agree.
/thread
This thread ended long ago...
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Silaq
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Posted - 2009.05.07 13:26:00 -
[43]
Seems some of you should direct your complaining at local, not cloaks. I believe the devs have said a couple of times that they want to change (or do away with?) local for that very reason.
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Warlin
Gallente Theoretical Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.05.07 13:31:00 -
[44]
clearly you've never seen professional cloak hunters - scary buggers, they fly around with smartbombs and they pass their drones from one member to another clearing a grid, very tough to avoid. Im gonna say the cloak system is fine the way it is, but if they really wanted make a cloak detection module that scanes nearby and can help you probe out a cloaker based on a distance reading - so you can play hot/cold rather than just being able to find and nail them w/ probes from anyplace, give it a range of like 100k? and lowsec/0.0 only? (to avoid the smartbomb like effect from 'hitting' other players)
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Brizae
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Posted - 2009.05.07 13:52:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Warlin clearly you've never seen professional cloak hunters
Professional cloak hunter? That sounds like a lot of fun. I'll have to find out more about this profession.
There is nothing wrong with the cloaking system the way it is now. The only fix need here is a nappy change for the QQ-ers.
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.05.07 13:55:00 -
[46]
SOMETHING needs to be done because the game has become nothing but cloakers and logoffskis. This is supposed to be a PvP game, but it just isn't when everyone runs around cloaked refusing to fight each other and only gank the occasional mining barge or ratter. Accomplishing that is all well and good as it is the entire purpose of these ships, but it should not be done with total and complete impunity. It used to be you fit up a ship and flew it deep into enemy territory and saw how much damage you could inflict before being blown up. Now everyone just fits a cloak and/or exploits the broken logoff mechanics and can come and go with ease, never getting killed. That is not PvP.
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.05.07 14:02:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Warlin clearly you've never seen professional cloak hunters - scary buggers, they fly around with smartbombs and they pass their drones from one member to another clearing a grid, very tough to avoid.
That is like looking for a needle in a haystack and can only be done immediately after you see them jump into the system and thus, know about where they are. Even then it's a crap shoot.
Originally by: Warlin Im gonna say the cloak system is fine the way it is, but if they really wanted make a cloak detection module that scanes nearby and can help you probe out a cloaker based on a distance reading - so you can play hot/cold rather than just being able to find and nail them w/ probes from anyplace, give it a range of like 100k? and lowsec/0.0 only? (to avoid the smartbomb like effect from 'hitting' other players)
Yes, a depth charge like system would be fun, where you fly around blasting off smart bombs or launching the flying bombs in different directions with larger explosion radii trying to get lucky and decloak the enemy. A smart enemy would likely be able to avoid it just fine unless you get lucky, but at least you're doing SOMETHING and the enemy has to do something active himself to stay safe.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.05.07 14:02:00 -
[48]
cry more op
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.05.07 14:12:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Hyveres Edited by: Hyveres on 06/05/2009 22:22:46 You mean the classic DD , safespot , cloak that makes a certain type of ship easy to survive with.
Or the good ole cloaked Raven ratters and various other kind of hiding in annoying ways.
As I see it the normal cloak should simply give -90% signal strength if people try to scan you down, while the covop cloak can function like it currently does. This means a cloaked ship is hell to locate , a covop is covert but people trying to hide in big ships will be discovered.
Heck from what a lot of people are saying the cloaking mechanics is one reason why so few titans are killed even if their DD misses when they face the 10 minute timer which "should" be making them vulnerable.
The ravens will just log instead of cloak.
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MasterEnt
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Posted - 2009.05.07 15:05:00 -
[50]
Funny - For some reason I was thinking about EVE Cloaking on my way to work this morning.
As an Avid Covert Ops pilot, I agree that there needs to be a counter covert ops ability. This could happen a couple of ways.
For one We would need some more cloaking skills and then some cloak detection skills.
As for actual detection, maybe it should be limited to POS based modules that scan a sector, or only available to sovereign systems allowing scanning of the entire system.
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Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.05.07 15:14:00 -
[51]
Just remove local and the problem goes away.
For now I guess sitting AFK cloaked in Sev systems is an effective way to prevent you guys ratting? We come for our people |
Rhadamantine
Game Community
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Posted - 2009.05.07 15:27:00 -
[52]
AFK cloaked ships are a valid warfare tool, as it plays mind games with those affected, hence the existence of this thread.
An AFK cloaker has never killed anyone, or stopped any organised group from playing. If you find you cannot play, then you need to be more organised,
Oh and comparing RL F-117's to Eve is fail.
'I see nothing wrong with the cloak system' is where you should have stopped tbh.
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greeny knight
Amarr Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.05.07 15:56:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid appears that Sev3rance are unable to coordinate together enough to provide cover for ratters in a system that has some guy who might surprise one of them if he's even fit to blow stuff up to begin with.
I assure you, this is truth.
our killbord shows a diff story , but that are active ones , thye goo BOOOOOOMMM once in a wile its the afk ones we have problems with , wonder when the sb cloacked tron stikes next , or the cov op with his cov op syno recovers in his clone bay of the shock Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) |
Drunk Driver
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.05.07 16:01:00 -
[54]
I like my cloaked ships.
They scare peoples.
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Corduroy Rab
Chaos Reborn Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.05.07 16:01:00 -
[55]
Originally by: greeny knight
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid appears that Sev3rance are unable to coordinate together enough to provide cover for ratters in a system that has some guy who might surprise one of them if he's even fit to blow stuff up to begin with.
I assure you, this is truth.
our killbord shows a diff story , but that are active ones , thye goo BOOOOOOMMM once in a wile its the afk ones we have problems with , wonder when the sb cloacked tron stikes next , or the cov op with his cov op syno recovers in his clone bay of the shock
So when people are active you can handle them, but when they are afk and not playing you somehow cannot...
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llhloiug
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Posted - 2009.05.07 16:30:00 -
[56]
A cloak is an active module. It should drain capacitor like any other active module. Granted, there are some that don't drain much (i.e. DC), but this could be an optional way of limiting the time a pilot spends cloaked. I think the extended recloak penalty with the recent patch is a step in the right direction.
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Kai'Ckul
Caldari Solar Storm
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Posted - 2009.05.07 19:14:00 -
[57]
As a tool for denying operations and for wasting manpower, cloak is surpassed by none in EVE. A cloaked SB BS could in essence stay in a system (or wormhole for that matter), for days, logged in, doing nothing, and forcing the owner of the system to either accept random losses, or wasting manpower keeping a guard force in system. Or for that matter, it could be a mothership or carrier, cloak works still. I have no problem with bombers, covops and recons being able to hide for prolonged periods of time. These ships are designed for it, and to larger or greater extend balanced for it. A bomber can pack a potent punch alright, but for its cost it is a fairly fragile ship. Recons the same. The skill invested in flying them and being actually able to kill stuff in them is also significant.
That however is a far cry from slapping some bombs, inertia stabs, wcs and a cloak on a tier 1 bs, and pop by your computer every few hours just to see if the easy pickings present themselves. That doesnt take skill, just patience and a good book or movie.
A couple of the suggested countermeasures sound interesting, but first and foremost:
Cloaking must consume fuel on ships not designed spesifically for cloak. That puts it in line with other mods like siege and triage, which give you a significant bonus. And fuel consumption must be depending on the bulk of what you are trying to cloak. If you want to cloak a kestrel, that should consume far less fuel than if you try to cloak a megathron, or a carrier for that matter. To avoid carriers filling their maintenance bays with fuel, maintenance bay and ship hangar should be locked for movement while cloaked.
There has been a lot of debates on how to detect cloakers, probes, POS arrays,or decloak bombs. POS arrays might be the best option, giving cloakers a harder time trying to infiltrate a heavily fortified system, than when they roam sparsely populated areas or supporting hunting OPs. Possibly a cumulative effect, forcing the defenders to invest in several large POS with scanner arrays pr system if they want to stand a chance at detecting cloakers. There is of course the tried and tested method aswell.... a large bubble along the warpin path, coupled with 1-2-3 bombships Doesn't work too well with NRDS tho
oh.. And I find it rather strange that damage taken does not decloak you.... Your cloak is altering the shields is it not ? Incomming damage should also alter your shields somewhat
----------------------------------------------------- "You must not fight too often with your enemy or you will teach him all your art of war" - Napoleon Bonaparte |
Kelly Dataminer
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Posted - 2009.05.07 20:42:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Kai'Ckul
Cloaking must consume fuel on ships not designed specifically for cloak.
Would be completely in favor of this. The fact that you can cloak a titan completely without any chance of detection is ludicrous. Covops ships are made to be long term behind the lines ships and rigged specifically for this. Throwing a cloak on a non-covops without some kind of change to the ship, fuel requirements, or its structure and still allowing it to be undetectable is just ludicrous.
Everything has a counter in this game (heck even cyno jammers have one now). Where's this one?
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Corduroy Rab
Chaos Reborn Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.05.07 21:24:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kelly Dataminer
Originally by: Kai'Ckul
Cloaking must consume fuel on ships not designed specifically for cloak.
Would be completely in favor of this. The fact that you can cloak a titan completely without any chance of detection is ludicrous. Covops ships are made to be long term behind the lines ships and rigged specifically for this. Throwing a cloak on a non-covops without some kind of change to the ship, fuel requirements, or its structure and still allowing it to be undetectable is just ludicrous.
Everything has a counter in this game (heck even cyno jammers have one now). Where's this one?
Let me start by saying that I do not agree with you in any way.
That said, I do not think this is really going to be as much of an issue, since it seems to me that the future of 'afk' recon camps will likely not need as many conventional ships with cloaks.
I envision it being more a lone 'afk' recon sitting lazily for hours, then once the residents start ratting/mining whatever, it tackles then pops a covert cyno and suddenly becomes a recon gang.
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Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad
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Posted - 2009.05.07 22:53:00 -
[60]
Originally by: greeny knight
wonder when the sb cloacked tron stikes next , or the cov op with his cov op syno recovers in his clone bay of the shock
we're doing just fine i.e. drop in the bucket, and 'twas a fun few days
I'm not a diplo/dir so not going to say any more.
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