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XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 243	Posted - 2012.05.08 21:24:00 - [1] - Quote No. Use a dominix. If you want to play with big ships and "higher end content" you'll need to leave the Concord blanket at home.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 244	Posted - 2012.05.09 00:52:00 - [2] - Quote Loius Woo wrote: Also, I am not under a concord blanket, nor am I talking about "higher end content" Please read my "caveat" from my OP. you want carrier like abilities in high sec how about no?
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 246	Posted - 2012.05.09 17:16:00 - [3] - Quote Loius Woo wrote: Actually, I want it for roaming gangs in null, but it doesn't make sense to restrict it to null sec if it can jump through gates. Dont assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a high sec care bear. Your opinion regarding the idea has been made clear. You don't win points by continuing to make it over and over. Thanks for playing. You must be new to posting. The idea is bad and this thread is bad and you should feel bad.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 246	Posted - 2012.05.09 17:57:00 - [4] - Quote Loius Woo wrote: Also, after perusing your 26 pages of posts in the forums it is clear that you have never contributed to any discussion you have dropped into ever. /hide posts. Done. hahahahahahaha oh so little you know you're adorable, can i keep you?
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 246	Posted - 2012.05.09 19:41:00 - [5] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: Hey sketch, good to see you back and trolling again. Its been a while. hey Joe, post more terrible ideas so we can shoot them down TIA
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 248	Posted - 2012.05.10 17:56:00 - [6] - Quote ITT people that don't use capitals talking about capitals.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 248	Posted - 2012.05.11 01:54:00 - [7] - Quote Minidread: abbadon. Park it at a POS and go afk. Its literally the same as going into siege. If you really want a dread/carrier, train for them and leave high sec.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 249	Posted - 2012.05.11 06:03:00 - [8] - Quote Why do you think this thing is needed? Give me a scenario that you've been in, in which this ship would fill a missing role. A fleet fight link would be nice as well.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 254	Posted - 2012.05.12 00:58:00 - [9] - Quote Cygnet Lythanea wrote: Because we have ships with double skill bonuses in their weapons for every weapon but drones. A fast locking BS limited to drones but able to launch a large number of them would be an excellent (and more durable then most) picket ship against raids by stealth bombers but also have a degree of tactical flexibility if confronted with a more powerful raiding force (something a destroyer, the more traditional counter to this, lacks) And if you're response is 'fly a dominix' I do, and therefor know of what I speak when I say it's too easy to kill the handful of drones a dom can cough up. If the old +1 per level bonus was combined with the current +10% bonus, it would be worthwhile, however. AS to why we don't have this now: we used to, the devs didn't want to upgrade hardware at the time, so they nerfed drones. The current devs, who replaced the previous ones, just hate drones and have stated they don't feel they're worthwhile primary weapons. I You neglected to answer the rest of my question. Point to a situation you have been in that this ship would have been useful. That there was a role that needed filling. A battle report and summary of what happened and why this ship would have helped fill a void would be nice.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 255	Posted - 2012.05.12 05:09:00 - [10] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: If every ship put into Eve was required to fill a needed role, there wouldn't be any ships in Eve, and their certainly wouldn't be capitals. Ships are features of Eve, not necessities and role fillers. Do you live under a rock? CCP is specifically making an effort to apply a "role" to every ship.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 255	Posted - 2012.05.12 05:14:00 - [11] - Quote Loius Woo wrote: This^^ What "role" in a fight was observed that gave birth to Titans? None, it was someone who said "hey, this might be a cool ship to fly, lets do it!" Do you live under a rock as well? Have you noticed that titans have been nerfed a lot over the years because their "cool features" were imbalanced? Quote: So, the argument that keeps getting put out "this doesn't fill a role" is a straw man argument. Oh the contrary. The fact that you people can't come up with a role that this ship would fill that is otherwise not being filled right now shows that there is no need for this ship in the game. Quote: Its a game, if the ship is fun to fly, then it fills a role. I want an ibis that can fit a doomsday and cannot be targeted by any other ship. I think it'd be fun to fly. Guess it fills a role right?
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 255	Posted - 2012.05.12 05:18:00 - [12] - Quote Flashrain wrote: In all combat situations, one or two bombs can wipe out the entire fleet worth of drones. I've been in this situation on both sides, and frankly its perfectly balanced. If you have insta locking ships, you can pop those bombers pretty well. And on the other side of that, bombers serve a great role in forcing capitals to be aware of the potential for their fighters/fighter bombers to be wiped out by a good bombing run.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 07:15:00 - [13] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: I'm really bad at posting. I like the part where its me trolling when you disagree with me, but me being perfectly fine when you agree with me. Hint: you're not very smart. and each of those ships you listed? fills a role I've yet to see a role that this proposed ship fills
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 07:18:00 - [14] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: The ones I can think of that did fill a role that was needed Rorqual Dreads Logistics Interceptors Interdictors Heavy interdictors Industrial ships Yeah, jump freighters don't have a role. Tier 3 BCs? Yeah no role Freighters? You're right, they were just put in for fun. Black ops bs? Yeah, they were put in game for giggles
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 07:20:00 - [15] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: If every ship put into Eve was required to fill a needed role, there wouldn't be any ships in Eve, and their certainly wouldn't be capitals. Ships are features of Eve, not necessities and role fillers. This statement just shows a blatant failure to understand the game on a larger scale. What exactly do you do in Eve? Spaceships and spaceship combat and thus spaceship roles and balancing are literally the core components of Eve.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 08:02:00 - [16] - Quote Whether the role was "needed" or not is irrelevant. You or anyone else in this thread has yet to say what this ships role is. What this ship adds. What role is missing that ship would fill besides "haha wouldn't it be cool if..." also, Iol at the definitions my point was that you noted ships as being nothing more than just another "feature," implying that the roles they serve aren't very important, when its the complete opposite; their roles are key to the game
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 08:08:00 - [17] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: If every ship put into Eve was required to fill a needed role, there wouldn't be any ships in Eve, and their certainly wouldn't be capitals. Ships are features of Eve, not necessities and role fillers. . This is the relevant part where you are mistaken. You're right. No roles are "needed." But, ships nonetheless have roles. They fill a purpose that was otherwise not filled. Ships are not just "shiny features" of Eve. They are literally the core components of Eve. Ships need to have roles in order to fit into the game. Now, answer my question. What role does the propose ship fill? How does it fit into the game besides "it'd be cool if..." What role is missing that this ship would fill?
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 08:31:00 - [18] - Quote Its like talking to a wall with you... Okay. I'll post a thread tomorrow asking for a frigate that can use battleship guns and covert cloaks. Its a cool idea I think and it'd be fun to have.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 08:35:00 - [19] - Quote what role does the drake fill? cheap damage at long range, shield tanking ship; can also be used for close brawler engagements What role does the raven fill? meh, long range damage ship; needs work IMO Megathron? brawler, awesome damage, with microjumpdrives could open up a whole new doctrine Hyperion? needs work but does great damage; local tank bonus is kind of stupid Dominix? great drone boat, can use highs as utilities, i.e. neuts or RR Wait, how about the Abaddon? amazing tank and great damage; stay tuned for a new doctrine forming around this beast Caracal? long range, cheap anti frigate boat with AML Harbinger? I don't know much about this ship, admittedly Uhh, maybe Maelstrom? literally an entire doctrine around this ship right now, called alphafleet...high alpha damage at range would you like a lesson on any other ships?
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 08:35:00 - [20] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: lol... WOW....terrible terrible attempt. Those exist...they're called stealth bombers. lol...see...It sounded like a cool idea, and poof, there it is.... it was a joke bro notice they fill a role
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 08:37:00 - [21] - Quote And a really important role I might add. Stealth bombers can literally turn the tide of a battle. Again, they have a role. Answer my question: what role does the proposed ship fill that is currently missing in eve?
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 08:51:00 - [22] - Quote :psyduck:
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 08:51:00 - [23] - Quote You literally just don't get it.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 08:54:00 - [24] - Quote Ship "designs" as you put it push them into certain roles. You don't see people using a sacrilege as a sniping ship do you? Yes, T2 ships are the "specialized" role ships. But that doesn't mean other ships don't fit roles within the game based on their "designs." Thats what the different ship bonuses do. They push ships toward various roles that we as players come up with based on these designs. Now tell me, what "design" does this proposed ship fill?
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 08:55:00 - [25] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: The dominix style t1 drone boat, only more drone focused, high sec POS and/or close range heavy immobile logistics, or a heavy tank command ship(limited to on grid bonuses) The problem with this, is that you are essentially combining various roles that already exist into one ship.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 08:56:00 - [26] - Quote You know you're being more of a troll than I am right? You've literally become what you dislike. How's it feel?
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 09:02:00 - [27] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: T1 ships don't fill certain roles, they're specifically designed not to fill a specific role. The different ships bonuses are designed as fun and cool factor, but are also part of balancing a racial aspects, such as bonuses to target painters, neuts, webs, or jams. The design it fills is almost the same as the design you gave for the dominix, only more drone focused, like I said. They fill certain roles when put in combat. CCP balances their designs based on what roles they might fill. Destroyers are T1 and I'm pretty sure they are designed with bonuses to make them anti-frigate, which is a role, is it not? The griffin has ECM bonuses and is thus an ecm boat; pretty sure ECM ship is a role, is it not? The problem with the proposed ship is that its trying to fill a hole that doesn't exist.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 09:06:00 - [28] - Quote Precisely. Others have as well. Go back and look through the thread. Multiple people have said "what role does this ship fill?" And the question has yet to be answered. Randomly adding ships "for fun" is a horrible idea. Citation: titans.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2012.05.12 09:08:00 - [29] - Quote If you can tell me a viable role that this ship would fill that is otherwise missing in the game and would not imbalance anything in the game or lead to abuse because of its abilities, I would gladly support it.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2012.05.12 20:20:00 - [30] - Quote The problem with throwing ships into the game without some sort of desired role/purpose is the unforeseen side effects they may have on the game. Titans are probably the best example of this. Look at how they have been abused since their inception. This ship and any other ship needs a reason to exist and it needs to fit into the current scheme of ship balancing. You need to stop getting all damn defensive and assuming its a case of 'OMG HE JUST DOESNT WANT NEW THINGS IN THE GAME.' I'm all for new ships being added to the game, as long as they have a purpose and any potential imbalancing is accounted for (i.e. the ship has trade offs). Tier 3 bcs are a great example of this actually. They can use battleship weapons and move fairly quickly, but they are paper thin. There is a trade off for their awesomeness and thus they fit well into the current scheme of ship balancing. Where and how does this ship fit in?
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2012.05.12 20:36:00 - [31] - Quote Loius Woo wrote: But either way, this ship's ROLE is support. Remove the fighters and range bonus to remote reps and I'd agree with you. Fighters are a capital thing and bonus to remote rep range overshadows logistics, a specialized class. I'd almost be in favor of having a small corp hangar/ship maintenance bay similar to an orca. Perhaps a bonus to rep amount would suffice? edit: the corp hangar/ship bay would really help this thing as a wormhole/null sec support ship
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2012.05.12 20:39:00 - [32] - Quote Eh...the problem is that you're starting to step on the toes of command ships (I know there's no link for drones, but the principle is the same). I'd almost be in favor of a cpu reduction for warfare links but bonus to them is probably a bad idea.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2012.05.12 20:50:00 - [33] - Quote As far as drones go, the most I'd be okay with is a +1 drone per level. Definitely high sensor strength akin to carriers. Scan resolution...I don't know. Is this going to be a racial ship? What's the tank like?
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2012.05.12 20:55:00 - [34] - Quote The problem with giving them fighters is the amount of damage fighters can dish out. This would make the ship provide more DPS than it should and it would cease to be simply a "subcap support ship." It would be a subcap support ship with considerable damage as well.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2012.05.12 21:11:00 - [35] - Quote To be fair: fighters don't take bonuses from any of the skills. Really though, there's no advantage to having fighters beyond being able to assign/have them warp around. And I don't think this ship should be capable of doing this.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2012.05.12 21:33:00 - [36] - Quote It should be limited to 5 heavy drones really. And protip Joe: nobody who is competent uses drone control units in combat as you implied. Sorry but this ship just shouldn't be a damage dealer. As OP said, its a support ship and thus its damage potential should be limited. A large drone bay would be okay though. Ship bonuses, I could see including: remote rep amount based on race (shield for minmatar/caldari; armor for gallente/amarr a resist bonus for tanking cpu reduction for warfare link modules drone control range bonus (10km per level)
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2012.05.12 21:55:00 - [37] - Quote Loius Woo wrote: 10% Bonus to drone damage while assigned, per level 10% Bonus to Drone HP while assigned, per level. And I say allow +1 drone per level. As for fighters, they are NOT that large (a Einherji is 23m long) they just take lots of drone bay space. Also, if fighters are restricted in which security systems they can be used then there is no worry about them being used in high sec. I could still support being able to have 5 fighters usable in null sec in the same way carriers are able to use them, only limited to 5 instead of 10+. Drone HP yes, Drone damage no. Drone HP and range control should be enough for a "support role." +1 drone per level, but limited to 125 bandwidth. (thus only 5 heavies). And you're missing my point on fighters. I don't like them being added to this because of the potential for assigning them. One could then sit safely somewhere and provide damage. I don't like this potential at all.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2012.05.12 22:00:00 - [38] - Quote I'm not sure but I'm sure the limitation could be made regardless. The question is, why do you want fighters anyway? Those things are also extremely expensive and without the ability to assign/follow in warp, you are pretty much better off using heavies/sentries anyway and not having the isk liability that comes with fighters.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 259	Posted - 2012.05.12 22:25:00 - [39] - Quote 25% the size of a carrier for both corp hangar and ship bay.
XXSketchxx Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 260	Posted - 2012.05.13 03:07:00 - [40] - Quote Katrina Oniseki wrote: I am a simple gamer. Just make it look cool and big and a suitable choice for overcompensation with lots of pretty blinkies and details and spinny bits. I'll be happy. Yeah that worked well with titans.

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