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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2009.05.09 10:07:00 -
[1]
What about a smaller version of the carrier that can launch a far more moddest ammount of fighters/light fighters with it's own direct fire weapons, a battle carrier if you will.
Limited Jump range but also able to move and gate independantly, perhaps as a escort role to BO ships.
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4THELULZ
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Posted - 2009.05.09 11:31:00 -
[2]
So basically you want a Sin with fighter drones.
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aldarrin
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Posted - 2009.05.09 11:38:00 -
[3]
I think that the T2 battleships are as close as you'll get to that. They more or less serve as the middle ground (skill progression wise) between T1 battleships and capital ships.
Although, jump freighters did pave the way to T2 cap ship production.
Personally, I'd rather see more diversity in cap ships than more of the same. We've got gank from Dreads, logistics for carriers / motherships, ECM from motherships, and JP and DD from Titans. I'd like to see ships with specialties in other forms of electronic warfare, cap warfare, and "nano" cap ships. Ships that can damp down carriers so they can't rep, ships that can drain a dreads cap so it's tank fails, a ship that can avoid Dread's siege damage with MWD, a ship that can web 99%, a ship that can paint a BS to cap ship resolution. Now that would be fun (for me at least). -- Flame on. |
Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:09:00 -
[4]
No I was thinking more of a smaller more mobile battlecarrier, perhaps as a mid point for those training for capitals that's more readily suited to small/mid fleet operations.
One of the things that's always been very limiting about all jump ships is their utter dependance on cyno's, before pos jump jammers were in game there was a call for it but now not so much I think.
The other being carriers other than their fighters which can be nullified a carrier was just a sitting brick.
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Lianoras
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:10:00 -
[5]
Problem is there really isn't that much damage difference between a battleship and a carrier. Where would the escort carrier fit in?
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar OVERLOAD. Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:36:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 09/05/2009 20:37:06 Actually, I can see escort carriers more along the lines of having a ship maintenance bay and a light drone capability, i.e. like 800-1k m¦ bay, 100 m¦ bandwidth with ability to launch 10 drones at lvl5 ship skill, no turrets or missiles.
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:53:00 -
[7]
First of all there is Features and Ideas Discussion forum for such threads...
I don't know what about BOs... But if it would be just BS with 5 Fighters it would be nice idea especially for that Dominix agentrunners... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
HellSpeed
Gallente Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2009.05.09 21:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Trimutius III First of all there is Features and Ideas Discussion forum for such threads...
I don't know what about BOs... But if it would be just BS with 5 Fighters it would be nice idea especially for that Dominix agentrunners...
I was just thinking about a BS with 5 fighters. :) But not that fugly Domi hull again. On the other hand, why are you reading my signature? |
Lewyrus
Jugis Modo Utopia Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.05.09 22:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Trimutius III First of all there is Features and Ideas Discussion forum for such threads...
This. About in every four months, someone comes up with the escort carrier idea.
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RabbitofDoom
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Posted - 2009.05.10 01:03:00 -
[10]
If you make it a sub capital ship it could have a job. Considering that eve 0.0 wars start to look very much like a ww1 trench warfare with DD instead of machine gun. Subcapital carriers and possibly subcapital battleships that could use a normal gate could work like a ww1 tanks.
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HellSpeed
Gallente Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2009.05.11 11:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lewyrus
Originally by: Trimutius III First of all there is Features and Ideas Discussion forum for such threads...
This. About in every four months, someone comes up with the escort carrier idea.
More often than that I'd say. That's a sign that they're needed/wanted and have to be implemented (eventuallyÖ). On the other hand, why are you reading my signature? |
Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2009.05.11 14:42:00 -
[12]
Escort Dread would probably be a better option IMHO. Hull cost/jump range similar to a carrier, similar or slightly weaker base tank than a 'normal' dread along with decreased offensive capability (either fewer capital weapons with siege or more capital weapons without siege). This would give you the option of letting your capital fleet have longer legs (i.e. can keep pace with your carrier fleet) or maintain some sort of dread POS bashing force at a lower cost while still leaving regular dreads for shorter range or higher firepower at a higher cost. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2009.05.11 21:39:00 -
[13]
Moved to Features & Ideas.
Mitnal Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Fubumaki
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.05.11 22:02:00 -
[14]
Personally, I'd like to see a slight variation on this, either implemented as the t2 version of the tier 3 bs, or an entirely separate intermediate class between BS and capitals (leaning towards the tier 3 bs hull, just because it would get implemented faster).
Basic idea would be a heavy subcapital combat ship with jump drive capability and significantly boosted BS weaponry (or fighters if you wanna go down that road). You could make the argument for the parallelism between HACs/Recons and this new class of ship/Black Ops.
I'm just preparing my impromptu remarks. |
Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.11 22:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: HellSpeed
Originally by: Trimutius III First of all there is Features and Ideas Discussion forum for such threads...
I don't know what about BOs... But if it would be just BS with 5 Fighters it would be nice idea especially for that Dominix agentrunners...
I was just thinking about a BS with 5 fighters. :) But not that fugly Domi hull again.
I mean Domi pilots are usually have appropriate skills. I wasn't talking about hull... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
TedJanitor
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Posted - 2009.05.11 22:56:00 -
[16]
I'm not sure about this idea, I think if allowed in highsec would be overused by mission runners... But I think a subcapital attack ship might be helpful - more plentiful than titans and such, more flexible than dreads - could be useful, I do approve, as long as sec allowances are controlled properly, to stop massive multi-subcapital pos attack, which would more or less destroy the safety that highsec supposedly offers
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.11 23:09:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Trimutius III on 11/05/2009 23:10:59
Originally by: TedJanitor I'm not sure about this idea, I think if allowed in highsec would be overused by mission runners... But I think a subcapital attack ship might be helpful - more plentiful than titans and such, more flexible than dreads - could be useful, I do approve, as long as sec allowances are controlled properly, to stop massive multi-subcapital pos attack, which would more or less destroy the safety that highsec supposedly offers
What are u talking about? First of all 5 fighters do only 500 DPS plus this damage is split between 2 damage types... Raven Navy issue is doing 525 DPS if have 3 Ballistic Controls... (with t2 launchers and t2 ballistic controls, i'm not talking about even navy fitting)
So i can't see how it will help to agentrunners, especially if this ships would have any hardpoints like carriers...
about POS warfare i don't even want to talk... Fighters cannot even attack control tower...
And about to big drone bay... This issue could be solved... CCP said once something about Fighters bay (special bay only for fighters) so then such ship could not be even used like a ship with many drones...
So i can't understand how this could be a cheat in highsecs?
P.S. But if ship would have it's own firepower then yes it would be overpowered for highsecs... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2009.05.12 02:30:00 -
[18]
What I'm thinking of is a Sub Captial group of ships mid point in the cap ships tree, that are precluded from mission running cept in some circumstances, perhaps tailored in some fashion to WH space as a possibility, with some jump ability but also with the ability to gate normally and in the instance of a escort carrier ship with limited fighters but with direct fire capability.
Good for players training for caps and those already have trained them but more readily lend themselves to combat due to their increased all round firepower and durability and manouverability, but more of a mid point between BS's (what I'd call Hvy cruiser now) and actual capital ships.
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TedJanitor
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Posted - 2009.05.12 11:10:00 -
[19]
I was more thinking of how it could be used for attrition in POS warfare, where the guns cycle randomly without a gunner - A few of them could just be used to soak up damage while the BS's get occasional glancing hits
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Prt Scr
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Posted - 2009.05.12 11:41:00 -
[20]
a t2 orca, where the ore hold is converted to drone bay and the hanger expanded? And a whole replacement of the ship bonuses
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aldarrin
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Posted - 2009.05.13 09:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Trimutius III
First of all 5 fighters do only 500 DPS plus this damage is split between 2 damage types... Raven Navy issue is doing 525 DPS if have 3 Ballistic Controls... (with t2 launchers and t2 ballistic controls, i'm not talking about even navy fitting)
It depends on the tank, RR ability, and the rats. If you lose missiles to the rats' defenders, then you aren't doing 525 dps.
A better comparison would be to the Domi. You are getting and extra 25 dps with maxed skills. That's with Ogres. 5 x Templars > 5 Praeter IIs. Bonus if the local tank is stronger. Possibly being able to RR the fighters (and more EHP on them) is a double bonus.
It's not the ideal mission running ship, but it'd likely be a feasible one. Especially when T2 BS are more expensive than carriers (build prices, not necessarily market). So to make it cost effect for its intended role. So it have to be substantially cheaper than a marauder. -- Flame on. |
Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.13 10:34:00 -
[22]
actually would be usefull for sleeper ratting. Make it wigh 3x normal BS wight. Hm... |
Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.13 10:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: aldarrin
Originally by: Trimutius III
First of all 5 fighters do only 500 DPS plus this damage is split between 2 damage types... Raven Navy issue is doing 525 DPS if have 3 Ballistic Controls... (with t2 launchers and t2 ballistic controls, i'm not talking about even navy fitting)
It depends on the tank, RR ability, and the rats. If you lose missiles to the rats' defenders, then you aren't doing 525 dps.
A better comparison would be to the Domi. You are getting and extra 25 dps with maxed skills. That's with Ogres. 5 x Templars > 5 Praeter IIs. Bonus if the local tank is stronger. Possibly being able to RR the fighters (and more EHP on them) is a double bonus.
It's not the ideal mission running ship, but it'd likely be a feasible one. Especially when T2 BS are more expensive than carriers (build prices, not necessarily market). So to make it cost effect for its intended role. So it have to be substantially cheaper than a marauder.
I see... But this ships may for example not fit through acceleration gates, and there is not so many missions without gates. So they cannot be used there well then... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Tavren Darknigh
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Posted - 2009.05.27 10:33:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Tavren Darknigh on 27/05/2009 10:33:09 bored and got to thinking about how to make an escort/light carrier work. I agree it should be a battle cruiser class ship and true to the carrier form have no weapons beside the Drones. Instead of a straight forward BC with drone bay/bandwidth, and bonuses to launch 10 ogre 2's why not have it be a true "escort" ship and give it bonuses to sentry and EW drones.
IMO an escort ship shouldn't be powerful enough to completely stop a hostile force on its own but subdue them long enough for the cavalry to arrive but still have the firepower to play a role in fleet engagements. For example: (Note: the numbers on bonuses are purely hypothetical and may be way to big or way to low for the purposes of balance, please enjoy the show)
Escort Carrier T2 Battlecruiser
Role: Give close EW and sentry support for logistic and medium Strike fleets.
Minmatar Chassis: Hurricane
High:4 Mid: 5 Low: 7 Launcher: 0 Turret: 0 Rig: 3
Drone Capacity: 1000 m3 Drone Bandwidth: 250 Mbit/sec
Bonuses: Can Deploy 1 additional Drone per level 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules 20% increase to EW drone strength per level 15% increase to TP drone range and falloff multiplier per level 15% increase to SD drone range bonus per level 10% bonus to range and 5% bonus to damage for sentry drones per level
Might be a bit much but I know id love to have one of these in my fleet as short/long range or light EW support. True to being a non cov-ops sub capital it can not jump, it can go through stargates (duh) and it can operate in empire space. the limit 1 warfare link will give it some use in a well organized fleet.
I was toying with the idea of maybe changing the TP drone bonus to a web drone bonus for some ceptor defense but only having heavy drones for web drones would make it pointless. Maybe a bonus to the races dominant tank rep drones.
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Hayaishi
Gallente Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.05.27 12:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tavren Darknigh Edited by: Tavren Darknigh on 27/05/2009 10:33:09 bored and got to thinking about how to make an escort/light carrier work. I agree it should be a battle cruiser class ship and true to the carrier form have no weapons beside the Drones. Instead of a straight forward BC with drone bay/bandwidth, and bonuses to launch 10 ogre 2's why not have it be a true "escort" ship and give it bonuses to sentry and EW drones.
IMO an escort ship shouldn't be powerful enough to completely stop a hostile force on its own but subdue them long enough for the cavalry to arrive but still have the firepower to play a role in fleet engagements. For example: (Note: the numbers on bonuses are purely hypothetical and may be way to big or way to low for the purposes of balance, please enjoy the show)
Escort Carrier T2 Battlecruiser
Role: Give close EW and sentry support for logistic and medium Strike fleets.
Minmatar Chassis: Hurricane
High:4 Mid: 5 Low: 7 Launcher: 0 Turret: 0 Rig: 3
Drone Capacity: 1000 m3 Drone Bandwidth: 250 Mbit/sec
Bonuses: Can Deploy 1 additional Drone per level 99% reduction in the CPU need of Warfare Link modules 20% increase to EW drone strength per level 15% increase to TP drone range and falloff multiplier per level 15% increase to SD drone range bonus per level 10% bonus to range and 5% bonus to damage for sentry drones per level
Might be a bit much but I know id love to have one of these in my fleet as short/long range or light EW support. True to being a non cov-ops sub capital it can not jump, it can go through stargates (duh) and it can operate in empire space. the limit 1 warfare link will give it some use in a well organized fleet.
I was toying with the idea of maybe changing the TP drone bonus to a web drone bonus for some ceptor defense but only having heavy drones for web drones would make it pointless. Maybe a bonus to the races dominant tank rep drones.
no.
the teir 3 BSs should get this role tbh. although the only tier 3 BS i see visually fitting to this role is a hyperion. so, maybe not.
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Frues Malak
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Posted - 2009.06.28 22:54:00 -
[26]
as chief drone 'ho for the now defunct Lazzy boy industries, i support a USEFULDrone Boat that is bigger than a Vexor/Arbitrator and not quite as redundant (or Fugly) as a domi |
AtheistOfDoom
Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.06.29 01:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Frues Malak as chief drone 'ho for the now defunct Lazzy boy industries, i support a USEFULDrone Boat that is bigger than a Vexor/Arbitrator and not quite as redundant (or Fugly) as a domi
Myrmidon. |
Robert0288
Caldari g guild Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.06.29 07:06:00 -
[28]
BCs already have their t2 counterpart and don't need them to turn into a slightly better eos. Take the T3 BS extend the hull a little bit and make it a bit fatter giving it the immage of a jury rigged drone ***** boat.
Bonus to racial e-war drones. Gallente bonus 10% to web drones and SD drones, Amar neut 7.5% /TD 10% , Caldari 10% to ECM strength. Mini 10% to TP strength and 2.5% to all of the other ones, because TP drones are kinda lame,
Due to the 'smaller' version of its electronic systems or w/e it can't assign fighters to people off grid. These are assualt/escort carriers, not full fledged hug POS shields asign drones ships which would defeat the purpose of sticking it on a BS hull.
I would like them to be able to use cyno fields but that might be a little bit much. Small corprate hanger, big enough for ammo and a few cap boosters for gang mates would be nice 250 to 500 m3?
4-ish high slots, maybe a single weapon hardpoint; leaves you with room for your neut/SB/logistics stuff without taking over the existing role filled by logistics cruisers. |
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