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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.09 10:56:00 -
[1]
0. Preamble
My aim in creating this thread is to provide a standard reference for people asking how best to use freighters. It is intended to be an exhaustive guide covering the uses of these ships and the profitability of doing so, or lack thereof.
1. TLDR version: what not to do
Do not purchase a freighter before you've worked out what you're going to do with it. Once you've found something worthwhile, make sure you'll have enough isk left over after buying your freighter. You will typically need several hundred million isk.
2. Alternatives to purchasing a freighter A freighter is an expensive purchase; you should avoid buying one until you have exhausted all other options. Here are some that may be relevant:
- Consider trading in goods that have a smaller volume, so that you can haul them to market using a much cheaper ship.
- Consider using courier contracts, market buy orders or WTB contracts to get your cargo to where it is needed, especially if you only occasionally need to move a significant volume of goods.
- Have a look through the sell orders forum for people offering freight services.
--- 20:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.09 10:57:00 -
[2]
Reserved --- 20:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.09 11:05:00 -
[3]
No, no, no! Buy frieghters, do not think first, just buy them! I care not if you use it as an expensive hangar ornament, just buy!
But more seriously, good work Kazuo.
The rules I'd work with are:
1. When you need to buy a freighter you will know it, there will be no doubt in your mind. Before that time, use something else or someone else.
2. Value your time and remember that someone else moving your stuff in a freighter for you is generally much better. Compare the cost of outsourcing that hauling to the value to be gained by spending the time you would spend hauling doing something else. Either value the money you could be making doing something more profitable or value the fun you could be having doing something more enjoyable.
3. Freighters lock up a billion isk of your money. It has to deliver a return on that too.
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Heyte
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Posted - 2009.05.09 12:36:00 -
[4]
Obviously, freighters are good if you've got a lot of crap in high volume all the time to get around.
Of course, one cannot compare time to money, because the time involved in shipping is often compareable to the price it costs to ship that amount of volume in a contract. As a trader, I'd instead compare the price of freightering to contract shipping.
Most freighters tend to charge by distance rather then volume, so even if your volume takes up their entire load, the cost remains the same, which is in effect good.
As for jump freighters, they're even more useless, unless you've got this corp deal that crosses regions or whatever.
Lastly, it's good to keep all of your items in one place if you want them shipped by a freighter... that should also be a given, although it can be problematic to make it so without contracts, unless you calculate the costs - associate distance with volume etc., in the case that distance costs more then actually just contracting everything to the nearest system and then hiring a freighter to get it all to your place of trade/manufacturing.
Transport ships don't really seem profitable except for long distance couriers really.
Hope that ramble was useful at all.
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RJ Nobel
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:22:00 -
[5]
In before teh glue?
Thanks for the guide Kazuo.
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Khalina Drakona
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:37:00 -
[6]
Weighing in to support the HAVE A PLAN FIRST before you buy a freighter. I've had a providence sitting idle for a couple of months now.
I keep deluding myself saying that I'll have a use for it when I get x trade route up and running or what not. I've used it all of once in the 4-5 months that I've had it.
I'm just now looking at using it for an actual trade route...only problem is margin trading in the target system is probably going to end up being more profitable than buying remotely and then moving it to the hub.
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PublicRelations Kwint
Lothian Quay Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:53:00 -
[7]
A freighter is a tool. If you don't have a need for it, don't buy it.
You do not buy a nail-gun and then ask, how can this make me money? You establish a business replacing shingles then you realize you buy a nail-gun. A freighter is no different.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:16:00 -
[8]
Great post Kazuo! |
Black Mack
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Posted - 2009.05.10 02:16:00 -
[9]
This is all well and good, but can someone just tell me how to make money using a freighter? I'm thinking about starting a new thread about it called "Freighter: is it worth it!?"
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Locin WeEda
Gallente Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2009.05.10 02:22:00 -
[10]
Some very good advice here, Kazuo. Red Frog Freight Service
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glas mir
Reaction Scientific
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Posted - 2009.05.10 04:18:00 -
[11]
you didn't include my favorite answer:
Question: What is the fastest way to make isk with a freighter? Answer: Sell it!
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2009.05.10 07:04:00 -
[12]
I disagree 100% with this thread. Just like everyone should own a shovel even though they don't dig holes, I believe everyone should own a freighter. It is every EVE citizen's right to own a freighter. And anyone interested in owning one for cheaper than Jita should contact a certain sexy looking freighter manufacturer with the initials AC155.
Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
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EVEHelpisSeriousBusiness
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Posted - 2009.05.10 11:08:00 -
[13]
Edited by: EVEHel****eriousBusiness on 10/05/2009 11:09:50
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 I disagree 100% with this thread. Just like everyone should own a shovel even though they don't dig holes, I believe everyone should own a freighter. It is every EVE citizen's right to own a freighter. And anyone interested in owning one for cheaper than Jita should contact a certain sexy looking freighter manufacturer with the initials AC155.
I'm going to go one further and state that it's every EVE citizen's DUTY to own a freighter. One is fine, but you really owe it to your peers to buy one of each type.
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.10 15:22:00 -
[14]
i always so wanted to have Providence. I mean, that ship is sexy! so this is what i did. i bought it, took it for a ride, and then sold it. even made a profit. but, yeah, kudos to Kazuo on explaining practical use.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2009.05.11 05:59:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Shadarle on 11/05/2009 05:59:24 I have freighters on three characters.
I barely ever use any of them and I deal in billions upon billions of ISK worth of goods.
If you need a freighter all the time then you are in the very tiny minority.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.11 09:35:00 -
[16]
I think it goes without saying that if you're rich enough not to care about the cost of a freighter or two, you're not one of the people this thread is aimed at. I just have the one freighter myself, and it's mostly for convenience. --- 20:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.11 12:27:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 11/05/2009 12:28:19 I still don't have a freighter but I think I'll buy one.
I own a (roaming, for reasons I won't disclose) small mining operation, which can produce some millions minerals a day, well away off the stations where my standing is high enough to have a zero cost refining.
As of now, I have either to use a rigged indy / orca and lose up to 5% in refining fees because I can't really use it to go farter than 2 systems off than where I am mining (it won't keep up with the incoming mineral "stream"). 5% over 20M trit @4 ISK pu is 4M loss a day.
Even accepting the loss, I have now about 11 runs to a trade hub (to sell the trit), sometimes the nearest system where it's worth selling anything is 6+ warps away, for about 66 jumps per day.
Finally, sometimes I need to "move home" or to buy large turrets (often they get sold for below reproccessed minerals value) and a freigther could carry lots of them while roaming thru those 15 systems where I bought some piece here, some there (the lowest cost).
So, maybe by buying a freigther I'll never cover the costs again but it would make my life soo better.
Sure, I could do like everyone else and go bore myself in L4 missions but then what's a game about, when you are forced to do something visibly more convenient and FOTM but you don't find it fun?
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eVaLF
Delivery Luck
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Posted - 2009.05.11 13:02:00 -
[18]
Freighters are garbage and have zero use don't buy them.
BTW - Offering Hauling and POS Fuel Delivery Service. -----
POS FUEL DELIVERY & HIGH & LOW SEC FREIGHTER SERVICES |
Kal London
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Posted - 2009.05.11 13:10:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Kal London on 11/05/2009 13:12:46 Very nice article. Probably had enough after my recent thread: Piloting a Freighter - What should I expect? I recommend this gets stickied or put on evelopedia.
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Subzero1977A
Caldari Skill Level Six Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.12 14:21:00 -
[20]
Cache cleared. |
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.12 21:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes i always so wanted to have Providence. I mean, that ship is sexy! so this is what i did. i bought it, took it for a ride, and then sold it. even made a profit. but, yeah, kudos to Kazuo on explaining practical use.
For all those who have similar feelings, I strongly recommend the use of the ship preview screen prior to considering a purchase. --- 20:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.12 21:44:00 -
[22]
I like to mine. No seriously, I really enjoy it! I also mine a LOT.
I kept telling my friend that I needed a freighter. He kept telling me that freighters were boring and not to waste time or SP on training for one.
My friend later offered to help me move some of my minerals to market with his Orca, as I'd been doing lots of runs in 2 industrials, and spending more time hauling than mining.
He was really surprised when I filled every last m3 of his cargo rigged Orca... 3 times over. After the 30th or so jump on the second trip he tell me, "Ya, you really DO need to get yourself a freighter!"
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Ferkimer Burns
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.05.13 21:11:00 -
[23]
If you want to carry lots of stuff you need a freighter.
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RJ Nobel
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Posted - 2009.05.14 03:00:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ferkimer Burns If you want to carry lots of stuff you need a freighter.
Thread was good. Thread is now great.
WTB glue!
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Lord Windu
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.14 04:23:00 -
[25]
tl;dr
However from the bit's I did see I havethis to say:
If you plan on playing on Eve for a long period of time then a Freighter is most likely of use. As for gain/loss, it's a game ffs, buy the big ship and fly it.
~ ☺ A Kirra Liu Presentation. Will give cyber for GTC ☺ |
zzbooks
Fighting Cats
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Posted - 2009.05.14 13:45:00 -
[26]
"most people won't be interested in a cargo worth less than about 5bn isk."
I would not put more than 1.5bil in one, especially for afk-hauling
An Orca is better than a freighter unless you are moving low value stuff like POS fuel.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:06:00 -
[27]
The Orca is more secure for hauling large quantities of high-end minerals or valuable modules, because the contents of its corp hangar array are invisible to cargo scanners. Someone would have to know about your cargo in advance in order for a strike to be worthwhile. This excludes the vast majority of gankers, who are simple opportunists. I'm not even sure whether its possible for items in a corp hangar to drop when a ship is destroyed - any comment? --- 20:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:09:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro The Orca is more secure for hauling large quantities of high-end minerals or valuable modules, because the contents of its corp hangar array are invisible to cargo scanners. Someone would have to know about your cargo in advance in order for a strike to be worthwhile. This excludes the vast majority of gankers, who are simple opportunists. I'm not even sure whether its possible for items in a corp hangar to drop when a ship is destroyed - any comment?
As of this past Tuesday night, they still go poof instantly. |
Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro The Orca is more secure for hauling large quantities of high-end minerals or valuable modules, because the contents of its corp hangar array are invisible to cargo scanners. Someone would have to know about your cargo in advance in order for a strike to be worthwhile. This excludes the vast majority of gankers, who are simple opportunists. I'm not even sure whether its possible for items in a corp hangar to drop when a ship is destroyed - any comment?
As of this past Tuesday night, they still go poof instantly.
Confirmed.
Orca's are rarely worth the bother as the best loot will not drop. In low-sec I pop them anyway, obviously, for no better reason than they are there and in point range... loot content is a bonus. Generally, I find high-end mission running ships are a better gank oppertunity than haulers (of any size) as their loot drops are far superior and their movements tend to be more short distance back-and-forth so they are easier to quietly scan, tail, surround and gank. Also, afk haulers produce less carebear tears in local than a faction fit Nightmare or Marauder... it's the carebear tears that keep my skin so soft and supple dispite my advancing years.
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