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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:32:00 -
[1]
Just like the title says...
Dear CCP devs,
How much bloody more time do you really need in order to realize that you have dropped the ball HARD on the economic side with your wormhole space site spawn and amount rates, useful loot and salvage drop rates, gas volumes (so gas harvesting speed), T3 reverse engineering chances and its "can't pick jack" mechanics or just the number of units needed to manufacture T3 hulls and subsystems, with the much-too-fast wormhole decay rates and creepy mass allowance thingy ?
If the mining system is a good litmus test, I'd probably have to say "at least two or three years, IF EVER".
So... seriously... how much time do you need ?
Isn't it yet glaringly obvious ?
I mean, you MUST have some statistics about number of people going into wormholes and overall T3-related drop rates, don't you ?
So... how about you look at them really, really hard and JUST THIS ONCE, instead of waiting a couple more months or years until almost nobody else gives a flying funk anymore about either T3 or wormhole space (about the same story as Factional Warfare), you do something NOW even if it is excessive in the OPPOSITE direction, and worry about reversing the "gah, wormholes too profitable, T3 way too cheap" effects later ?
This has been a post by Akita "too friggin' tired of imbecilic economic prenerfing" T.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Marlenus
Caldari
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:34:00 -
[2]
Another tired Akita T trollish rant.
Dude, you're often right. But the devs, they're people too, you know?
We're locked in a relationship with these people for as long as we plan to enjoy this game. There's no harm in treating them decent.
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Ironfleet.com |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:35:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Marlenus
Dude, you're often right. But the devs, they're people too, you know?
Hence the bolded last phrase.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Scott Ryder
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:44:00 -
[4]
This is one of the times ill agree with Akita T
I stopped even considering t3 ships, I couldnt give a flying **** about t3 production or even piloting a t3 ship.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:48:00 -
[5]
Funny, I run accross more people shopping for and even aquiring T3 ships on a regular basis these days. It seems to be moving along at just about the rate I expected. I don't want w-space to be as heavily used as k-space - explorers should be more rare than "normal" occupation pilots. I don't want to see T3 ships become as common as T1 or T2 ships and I don't want them to be as cheap or easy to aquire.
Things is good.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Armoured C
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:49:00 -
[6]
shouldnt doctor E or what ever his name be around some where ... i am pretty sure he is late on doing quartly newsletter report but a few times.
what is CCP paying him for ?
if you buy eve in a box from my game store i will give you isk (GAME , parkgate rotherham)
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Scott Ryder
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Funny, I run accross more people shopping for and even aquiring T3 ships on a regular basis these days. It seems to be moving along at just about the rate I expected. I don't want w-space to be as heavily used as k-space - explorers should be more rare than "normal" occupation pilots. I don't want to see T3 ships become as common as T1 or T2 ships and I don't want them to be as cheap or easy to aquire.
Things is good.
Well good thing you arent the majorety of eve, or the dev team.
I didnt expect them to be costing what they do really based on what was stated by the devs pre patch.
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Lt Angus
Caldari
End Game.
Dead End.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:03:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lt Angus on 09/05/2009 19:03:26
Biggest, best patch for ages wasted
please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Weight What
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:17:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Magic Dragonrider Tao Ball
The siege is lifted by typhus. A maiden spins yarn. Hastiness is rebuked.
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Annonymous, trading as "Weight What". |
JitaBum
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:21:00 -
[10]
I believe that CCP these days will only spend time on things that bring in new players. Maintenance or small additions to existing features won't bring in new players. Hence why there are still loads of bugs. Hence FW being seemingly abandoned. The economist, he served his purpose of piquing the interest of and attracting new players during the media blitz. The quarterly reports do not bring in new players either... not a priority.
Now T3 is in-game, it will probably receive only minimal attention.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:30:00 -
[11]
It'll take until the next patch until they'll change anything?
"Of course, Mistress Akita, we'll change everything *right now* if you so wish."
--------
Ideas for: Mining
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Abrazzar
It'll take until the next patch until they'll change anything?
"Of course, Mistress Akita, we'll change everything *right now* if you so wish."
Most of these things aren't really regulated by the client, so no (normal) patch deployment is needed — "only" a server update.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:48:00 -
[13]
I agree with Akita, thought it's expressed a bit too...directly... for my taste.
I'm starting to wonder what is worse: That whoever in CCP in charge of this didn't listen to feedback when Apocrypha was on Sisi, made design mistakes they already had to correct previously for invention, got so far off-target that the price 2 months later is about ten times what they aimed for? Or the refusal to date to aknowledge those mistakes and keep the community informed about the way they wanted to fix them?
Given's CCP apparent stance, you'd think T3 is only a minor gadget, not the core of it's biggest content expansion ever... not very professionnal...
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:49:00 -
[14]
Classic example of what akita is saying is the higher end gassites where you go from 30-80k m3 worth of gas.
Seeing as a perfectly set up T2 gasminer can do 9k m3/hour you have a situation where its just a horrible grind if you are few , or a long pointless grind if you are many.
And after the price drops it isnt exactly that profitable either. And due to the volume of gas not having a pos for shipping purposes makes it rather hopeless when you come to the C5/C6 core gas sites.
End result is that it isnt harvested a lot simply due to impracticality , this goes especially for the 10m3 per unit gases which cause a bottleneck in supplies.
"Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot."
- Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: JitaBum
I believe that CCP these days will only spend time on things that bring in new players. Maintenance or small additions to existing features won't bring in new players.
Yeah, to cite some recent examples:
Quantum Rise, which introduced the low-end, noob-friendly Orca, and which otherwise was primarily focused on killing the lag monster, to the great benefit of 0.0 PvP alliances, and also Jita.
Then of course QR, which introduced wormholes. More noob content there! Well I guess there was the "epic mission"
Most recent patch: rebalancing T2 cloaky ships (as primarily used by new players right?)
And so forth.
tl;dr:
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shadowsword
I agree with Akita, thought it's expressed a bit too...directly... for my taste.
The time for subtleties has long passed, it was time for a bigger hammer 
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Valorous Bob
TARSHISH FOUNDATION
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Shadowsword
I agree with Akita, thought it's expressed a bit too...directly... for my taste.
The time for subtleties has long passed, it was time for a bigger hammer
agreed.
_______________________________________________
Originally by: Governor LePetomane
You know who I can't stand? Explorers. Smug, invisible bastards. 
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Spurty
Caldari
Ore Mongers
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:20:00 -
[18]
I like the idea of t3, but can't see myself flying one, even if it were free, while there is the chance of losing any skills if the ship pops.
Not sure I'm all that uncommon in such a play style, might be why less people are bothering with it than CCP projected.
Low isk return doesn't bother me, high risk doesn't bother me (anymore), the chance at losing a level of a skill?
Terrifies me lol
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Thus I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:43:00 -
[19]
Give them time. Took about 2 years to nerf everything but Amarr to the point where they're the stars they currently are.
I figure in a year or so I'll round out whatever skills I'm still missing for end-to-end t3 production pipeline. It might be worthwhile by then.
I even plan to visit a wormhole on sisi later this year.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:52:00 -
[20]
Some of the stuff the OP writes in other threads is well written and interesting to read.
Then you get petulant patronising posts like this.
CCP will I'm sure make a decision in due time (i.e. not "me me me want want want" time) based on the many data metrics it has at its disposal.
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Marlenus
Caldari
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Akita T
The time for subtleties has long passed, it was time for a bigger hammer
Hammers are great for hitting things with. As tools of persuasion, they leave a lot to be desired.
I don't really understand people who want to pollute the best tool we've got for communicating with the devs, by making these forums maximally unpleasant for them to read.
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Ironfleet.com |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:52:00 -
[22]
we are too rich so they added the skill loss mechanic. so high t3 ship prices shouldn't be a concern
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:59:00 -
[23]
What worries me about T3 is that some of the builds that are possible are ridiculously OP. Right now the only thing keeping things sensible is the relatively high price of T3 ships & subsystems. If it came down in price massively, as it seems the OP demands, then nerfing them would have to rise up the agenda. Which of course would then only prompt more whines.
Frankly I'm glad they're erring on the side of caution with T3, having everyone in 80k+ EHP jack-of-all-trades cruisers right now surely wouldn't be "a good thing".
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JitaBum
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.05.09 21:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: JitaBum
I believe that CCP these days will only spend time on things that bring in new players. Maintenance or small additions to existing features won't bring in new players.
Yeah, to cite some recent examples:
Quantum Rise, which introduced the low-end, noob-friendly Orca, and which otherwise was primarily focused on killing the lag monster, to the great benefit of 0.0 PvP alliances, and also Jita.
Then of course QR, which introduced wormholes. More noob content there! Well I guess there was the "epic mission"
Most recent patch: rebalancing T2 cloaky ships (as primarily used by new players right?)
And so forth.
tl;dr:
Ah yes, Quantum Rise the much waited-for expansion for industrialists ultimately brought.... a ship. How about an overhaul of the S&I interface? Or some changes to mining? And WTF ever happened to the much vaunted storefronts? The reduction in lag was obviously welcomed by everyone, but many industrialists consider that expansion a huge let-down.
The whole concept of wormholes is obviously going to attract new players.
As for rebalancing issues, how long did it take CCP introduce a speed nerf? Only after thousands of players skilled for vagabonds/ishtars whatever. Or the falcon nerf? SoonÖ (After we've introduced this awesome new feature that we'll never finish)
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.05.09 21:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Scott Ryder
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Funny, I run accross more people shopping for and even aquiring T3 ships on a regular basis these days. It seems to be moving along at just about the rate I expected. I don't want w-space to be as heavily used as k-space - explorers should be more rare than "normal" occupation pilots. I don't want to see T3 ships become as common as T1 or T2 ships and I don't want them to be as cheap or easy to aquire.
Things is good.
Well good thing you arent the majorety of eve, or the dev team.
I didnt expect them to be costing what they do really based on what was stated by the devs pre patch.
I did.
~ Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 21:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Spurty
I like the idea of t3, but can't see myself flying one, even if it were free, while there is the chance of losing any skills if the ship pops.
Not sure I'm all that uncommon in such a play style, might be why less people are bothering with it than CCP projected.
Low isk return doesn't bother me, high risk doesn't bother me (anymore), the chance at losing a level of a skill?
Terrifies me lol
Jeez, a rank 1 skill to level 4 takes about 18 hours or something. I've lost more than that from falling asleep and forgetting to change a skill.
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Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.05.09 21:26:00 -
[27]
Hmm, I don't know, our corp is having fun and producing T3 items on a nice basis. What's the problem?
On a more serious note, stay in high-sec.
--Isaac
Isaac's Haul*Mart - Closed
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Eli Porter
Amarr
Broski Enterprises
Avarice.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 21:53:00 -
[28]
I believe they'll change it soon.
Market prices are not something you can properly predict before it hits live, and CCP needs a bit more time to see if the price hits a plateau before they make T3's easier to make.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.09 21:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Hmm, I don't know, our corp is having fun and producing T3 items on a nice basis. What's the problem?
The problem is, just how much ISK would you guys make if INSTEAD of going into the wormholes and bothering to reverse-engineer then build T3 you would just run L4 missions, invent T2 modules and manufacture T2 modules and a bunch of T1 stuff ?
The problem is it's not SIGNIFICANTLY more profitable (if at all) to do wormhole/T3 compared to plain old T1/T2. but it certainly is more risky and a pain in the posterior from a logistics standpoint.
The problem is that while YOU might be still having fun doing it, most people already aren't, and therefore the supply side isn't "evolving" as hoped... not just that, but in spite of decreasing T3 prices (and sharply decreasing wormhole profitability), T3 still isn't even remotely as popular (i.e. "in demand") as hoped for.
All of these things combined are the problem.
Or, in not so many words, like somebody else already said it : "what a waste of a perfectly good expansion".
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.09 21:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Eli Porter
Market prices are not something you can properly predict before it hits live
No, market price isn't something CCP is capable of predicting before it hits live. They have proven that time and time again.
On the other hand, truckloads of people over in "Market Discussions" and "Game Development Forum" were perfectly capable of properly predicting (within reasonable margins of error) the prices before it went live based solely on things observed on SiSi, and this without access to the much more extensive and precise data CCP devs could have actually accessed with a few keystrokes.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Captian Duffy
Darke Aurora
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Posted - 2009.05.09 22:18:00 -
[31]
couldnt care less about t3, but marauders and black ops need to be looked at... their price to benefit ratio is ridiculous. as it stands now, only pve carebears dare to use marauders.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.09 22:26:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/05/2009 22:27:36
That's a side-effect of "hey, let's make invention -4 ME by default so upgrading stuff from T1 to T2 will cost AT LEAST up to 50% more compared to doing it from a researched BPO" combined with "hey, let's make rare resources vital for T2 NOT scale with the growth of the population" on top of the obvious "so, let's also make this ship BARELY better than its T1 version yet require a truckload of stuff to upgrade anyway".
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Kaaii
Caldari
KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.09 23:15:00 -
[33]
tooAkita;dr
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there.
kieron
Director of Community Relations,
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2009.05.09 23:37:00 -
[34]
I rather doubt the general EVE population gives a damn about T3.
Spoken as a player with 20M isk to his name 
Finally, someone should make a really cool sig for me. |
Brolly
Caldari
Caldari State Inc.
People for Organised Peace
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Posted - 2009.05.09 23:45:00 -
[35]
I can't see much of a change on drop rates tbh, look at rigs, they still costs silly amounts for the useful ones.
Remember the bit about player driven content and all that jazz?, hell, if everyone had a T3 cruiser I bet you would be *****ing about how easy it is.
Why not get your corp into a WH, get what you need, manu your own T3?, it's not that hard if you really want to get it.
If no-one gives a flying funk about T3 and WH, why be so vocal?
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Armoured C
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.09 23:52:00 -
[36]
im waiting for t3 battleships =P
if you buy eve in a box from my game store i will give you isk (GAME , parkgate rotherham)
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.05.09 23:53:00 -
[37]
I have the dumb feeling ccp has it's head somewhere else these days.. as if 90% of the company isn't at work, but somewhere else.
I had the same feeling with a comicbook in the years, as the GDR broke and was taken over by GER.. the storyline just tumbled forward, but without the "soul" of the years before.
Nevertheless.. if the T3 mechanics stay as they are, it won't move a yota forward. Alone the RE process, where you can't select the subsys increases overall costs remarkable.
If there would be at least ANY information/hint from dev's about the status of T3 and HOW THEY SEE IT. But as there's nothing I only can think of the stuff I said above.. they seem distracted. How's Icelands economy btw? How's the status of CCP economically? Any probs on that side..? If I should place a bet, I would give this direction a shot.
Forge '07 on Sale
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Derus Grobb
Selectus Pravus Lupus
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Posted - 2009.05.10 00:25:00 -
[38]
OP just wants wormholes to be easier "ooooh they decay too fast", "oooh oooh the stuff is too rare", "oooh the gas takes up too much space".
Wormhole space is not nerfed into oblivion, it is fun and profitable
Eve is a game, why not try to enjoy it?
---
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Ryusoath Orillian
Minmatar
INDUSTIENCE
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Posted - 2009.05.10 01:28:00 -
[39]
i agree completely.
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Frug
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.10 01:32:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Captian Duffy
couldnt care less about t3, but marauders and black ops need to be looked at... their price to benefit ratio is ridiculous. as it stands now, only pve carebears dare to use marauders.
Marauders are just the Land Rovers of eve. Big, expensive pieces of junk that are outdone by more reasonable vehicles. I kinda like that.
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- - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Whisper/PrismX 4 emperor |
Treelox
Amarr
Seppuku Warriors
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Posted - 2009.05.10 01:34:00 -
[41]
Working exactly how I expected it to, after first reports of its implementation on SiSi and first dev blogs on the subject came out.
Just like the other last totally "new" concept that was introduced, broken from inception and totally ignored by the Devs, I think most of you refer to it as Faction Warfare.
--
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Mistral Sud
Minmatar
Black Box Corp.
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Posted - 2009.05.10 02:03:00 -
[42]
yip akita!
i did it, invested, had fun like hell,but if i would care about my wallet i wouldnt do it!
this prenerfing is something i never understand!
why castigate the people first in?
but its a thing i see at ccp for at least 2 years.
so good advice for new players is , do old content its really more profitable! 
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2009.05.10 02:14:00 -
[43]
We welcome your feedback, both positive and negative, as long as it is constructive. This was a rant, ie non constructive feedback.
Wrangler
Community Manager
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us
If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid. |
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