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Zechs Kushrenada
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.11 07:45:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zechs Kushrenada on 11/05/2009 07:54:59 Howdy pilots,
I was simply wondering if the favor still lies with the missiles in missions like it was say 1,5 years ago. I remember having 3 mil gunnery skills, not even a mil missiles and once I jumped into a drake missions went a whole lot easier then in my Prophecy. I was wondering if the difference is still that big, or if in the future I should be able to do lvl 4's in an Amarr BS. Flew in an Omen yesterday and that went just fine in lvl 2's. If it's like twice as hard to fly a mission in an Amarr ship compared to the all time fav Raven I don't mind, but when it becomes 10 times as hard..........
On a side note, can armor tanks tank just as good as shield tank (drake being able with my ****ty skills to passive tank between 400 and 500 dps)?
Hoping for some help; Regards,
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comrade captain
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Posted - 2009.05.11 08:10:00 -
[2]
As an ex missile user i can honestly say i way prefer guns, instant damage and you can pop frigs and small ships in 1 shot sometimes which isnt possible with missiles, torps etc. Once you know your guns optimal and falloff and tracking including what you can and cant hit and at what raneg you will enjoy guns more than missiles.
Guns just need a lot more sps to be effective, and tech 2 guns help a lot, i hope some of this helps.
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Shevar
Minmatar Target Practice incorporated
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Posted - 2009.05.11 08:37:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Zechs Kushrenada Edited by: Zechs Kushrenada on 11/05/2009 07:54:59 Howdy pilots,
I was simply wondering if the favor still lies with the missiles in missions like it was say 1,5 years ago. I remember having 3 mil gunnery skills, not even a mil missiles and once I jumped into a drake missions went a whole lot easier then in my Prophecy. I was wondering if the difference is still that big, or if in the future I should be able to do lvl 4's in an Amarr BS. Flew in an Omen yesterday and that went just fine in lvl 2's. If it's like twice as hard to fly a mission in an Amarr ship compared to the all time fav Raven I don't mind, but when it becomes 10 times as hard..........
On a side note, can armor tanks tank just as good as shield tank (drake being able with my ****ty skills to passive tank between 400 and 500 dps)?
Hoping for some help; Regards,
Depends on the NPC race.
Eg against sansha's lasers work better nowadays then missiles against gurista's and angels it's still missiles being better imho (although the skill requirements of missiles have gone up significantly). --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Forge Lag
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Posted - 2009.05.11 08:45:00 -
[4]
Missiles are very fine against sansha, also you do not have to care about TDs.
Guristas with their long range defender spam were always better with guns/sentries.
Nothing much changed in practise. Gap got narrower but missiles are still low SP universal solution. You just want TP now.
Also shield tanks tank much harder than armor.
Also missile users have valid pimp options at low SP; faction guns are crap.
Then again lasers, especially pulse lasers, are very convenient guns, head and shoulders above other guns in cases where they work.
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.05.11 09:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: comrade captain As an ex missile user i can honestly say i way prefer guns, instant damage and you can pop frigs and small ships in 1 shot sometimes which isnt possible with missiles, torps etc.
It's still possible to 1 shot many Frigs, Cruisers, all Destroyers and BCs with Missiles, but nowadays you need more skills and more Modules like TPs, Rigors, Flares to do that.
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TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.05.11 10:01:00 -
[6]
Missile require less SP.
Fighting Sansha with TD doesn't cause a headache.
Use any damage type (on raven).
No problem tracking close orbiting ships.
Hit far away targets without swapping ammo. (no issue for lasers, hybrids and projectiles make me cry)
However, defenders from guristas are annoying and you tend to have lower dps. One hitting cruisers and frigs with a navy apoc is fun.
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Zechs Kushrenada
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.11 10:14:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Zechs Kushrenada on 11/05/2009 10:15:02 Thanks for all the replies.
From what I read from all of your posts guns can work, so I'll stick to skilling my amarr capabillities again. Which means I can fly what I think are the best looking ships, not to mention I love the idea of lasers.
Thanks again all,
PS: one of you mentioned that indeed shield tanks can tank better then armor tanks. There must be some sort of advantage then if you're an armor tank....... right.......
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4THELULZ
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Posted - 2009.05.11 10:34:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zechs Kushrenada Edited by: Zechs Kushrenada on 11/05/2009 10:15:02
PS: one of you mentioned that indeed shield tanks can tank better then armor tanks. There must be some sort of advantage then if you're an armor tank....... right.......
For missions; not that I can really think of. I guess it's easier to tank against EM using enemies as armour but that's about it. Shields get passive recharge (ability to passive tank is a whole other issue) and don't use slots that would otherwise be for damage mods.
Having said that it's PVP where the advantages and disadvantages of both really start to show imho.
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Zechs Kushrenada
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.11 11:02:00 -
[9]
For missions; not that I can really think of. I guess it's easier to tank against EM using enemies as armour but that's about it. Shields get passive recharge (ability to passive tank is a whole other issue) and don't use slots that would otherwise be for damage mods.
Having said that it's PVP where the advantages and disadvantages of both really start to show imho.
Having said that one would come to think that the caldari aren't just fav's for missions because of the missiles, but also for shield tanking. Basically shield tanking is better then armor tanking, and missiles are easier to use then guns. Which altogether would mean that I'd still have to go back in my raven rather then flying an Amarr BS. Still... I'll give it a go; I just love amarr.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.05.11 12:19:00 -
[10]
Missles are better than hybrids and way better than projectiles for missions.
I dont fly Amarr.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.05.11 12:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zechs Kushrenada PS: one of you mentioned that indeed shield tanks can tank better then armor tanks. There must be some sort of advantage then if you're an armor tank....... right.......
Armour tanks are more cap efficient, unaffected by cap power relays and don't compete with cap rechargers for slots.
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Junko Togawa
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Posted - 2009.05.11 13:43:00 -
[12]
Of course, if you want to use lasers and shield tank, you can always go after a Nightmare.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2009.05.11 13:47:00 -
[13]
I wouldn't say the "pulverize" guns, but they will generally speaking be more useful against ALL NPC's than a single type of gun. That has, traditionally, been the strength of caldari PVE - not necessarily the best race for any particular type of NPC but instead content to be a solid second.
Amarr for example will absolutely shred ANY PVE rat weak against em/therm - even a well fit CNR cannot hope to stand against a lowly Apoc in this capacity.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.05.11 13:59:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Forge Lag Missiles are very fine against sansha, also you do not have to care about TDs.
Guristas with their long range defender spam were always better with guns/sentries.
Nothing much changed in practise. Gap got narrower but missiles are still low SP universal solution. You just want TP now.
Also shield tanks tank much harder than armor.
Also missile users have valid pimp options at low SP; faction guns are crap.
Then again lasers, especially pulse lasers, are very convenient guns, head and shoulders above other guns in cases where they work.
I'm not sure I agree with anything in this post except the first and last lines
It's like a bull**** sandwich!
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Zechs Kushrenada
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.11 18:14:00 -
[15]
Thanks again for all the replies. Nice to see that people are willing to help 'old' 'new' pilots.
Keep em coming -_^
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Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2009.05.11 18:25:00 -
[16]
I believe the answer to your query is "Drones"
Missiles are not better than guns, they are simply easier to use in many cases.
When I switched from a raven to a rail/pulse/arty Dominix (depending on mission), I never looked back. --
Don't harsh my mellow |
insidion
Caldari Last of the Technocracy
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Posted - 2009.05.11 18:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Wannabehero I believe the answer to your query is "Drones"
Missiles are not better than guns, they are simply easier to use in many cases.
When I switched from a raven to a rail/pulse/arty Dominix (depending on mission), I never looked back.
This is, without a doubt, a much greater return on your investment right now. If you absolutely love shields/missiles, then go nuts, but if you're looking for investing your SP without regret, definitely go this route and you can cross off some annoying requirements along the way.
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Mystafyre
Caldari Dark Materials Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.05.11 19:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Zechs Kushrenada Edited by: Zechs Kushrenada on 11/05/2009 07:54:59 Howdy pilots,
I was simply wondering if the favor still lies with the missiles in missions like it was say 1,5 years ago. I remember having 3 mil gunnery skills, not even a mil missiles and once I jumped into a drake missions went a whole lot easier then in my Prophecy. I was wondering if the difference is still that big, or if in the future I should be able to do lvl 4's in an Amarr BS. Flew in an Omen yesterday and that went just fine in lvl 2's. If it's like twice as hard to fly a mission in an Amarr ship compared to the all time fav Raven I don't mind, but when it becomes 10 times as hard..........
On a side note, can armor tanks tank just as good as shield tank (drake being able with my ****ty skills to passive tank between 400 and 500 dps)?
Hoping for some help; Regards,
Missiles still beat guns and drones 100-0 in missioning, just because their dps is stable from 0 km all to way maximum range. Guns and drones suffer from being out of the optimal.
Optimal mission running are done eather with Cruise CNR or Torp Golem.
Cruise CNR with permarunning double small plex shield boosters with double CN invufields to omnitank missions and mission spec hardeners to others is enough to tank all missions. Cruise CNR has better DPS than Cruise Golem due ROF bonus.
If you don't salvage or loot, CNR is your choice.
If you do salvage or loot, torp golem is your choice. Torp Golem with maxed out missile skills is of course harder to train, you want that 60 km with javelins.
Most relaxing and easiest skill wise is to go with cruise CNR. You don't need maxed out missile skills, althought better skills always is better.
You talked about Drake and million skillpoints in missiles vs Prophecy. Drake is the best there is for lvl3s. Ab+tp fitted drake smashes through all lvl3s faster than Ishtar.
Of course avoid Guristas missions, they are just bad. No point on taking them since you will be jammed, and jammed, and still jammed.
Mission specs at lvl 4 and T2 cruise missile skills in CNR is enough and short to train. If you pvp with gunships or droneships, and can rat instead of missioning, train missile specs to lvl3, thats enough for ratting. No need for BS V, BS III is enough.
For missioning you want BS V or atleast BS IV, to snatch more dps.
I say that train raven and t2 cruise launchers with missile specs at IV. Then continue amarr skills for pvp. I assume you don't have alt for money making so it's better for you to learn 'money making' skills as first.
Also shield tanking skills to lvl4 doesn't take long and double pith b-types or even a-types are cheap.
Of course missioning for amarr agents can be done in apoc/navy apoc/abaddon quite well, but still you lose against CNR in overall effiency. If you skip all missions except sanshas and blood raiders, then you will be faster than CNR. But you will eventually take too much standing hits or have to wait 4 hour periods from time to time.
Many people are flying Paladin, but that's far away from you. AWU V takes time and you simply don't want to strugle in missions with poor skills in it. It's expensive ship and it deserves good gunnery skills and tanking skills.
Paladin is great mission ship, no question. But against angels, guristas and serpentis it looses to missile boats.
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2009.05.11 20:33:00 -
[19]
In general, missiles will be:
1. Easier to use 2. Require fewer SPs invested 3. Less sensetive to differing NPC types (at least Raven hulls, Drakes have a Kinetic bonus)
However, if you have very good gunnery skills, can deal with multiple NPC types (i.e. find an agent that favors 1-2 types or have multiple gunboats around), and are willing to actively pay attention while you're missioning, guns will outperform missiles.
Notice, that's a lot of ifs so it's wasy to see why wo many casual missioners prefer to use missiles.
Having said that, drone ships provide the best of both worlds to some extent. You get flexible damage types, the potential for instant-hit damage (if you use sentries), AFK mission ability (set up a strong perma-tank, aggro a whole room, launch drones, go eat lunch), and the ability to supplement your drone DPS with guns or salvage as you go. The downside to drones is that they really require a lot of training (T2 of all types of combat drones, very good drone support skills) to get up there with missiles or guns in terms of performance. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2009.05.11 20:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mystafyre Missiles still beat guns and drones 100-0 in missioning, just because their dps is stable from 0 km all to way maximum range. Guns and drones suffer from being out of the optimal.
Optimal mission running are done eather with Cruise CNR or Torp Golem.
I can understand the benefit of a cruise CNR in terms of range, but to say a torp golem has better range than a gun boat or drone boat is completely wrong. Not to mention it is a marauder, which changes the playing field. All of the marauders are completely viable in the <60km range.
I don't know about you, but my drone range is 57km, 77km with a single Link Augmentor. --
Don't harsh my mellow |
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Zechs Kushrenada
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.11 22:01:00 -
[21]
Lets say I'm stubborn and still wish to fly amarr. The next step after my cruiser will be a BC. What would be best in what type of situation and why; a Prophecy, or the Harbinger?
Regards,
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Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.11 22:23:00 -
[22]
Btw guns >>> missiles even in pve. Ppl only use missiles because they are lazy.
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