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Davik Joran	Posted - 2004.09.04 20:54:00 - [1] Has anyone ever been turned down from a corporation for being disabled?I'm asking because it happened to me, and I'm a bit miffed about it. I've been fully deaf since the age of 14, but obviously that never stopped me from playing EVE.Now the other night I applied to a well known corporation in a well known, big alliance.I've been playing this game since beta.I'm a miner/producer with 17m skillpoints and I've made allot of friends in this game.I already knew allot of people in the corporation I was applying to, I considered them friends. Then i was turned down at the last moment, after 2 days of chit-chat and interviews I was turned down with a crappy excuse, and only after questioning a friend of mine in the corporation did I find out the true reason - my disability. If they turn down players on that basis it probably wasn't such a good corporation after all.I can see the complications with team speak and all but rather than "skirt around the issue" I'd rather have people tell it to my face.If anything, i came away feeling very patronized. My message to all CEO's and recruiting officers would be that if they ever have to deal with something like this - cut the crap and just come out with it. Anyway, discuss.
Davik Joran	Posted - 2004.09.04 20:54:00 - [2] Has anyone ever been turned down from a corporation for being disabled?I'm asking because it happened to me, and I'm a bit miffed about it. I've been fully deaf since the age of 14, but obviously that never stopped me from playing EVE.Now the other night I applied to a well known corporation in a well known, big alliance.I've been playing this game since beta.I'm a miner/producer with 17m skillpoints and I've made allot of friends in this game.I already knew allot of people in the corporation I was applying to, I considered them friends. Then i was turned down at the last moment, after 2 days of chit-chat and interviews I was turned down with a crappy excuse, and only after questioning a friend of mine in the corporation did I find out the true reason - my disability. If they turn down players on that basis it probably wasn't such a good corporation after all.I can see the complications with team speak and all but rather than "skirt around the issue" I'd rather have people tell it to my face.If anything, i came away feeling very patronized. My message to all CEO's and recruiting officers would be that if they ever have to deal with something like this - cut the crap and just come out with it. Anyway, discuss.
mightygerm	Posted - 2004.09.04 21:00:00 - [3] although it seems ****ty, if TS is a major part of the corp and you are'nt able to use it that is a valid reason imo.
mightygerm	Posted - 2004.09.04 21:00:00 - [4] although it seems ****ty, if TS is a major part of the corp and you are'nt able to use it that is a valid reason imo.
Burzon	Posted - 2004.09.04 21:03:00 - [5] This is a bit low, even if TS is a major component, as a miner and producer there is no real reason for having to use TS !! Burz CEO PAX Interstellar Services
Burzon	Posted - 2004.09.04 21:03:00 - [6] This is a bit low, even if TS is a major component, as a miner and producer there is no real reason for having to use TS !! Burz CEO PAX Interstellar Services
corporal hicks	Posted - 2004.09.04 21:19:00 - [7] WOW, thats unbelivable sorry that someone in this community would ever say anything like that, been a miner/producer character you dont even need to be on ts, am shocked mate. I know most Corps would be more than happy to have a skilled miner producer in there ranks cant belive they would not allow you just for this. Am shocked at the corp in question for using this as a excuse, shame on whoever they are. " Stay Frosty "
corporal hicks	Posted - 2004.09.04 21:19:00 - [8] WOW, thats unbelivable sorry that someone in this community would ever say anything like that, been a miner/producer character you dont even need to be on ts, am shocked mate. I know most Corps would be more than happy to have a skilled miner producer in there ranks cant belive they would not allow you just for this. Am shocked at the corp in question for using this as a excuse, shame on whoever they are. " Stay Frosty "
Darrin Tobruk	Posted - 2004.09.04 21:25:00 - [9] Yea, shame on whoever did it. I've spoken with a few of my corpmates on teamsound before, and while it's useful for pvp, I much prefer the keyboard the rest of the time. _______________________________________________ Eris Discordia: On the scale of funny and constructive it scores low, real low.
Darrin Tobruk	Posted - 2004.09.04 21:25:00 - [10] Yea, shame on whoever did it. I've spoken with a few of my corpmates on teamsound before, and while it's useful for pvp, I much prefer the keyboard the rest of the time. _______________________________________________ Eris Discordia: On the scale of funny and constructive it scores low, real low.
Katya Detia	Posted - 2004.09.04 21:39:00 - [11] Hey m8 Sorry to hear about this... :( If your looking for a home, look up bs.i Im sure we could sort something out. --------------------------- CEO: Black Sea Industries
Katya Detia	Posted - 2004.09.04 21:39:00 - [12] Hey m8 Sorry to hear about this... :( If your looking for a home, look up bs.i Im sure we could sort something out. --------------------------- CEO: Black Sea Industries
Jazz Bo	Posted - 2004.09.04 21:44:00 - [13] Hmm... I think the reason they gave you excuses is that they were embarrassed to say it out loud. Still, I don't quite understand. TS is absolutely necessary for large-scale PvP but a producer wouldn't need it. And I personally prefer to *** jokes on corp chat, not TS. Conclusion: apply to another, more open-minded corp. Originally by:** DB Preacher Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
Jazz Bo	Posted - 2004.09.04 21:44:00 - [14] Hmm... I think the reason they gave you excuses is that they were embarrassed to say it out loud. Still, I don't quite understand. TS is absolutely necessary for large-scale PvP but a producer wouldn't need it. And I personally prefer to *** jokes on corp chat, not TS. Conclusion: apply to another, more open-minded corp. Originally by:** DB Preacher Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
Celticjim	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:05:00 - [15] Wow...that's something. I know Old Farts have two members with disabilities, and my corp has one, but it hasn't stopped them nor the two corps. Give either Old Farts or us a shout if interested. More than happy to have you aboards. CJ
Celticjim	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:05:00 - [16] Wow...that's something. I know Old Farts have two members with disabilities, and my corp has one, but it hasn't stopped them nor the two corps. Give either Old Farts or us a shout if interested. More than happy to have you aboards. CJ
Damaclease	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:13:00 - [17] Reading your thread i was goin how teh hell do you disriminate. TS is only valid if the corp you want to join only uses TS (if thats the case it REALLY sux). Be positive there must be other corps that don't use TS and would be more suitible. GL finding a corp there are lots out there.
Damaclease	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:13:00 - [18] Reading your thread i was goin how teh hell do you disriminate. TS is only valid if the corp you want to join only uses TS (if thats the case it REALLY sux). Be positive there must be other corps that don't use TS and would be more suitible. GL finding a corp there are lots out there.
Majaraw Awalabas	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:18:00 - [19] Just be glad that you found out the nature of their character (or lack of character) before investing much playing time with them. I've flown several times with a deaf pilot, he is not on TeamSpeak/Ventrilo so we relay commands to our gang chat, we try to keep it free of non-important stuff during operations so it's easier for him to get commands and the gist of what is happening. He's probably lost out a few times because orders weren't relayed fast enough or he didn't spot them, but it's all in good fun and we both try to make it a pleasurable experience for each other. Not being able to listen to TeamSpeak/Ventrilo isn't much different actually from those that are on it and can't understand what is being said because of bad microphones, choppy server connection or really different accents
Majaraw Awalabas	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:18:00 - [20] Just be glad that you found out the nature of their character (or lack of character) before investing much playing time with them. I've flown several times with a deaf pilot, he is not on TeamSpeak/Ventrilo so we relay commands to our gang chat, we try to keep it free of non-important stuff during operations so it's easier for him to get commands and the gist of what is happening. He's probably lost out a few times because orders weren't relayed fast enough or he didn't spot them, but it's all in good fun and we both try to make it a pleasurable experience for each other. Not being able to listen to TeamSpeak/Ventrilo isn't much different actually from those that are on it and can't understand what is being said because of bad microphones, choppy server connection or really different accents
Ronyo Dae'Loki	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:33:00 - [21] We had a deaf person in our corp before, there weren't any major problems, commands were just relayed into gang chat. No big deal. ------------- My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants. I <3 ( . Y . )
Ronyo Dae'Loki	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:33:00 - [22] We had a deaf person in our corp before, there weren't any major problems, commands were just relayed into gang chat. No big deal. ------------- My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants. I <3 ( . Y . )
corporal hicks	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:36:00 - [23] Edited by: corporal hicks on 04/09/2004 22:37:49 keeping a eye on this tread to see what happens nice to see the community ralling around this issue because it sucks, some great corps have allready posted like cov and PIE, maybe contacting some of them would be better than wasteing time on the retards who turned you down. BTW please name the corp that turned you down, I would hate for them to get away with such a horrible thing. " Stay Frosty "
corporal hicks	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:36:00 - [24] Edited by: corporal hicks on 04/09/2004 22:37:49 keeping a eye on this tread to see what happens nice to see the community ralling around this issue because it sucks, some great corps have allready posted like cov and PIE, maybe contacting some of them would be better than wasteing time on the retards who turned you down. BTW please name the corp that turned you down, I would hate for them to get away with such a horrible thing. " Stay Frosty "
Sassinak	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Ronyo Dae'Loki We had a deaf person in our corp before, there weren't any major problems, commands were just relayed into gang chat. No big deal. commands should be relayed into gang chat by another member than the gang leader, since we play with people from all countries(well lots anyway) sometime you struggle with an accent, so its best to double up with the communication. The other thing is the only person who can suffer with not being able to hear in TS is the guy involved, and knowing that and if he is prepared to take the risk that he MAY miss a vital command, then that should be his decision. Sass Arcane Technologies
Sassinak	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:40:00 - [26] Originally by: Ronyo Dae'Loki We had a deaf person in our corp before, there weren't any major problems, commands were just relayed into gang chat. No big deal. commands should be relayed into gang chat by another member than the gang leader, since we play with people from all countries(well lots anyway) sometime you struggle with an accent, so its best to double up with the communication. The other thing is the only person who can suffer with not being able to hear in TS is the guy involved, and knowing that and if he is prepared to take the risk that he MAY miss a vital command, then that should be his decision. Sass Arcane Technologies
SageOfMystery	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:43:00 - [27] just have some one relay msg to you in gang chat its really not hard to get around the TS issue, and thats not a valid resion. i personaly say thats messed up.
SageOfMystery	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:43:00 - [28] just have some one relay msg to you in gang chat its really not hard to get around the TS issue, and thats not a valid resion. i personaly say thats messed up.
Mechanix	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:47:00 - [29] Originally by: Majaraw Awalabas Just be glad that you found out the nature of their character (or lack of character) before investing much playing time with them. I've flown several times with a deaf pilot, he is not on TeamSpeak/Ventrilo so we relay commands to our gang chat, we try to keep it free of non-important stuff during operations so it's easier for him to get commands and the gist of what is happening. He's probably lost out a few times because orders weren't relayed fast enough or he didn't spot them, but it's all in good fun and we both try to make it a pleasurable experience for each other. Not being able to listen to TeamSpeak/Ventrilo isn't much different actually from those that are on it and can't understand what is being said because of bad microphones, choppy server connection or really different accents From the perspective of someone in a PVP oriented alliance, Teamspeak is ABSOLUTELY vital. If you're an industrial/research characters, its nowhere near as important, likewise if your not operating in 0.0. Please dont take offense to people trying to be organised. It may seem unfair to you, but at its most basic, Eve is a completely ruthless game. People make rules of conduct, and if you don't like those of a particular group, find a different group of people to play with. I do sympathise with your situation, but i can completely understand the viewpoint of the people you are complaining about.
Mechanix	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:47:00 - [30] Originally by: Majaraw Awalabas Just be glad that you found out the nature of their character (or lack of character) before investing much playing time with them. I've flown several times with a deaf pilot, he is not on TeamSpeak/Ventrilo so we relay commands to our gang chat, we try to keep it free of non-important stuff during operations so it's easier for him to get commands and the gist of what is happening. He's probably lost out a few times because orders weren't relayed fast enough or he didn't spot them, but it's all in good fun and we both try to make it a pleasurable experience for each other. Not being able to listen to TeamSpeak/Ventrilo isn't much different actually from those that are on it and can't understand what is being said because of bad microphones, choppy server connection or really different accents From the perspective of someone in a PVP oriented alliance, Teamspeak is ABSOLUTELY vital. If you're an industrial/research characters, its nowhere near as important, likewise if your not operating in 0.0. Please dont take offense to people trying to be organised. It may seem unfair to you, but at its most basic, Eve is a completely ruthless game. People make rules of conduct, and if you don't like those of a particular group, find a different group of people to play with. I do sympathise with your situation, but i can completely understand the viewpoint of the people you are complaining about.
Skelator	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:52:00 - [31] Your disability is not a Factor Consider yourself WELCOME at Stronghold. Contact me or Ice queenslayer or Hugh Koffman. I know personally of a few fully disabled players in -=EVE=- ONE who will WTFPWN anyone in a one for one. People with disabilities are Human Beings too and the Person or Persons (Name the corp Please) ought to count their Goddamned Blessings that they arent in the same boat as a Person with a disability. It really makes me very very Upset and Angry when I see this kind of Crap. They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards
Skelator	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:52:00 - [32] Your disability is not a Factor Consider yourself WELCOME at Stronghold. Contact me or Ice queenslayer or Hugh Koffman. I know personally of a few fully disabled players in -=EVE=- ONE who will WTFPWN anyone in a one for one. People with disabilities are Human Beings too and the Person or Persons (Name the corp Please) ought to count their Goddamned Blessings that they arent in the same boat as a Person with a disability. It really makes me very very Upset and Angry when I see this kind of Crap. They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards
Einheriar Ulrich	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:55:00 - [33] Well just look at it as their loss So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar. **Minion Of VOTF**
Einheriar Ulrich	Posted - 2004.09.04 22:55:00 - [34] Well just look at it as their loss So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar. **Minion Of VOTF**
Gerome Doutrande	Posted - 2004.09.04 23:02:00 - [35] yes, messed up. i've played with people with disabilities before in this game (also a deaf one), this has never caused any problems whatsoever. some people should a) give it a go before turning good people down because of an "inferred problem" and b) not shy away from being straightforward to people. i'm sure you won't have a problem finding a good corp (and if you want we can have a chat about your future with adc of course, i mean geez 17 mil sp ).
Gerome Doutrande	Posted - 2004.09.04 23:02:00 - [36] yes, messed up. i've played with people with disabilities before in this game (also a deaf one), this has never caused any problems whatsoever. some people should a) give it a go before turning good people down because of an "inferred problem" and b) not shy away from being straightforward to people. i'm sure you won't have a problem finding a good corp (and if you want we can have a chat about your future with adc of course, i mean geez 17 mil sp ).
Lallante	Posted - 2004.09.04 23:17:00 - [37] Personally, since we demand 100% of our memberbase to PvP, I can see how inability to use TS would result in a problem. As a miner producer in a production corp however... Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
Lallante	Posted - 2004.09.04 23:17:00 - [38] Personally, since we demand 100% of our memberbase to PvP, I can see how inability to use TS would result in a problem. As a miner producer in a production corp however... Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
Machiavelli7	Posted - 2004.09.04 23:29:00 - [39] I neither know nor care if any of my corpm8's have disabilities or not - doesn't make us change how we play the game Shi*ty behaviour by the corp you applied to IMO, you'd be very welcome in the asylum with the rest of us lunatics _________________________________
Machiavelli7	Posted - 2004.09.04 23:29:00 - [40] I neither know nor care if any of my corpm8's have disabilities or not - doesn't make us change how we play the game Shi*ty behaviour by the corp you applied to IMO, you'd be very welcome in the asylum with the rest of us lunatics _________________________________
Taladorn	Posted - 2004.09.04 23:29:00 - [41] There is and has been for a long time a larger than known percentage of players in online games that are deaf or hearing impaired to one degree or another. There are also players with speech impediments etc. Discrimination in this and many games takes many forms. - level of play ability - physical challenges - age - race - sexual orientation Much like the real world its all crap and should never be condoned. I myself am 40% deaf in one ear due to a busted ear drum as a child. If a corp states they are a TS use only corp on there info pages or something then I guess I can understand a restriction but I still dont agree with it. Its kind of weird btw, CCP has the following line in the TOS: You may not violate any local, state, national or international laws or regulations. But the above is without a doubt the most unenforceable line in it. You can have behavior which is illegal to do in one country and condoned in another country. Under US Anti-Discrimination laws regarding clubs and organizations the behavior you described is illegal in any setting. In other countries its not, so I guess its just a bad situation all around :( <THE.MM Forums>
Taladorn	Posted - 2004.09.04 23:29:00 - [42] There is and has been for a long time a larger than known percentage of players in online games that are deaf or hearing impaired to one degree or another. There are also players with speech impediments etc. Discrimination in this and many games takes many forms. - level of play ability - physical challenges - age - race - sexual orientation Much like the real world its all crap and should never be condoned. I myself am 40% deaf in one ear due to a busted ear drum as a child. If a corp states they are a TS use only corp on there info pages or something then I guess I can understand a restriction but I still dont agree with it. Its kind of weird btw, CCP has the following line in the TOS: You may not violate any local, state, national or international laws or regulations. But the above is without a doubt the most unenforceable line in it. You can have behavior which is illegal to do in one country and condoned in another country. Under US Anti-Discrimination laws regarding clubs and organizations the behavior you described is illegal in any setting. In other countries its not, so I guess its just a bad situation all around :( <THE.MM Forums>
Bosie	Posted - 2004.09.04 23:30:00 - [43] Jupp this attitude sucks. I agree that if you were a PvPer then it would be your risk to take and a risk that would affect your fellow combat pilots. But hey Gang/Corp chat is there. In RKK T/S is used all the time in combat but there are one or two members that lack the gear to join in. They get ALL orders via the above channels and it works. Screw that Corp it's their loss, name and shame them. Bosie. http://bosie.proboards40.com/ http://zeroimpact.co.uk/evemap
Bosie	Posted - 2004.09.04 23:30:00 - [44] Jupp this attitude sucks. I agree that if you were a PvPer then it would be your risk to take and a risk that would affect your fellow combat pilots. But hey Gang/Corp chat is there. In RKK T/S is used all the time in combat but there are one or two members that lack the gear to join in. They get ALL orders via the above channels and it works. Screw that Corp it's their loss, name and shame them. Bosie. http://bosie.proboards40.com/ http://zeroimpact.co.uk/evemap
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.09.04 23:44:00 - [45] Well in my opinion its up to the CEO and Directors who gets to join their corpiration. Still a lame act on their behalf to deny anyone to join because they have a disability. Name them and I am sure their own members will be unhappy how their leaders act towards people who have disabilities since that is the worst kind of abuse imo, people cant help how they are born or become later on in life regarding physical state of the body. It just shows their own mental state to deny you to the corp because you cant hear. And here I was thinking that since we made it to the 21'st century that people actually became open minded towards their fellows who are disabled, guess I was wrong and I feel for you *Spawn of the Devil*
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.09.04 23:44:00 - [46] Well in my opinion its up to the CEO and Directors who gets to join their corpiration. Still a lame act on their behalf to deny anyone to join because they have a disability. Name them and I am sure their own members will be unhappy how their leaders act towards people who have disabilities since that is the worst kind of abuse imo, people cant help how they are born or become later on in life regarding physical state of the body. It just shows their own mental state to deny you to the corp because you cant hear. And here I was thinking that since we made it to the 21'st century that people actually became open minded towards their fellows who are disabled, guess I was wrong and I feel for you *Spawn of the Devil*
Princess Ardalla	Posted - 2004.09.05 00:11:00 - [47] Can you name this corporation? I'd like to know who they are. Perhaps a public shaming is in order. Since your a producer I see no problem with being deaf and playing Eve. Even in combat Teamspeak is essential for the megacorps but many corps have players relay to gangchat as well. The point of Eve is to have fun. If your taking "winning" this seriously as to discriminate against someone your really not the kind of people I'd like to be around in real life anyway. Obviously your real life attitude has interferred with your gameplay in denying this friendly experienced player the right to play in your corp. Again please name this corporation. I'd like to know who they are. This type of action affects all of us indirectly. How many other disabled people have applied to this corp and just quit the game instead of coming forward with their story as you have? Princess Ardalla
Princess Ardalla	Posted - 2004.09.05 00:11:00 - [48] Can you name this corporation? I'd like to know who they are. Perhaps a public shaming is in order. Since your a producer I see no problem with being deaf and playing Eve. Even in combat Teamspeak is essential for the megacorps but many corps have players relay to gangchat as well. The point of Eve is to have fun. If your taking "winning" this seriously as to discriminate against someone your really not the kind of people I'd like to be around in real life anyway. Obviously your real life attitude has interferred with your gameplay in denying this friendly experienced player the right to play in your corp. Again please name this corporation. I'd like to know who they are. This type of action affects all of us indirectly. How many other disabled people have applied to this corp and just quit the game instead of coming forward with their story as you have? Princess Ardalla
fisty	Posted - 2004.09.05 00:25:00 - [49] im rly sorry what happend to u m8 i wish i would have the power and give u back what was taken from u!screw that corp theyr idiots if theyr reasoning not to accept u is because u cant hear than i think these ppl dont deserve to be accepted in ANY kind of ways! wish ya the best m8 and kick theyr asses when u see em:D ciao
fisty	Posted - 2004.09.05 00:25:00 - [50] im rly sorry what happend to u m8 i wish i would have the power and give u back what was taken from u!screw that corp theyr idiots if theyr reasoning not to accept u is because u cant hear than i think these ppl dont deserve to be accepted in ANY kind of ways! wish ya the best m8 and kick theyr asses when u see em:D ciao
Mackerel	Posted - 2004.09.05 00:39:00 - [51] Edited by: Mackerel on 05/09/2004 00:42:07 I'm profoundly deaf myself, and it's never been a problem in Eve and frankly, it shouldn't be. I've had no problem on fleet operations and my PIE corpmates are quite happy to relay commands in gang chat. It's really sad to see discrimination seeping into the one medium you'd think we shouldn't have any problems communicating in. Inability to use TS/Ventrillo is not a valid excuse for rejecting a deaf person's application to a corp. It's not exactly hard to type commands in gang chat. Anyway, surely it's better to be there adding to the numbers, providing support no matter what, than to not be there at all? I'm sure those of you who claim TS/Vent is an issue would go on to explain that being a fraction of a second slower to respond could be the difference between life and death. Well, perhaps....but come on, get a grip, IT'S A GAME. I'd like to know who the corp that rejected your application were too. I'd be interested to know what CCP think of such discrimination and what they'd do about it. Sounds like there's a fair few deaf people playing, I know of a few myself. Maybe we could form some sort of informal alliance! :) Per oculus non aureus. ---------------
Mackerel	Posted - 2004.09.05 00:39:00 - [52] Edited by: Mackerel on 05/09/2004 00:42:07 I'm profoundly deaf myself, and it's never been a problem in Eve and frankly, it shouldn't be. I've had no problem on fleet operations and my PIE corpmates are quite happy to relay commands in gang chat. It's really sad to see discrimination seeping into the one medium you'd think we shouldn't have any problems communicating in. Inability to use TS/Ventrillo is not a valid excuse for rejecting a deaf person's application to a corp. It's not exactly hard to type commands in gang chat. Anyway, surely it's better to be there adding to the numbers, providing support no matter what, than to not be there at all? I'm sure those of you who claim TS/Vent is an issue would go on to explain that being a fraction of a second slower to respond could be the difference between life and death. Well, perhaps....but come on, get a grip, IT'S A GAME. I'd like to know who the corp that rejected your application were too. I'd be interested to know what CCP think of such discrimination and what they'd do about it. Sounds like there's a fair few deaf people playing, I know of a few myself. Maybe we could form some sort of informal alliance! :) Per oculus non aureus. ---------------
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.09.05 00:52:00 - [53] If this was a say a highcourt case in Iceland before a judge in real life regarding a person being denied a job because of being deaf they would be found guilty of breaking the laws we have. Name the corp and I am sure they will be found guilty of discrimination both of the players in EVE and CCP. The players would most likely throw few corp wars on them which in the end might cause their corp to disband, or at least I hope so since the game is full of people looking for an excuse to declare wars for little reasons. So again I plea to you to name the corp and the persons who dealt with your application so they can be dealt with *Spawn of the Devil*
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.09.05 00:52:00 - [54] If this was a say a highcourt case in Iceland before a judge in real life regarding a person being denied a job because of being deaf they would be found guilty of breaking the laws we have. Name the corp and I am sure they will be found guilty of discrimination both of the players in EVE and CCP. The players would most likely throw few corp wars on them which in the end might cause their corp to disband, or at least I hope so since the game is full of people looking for an excuse to declare wars for little reasons. So again I plea to you to name the corp and the persons who dealt with your application so they can be dealt with *Spawn of the Devil*
Zen Later	Posted - 2004.09.05 00:57:00 - [55] Omni just wants to really, really, really blow somebody up Seriously though pretty crummy story. Think Sass hit the nail on the head...let you make up your mind if you want to take that risk of having to wait for somebody to type everything out. Omni does have a good point...come on with your main...cuz you have some good support here and some good might come out of this ****zy situation...and name the corp involved. The Eve universe will take care of the rest
Zen Later	Posted - 2004.09.05 00:57:00 - [56] Omni just wants to really, really, really blow somebody up Seriously though pretty crummy story. Think Sass hit the nail on the head...let you make up your mind if you want to take that risk of having to wait for somebody to type everything out. Omni does have a good point...come on with your main...cuz you have some good support here and some good might come out of this ****zy situation...and name the corp involved. The Eve universe will take care of the rest
Bared Bel'Medar	Posted - 2004.09.05 01:18:00 - [57] Dude, thats a new low, what Corp was it? I am Jack's broken moral compass. I am Jack's STILL trapped in eve limbo. maybe not for much longer...
Bared Bel'Medar	Posted - 2004.09.05 01:18:00 - [58] Dude, thats a new low, what Corp was it? I am Jack's broken moral compass. I am Jack's STILL trapped in eve limbo. maybe not for much longer...
Tristan	Posted - 2004.09.05 01:38:00 - [59] You are all jumping on the bandwaggon here, but look from another angle. the guys char has no avatar on the forums yet, so its the first time hes posted here. I havent looked him up in game, but he could be a new char. i could make an alt tommorrow and join an enemy corp in an enemy alliance, and when it comes to TS - in order to hide my identity (maybe they know my voice) i say im deaf and cant use it. Im not saying this is the case here, but could happen. I once had a guy who applied to cme tell me he had no sound card and couldnt come on TS. but he had an athlon 3200. i found it real hard to believe he had no sound card, even on-board with a modern CPU like that, he was regected. id rather reject ten possible spies to catch a spy out, than take ten applications and be unsure if one or more was a spy. wouldnt you? Anyway, good look with your corp hunting, as was mentioned earlier sounds like they werent right for you. joining a corp is a relationship that should work both ways - find someone who suits YOU as well as the other way round.
Tristan	Posted - 2004.09.05 01:38:00 - [60] You are all jumping on the bandwaggon here, but look from another angle. the guys char has no avatar on the forums yet, so its the first time hes posted here. I havent looked him up in game, but he could be a new char. i could make an alt tommorrow and join an enemy corp in an enemy alliance, and when it comes to TS - in order to hide my identity (maybe they know my voice) i say im deaf and cant use it. Im not saying this is the case here, but could happen. I once had a guy who applied to cme tell me he had no sound card and couldnt come on TS. but he had an athlon 3200. i found it real hard to believe he had no sound card, even on-board with a modern CPU like that, he was regected. id rather reject ten possible spies to catch a spy out, than take ten applications and be unsure if one or more was a spy. wouldnt you? Anyway, good look with your corp hunting, as was mentioned earlier sounds like they werent right for you. joining a corp is a relationship that should work both ways - find someone who suits YOU as well as the other way round.
Dolemite2K	Posted - 2004.09.05 01:39:00 - [61] name the corp they don't deserve to be animous(SP?) ----------------------------------------------- Life is like a long poo that you have to take a bite of every day
Dolemite2K	Posted - 2004.09.05 01:39:00 - [62] name the corp they don't deserve to be animous(SP?) ----------------------------------------------- Life is like a long poo that you have to take a bite of every day
Capt Hindgrinder	Posted - 2004.09.05 01:45:00 - [63] For your own empowerment, it should be duely noted that disabled people often are the most dedicated and succesful people in this game. We need only look as far a Xirt to prove this point. Good luck m8, if you can handle sick humour and dope parties, feel free to apply to EGCO. C.H.
Capt Hindgrinder	Posted - 2004.09.05 01:45:00 - [64] For your own empowerment, it should be duely noted that disabled people often are the most dedicated and succesful people in this game. We need only look as far a Xirt to prove this point. Good luck m8, if you can handle sick humour and dope parties, feel free to apply to EGCO. C.H.
Dentali	Posted - 2004.09.05 01:45:00 - [65] Originally by: Davik Joran Has anyone ever been turned down from a corporation for being disabled?I'm asking because it happened to me, and I'm a bit miffed about it. I've been fully deaf since the age of 14, but obviously that never stopped me from playing EVE.Now the other night I applied to a well known corporation in a well known, big alliance.I've been playing this game since beta.I'm a miner/producer with 17m skillpoints and I've made allot of friends in this game.I already knew allot of people in the corporation I was applying to, I considered them friends. Then i was turned down at the last moment, after 2 days of chit-chat and interviews I was turned down with a crappy excuse, and only after questioning a friend of mine in the corporation did I find out the true reason - my disability. If they turn down players on that basis it probably wasn't such a good corporation after all.I can see the complications with team speak and all but rather than "skirt around the issue" I'd rather have people tell it to my face.If anything, i came away feeling very patronized. My message to all CEO's and recruiting officers would be that if they ever have to deal with something like this - cut the crap and just come out with it. Anyway, discuss. Sorry that this happened to you mate. So is said.
Dentali	Posted - 2004.09.05 01:45:00 - [66] Originally by: Davik Joran Has anyone ever been turned down from a corporation for being disabled?I'm asking because it happened to me, and I'm a bit miffed about it. I've been fully deaf since the age of 14, but obviously that never stopped me from playing EVE.Now the other night I applied to a well known corporation in a well known, big alliance.I've been playing this game since beta.I'm a miner/producer with 17m skillpoints and I've made allot of friends in this game.I already knew allot of people in the corporation I was applying to, I considered them friends. Then i was turned down at the last moment, after 2 days of chit-chat and interviews I was turned down with a crappy excuse, and only after questioning a friend of mine in the corporation did I find out the true reason - my disability. If they turn down players on that basis it probably wasn't such a good corporation after all.I can see the complications with team speak and all but rather than "skirt around the issue" I'd rather have people tell it to my face.If anything, i came away feeling very patronized. My message to all CEO's and recruiting officers would be that if they ever have to deal with something like this - cut the crap and just come out with it. Anyway, discuss. Sorry that this happened to you mate. So is said.
AvanCade	Posted - 2004.09.05 02:21:00 - [67] TS/Vent is often a requirement. If i had my own corporation, then Vent would be the first thing to have. If you cant use it, bad luck then you wont be joining. Most corporation would like to have every member able to fight so Vent/TS is a requirment. You cant mix gangchat & TS/VENT. It will get you killed. And I know so. Its a bit harsh, but i totally understand the issue from both sides. There are many corporations out there. Find the one fitting your abilities.
AvanCade	Posted - 2004.09.05 02:21:00 - [68] TS/Vent is often a requirement. If i had my own corporation, then Vent would be the first thing to have. If you cant use it, bad luck then you wont be joining. Most corporation would like to have every member able to fight so Vent/TS is a requirment. You cant mix gangchat & TS/VENT. It will get you killed. And I know so. Its a bit harsh, but i totally understand the issue from both sides. There are many corporations out there. Find the one fitting your abilities.
Hakera	Posted - 2004.09.05 02:26:00 - [69] Edited by: Hakera on 05/09/2004 02:30:07 Originally by: Mackerel Edited by: Mackerel on 05/09/2004 00:42:07 I'm profoundly deaf myself, and it's never been a problem in Eve and frankly, it shouldn't be. I've had no problem on fleet operations and my PIE corpmates are quite happy to relay commands in gang chat. It's really sad to see discrimination seeping into the one medium you'd think we shouldn't have any problems communicating in. Inability to use TS/Ventrillo is not a valid excuse for rejecting a deaf person's application to a corp. It's not exactly hard to type commands in gang chat. Anyway, surely it's better to be there adding to the numbers, providing support no matter what, than to not be there at all? I'm sure those of you who claim TS/Vent is an issue would go on to explain that being a fraction of a second slower to respond could be the difference between life and death. Well, perhaps....but come on, get a grip, IT'S A GAME. I'd like to know who the corp that rejected your application were too. I'd be interested to know what CCP think of such discrimination and what they'd do about it. Sounds like there's a fair few deaf people playing, I know of a few myself. Maybe we could form some sort of informal alliance! :) Per oculus non aureus. i dunno Mackeral, Im sure you know full well our (minnie) inability to coordinate battles. Pie at least manages that. Going of our ingame chat you would be in a pod more time then a ship tbh as we are THAT uncoordinated. Its not something we are proud off but at the end of the day it is just a game and the main point is to have fun. Almost all of the minnie freedom fighting is done via ingame chat still, sure many use voice comms, but always we have ingame chat relay anyway. I would not jump on the bandwagon and call this corp lame myself, it is afterall up to the ceo/director to accept peopleand it is their intuition that must guide them. With all the contraversy over alts and corp theft/spies etc, someone who is very young character and does not come on ts for many corps might seem like someone they cant trust. Either way, there are more than a fair share of good corps out there and I would recommend Pie Inc if your Amarrin of course always. Good Luck Davik in finding the rigth corp. Just make sure its a fun one! Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Hakera	Posted - 2004.09.05 02:26:00 - [70] Edited by: Hakera on 05/09/2004 02:30:07 Originally by: Mackerel Edited by: Mackerel on 05/09/2004 00:42:07 I'm profoundly deaf myself, and it's never been a problem in Eve and frankly, it shouldn't be. I've had no problem on fleet operations and my PIE corpmates are quite happy to relay commands in gang chat. It's really sad to see discrimination seeping into the one medium you'd think we shouldn't have any problems communicating in. Inability to use TS/Ventrillo is not a valid excuse for rejecting a deaf person's application to a corp. It's not exactly hard to type commands in gang chat. Anyway, surely it's better to be there adding to the numbers, providing support no matter what, than to not be there at all? I'm sure those of you who claim TS/Vent is an issue would go on to explain that being a fraction of a second slower to respond could be the difference between life and death. Well, perhaps....but come on, get a grip, IT'S A GAME. I'd like to know who the corp that rejected your application were too. I'd be interested to know what CCP think of such discrimination and what they'd do about it. Sounds like there's a fair few deaf people playing, I know of a few myself. Maybe we could form some sort of informal alliance! :) Per oculus non aureus. i dunno Mackeral, Im sure you know full well our (minnie) inability to coordinate battles. Pie at least manages that. Going of our ingame chat you would be in a pod more time then a ship tbh as we are THAT uncoordinated. Its not something we are proud off but at the end of the day it is just a game and the main point is to have fun. Almost all of the minnie freedom fighting is done via ingame chat still, sure many use voice comms, but always we have ingame chat relay anyway. I would not jump on the bandwagon and call this corp lame myself, it is afterall up to the ceo/director to accept peopleand it is their intuition that must guide them. With all the contraversy over alts and corp theft/spies etc, someone who is very young character and does not come on ts for many corps might seem like someone they cant trust. Either way, there are more than a fair share of good corps out there and I would recommend Pie Inc if your Amarrin of course always. Good Luck Davik in finding the rigth corp. Just make sure its a fun one! Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
CoolSprog	Posted - 2004.09.05 02:33:00 - [71] TBH we i'm in a CS clan and we have a deaf player, now those of u who know CS will know sound is everything, knowing where someone is coming from etc. Still we play him and he is one of the best in our team, turning someone down for that reason isnt on tbh -----
CoolSprog	Posted - 2004.09.05 02:33:00 - [72] TBH we i'm in a CS clan and we have a deaf player, now those of u who know CS will know sound is everything, knowing where someone is coming from etc. Still we play him and he is one of the best in our team, turning someone down for that reason isnt on tbh -----
Propehcy	Posted - 2004.09.05 03:35:00 - [73] Edited by: Propehcy on 05/09/2004 03:37:43 Who was this ***** asshat corporation? What bastards. That's Low. Miner/Producer ffs, what kind of morons are these people? Doesn't supprise me though, Stupidity comes in all shapes and cowardice sizes. I mean really, I've known a guy that's deaf in eve for over a year, he's a great guy, and has a damn sharp wit, but just because he can't hear TS? WtF? That's as stupid as it is a waste of a good, and useful character/person. Here's a big one for whoever it was: ,,\|,,_ -Prophecy Ex-CA Rep and Ex-CA Member http://www.designegrafix.com/eve/prop5.jpg Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley. The Prop And Notferr Chronicles** Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence! Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is. Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing! Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud. Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr... [ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE.
Propehcy	Posted - 2004.09.05 03:35:00 - [74] Edited by: Propehcy on 05/09/2004 03:37:43 Who was this ***** asshat corporation? What bastards. That's Low. Miner/Producer ffs, what kind of morons are these people? Doesn't supprise me though, Stupidity comes in all shapes and cowardice sizes. I mean really, I've known a guy that's deaf in eve for over a year, he's a great guy, and has a damn sharp wit, but just because he can't hear TS? WtF? That's as stupid as it is a waste of a good, and useful character/person. Here's a big one for whoever it was: ,,\|,,_ -Prophecy Ex-CA Rep and Ex-CA Member http://www.designegrafix.com/eve/prop5.jpg Props Chop Shop: Ships, Arms, and Armaments producer for Northern Eve! Located at Torrinos 5 - 6 - Home Guard Assembley. The Prop And Notferr Chronicles** Notferr> Propehcy Owns me! Yet I feel so much Fear in his Evil Presence! Propehcy> Bow Down, You know who your Master is. Notferr> Only Prop is King!! Only Prop!! I Am nothing! Propehcy> I think Stav would be Proud. Propehcy> I Need a Tool... Where is that Notferr... [ 2004.09.11 28:63:98 ] Propehcy 2004.09.11 29:05:33.3 combat Your Miner II perfectly strikes Notferr, wrecking for WTFPWNAGE.
Mojo JoJo	Posted - 2004.09.05 04:08:00 - [75] i know of some pvp focused corp that require voice coms ...altho id like to think most would make an exception for someone in your situation but who knows resons some leaders put such focus on voice coms its easier for pvp...altho #s play a great role in eve pvp and 0ne more BS could tip the scales into your favor even if he targets a bit slower trust/bonding this is another major reason alot of corps put such focus on voice coms they feel you will become closer unit-friends and it will be less likely for you to stab them in the back if you have been using voice coms excesive security possibly you use their coms they have your ip also they know you are you and not some else you sold-loaned your account too, people are nuts in general and the internet rarely seems to improve that eather way most of the times i use the ingame chat to confirm stuff in pre battle planning cause i play eve with people from all over and i often have dificulty understanding TS ("corpmate says target at xxx gate" my pos onboards sound card turns it into "6476irfkliug.kgu gate"...........if only more people used vent) eather way every one has enemys in eve, join theirs and make your revenge
Mojo JoJo	Posted - 2004.09.05 04:08:00 - [76] i know of some pvp focused corp that require voice coms ...altho id like to think most would make an exception for someone in your situation but who knows resons some leaders put such focus on voice coms its easier for pvp...altho #s play a great role in eve pvp and 0ne more BS could tip the scales into your favor even if he targets a bit slower trust/bonding this is another major reason alot of corps put such focus on voice coms they feel you will become closer unit-friends and it will be less likely for you to stab them in the back if you have been using voice coms excesive security possibly you use their coms they have your ip also they know you are you and not some else you sold-loaned your account too, people are nuts in general and the internet rarely seems to improve that eather way most of the times i use the ingame chat to confirm stuff in pre battle planning cause i play eve with people from all over and i often have dificulty understanding TS ("corpmate says target at xxx gate" my pos onboards sound card turns it into "6476irfkliug.kgu gate"...........if only more people used vent) eather way every one has enemys in eve, join theirs and make your revenge
Notferr	Posted - 2004.09.05 04:30:00 - [77] You would be more than welcome in my corp, bud. That is indeed a pile. - N - Cowboy - Celestial Apocalypse Now hear this, I am selling clues on market in gehi.
Notferr	Posted - 2004.09.05 04:30:00 - [78] You would be more than welcome in my corp, bud. That is indeed a pile. - N - Cowboy - Celestial Apocalypse Now hear this, I am selling clues on market in gehi.
PASTOR TROY	Posted - 2004.09.05 05:18:00 - [79] If youre as good as you say you are... its the corp you applied to who lost out. If they use that type of judgement for there everyday affairs..its good that you didn't join because theyll probably be out of buisness soon.
PASTOR TROY	Posted - 2004.09.05 05:18:00 - [80] If youre as good as you say you are... its the corp you applied to who lost out. If they use that type of judgement for there everyday affairs..its good that you didn't join because theyll probably be out of buisness soon.
Sleazy Cabbie	Posted - 2004.09.05 05:33:00 - [81] Noob corp. Move on. Look us up if you need a home. We want what you CAN do, not beat you over the head with what you CANT do. Everybody isn't Rambo, everybody isn't Einstein, if you can't Fight;Manufacture, if you can't Manufacture;Mine, run errands, mop the floor, make me a sandwich, do something, anything, if you have one functional muscle in your body left, use it to raise your middle finger. Don't waste your time worrying about what you CANT do, take every God-given ability you have and put it to work. Good luck to you kid. Sleazy Out
Sleazy Cabbie	Posted - 2004.09.05 05:33:00 - [82] Noob corp. Move on. Look us up if you need a home. We want what you CAN do, not beat you over the head with what you CANT do. Everybody isn't Rambo, everybody isn't Einstein, if you can't Fight;Manufacture, if you can't Manufacture;Mine, run errands, mop the floor, make me a sandwich, do something, anything, if you have one functional muscle in your body left, use it to raise your middle finger. Don't waste your time worrying about what you CANT do, take every God-given ability you have and put it to work. Good luck to you kid. Sleazy Out
Mirus Crosius	Posted - 2004.09.05 08:28:00 - [83] EVE is home to some of the nicest people on the planet. It is also home to some of the most narrow-minded childlike idiots on the planet. Some of these people know who they are, others need it spelling out to them. You've had some good offers from some good people here, my friend. I have to concur with Omniwar... a corp with principles like that is not going to last long. It would be interesting to know who it was. I hope the CEO/Director of the corp in question feels suitably ashamed.
Mirus Crosius	Posted - 2004.09.05 08:28:00 - [84] EVE is home to some of the nicest people on the planet. It is also home to some of the most narrow-minded childlike idiots on the planet. Some of these people know who they are, others need it spelling out to them. You've had some good offers from some good people here, my friend. I have to concur with Omniwar... a corp with principles like that is not going to last long. It would be interesting to know who it was. I hope the CEO/Director of the corp in question feels suitably ashamed.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.05 08:55:00 - [85] When I was 19 I had a summer job as a rep in the Lake District. I was responsible for organising adventure trips for tourists. Quite often we'd have disabled people on these trips and I learned very quickly that they HATE it when people try to tip-toe around the subject of their disability. By the end of the summer holidays I was upfront with them and they always accepted when their disability meant they couldn't take part in a certain part of the trip. They know the limits of their disability and appreciate that we, as the organisers, just can't get around certain disabilities. Moral of the story: Not everyone realises how to handle people with a disability so perhaps YOU could show a bit of sensitivity and not flame them out on the boards for trying to make the best of an embarrassing situation. If you can't fulfil a certain aspect of their corp. policy on recruitment then deal with it. Your disability DID prevent you from joining but it was not discrimination. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.05 08:55:00 - [86] When I was 19 I had a summer job as a rep in the Lake District. I was responsible for organising adventure trips for tourists. Quite often we'd have disabled people on these trips and I learned very quickly that they HATE it when people try to tip-toe around the subject of their disability. By the end of the summer holidays I was upfront with them and they always accepted when their disability meant they couldn't take part in a certain part of the trip. They know the limits of their disability and appreciate that we, as the organisers, just can't get around certain disabilities. Moral of the story: Not everyone realises how to handle people with a disability so perhaps YOU could show a bit of sensitivity and not flame them out on the boards for trying to make the best of an embarrassing situation. If you can't fulfil a certain aspect of their corp. policy on recruitment then deal with it. Your disability DID prevent you from joining but it was not discrimination. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
sutty	Posted - 2004.09.05 10:12:00 - [87] Edited by: sutty on 05/09/2004 10:18:11 Ok without sounding funny , its a posibility that you not being on Teamspeak would hinder pvp operations etc. IE, slowing them down because people are having to type everything they say, and maybe causing the kill to get away. Oh and comming crying on the forums makes you no better then them. You should of delt with this in game or kept it to yourself, if they dont want you in there corp its nobody elses buisness. Infact it really iratates me that people with disabiltys play on others sympthy for abit of attention.
sutty	Posted - 2004.09.05 10:12:00 - [88] Edited by: sutty on 05/09/2004 10:18:11 Ok without sounding funny , its a posibility that you not being on Teamspeak would hinder pvp operations etc. IE, slowing them down because people are having to type everything they say, and maybe causing the kill to get away. Oh and comming crying on the forums makes you no better then them. You should of delt with this in game or kept it to yourself, if they dont want you in there corp its nobody elses buisness. Infact it really iratates me that people with disabiltys play on others sympthy for abit of attention.
long gone	Posted - 2004.09.05 10:16:00 - [89] erm..... Why hasn't the original poster repsonded to any of these other players that offered help ?
long gone	Posted - 2004.09.05 10:16:00 - [90] erm..... Why hasn't the original poster repsonded to any of these other players that offered help ?
fuze	Posted - 2004.09.05 12:15:00 - [91] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Your disability DID prevent you from joining but it was not discrimination. What you say may be true but the corp who declined him used a lame excuse and didn't have the guts to tell him the real reason to turn him down. But from some of the posts here it's proven that hearing impaired people can do PvP as good as anyone else. So turning down those people isn't based on anything about speculations which turn out to be false anyway. And what if you mic breaks down and you ordered a new one on the net which takes a few days. You get kicked out of the corp untill you get that mic back again? If you was blind I'd say that's a valid reason not to get in any corp. ___________________________ Favorite bumpersticker of the month: My head hurts!
fuze	Posted - 2004.09.05 12:15:00 - [92] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Your disability DID prevent you from joining but it was not discrimination. What you say may be true but the corp who declined him used a lame excuse and didn't have the guts to tell him the real reason to turn him down. But from some of the posts here it's proven that hearing impaired people can do PvP as good as anyone else. So turning down those people isn't based on anything about speculations which turn out to be false anyway. And what if you mic breaks down and you ordered a new one on the net which takes a few days. You get kicked out of the corp untill you get that mic back again? If you was blind I'd say that's a valid reason not to get in any corp. ___________________________ Favorite bumpersticker of the month: My head hurts!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.05 12:19:00 - [93] Originally by: fuze Originally by: Joshua Calvert Your disability DID prevent you from joining but it was not discrimination. What you say may be true but the corp who declined him used a lame excuse and didn't have the guts to tell him the real reason to turn him down. But from some of the posts here it's proven that hearing impaired people can do PvP as good as anyone else. So turning down those people isn't based on anything about speculations which turn out to be false anyway. And what if you mic breaks down and you ordered a new one on the net which takes a few days. You get kicked out of the corp untill you get that mic back again? If you was blind I'd say that's a valid reason not to get in any corp. You can fix a broken mic but I don't think his deafness can be fixed with superglue and sticky tape. If you'd read my post properly you'd see that I explained how, for most people, approaching the subject of someones disability is awkward and embarrassing. Hence, they gave him what they thought were less "touchy" excuses. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.09.05 12:19:00 - [94] Originally by: fuze Originally by: Joshua Calvert Your disability DID prevent you from joining but it was not discrimination. What you say may be true but the corp who declined him used a lame excuse and didn't have the guts to tell him the real reason to turn him down. But from some of the posts here it's proven that hearing impaired people can do PvP as good as anyone else. So turning down those people isn't based on anything about speculations which turn out to be false anyway. And what if you mic breaks down and you ordered a new one on the net which takes a few days. You get kicked out of the corp untill you get that mic back again? If you was blind I'd say that's a valid reason not to get in any corp. You can fix a broken mic but I don't think his deafness can be fixed with superglue and sticky tape. If you'd read my post properly you'd see that I explained how, for most people, approaching the subject of someones disability is awkward and embarrassing. Hence, they gave him what they thought were less "touchy" excuses. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Zzazzt	Posted - 2004.09.05 13:24:00 - [95] This is crappy in the extreme. Inability to hear commands in TS is no excuse. All commands should always be echoed in gang chat to get around language barriers anyway - end of story. Their reluctance to take you on on that premise indicates immaturity and an unwillingness to adapt their organisation methods to new challenges. Very lame indeed - you're better off elsewhere. Games like this are supposed to allow you to escape and transcend the limitations imposed upon you in RL, be they economic, social or physical. Turning down a 17m SP character for a reason such as that is foolish in the extreme. Nothing galls me more than prejudice - it is a cancer in the bowels of humanity, and it is sad to see such mindsets oozing their way into virtual comminities such as this. Corporations should, of course, be able to exercise discression over who they admit to their ranks, but that discression should be used on the basis of how the char in question will fit in, are they a spy, things like that. MLM would have no problems accepting you, assuming we're your sort of corp, and you're our sort of player. ____________________________________________ MLM: Gentlemen at Play
Zzazzt	Posted - 2004.09.05 13:24:00 - [96] This is crappy in the extreme. Inability to hear commands in TS is no excuse. All commands should always be echoed in gang chat to get around language barriers anyway - end of story. Their reluctance to take you on on that premise indicates immaturity and an unwillingness to adapt their organisation methods to new challenges. Very lame indeed - you're better off elsewhere. Games like this are supposed to allow you to escape and transcend the limitations imposed upon you in RL, be they economic, social or physical. Turning down a 17m SP character for a reason such as that is foolish in the extreme. Nothing galls me more than prejudice - it is a cancer in the bowels of humanity, and it is sad to see such mindsets oozing their way into virtual comminities such as this. Corporations should, of course, be able to exercise discression over who they admit to their ranks, but that discression should be used on the basis of how the char in question will fit in, are they a spy, things like that. MLM would have no problems accepting you, assuming we're your sort of corp, and you're our sort of player. ____________________________________________ MLM: Gentlemen at Play
LOLZ	Posted - 2004.09.05 13:52:00 - [97] Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a bit low, even if TS is a major component, as a miner and producer there is no real reason for having to use TS !! how is it low? people should be able to employ who they want. more corperations than you probably imagine use voice software exclusively and only ever touch ingame chat when they need to copy and paste something like a system name or killmail. i know he said hes only a miner/production guy and they dont really need to use teamspeak but if no one else in the corp use's corp chat the guy is not going to enjoy the corperation very much really. as he said it was an alliance corp i imagine they do alot of PVP and really do rely on teamspeak for everything. im also fed up of the way the world is today. YOU can not turn someone down or tell them no without it beeing racist or discrimination!!! there are valid reasons why alot of corperation's would not want people with hearing difficulties etc.
LOLZ	Posted - 2004.09.05 13:52:00 - [98] Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a bit low, even if TS is a major component, as a miner and producer there is no real reason for having to use TS !! how is it low? people should be able to employ who they want. more corperations than you probably imagine use voice software exclusively and only ever touch ingame chat when they need to copy and paste something like a system name or killmail. i know he said hes only a miner/production guy and they dont really need to use teamspeak but if no one else in the corp use's corp chat the guy is not going to enjoy the corperation very much really. as he said it was an alliance corp i imagine they do alot of PVP and really do rely on teamspeak for everything. im also fed up of the way the world is today. YOU can not turn someone down or tell them no without it beeing racist or discrimination!!! there are valid reasons why alot of corperation's would not want people with hearing difficulties etc.
Stavros	Posted - 2004.09.05 14:16:00 - [99] A very interesting thread this with ALOT of people jumping to ALOT of conclusions after hearing only one side of the story: If a corp has a rule that members must use teamspeak then THEY have that rule and the thread starter or ANYONE else for that matter has NO right to make them change that rule end of story. IF they have this rule and IF that is why they didn't accept the guy then that is PERFECTLY fine and not discrimation in the slightest as if another individual wanted to join and said he/she wouldnt/couldnt use ts due to say a technical problem he would be booted as well. This is perfectly legal in the real word as well, its not discrimination to not employ disabled individuals who simply could not do the job at all. HOWEVER With that said IF the corp is not strictly a teamspeak using corp and refused this individual based on chilidish and quite frankly abhorent predudices then they are infact scum sucking pustules on the ass of human kind and as such should promptly utilise their god given right to END THEMSELVES ¼_¼ Stavros final thought... We do NOT know both sides of the story and only one of the above versions can be true, since we probably never WILL know EXACTLY what happened (ie have a truthful unbiased version of events) I suggest that infact everyone STOPS making SWEEPING STUPID generalisations on the matter and trying to claim the moral high ground and instead either offers this individual a position in their corp/a corp they know of that doesnt use ts or whatever or just hush up. Stavros Springer -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Stavros	Posted - 2004.09.05 14:16:00 - [100] A very interesting thread this with ALOT of people jumping to ALOT of conclusions after hearing only one side of the story: If a corp has a rule that members must use teamspeak then THEY have that rule and the thread starter or ANYONE else for that matter has NO right to make them change that rule end of story. IF they have this rule and IF that is why they didn't accept the guy then that is PERFECTLY fine and not discrimation in the slightest as if another individual wanted to join and said he/she wouldnt/couldnt use ts due to say a technical problem he would be booted as well. This is perfectly legal in the real word as well, its not discrimination to not employ disabled individuals who simply could not do the job at all. HOWEVER With that said IF the corp is not strictly a teamspeak using corp and refused this individual based on chilidish and quite frankly abhorent predudices then they are infact scum sucking pustules on the ass of human kind and as such should promptly utilise their god given right to END THEMSELVES ¼_¼ Stavros final thought... We do NOT know both sides of the story and only one of the above versions can be true, since we probably never WILL know EXACTLY what happened (ie have a truthful unbiased version of events) I suggest that infact everyone STOPS making SWEEPING STUPID generalisations on the matter and trying to claim the moral high ground and instead either offers this individual a position in their corp/a corp they know of that doesnt use ts or whatever or just hush up. Stavros Springer -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
OverKill	Posted - 2004.09.05 14:17:00 - [101] Edited by: OverKill on 05/09/2004 14:21:04 WTF... no post workie? I'll rewrite it however I believe Stavros has summed it up quite nicely. Shameless plug to the original author of the thread. 17m skillpoints? Specialized in production? You come and check out the Hadean Drive Yards mate. Production company, poltically neutral (thus far) and now open minded on a great many issues. Regards, OK - [email protected] - http://www.hadean.org Chief Executive Officer - Hadean Drive Yards
OverKill	Posted - 2004.09.05 14:17:00 - [102] Edited by: OverKill on 05/09/2004 14:21:04 WTF... no post workie? I'll rewrite it however I believe Stavros has summed it up quite nicely. Shameless plug to the original author of the thread. 17m skillpoints? Specialized in production? You come and check out the Hadean Drive Yards mate. Production company, poltically neutral (thus far) and now open minded on a great many issues. Regards, OK - [email protected] - http://www.hadean.org Chief Executive Officer - Hadean Drive Yards
fuze	Posted - 2004.09.05 15:46:00 - [103] I just wonder if that corp also turn people down with heavy accents (rednecks, non-english native speakers etc) that are hard to understand at TS as well. But they also might have thought that deaf people aren't as intelligent as none-deaf people are. Some *ssholes out there do think like that. ___________________________ Favorite bumpersticker of the month: My head hurts!
fuze	Posted - 2004.09.05 15:46:00 - [104] I just wonder if that corp also turn people down with heavy accents (rednecks, non-english native speakers etc) that are hard to understand at TS as well. But they also might have thought that deaf people aren't as intelligent as none-deaf people are. Some *ssholes out there do think like that. ___________________________ Favorite bumpersticker of the month: My head hurts!
Ciar Meara	Posted - 2004.09.05 15:48:00 - [105] Edited by: Ciar Meara on 05/09/2004 15:52:24 There are many words to describe the descision of that corp but the best word may just be plain idiocy. Mackeral is in PIE and as he himself states he is as deaf as anybody, if you count on teamspeak or ventrillo to save you in battle you are relying to much on technology to begin with. The key to battle is discipline, the discipline to use teamspeak or gangchat is quite the same, no chatter, ot not while fighting anyway. Mackeral my miss out on us taunting eachother in all kinds of sexual and filthy ways, but he has more then enough of that in corp chat as it is so that's no great loss. Often while in the mids of combat I preper to use the gangchat cause while battle rages, some ppl might get somewhat excited... Shure teamspeak is great help coordinating your fleet, but one man relying on the gangchat that should relay the exact orders anyway for ppl with bad reception, connection or heaven forbid, a broken headphone at the time of the operation. All the ppl here saying that any person in eve that is handicapped may not perform 100% is just bull**ting himself. all you need is eyes and the ability to move your mouse, being able to do more is a bonus, but barely usefull. A parapledic, bedridden but able to move one hand can do all the things we are doing ingame. And a deaf person is hardly helpless, if they can funtion without problems in the REAL WORLD they should be able to play A GAME. Hell I would start inviting you into PIE if you wheren't a money driving, isk whoring caldari :) PIE Inc A friend of death, a brother of luck and a son of a ***
Ciar Meara	Posted - 2004.09.05 15:48:00 - [106] Edited by: Ciar Meara on 05/09/2004 15:52:24 There are many words to describe the descision of that corp but the best word may just be plain idiocy. Mackeral is in PIE and as he himself states he is as deaf as anybody, if you count on teamspeak or ventrillo to save you in battle you are relying to much on technology to begin with. The key to battle is discipline, the discipline to use teamspeak or gangchat is quite the same, no chatter, ot not while fighting anyway. Mackeral my miss out on us taunting eachother in all kinds of sexual and filthy ways, but he has more then enough of that in corp chat as it is so that's no great loss. Often while in the mids of combat I preper to use the gangchat cause while battle rages, some ppl might get somewhat excited... Shure teamspeak is great help coordinating your fleet, but one man relying on the gangchat that should relay the exact orders anyway for ppl with bad reception, connection or heaven forbid, a broken headphone at the time of the operation. All the ppl here saying that any person in eve that is handicapped may not perform 100% is just bull**ting himself. all you need is eyes and the ability to move your mouse, being able to do more is a bonus, but barely usefull. A parapledic, bedridden but able to move one hand can do all the things we are doing ingame. And a deaf person is hardly helpless, if they can funtion without problems in the REAL WORLD they should be able to play A GAME. Hell I would start inviting you into PIE if you wheren't a money driving, isk whoring caldari :) PIE Inc A friend of death, a brother of luck and a son of a ***
Mackerel	Posted - 2004.09.05 16:03:00 - [107] Edited by: Mackerel on 05/09/2004 16:19:49 Thing is, Davik said he spoke with the corp for a couple of days, presumably using text chat before they suddenly knocked him back having found out he's deaf. I'm inclined to think if they were primarily a TS/Vent corp they'd have tried to get him to use it in the first place. He makes it sound like they knocked him back just because he's deaf, especially when you consider he's a miner/manufacturer. I still don't think inability to use TS/Vent is an acceptable excuse, but if that's how you play the game, fair enough. At least have the decency to let someone know that straight away. Joshua raised a very good point in that respect; I can't speak for everyone who's deaf obviously but if the fact i'm deaf was going to be a problem because of TS/Vent usage, i'd rather whoever was involved just said so and didn't skirt around it. Anyway, it doesn't look like Davik's going to respond to this and let us know who he or the corp involved are, so we should probably let this thread die. Like sutty said, too many people use their disabilities as an excuse for attention, and as someone else said, too many people are quick to jump to conclusions and cry discrimination. We need the full story before we make judgment and it doesn't look like we're going to get one from either party involved. I'm sorry I jumped on the bandwagon so quickly here but it was a little hard not to, considering. ---------------
Mackerel	Posted - 2004.09.05 16:03:00 - [108] Edited by: Mackerel on 05/09/2004 16:19:49 Thing is, Davik said he spoke with the corp for a couple of days, presumably using text chat before they suddenly knocked him back having found out he's deaf. I'm inclined to think if they were primarily a TS/Vent corp they'd have tried to get him to use it in the first place. He makes it sound like they knocked him back just because he's deaf, especially when you consider he's a miner/manufacturer. I still don't think inability to use TS/Vent is an acceptable excuse, but if that's how you play the game, fair enough. At least have the decency to let someone know that straight away. Joshua raised a very good point in that respect; I can't speak for everyone who's deaf obviously but if the fact i'm deaf was going to be a problem because of TS/Vent usage, i'd rather whoever was involved just said so and didn't skirt around it. Anyway, it doesn't look like Davik's going to respond to this and let us know who he or the corp involved are, so we should probably let this thread die. Like sutty said, too many people use their disabilities as an excuse for attention, and as someone else said, too many people are quick to jump to conclusions and cry discrimination. We need the full story before we make judgment and it doesn't look like we're going to get one from either party involved. I'm sorry I jumped on the bandwagon so quickly here but it was a little hard not to, considering. ---------------
Mechanix	Posted - 2004.09.05 16:06:00 - [109] Originally by: Ciar Meara Edited by: Ciar Meara on 05/09/2004 15:52:24 There are many words to describe the descision of that corp but the best word may just be plain idiocy. Mackeral is in PIE and as he himself states he is as deaf as anybody, if you count on teamspeak or ventrillo to save you in battle you are relying to much on technology to begin with. The key to battle is discipline, the discipline to use teamspeak or gangchat is quite the same, no chatter, ot not while fighting anyway. Mackeral my miss out on us taunting eachother in all kinds of sexual and filthy ways, but he has more then enough of that in corp chat as it is so that's no great loss. Often while in the mids of combat I preper to use the gangchat cause while battle rages, some ppl might get somewhat excited... Shure teamspeak is great help coordinating your fleet, but one man relying on the gangchat that should relay the exact orders anyway for ppl with bad reception, connection or heaven forbid, a broken headphone at the time of the operation. All the ppl here saying that any person in eve that is handicapped may not perform 100% is just bull****ting himself. all you need is eyes and the ability to move your mouse, being able to do more is a bonus, but barely usefull. A parapledic, bedridden but able to move one hand can do all the things we are doing ingame. And a deaf person is hardly helpless, if they can funtion without problems in the REAL WORLD they should be able to play A GAME. Hell I would start inviting you into PIE if you wheren't a money driving, isk whoring caldari :) This thread is really starting to annoy me. I have no idea what corp this was, but whoever they were decided that this character did not meet their requirements, PERIOD. They have the right to freedom of association. This is not a job. How many of you are paid a wage by your corp? And I am SICKENED by the spectacle of everyone jumping on the bandwagon, crying to "name and shame" the corp and then fall down on some small corp with the might of half of Eve, just because you're bored and want a cheap gank that you can boast was doing a favour to all of Eve. In my own personal experience, I have come across 1 person in game who claimed to be deaf. We bent our own rules for him. Then, after a little research, we discovered that 1) He was not deaf 2) He had been serially booted from several corps for being a corp-thief, liar, spamming TS and corp chats during battles, and being a general nuisance. We sent him back to empire the fast way.
Mechanix	Posted - 2004.09.05 16:06:00 - [110] Originally by: Ciar Meara Edited by: Ciar Meara on 05/09/2004 15:52:24 There are many words to describe the descision of that corp but the best word may just be plain idiocy. Mackeral is in PIE and as he himself states he is as deaf as anybody, if you count on teamspeak or ventrillo to save you in battle you are relying to much on technology to begin with. The key to battle is discipline, the discipline to use teamspeak or gangchat is quite the same, no chatter, ot not while fighting anyway. Mackeral my miss out on us taunting eachother in all kinds of sexual and filthy ways, but he has more then enough of that in corp chat as it is so that's no great loss. Often while in the mids of combat I preper to use the gangchat cause while battle rages, some ppl might get somewhat excited... Shure teamspeak is great help coordinating your fleet, but one man relying on the gangchat that should relay the exact orders anyway for ppl with bad reception, connection or heaven forbid, a broken headphone at the time of the operation. All the ppl here saying that any person in eve that is handicapped may not perform 100% is just bull****ting himself. all you need is eyes and the ability to move your mouse, being able to do more is a bonus, but barely usefull. A parapledic, bedridden but able to move one hand can do all the things we are doing ingame. And a deaf person is hardly helpless, if they can funtion without problems in the REAL WORLD they should be able to play A GAME. Hell I would start inviting you into PIE if you wheren't a money driving, isk whoring caldari :) This thread is really starting to annoy me. I have no idea what corp this was, but whoever they were decided that this character did not meet their requirements, PERIOD. They have the right to freedom of association. This is not a job. How many of you are paid a wage by your corp? And I am SICKENED by the spectacle of everyone jumping on the bandwagon, crying to "name and shame" the corp and then fall down on some small corp with the might of half of Eve, just because you're bored and want a cheap gank that you can boast was doing a favour to all of Eve. In my own personal experience, I have come across 1 person in game who claimed to be deaf. We bent our own rules for him. Then, after a little research, we discovered that 1) He was not deaf 2) He had been serially booted from several corps for being a corp-thief, liar, spamming TS and corp chats during battles, and being a general nuisance. We sent him back to empire the fast way.
Stavros	Posted - 2004.09.05 16:31:00 - [111] Edited by: Stavros on 05/09/2004 16:39:56 Edited by: Stavros on 05/09/2004 16:35:08 Mechanix said it best, the corp has a right to choose who they admit. Err hello PIE guys, you NEED voice comms in pvp, nobody in the world can type fast enough to keep a decent sized fleet going well in battle and still maintain their own combat performance. EVERY corp needs ventrillo or ts to pvp with or ur basically shooting urself in the face to start with. Ciar especially is claiming people are saying various things about deaf people, that they cannot function 100% that they cannot do this that or the other. We do not know what was said, we do not know what went on and no matter what you say if a corp demands that all their members use teamspeak then that is the corps policy and not you or anyone for that matter has the right to demand they change that just to admit one member. Its a harsh truth but its the truth none the less. Secondly as I posted before we are not in full possesion of the facts we only have ONE guys word for what happened so why must people try and claim the moral high ground and act all high and mighty based on the testimony of one pilot? Chill out and back down, this is not your fight. -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Stavros	Posted - 2004.09.05 16:31:00 - [112] Edited by: Stavros on 05/09/2004 16:39:56 Edited by: Stavros on 05/09/2004 16:35:08 Mechanix said it best, the corp has a right to choose who they admit. Err hello PIE guys, you NEED voice comms in pvp, nobody in the world can type fast enough to keep a decent sized fleet going well in battle and still maintain their own combat performance. EVERY corp needs ventrillo or ts to pvp with or ur basically shooting urself in the face to start with. Ciar especially is claiming people are saying various things about deaf people, that they cannot function 100% that they cannot do this that or the other. We do not know what was said, we do not know what went on and no matter what you say if a corp demands that all their members use teamspeak then that is the corps policy and not you or anyone for that matter has the right to demand they change that just to admit one member. Its a harsh truth but its the truth none the less. Secondly as I posted before we are not in full possesion of the facts we only have ONE guys word for what happened so why must people try and claim the moral high ground and act all high and mighty based on the testimony of one pilot? Chill out and back down, this is not your fight. -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Riddari	Posted - 2004.09.05 16:44:00 - [113] Originally by: Stavros Err hello PIE guys, you NEED voice comms in pvp, nobody in the world can type fast enough to keep a decent sized fleet going well in battle and still maintain their own combat performance. EVERY corp needs ventrillo or ts to pvp with or ur basically shooting urself in the face to start with. PIE conduct large and small scale operations. I don't think they need lessons As for the "name & shame" thing, I think that's not needed. If someone only wants red-haired people in his corp, fair game. Deaf only corp? No problem. No deafs corp? Whatever floats your boat. Some people can't handle the presence of disabled people, it's their right to be socially inadequate on their own if they so wish, we can't force them to take disabled members on board and honestly, it wouldn't be fun for anyone. ¼©¼ a history
Riddari	Posted - 2004.09.05 16:44:00 - [114] Originally by: Stavros Err hello PIE guys, you NEED voice comms in pvp, nobody in the world can type fast enough to keep a decent sized fleet going well in battle and still maintain their own combat performance. EVERY corp needs ventrillo or ts to pvp with or ur basically shooting urself in the face to start with. PIE conduct large and small scale operations. I don't think they need lessons As for the "name & shame" thing, I think that's not needed. If someone only wants red-haired people in his corp, fair game. Deaf only corp? No problem. No deafs corp? Whatever floats your boat. Some people can't handle the presence of disabled people, it's their right to be socially inadequate on their own if they so wish, we can't force them to take disabled members on board and honestly, it wouldn't be fun for anyone. ¼©¼ a history
Ciar Meara	Posted - 2004.09.05 16:56:00 - [115] Originally by: Stavros Edited by: Stavros on 05/09/2004 16:39:56 Edited by: Stavros on 05/09/2004 16:35:08 Mechanix said it best, the corp has a right to choose who they admit. Err hello PIE guys, you NEED voice comms in pvp, nobody in the world can type fast enough to keep a decent sized fleet going well in battle and still maintain their own combat performance. EVERY corp needs ventrillo or ts to pvp with or ur basically shooting urself in the face to start with. Secondly as I posted before we are not in full possesion of the facts we only have ONE guys word for what happened so why must people try and claim the moral high ground and act all high and mighty based on the testimony of one pilot? Chill out and back down, this is not your fight. I said voicecomms are handy to keep a fleet together and it would perhaps be a problem if your intire corp was deaf, but one guy not on ventrillo releying on gangchat shouldn't be a problem on your fleet operations. But saying that voicecomms are VITAL is shooting yourself in the foot how many times in combat have vital commands not been understood by ppl, lag, computerproblems, serverproblems etc always leave a few ppl out of the loop. Gangchat is every bit as vital as voicecomms, and can be checked whenever there is doubt. What is VITAL is coordination, obedience and discipline, and after that comes the way to implement fleet orders themselves. Both gangchat and voicecomms are means to an end. Typing out whole setences is rearly done in gangchat either, a few carefully chosen words can contain good orders if you have a experienced, displined crew. A crew lacking these qualities will not make good use of their "l33t" voicecomms server. In any case, we where not attacking a corp, since I do not know the corp in question. I am attacking a attitude an idea if you will that somehow EVE requires more abilty then real life does. My point in essence is this, if anybody can function in real life he shure as hell will be able to function in EVE. I doubt many of the elite EVE guys function 100% in real life anyway. PIE Inc A friend of death, a brother of luck and a son of a *****
Ciar Meara	Posted - 2004.09.05 16:56:00 - [116] Originally by: Stavros Edited by: Stavros on 05/09/2004 16:39:56 Edited by: Stavros on 05/09/2004 16:35:08 Mechanix said it best, the corp has a right to choose who they admit. Err hello PIE guys, you NEED voice comms in pvp, nobody in the world can type fast enough to keep a decent sized fleet going well in battle and still maintain their own combat performance. EVERY corp needs ventrillo or ts to pvp with or ur basically shooting urself in the face to start with. Secondly as I posted before we are not in full possesion of the facts we only have ONE guys word for what happened so why must people try and claim the moral high ground and act all high and mighty based on the testimony of one pilot? Chill out and back down, this is not your fight. I said voicecomms are handy to keep a fleet together and it would perhaps be a problem if your intire corp was deaf, but one guy not on ventrillo releying on gangchat shouldn't be a problem on your fleet operations. But saying that voicecomms are VITAL is shooting yourself in the foot how many times in combat have vital commands not been understood by ppl, lag, computerproblems, serverproblems etc always leave a few ppl out of the loop. Gangchat is every bit as vital as voicecomms, and can be checked whenever there is doubt. What is VITAL is coordination, obedience and discipline, and after that comes the way to implement fleet orders themselves. Both gangchat and voicecomms are means to an end. Typing out whole setences is rearly done in gangchat either, a few carefully chosen words can contain good orders if you have a experienced, displined crew. A crew lacking these qualities will not make good use of their "l33t" voicecomms server. In any case, we where not attacking a corp, since I do not know the corp in question. I am attacking a attitude an idea if you will that somehow EVE requires more abilty then real life does. My point in essence is this, if anybody can function in real life he shure as hell will be able to function in EVE. I doubt many of the elite EVE guys function 100% in real life anyway. PIE Inc A friend of death, a brother of luck and a son of a *****
Stavros	Posted - 2004.09.05 18:35:00 - [117] Edited by: Stavros on 05/09/2004 18:37:14 As a combat leader in a combat corporation, the other m0o commanders and I demand our members use teamspeak during combat operations. It simply is not possibly to maintain coordiation of any kind of fleet using any kind of text based means, be in one guy relaying messages or using gang chat for the entire thing. This is exactly the same with any of the other high class pvp corporations we have fought with/against over the months we have spent in eve. I for one, and I am sure I am not alone in this opinion, would rather leave individuals who arent on ts at home that take them into a fleet battle only to watch them get left behind or warp off at the wrong time due to delays in coordiation. Teamspeak/Ventrillo is not a 'l33t' thing its a gaming thing, every serious group of gamers for whatever game uses some kind of voice communications for team based competitive play and that is the end of it. Text based relay is all well and good but when u are playing with the best corps in whatever game be it eve/ut/tribes whatever, nothing comes close to having your ENTIRE team/clan/corp on voicecomms. To disagree with this statement is to display ones own ignorance and ineptitude at online gaming in general. ENDED Stavros -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
Stavros	Posted - 2004.09.05 18:35:00 - [118] Edited by: Stavros on 05/09/2004 18:37:14 As a combat leader in a combat corporation, the other m0o commanders and I demand our members use teamspeak during combat operations. It simply is not possibly to maintain coordiation of any kind of fleet using any kind of text based means, be in one guy relaying messages or using gang chat for the entire thing. This is exactly the same with any of the other high class pvp corporations we have fought with/against over the months we have spent in eve. I for one, and I am sure I am not alone in this opinion, would rather leave individuals who arent on ts at home that take them into a fleet battle only to watch them get left behind or warp off at the wrong time due to delays in coordiation. Teamspeak/Ventrillo is not a 'l33t' thing its a gaming thing, every serious group of gamers for whatever game uses some kind of voice communications for team based competitive play and that is the end of it. Text based relay is all well and good but when u are playing with the best corps in whatever game be it eve/ut/tribes whatever, nothing comes close to having your ENTIRE team/clan/corp on voicecomms. To disagree with this statement is to display ones own ignorance and ineptitude at online gaming in general. ENDED Stavros -- "Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You"
DJTheBaron	Posted - 2004.09.05 18:51:00 - [119] if say a pvp based corperation dont recruit piliots who dont have a mic for teamspeak, they wont be making exceptions for slow paced corps who mostly work in empire or are production only, teamspeak wouldnt be required, however if you go into 0.0, because of the dangers or other players and the npc you will find people need to use teamspeak to relay urgent information so that people hear it and can talk back without conecntrating on a text window, and to stop people nodding off __________________________________________________ Scum, your all scum.
DJTheBaron	Posted - 2004.09.05 18:51:00 - [120] if say a pvp based corperation dont recruit piliots who dont have a mic for teamspeak, they wont be making exceptions for slow paced corps who mostly work in empire or are production only, teamspeak wouldnt be required, however if you go into 0.0, because of the dangers or other players and the npc you will find people need to use teamspeak to relay urgent information so that people hear it and can talk back without conecntrating on a text window, and to stop people nodding off __________________________________________________ Scum, your all scum.
Dentali	Posted - 2004.09.05 19:05:00 - [121] Teamspeak is fun. So is said.
Dentali	Posted - 2004.09.05 19:05:00 - [122] Teamspeak is fun. So is said.
0Virtu0	Posted - 2004.09.05 23:09:00 - [123] Edited by: 0Virtu0 on 05/09/2004 23:12:40 Edited by: 0Virtu0 on 05/09/2004 23:11:36 Greetings, I've been reading over this post after I just happened to stumble over it, but I've seen a few posts in here that caught my attention and it make me go run a search for this 'Davik Joran' on EvE. Apparently he just registered yesterday, so unless this guy has another account we dont know about, someone is just screwing around with you guys or is just ****ed off because someone wouldn't recruit a newbie. But otherwise, if there actually is the minimal chance that this guy is deaf and he wasn't allowed in just for that (instead of my assumption it's because he's completely a newbie), then that really isn't cool, but I figure it's the corp's decision to harm their public image like that. Regards, 0Virtu0
0Virtu0	Posted - 2004.09.05 23:09:00 - [124] Edited by: 0Virtu0 on 05/09/2004 23:12:40 Edited by: 0Virtu0 on 05/09/2004 23:11:36 Greetings, I've been reading over this post after I just happened to stumble over it, but I've seen a few posts in here that caught my attention and it make me go run a search for this 'Davik Joran' on EvE. Apparently he just registered yesterday, so unless this guy has another account we dont know about, someone is just screwing around with you guys or is just ****ed off because someone wouldn't recruit a newbie. But otherwise, if there actually is the minimal chance that this guy is deaf and he wasn't allowed in just for that (instead of my assumption it's because he's completely a newbie), then that really isn't cool, but I figure it's the corp's decision to harm their public image like that. Regards, 0Virtu0
Reiisha	Posted - 2004.09.05 23:29:00 - [125] just 1 word: "wadehaddeduddeda" Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming!
Reiisha	Posted - 2004.09.05 23:29:00 - [126] just 1 word: "wadehaddeduddeda" Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming!
Kirushi	Posted - 2004.09.06 00:34:00 - [127] Edited by: Kirushi on 06/09/2004 00:39:26 i`ll shed some light over it as the story sounds alil bit to familiar... when i was in SWI, we accepted a new guy, he started to want 1v1`s with members, wich he got. during a 1v1 he almost took out a director`s ship, wich managed to warp out just in time, almost started a fight with a RL friend of mine (wich was just starting so went to digup his employment history. SWI members will remeber this guy as his name slipped my mind (Bared, search the forum ;), this guy stole, destroyed corp members ships and blamed it on lag or ignorance, reported podding on occasion in different corperations he had a different handicap, in SWI he was deaf (like now) in another he missed an arm and other crap bull****, oh btw, he was 14 to 34 in different corps my main account is disabled and install dir deleted or i`d have his name and alt names(atleast the old ones) from logs, who am i? Tenashi (just to clear this up) Edit: if anyone from SWI can access the posts(if not deleted or db cleaned or moved forum) they can give a date as the guy had something like 4milsp at that time
Kirushi	Posted - 2004.09.06 00:34:00 - [128] Edited by: Kirushi on 06/09/2004 00:39:26 i`ll shed some light over it as the story sounds alil bit to familiar... when i was in SWI, we accepted a new guy, he started to want 1v1`s with members, wich he got. during a 1v1 he almost took out a director`s ship, wich managed to warp out just in time, almost started a fight with a RL friend of mine (wich was just starting so went to digup his employment history. SWI members will remeber this guy as his name slipped my mind (Bared, search the forum ;), this guy stole, destroyed corp members ships and blamed it on lag or ignorance, reported podding on occasion in different corperations he had a different handicap, in SWI he was deaf (like now) in another he missed an arm and other crap bull****, oh btw, he was 14 to 34 in different corps my main account is disabled and install dir deleted or i`d have his name and alt names(atleast the old ones) from logs, who am i? Tenashi (just to clear this up) Edit: if anyone from SWI can access the posts(if not deleted or db cleaned or moved forum) they can give a date as the guy had something like 4milsp at that time
Rthor	Posted - 2004.09.06 00:46:00 - [129] They might have been paranoid and thought that you are spy since you would not go on TS.
Rthor	Posted - 2004.09.06 00:46:00 - [130] They might have been paranoid and thought that you are spy since you would not go on TS.
Vegeta	Posted - 2004.09.06 02:50:00 - [131] Back when I ran The Legitimate Businessmans Club when we were starting to use teamspeak, we discovered that one of our members was deaf (wont mention any names, he still plays). We didnt make a big deal out of it, I wasnt going to be discriminative and kick him out because he couldnt use it, thats just completely lame. We simply increased usage of gangchat. 2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
Vegeta	Posted - 2004.09.06 02:50:00 - [132] Back when I ran The Legitimate Businessmans Club when we were starting to use teamspeak, we discovered that one of our members was deaf (wont mention any names, he still plays). We didnt make a big deal out of it, I wasnt going to be discriminative and kick him out because he couldnt use it, thats just completely lame. We simply increased usage of gangchat. 2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
Vegeta	Posted - 2004.09.06 02:54:00 - [133] Originally by: Sassinak Originally by: Ronyo Dae'Loki We had a deaf person in our corp before, there weren't any major problems, commands were just relayed into gang chat. No big deal. commands should be relayed into gang chat by another member than the gang leader, since we play with people from all countries(well lots anyway) sometime you struggle with an accent, so its best to double up with the communication. The other thing is the only person who can suffer with not being able to hear in TS is the guy involved, and knowing that and if he is prepared to take the risk that he MAY miss a vital command, then that should be his decision. Hehe, sometimes when TWD is speaking I'm like: What the **** did he just say. 2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
Vegeta	Posted - 2004.09.06 02:54:00 - [134] Originally by: Sassinak Originally by: Ronyo Dae'Loki We had a deaf person in our corp before, there weren't any major problems, commands were just relayed into gang chat. No big deal. commands should be relayed into gang chat by another member than the gang leader, since we play with people from all countries(well lots anyway) sometime you struggle with an accent, so its best to double up with the communication. The other thing is the only person who can suffer with not being able to hear in TS is the guy involved, and knowing that and if he is prepared to take the risk that he MAY miss a vital command, then that should be his decision. Hehe, sometimes when TWD is speaking I'm like: What the **** did he just say. 2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
Lucian Alucard	Posted - 2004.09.06 03:34:00 - [135] dude that just sux, tell us the name of the corp, i am really impressed by the way Eve as a community pulls together on this, I mean you have people here who frankly can't stand eachother actually agreeing and standing together on this.We as a community think this is F*cked. Please tell us their name cuz I will gladly gank their recruitment officer. Please stop being a third rate flamer,I am tired of reactivating my account just to kick your ass.
Lucian Alucard	Posted - 2004.09.06 03:34:00 - [136] dude that just sux, tell us the name of the corp, i am really impressed by the way Eve as a community pulls together on this, I mean you have people here who frankly can't stand eachother actually agreeing and standing together on this.We as a community think this is F*cked. Please tell us their name cuz I will gladly gank their recruitment officer. Please stop being a third rate flamer,I am tired of reactivating my account just to kick your ass.
Riddari	Posted - 2004.09.06 07:33:00 - [137] Originally by: Vegeta Hehe, sometimes when TWD is speaking I'm like: What the ** did he just say. I agree The problem for us is that the same letters have different sounds in for example icelandic and dutch. So when he called Yilo as target as I was wondering who the hell that Geelo or Jaylo or whoever was, frantically scanning the name list, not spotting Yilo on the bottom because he sure as hell didn't say the Y sound I did spot it in the end but it took a lot of time and asking "Gee who?" ¼©¼ a history**
Riddari	Posted - 2004.09.06 07:33:00 - [138] Originally by: Vegeta Hehe, sometimes when TWD is speaking I'm like: What the ** did he just say. I agree The problem for us is that the same letters have different sounds in for example icelandic and dutch. So when he called Yilo as target as I was wondering who the hell that Geelo or Jaylo or whoever was, frantically scanning the name list, not spotting Yilo on the bottom because he sure as hell didn't say the Y sound I did spot it in the end but it took a lot of time and asking "Gee who?" ¼©¼ a history**
Monkey Time	Posted - 2004.09.06 08:31:00 - [139] I think you are lucky that you discovered they are a corp with such limited intelligence and ability before you joined them. TS is only worthwhile when being used effectively, and the majority of ppl dont use it effectively. And as a miner/producer why on earth do u have to have TS? m8, if you are in the northern territories, and want to join a euro corp, we'd be grateful if you would consider Eternal Legacy.
Monkey Time	Posted - 2004.09.06 08:31:00 - [140] I think you are lucky that you discovered they are a corp with such limited intelligence and ability before you joined them. TS is only worthwhile when being used effectively, and the majority of ppl dont use it effectively. And as a miner/producer why on earth do u have to have TS? m8, if you are in the northern territories, and want to join a euro corp, we'd be grateful if you would consider Eternal Legacy.
sutty	Posted - 2004.09.06 09:05:00 - [141] Edited by: sutty on 06/09/2004 09:07:05 Tbh, I think you are being unfair on the corp in question, if they require teamspeak and somone cant use it, be it because they dont have a mic or because they are deaf they wouldn't be allowed to join. No wonder some of you "pvp" corps suck so badly if your having to relay all info into gang.
sutty	Posted - 2004.09.06 09:05:00 - [142] Edited by: sutty on 06/09/2004 09:07:05 Tbh, I think you are being unfair on the corp in question, if they require teamspeak and somone cant use it, be it because they dont have a mic or because they are deaf they wouldn't be allowed to join. No wonder some of you "pvp" corps suck so badly if your having to relay all info into gang.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2004.09.06 09:26:00 - [143] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 06/09/2004 09:28:29 I think its worth re-reading the opening post. He's not complaining that he was refused a place in a corp because he couldn't use teamspeak, he's saying he is annoyed because the corp in question just didn't tell him straight out what the problem was and then tip-toed round the subject telling him alternative excuses to avoid coming right out with it. He's basically asking for a no nonsense straight talking policy in recruitment and I can't see why anyone would have a problem with that. As for the general TS/disability thing, well, we have had/have some players in Jericho who can't use TS for various reasons including disability and limited spoken english and such, and the bottom line is you decide how much you care about winning in the absolute vs being a good community environment. Clearly TS is neccessary to win fleet battles and such, but sometimes "winning" in the context of Corp management is more about maintaining an interesting and stimulating corp environment with a cast of good characters and fascinating personalities. For my money I would rather lose a few more spaceships to communication glitches and gangchat command mix-ups than miss the chance to have an enthusiastic and fun pilot in my corporation who couldn't use voice comms. And guess what, one of the best frigate pilots in the Eve is in this boat and absolutely monstrously good in skirmish combat ... anyone giving that up because of non-voice capability would be a fruit and nut bar to be honest. Lots and love JF Public Forum
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2004.09.06 09:26:00 - [144] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 06/09/2004 09:28:29 I think its worth re-reading the opening post. He's not complaining that he was refused a place in a corp because he couldn't use teamspeak, he's saying he is annoyed because the corp in question just didn't tell him straight out what the problem was and then tip-toed round the subject telling him alternative excuses to avoid coming right out with it. He's basically asking for a no nonsense straight talking policy in recruitment and I can't see why anyone would have a problem with that. As for the general TS/disability thing, well, we have had/have some players in Jericho who can't use TS for various reasons including disability and limited spoken english and such, and the bottom line is you decide how much you care about winning in the absolute vs being a good community environment. Clearly TS is neccessary to win fleet battles and such, but sometimes "winning" in the context of Corp management is more about maintaining an interesting and stimulating corp environment with a cast of good characters and fascinating personalities. For my money I would rather lose a few more spaceships to communication glitches and gangchat command mix-ups than miss the chance to have an enthusiastic and fun pilot in my corporation who couldn't use voice comms. And guess what, one of the best frigate pilots in the Eve is in this boat and absolutely monstrously good in skirmish combat ... anyone giving that up because of non-voice capability would be a fruit and nut bar to be honest. Lots and love JF Public Forum
sutty	Posted - 2004.09.06 09:51:00 - [145] This is a game, In this game the aim is to be the best. So yes winning is everything just like when I play football in rl. So this guy is complaining because the corp was trying to be nice and let him down without actually mentioning his disability. Maybe because they felt uncomfortable talking about it to him, maybe not to embarrass him or somthing. How ever I feel this topic is stupid, and that its the corps prerogative weather or not they want this person in there corp.
sutty	Posted - 2004.09.06 09:51:00 - [146] This is a game, In this game the aim is to be the best. So yes winning is everything just like when I play football in rl. So this guy is complaining because the corp was trying to be nice and let him down without actually mentioning his disability. Maybe because they felt uncomfortable talking about it to him, maybe not to embarrass him or somthing. How ever I feel this topic is stupid, and that its the corps prerogative weather or not they want this person in there corp.
Nafri	Posted - 2004.09.06 10:07:00 - [147] hõõ? do thy want to hear on TS "YEAH I MINED 200000m¦ VELDESPAR TODAY!" or "The ammunation is ready in corp hangar"?? well maybe thy are into some special addiction to voices and thy have to do RP sex on TS every evening or thy force their members to do Telefon-Sex on TS mhhh thats scary Wanna fly with me?
Nafri	Posted - 2004.09.06 10:07:00 - [148] hõõ? do thy want to hear on TS "YEAH I MINED 200000m¦ VELDESPAR TODAY!" or "The ammunation is ready in corp hangar"?? well maybe thy are into some special addiction to voices and thy have to do RP sex on TS every evening or thy force their members to do Telefon-Sex on TS mhhh thats scary Wanna fly with me?
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.09.06 10:13:00 - [149] No one else finds it weird that this character posted once, then never again? I can see a few corp join offers in this thread, perhaps that's what he was after? 1day Char Seeks Easy Way In? [Heterocephalus glaber]
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.09.06 10:13:00 - [150] No one else finds it weird that this character posted once, then never again? I can see a few corp join offers in this thread, perhaps that's what he was after? 1day Char Seeks Easy Way In? [Heterocephalus glaber]
Wren	Posted - 2004.09.06 10:29:00 - [151] Yeah Disco, it's all an evil plan. --------------------------------------------------
Wren	Posted - 2004.09.06 10:29:00 - [152] Yeah Disco, it's all an evil plan. --------------------------------------------------
Vegeta	Posted - 2004.09.06 16:17:00 - [153] Originally by: Discorporation No one else finds it weird that this character posted once, then never again? I can see a few corp join offers in this thread, perhaps that's what he was after? 1day Char Seeks Easy Way In? Discorporation he posted under an alt, I actually believe I know who the real poster is, although I will not disclose as he obviously wants it kept secret. 2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
Vegeta	Posted - 2004.09.06 16:17:00 - [154] Originally by: Discorporation No one else finds it weird that this character posted once, then never again? I can see a few corp join offers in this thread, perhaps that's what he was after? 1day Char Seeks Easy Way In? Discorporation he posted under an alt, I actually believe I know who the real poster is, although I will not disclose as he obviously wants it kept secret. 2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
Riddari	Posted - 2004.09.06 16:25:00 - [155] Originally by: sutty So this guy is complaining because the corp was trying to be nice and let him down without actually mentioning his disability. Maybe because they felt uncomfortable talking about it to him, maybe not to embarrass him or somthing. That's not being nice, that's being nasty. Disabled people know they are disabled, tiptoeing around it insults them. ¼©¼ a history
Riddari	Posted - 2004.09.06 16:25:00 - [156] Originally by: sutty So this guy is complaining because the corp was trying to be nice and let him down without actually mentioning his disability. Maybe because they felt uncomfortable talking about it to him, maybe not to embarrass him or somthing. That's not being nice, that's being nasty. Disabled people know they are disabled, tiptoeing around it insults them. ¼©¼ a history
Hardin	Posted - 2004.09.06 16:32:00 - [157] We do have a deaf player in PIE. Sometimes I forget and try and give him orders on Ventrilo and then feel highly embarrassed... As a result of this we normally have a colleague who volunteers to relay all orders on Ventrilo to the gang chat channel. This normally works well but is ofc not quite as speedy and I do think our member does occasionally feel he misses out on the chat that goes on on Ventrilo.
Hardin	Posted - 2004.09.06 16:32:00 - [158] We do have a deaf player in PIE. Sometimes I forget and try and give him orders on Ventrilo and then feel highly embarrassed... As a result of this we normally have a colleague who volunteers to relay all orders on Ventrilo to the gang chat channel. This normally works well but is ofc not quite as speedy and I do think our member does occasionally feel he misses out on the chat that goes on on Ventrilo.
Sastria Kasadoraska	Posted - 2005.06.21 11:06:00 - [159] It looks like we need a 'chat to voice' plugin....
Quillan Rage	Posted - 2005.06.21 11:27:00 - [160] Edited by: Quillan Rage on 21/06/2005 11:28:07 Whilst it does suck, and no dount in real life would lead to a lawsuit of some sort, in eve it is surely up to the CEO of each corp who he does and doesn't allow in, especially if they deem TS necessary. Re: The insulting nature of the reason given. Whilst the person knows full well they are handicapped, people do find it very difficult to actually give this as the honest reason due to being programmed by today's society that it is politically incorrect and unless handled by kid gloves can often lead to a lawsuit. As a headhunter, I have learnt very quickly just how discriminating the city can be (reasons outside of being handicapped for individuals not being offered jobs have included racism, sexism and sexual preference) - The point is a multinational Investment Bank is never going to tell you the real reason but will skirt round the issue by saying "a candidate with more relevant skills came into the picture" Maybe if there were less lawsuits and overzealous individuals pushing political correctness down our throats everyday, the corporation in question would have had the confidence to give an honest answer. Lets face it - it was a no-win situation. Had the corp said outright that they were refusing entry on the grounds that the individual was deaf, and he had posted on the forum "I was refused entry because of my disability" I can guarentee that there would have been similar outrage from certain Eve players.
Lamb Chop	Posted - 2005.06.21 11:32:00 - [161] I don't generally post on forums but this thing is just rotten imo. We have a verbally challenged friend in one of our allied corps and i have never noticed it causing any problems on fleet ops. he just relies via gang chat. I suggest name of the corp should be mentioned and added to the Eve hall of shame. Further step might be a joint declaration of war on them from every corp and alliance that frequents these forums. That should make life interesting for them not to mention they will be able to claim most war decced corp in a MMORPG Guinness record. [DVRN] Co-CEO Lamb Chop
juduzz	Posted - 2005.06.21 11:34:00 - [162] necromancy 4tl But yer does suck ----------------------------------------------
Zhuge Liang	Posted - 2005.06.21 11:39:00 - [163] Originally by: Sastria Kasadoraska It looks like we need a 'chat to voice' plugin.... This thread is older than Wranglers socks. Don't bump old threads. ___________________________ If you find something in need of moderation mail [email protected], we have a fine selection of anti-troll products including the impressive Troll BegoneÖ (89% bleach), and the deadly Supa-XL MKII BanstickÖ.

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