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Vagabond VS Stabber Fleet Issue PVP

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Stygian Knight I.M.M	Posted - 2009.05.13 09:33:00 - [1] PVP ! (not pve) Can you post your opinions on this two ships. I am not asking about Stabber armor tank. I am pretty sure that if fitted that way he is more like Rupture fleet Issue and that is a totally different subject. Lets try to equip it and use it in a role of Vagabond is used today. What are good / bad stuff in that? What can stabber offer that Vaga cant, and in reverse?
Mish'Kala Minmatar FarSight Location and Recovery Services	Posted - 2009.05.13 09:40:00 - [2] Fleet Stabber is slightly faster (more lows for speed mods) and more maneuverable (sp?) but lacks the range advantage and extra High slot of the Vaga, not to mention the T2 resists. SFI with ambit rigs and a speed fit makes for a close approximation, but lacks the utility high slot for dealing with Intys and fast Frigs
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2009.05.13 09:46:00 - [3] plated fleet stabber and a extender vaga are very close in EHP, the vaga will be faster and be able to pack more dmg mods more easily with its shield tank. But the fleet stabber with a 1600m plate can still go pretty fast, do similar dmg but is able to fit an EW mod and a web and also use its smaller sig to a better advantage (not having extenders or shield rigs to ballon the sig) both are decent in pvp, just slightly different tactics and approch to fighting styles.
Stygian Knight I.M.M	Posted - 2009.05.13 09:52:00 - [4] fully plated Stabber (3x trimark, 2x eanm, dcu, 1600mm plate) now thats totaly different story from vaga. ( i know since i like flying that stabber). It's something of a hurricane strength in smaller body. But i am interested (since i havent trained for Vaga yet). Can SFI fit the Vaga role, and how good?
Darth Felin	Posted - 2009.05.13 10:10:00 - [5] Originally by: Stygian Knight But i am interested (since i havent trained for Vaga yet). Can SFI fit the Vaga role, and how good? Yes it can fit this role but it won't be able to match vaga's perfomance. Lack of falloff bonuses and spare high for neut are critical.
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2009.05.13 10:30:00 - [6] not since it lost its speed bonus, and got the extra low. The vaga is the buffered speed machine with the decent dmg still, sure a SFI will get close, but will be slower and have less HP and will do less dmg.
Wensley Minmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.05.13 13:06:00 - [7] Stabber has tracking bonus and smaller signature radius so will get a better quality of hit in an up-close fight as well as being harder to hit itself. It also has a utility mid slot that you can use to fit something like a tracking disruptor in. Personally I think they have different combat roles. Vagabond is a heavy tackler so is shield tanked and operates at range. The Fleet Stabber is a Rupture on steroids and gets in your face to unload its guns. Piracy Blog \| Rifter PvP Guide \| Rifter Video
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.13 13:22:00 - [8] Vaga - Shield Tank and Speed, more damge and range with AC's. FI Stabber - 1600mm RT Plate Armor Tank and bigger drone bay/mids for ewar/ very good speed for plated ship. In fact this is probably the fastest 1600mm plated ship in the game. Like other posters have said - the FIS is a Ruppi on steroids/T2 Ruppi. -- "If itÆs true that our species is alone in the universe, then IÆd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little" George Carlin
Neacail	Posted - 2009.05.13 13:36:00 - [9] Problem with doing what the vaga does with a SFI is that you're wasting its bonuses. The tracking bonus becomes obsolete as you can hit anything from 20km anyway. The much lower signature radius is killed by the shield buffer. The higher agility is hardly an advantage when orbiting 18km+ away. To top it off, you lose the Vaga's utility high, the damage, speed and falloff bonuses. It ends up being a slower, weaker Vagabond. The only advantage it would have is that it can track stuff like inties and AFs when they get too close, and you would be able to field med ECM drones for a bit more of staying power.
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2009.05.13 13:41:00 - [10] If your going to use a fleet issue for the same job as a vaga, you might as well just use a normal stabber and save a bit of cash for the next actual vaga

Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.05.13 16:08:00 - [11] Everyone else pretty much beat me to it. You can fit a fleet stabber like a Vagabond, but why would you want to? The damage is nothing special already, flying at Vagabond range without a falloff bonus is going to suck. Plus you don't get the Vagabond's damage bonus either so you'll have what, maybe 55-60% of the Vaga's turret DPS at that range? You don't have the Vagabond's very, very nice T2 resists so your shield buffer is kinda sketchy. No extra highslot for neut, etc. You get a larger dronebay I suppose and better tracking at close range if things catch up with you, but that's outweighed by the aforementioned loss of the neut. I am not flush enough to have both a Vaga and a fleet stabber at the moment but if I did I would definitely be flying the stabber like a 4-midslot rupture. The vagabond is pretty much the best at what it does and costs about the same, don't force the fleet stabber into it's role imho. __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Atwa Awta The Cadre	Posted - 2009.05.18 17:37:00 - [12] Edited by: Atwa Awta on 18/05/2009 17:43:50 I love my SFI I plate it rather than fly it like a Vaga: 5x 200mm Vulcan II (RF EMP/Barrage) 1x Y-T8 MWD 1x Warp Disruptor II 1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor 1x Small Cap Booster (200) 1x 1600 RT Plate 1x IFFA 1x EANM II 3x Gyro II 2x Projectile Ambit Extention I 1x ACR I 5x Warrior II 3x Whatever With my skills: - 1900ms - 30.2k EHP - 410 dps with drones and RF EMP (1.3km Optimal, 13km Falloff) - 366 dps with Barrage (2.6km Optimal, 19km Falloff) - Cap lasts 2m 14s with everything running I admit there can be issues with killing frigs that are orbiting closely due to lack of a neut. I did mess about with a faction setup (DG Scram, CN Web) in place of the Cap Booster and Fleeting Web but its adds a few 10s of millions to the cost of the setup and compromises the cap somewhat. Make what you will of this Edit: Iirc you might need a cheap faction EANM if you go for the faction setup.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.05.18 18:27:00 - [13] muninn-wannabe [Stabber Fleet Issue, frig? what frig?] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Power Diagnostic System II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Shadow Serpentis Warp Disruptor Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Ancillary Current Router I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Hammerhead II x3 Hobgoblin II x2 - putting the gist back into logistics
MukkBarovian	Posted - 2009.05.18 18:50:00 - [14] If you take both ships with the exact same setup, 2 LSE nanos, ect. The stabber fleet issue is cheaper than the vagabond, and preforms slightly poorer, although the agility of the stabber fleet issue is very nice. But if you want to make one change to that setup and fit a scrambler, the stabber fleet outpreforms the vagabond. The tracking bonus means alot more at short range. The reason to fit a scrambler? To kill other small fast ships. So you've got a couple tools in the stabber hull for doing different things. The plated setup is also nice but you're right, suddenly it feels alot more like a rupture.
Lloyd Loar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.18 21:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Roemy Schneider muninn-wannabe [Stabber Fleet Issue, frig? what frig?] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Power Diagnostic System II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Shadow Serpentis Warp Disruptor Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Ancillary Current Router I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Hammerhead II x3 Hobgoblin II x2 Please tell me you are joking.
Potrero Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.05.24 20:16:00 - [16] Edited by: Potrero on 24/05/2009 20:17:12 Originally by: Lloyd Loar Originally by: Roemy Schneider muninn-wannabe [Stabber Fleet Issue, frig? what frig?] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Power Diagnostic System II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Shadow Serpentis Warp Disruptor Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Ancillary Current Router I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Polycarbon Engine Housing I Hammerhead II x3 Hobgoblin II x2 Please tell me you are joking. If you're emulating the Muninn you'd want sensor boosters and a tracking computer in the mids. Maybe range rigs in the lows. Not sure what you'll have gained by this. Muninn is probably cheaper at this point and does a better job.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.05.24 20:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Atwa Awta Edited by: Atwa Awta on 18/05/2009 17:43:50 I love my SFI I plate it rather than fly it like a Vaga: 5x 200mm Vulcan II (RF EMP/Barrage) 1x Y-T8 MWD 1x Warp Disruptor II 1x Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor 1x Small Cap Booster (200) 1x 1600 RT Plate 1x IFFA 1x EANM II 3x Gyro II 2x Projectile Ambit Extention I 1x ACR I 5x Warrior II 3x Whatever With my skills: - 1900ms - 30.2k EHP - 410 dps with drones and RF EMP (1.3km Optimal, 13km Falloff) - 366 dps with Barrage (2.6km Optimal, 19km Falloff) - Cap lasts 2m 14s with everything running I admit there can be issues with killing frigs that are orbiting closely due to lack of a neut. I did mess about with a faction setup (DG Scram, CN Web) in place of the Cap Booster and Fleeting Web but its adds a few 10s of millions to the cost of the setup and compromises the cap somewhat. Make what you will of this Edit: Iirc you might need a cheap faction EANM if you go for the faction setup. Why do you use small guns on a SFI ? --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.05.24 20:58:00 - [18] The biggest difference is the absolutely insane tracking on the Fleet Stabber. Where the Vagabond is good against cruisers and up, the Fleet stabber ****s cruisers and down. Range and damage like on the Vagabond is all fine and dandy, but if you can't hit what's the point?
Sergis Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.24 22:12:00 - [19] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida The biggest difference is the absolutely insane tracking on the Fleet Stabber. Where the Vagabond is good against cruisers and up, the Fleet stabber ****s cruisers and down. Range and damage like on the Vagabond is all fine and dandy, but if you can't hit what's the point? Give me a break ive rocked so many interceptors in my vaga over the years. Tracking is not a problem when using 220mm vulcans so do not use it as an argument point.
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.05.25 06:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida The biggest difference is the absolutely insane tracking on the Fleet Stabber. Where the Vagabond is good against cruisers and up, the Fleet stabber **s cruisers and down. Range and damage like on the Vagabond is all fine and dandy, but if you can't hit what's the point? I tend to find that the vagabond is really unfairly good against cruisers and below because it does nasty things to frigates if it has a little bit of range to play with, but I get the sense that a fleet stabber would be a ship that you could plate, fly into a frig blob, and open up with dual webs and D180s and just massacre everything whereas the vagabond would be kiting them as best as it could and wearing them down from range. __________________________________ Originally by:** CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.

Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.05.25 06:44:00 - [21] Originally by: Terianna Eri I tend to find that the vagabond is really unfairly good against cruisers and below because it does nasty things to frigates if it has a little bit of range to play with Most definitely, Vagabond is awesome if you have the initial range or can get the range, which is not always the case now that scramblers are back in heavy use with the twist. Originally by: Terianna Eri but I get the sense that a fleet stabber would be a ship that you could plate, fly into a frig blob, and open up with dual webs and D180s and just massacre everything whereas the vagabond would be kiting them as best as it could and wearing them down from range. Exactly, doesn't even need twin webs, the tracking bonus is that good. It is, as far as I am concerned, the only ship I refuse to tackle in my MWD/AB Vengeance simply because it will kill me even in a tight AB orbit. Originally by: Sergis Give me a break ive rocked so many interceptors in my vaga over the years. Tracking is not a problem when using 220mm vulcans so do not use it as an argument point. Not arguing the one thing that sets it apart from the ship it is being compared to? .. that makes no sense. And yes, a Vagabond will handily kill a MWD sig interceptor or other frig burning towards it, so will any other ship so please don't use it as an argument (seems a silly way to discuss, wouldn't you agree?). If you want to experience how much the tracking matters, use the fall-off rigs and orbit like you would in a Vagabond (18-22km) at full speed. Or better yet, try hitting an AB frig that has you scrammed and webbed.


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