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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
yrliner
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Posted - 2009.05.13 14:29:00 -
[1]
Hey their times came an gone. their dinosaurs. get rid of them. you took out the lottery no one has a chance to get one. it's a unfair advantage. OK admit it. you should of never put them out . lotto max run bpc at ML 0 sure but the BPO was a unfair advantage . you made invention bad for everyone else low low low success rates on good ships, the Material level is junk. come on negative ML not even a 0 at least you get a 0 ML 2 run bpc rig in mag sites guys. the data cores you need. wow You gave a hand full of players t2 bpo's to set the market how ""THEY WANT"" preaty much a BPO to print isk. an all us new small fish are ripped off . ... Tons of hours of skill training. hours an hours of exploring for decryptors and if your real lucky you might get a few mechanical engineering ones. The research points per day per agent is so low. come on guys. their is no way 3 people can even dream of comeing close to comepteing with 1 guy with a tech 2 bpo. that is wrong, wrong,wrong. turn all tech 2 bpo's into use them an loose them max run bpc's an get rid of them. even out tech 2 playing field accross the board. or ""OR"" turn all tech 2 bpc into max run bpc with out stupid decryptors or make decryptors modify numbers of bpc's make all bpc Material level 0 productivity level 0 and researchable. that way if i want to build of a decent 15 run vagabond print i can let me train the research skills an time to do so. make it more fair. i still wont compet as well but with the low success rates you guys set in place and the week or two i'd speend research a max run bpc to build cheap. it evens out the field. Tech 3 is junk. Tech 2 BPO'S is wrong AND YOUR CURRENT INVENTION SYSTEM IS POOR. you guys set regular players up to fail an handed out gold to a lucky few.I know it. You know it. SOLVE IT MAX RUN BPC'S THAT ARE RESEARCHABLE make decryptors add numbers of bpc's or take out TECH 2 bpo's NUFF SAID.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Shadow Devourer
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Posted - 2009.05.13 14:36:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
Hey their times came an gone. their dinosaurs. get rid of them. you took out the lottery no one has a chance to get one.
Stopped reading there. You can buy one.
This argument has been beaten to death.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.13 14:39:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Shadow Devourer
Quote:
Hey their times came an gone. their dinosaurs. get rid of them. you took out the lottery no one has a chance to get one.
Stopped reading there. You can buy one.
This argument has been beaten to death.
Your avatar is scary. 
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LaboratoryOperation V
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Posted - 2009.05.13 14:42:00 -
[4]
That's not how you use the shift key bro.
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yrliner
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Posted - 2009.05.13 14:46:00 -
[5]
well guess not because a lot of people very upset by them. The ships I like to build I could never purchase. lol. And It is very wrong. so until they get rid of it or change the current system I'll keep beating. people can join in an help or. bash me dun matter. only way to make EvE better is for us to get together. They can not say that they are not a unfair advantage because they are. they have to agree they current system is unfair to us inverters, because it is. We have to tell them to change it. offer them viable Ideas that make sense. so I did.
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Tvaishk Suzuki
Long Night Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.13 14:47:00 -
[6]
May I point out here that they don't really need to players themselves are slowly but surly destroying the t2 Bpo's and when these where released into the game invention was not even on the drawing board so there's no need there to make it sound like your accusing ccp of favoritism.
Also run the numbers there are actually many T2 items where one guy inventing can make more than the guy with the bpo just because of the volume they can put out, A t2 bpo is a bit bottle necked when it comes to building, so that while they do cost less in materials they can't even come close to keeping up with demand.
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Lieutenant, Mixed Metaphor
Appliance Man |
yrliner
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Posted - 2009.05.13 14:48:00 -
[7]
Sorry only have the use of one hand and after my stroke had to relearn to use it. but i'm getting better. I get caught up in what i'm saying . not so much in how its being said
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yrliner
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Posted - 2009.05.13 14:53:00 -
[8]
not ships only a couple of ships you can actually make isk. but not everyone is into profit. I am a corp builder for the sole purpose of pew pew. An on the destroying of the T2 bpo's very few are being destroyed. Most are very safe an secure in hi sec. once properly researched theirs no way a invented bpc can out build a bpo. its basic math. oooh i love debates. alot of good points. too bad we do not have teleconferencing. but still. a -1 limited run bpc cannot compete with a max run research BPO.
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:17:00 -
[9]
ummmm let me get this straight...you want tech 2 bpo removed because you think the tech 2 bpo holders have some sort of unfair advantage at making money?
You also think that tech 2 bpo holders have some sort of control on the market or something like that?
Here are a few facts for you. Ill even use your vagabond as an example (or just a HAC in general really). Last report was that there were about 20 BPO for any tech 2 ship that had bpo released (this includes all the bpo that can no onger be used as they are help by banned players or canceled accouts). Each BPO with research and using an advanced medium assembly array makes 7 ships in 6.5 days. that means BPO holders produce at most 140 ships a week of any particular HAC like the Vagabond. Last HAC I looked at on the market sold more than 200 HAC a week in Jita alone. Now add in that some BPO are not in production (due to players being banned or quiting) and you can see that atleast half the HAC on the market in Jita alone are produced by people doing invention. Now add in the HAC that get sold in other regions as well and you will see that most of the HAC on the market are being sold by people doing invention. Those inventers are controlling the market. even if all the Vagabond BPO holders got together and decided to put up vagabonds at something close to thier build cost you would never notice a price change because the inventors or some other player would simply buy them all up and resell them at the current prices.
Before you think that all the cost problems for tech 2 items is due to greedy tech 2 bpo holders, think about the fact that there is no way tech 2 bpo alone would ever fill demand for most ships, and that without invention prices would likely be much higher than they are now. It is a simple fact of supply and demand. If a tech 2 BPO left in production all the time has no chance of meeting demand, people will pay more for what it produces. Unlike tech 1 items were the market is so full of items and ships that supply greatly exceeds demand making it worthless to build most tech 1 items as you can find them one market cheaper than the cost to build one.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:24:00 -
[10]
all BPOs are converted into 100run BPCs
fixed
it's not about anything but this -> removal of all STATIC non-consumable resources in the game.
missions cycle. roids pop. complexs spawn randomly.
BPOs and Moons are the only static isk faucets left in the game. They are also the most valuable. They do need to be fixed.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Shadow Devourer
This argument has been beaten to death.
You are tired of the argument, so it should go away? Nice argument. 
Originally by: Selak Zorander
stuff
Good points, but you still don't tackle the glaring truth: BPOs are an inexhaustible resource.
Not only that, you cannot obtain one without paying a current BPO holder whatever he decides it is worth. Yes, that is what is called an unfair advantage.
If you could obtain a BPO the same way they were obtained originally, it would be ok.
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Shadow Devourer
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:37:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Shadow Devourer on 13/05/2009 15:37:59
If t2 bpos are as awesome as you think buy one like I said above. Oh you want it through the lottery well too bad. That was an unfair system and it's good it was removed but it would be just as unfair to remove t2 bpos from people who've bought them.
Stop e-raging, get your own. If you can't afford it, too bad.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:39:00 -
[13]
stop feeding this troll.. the t2-bpo-horse is already six feet under.
/thread
Forge '07 on Sale
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:59:00 -
[14]
Maybe reenabling possibility to get t2 BPOs somehow will help... Something really hard but still possible... For example converting
Thousand Runs of BPC to BPO... Possibility of ME research and no need of invent anymore will compensate really big cost...
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I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Shadow Devourer
If t2 bpos are as awesome as you think buy one like I said above. Oh you want it through the lottery well too bad. That was an unfair system and it's good it was removed but it would be just as unfair to remove t2 bpos from people who've bought them.
Stop e-raging, get your own. If you can't afford it, too bad.
who is e-raging?
i like your logic by the way. let me try:
hey, if bpos are so worthless i suppose i could go out and buy one for a couple hundred mil
unfair to REMOVE them? how so? name one time when ccp sited isk invested by players as a valid reason to change/not change a game mechanic? As i remember the 'i just bought a machariel w/ t2 rigs and snake implants' argument held tons of weight during the speed nerf.
Originally by: Tres Farmer
stop feeding this troll.. the t2-bpo-horse is already six feet under.
/thread
lol, what? trying to lock the thread or something? i think your missing blue bars above and below your post mate. 
we all appreciate the bump
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Shadow Devourer
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Posted - 2009.05.13 16:47:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Shadow Devourer on 13/05/2009 16:49:02
CCP don't care about player investment when it comes to ship balancing. Doesn't mean they'll destroy player assets because you want them to.
No point discussing it further. Use eve search. Educate yourself.
Originally by: Tres Farmer
stop feeding this troll.. the t2-bpo-horse is already six feet under.
/thread
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Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.13 17:17:00 -
[17]
I've said it in another thread and I'll say it again:
Save up money, buy the T2 BPO and trash it. (Non-existent) problem solved.
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lumy
I've said it in another thread and I'll say it again:
Save up money, buy the T2 BPO and trash it. (Non-existent) problem solved.
I can do that with YOUR ISK !.
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yrliner
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:13:00 -
[19]
Sure tech 2 BPO'S are not a problem for you guys who are running your macro mining accounts. send out the miners. go buy a few t2 bpo's at 4 to 100 bil a pop sit in hi sec build at your when ever. Oh lets not forget those of you buying up isk with good ole credit cards. sure just swipe an buy up what ever you like. build build build who cares.
You honestly tell me that the average person truely playing the game by design is not affected by it. Sorry,your wrong. I'm running 4 R&D agents I'm not at max RP per day yet but that's still what in the 100's with max skills. . I'm using Ship invention references is what I enjoy doing. I'm knocking down almost 5 Mechanical engineering data cores a day. even with max skills I'll be lucky to get 3 decent inventions a week on Hac's . Through in a -4 Material level 1 run bpc . on average i get 4to 5 bpc's out of 10 with data core skills 5 an encryption 5 an I've had some 1 an 2 success rates. you don't tell me go buy it. you don't tell me it's all fair an you don't tell me it will upset the balance of eve. You guys just to lazy. I am doing this the right way. Just because you all are lazy an cannot see how it is wrong to everyone doing it the right way then X out an go play with your credit cards an macro miners. At least I do Play the game as it was intended. I do see how it should be Improved. I am glad I'm not so lazy as to swipe my credit card an macro mine like a lazy person an ,play fair for all. As so should the Developers choose to be Fair to all an slap you guys upside your heads an delete your T2 BPO's an make you work some.
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:43:00 -
[20]
Originally by: yrliner
Sure tech 2 BPO'S are not a problem for you guys who are running your macro mining accounts. send out the miners. go buy a few t2 bpo's at 4 to 100 bil a pop sit in hi sec build at your when ever. Oh lets not forget those of you buying up isk with good ole credit cards. sure just swipe an buy up what ever you like. build build build who cares.
You honestly tell me that the average person truely playing the game by design is not affected by it. Sorry,your wrong. I'm running 4 R&D agents I'm not at max RP per day yet but that's still what in the 100's with max skills. . I'm using Ship invention references is what I enjoy doing. I'm knocking down almost 5 Mechanical engineering data cores a day. even with max skills I'll be lucky to get 3 decent inventions a week on Hac's . Through in a -4 Material level 1 run bpc . on average i get 4to 5 bpc's out of 10 with data core skills 5 an encryption 5 an I've had some 1 an 2 success rates. you don't tell me go buy it. you don't tell me it's all fair an you don't tell me it will upset the balance of eve. You guys just to lazy. I am doing this the right way. Just because you all are lazy an cannot see how it is wrong to everyone doing it the right way then X out an go play with your credit cards an macro miners. At least I do Play the game as it was intended. I do see how it should be Improved. I am glad I'm not so lazy as to swipe my credit card an macro mine like a lazy person an ,play fair for all. As so should the Developers choose to be Fair to all an slap you guys upside your heads an delete your T2 BPO's an make you work some.
you think that all tech 2 bpo owners are macro miners and GTC sellers that spend tons of real money to get tons of isk in game? And all of that just so they can have a BPO that will earn back the isk they payed for it only if they keep it in production for 2+ years??? Does that even make the slightest bit of sense?
Yeah it may seem unfair that some people have been playing this game for years and got lucky to receive a nice tech 2 BPO from the horribly broken tech 2 lottery. But its also not fair to those long time players to have their BPO suddenly changed to a max run BPC or to just have the BPO disappear all together. The subject of tech 2 BPO has been raised so many times since the lottery was removed (it comes up either every month or every other month on atleast one of the sections of the forums (sumetimes in multiple sections) that the Devs have just stopped responding to these threads. They have answered before that they have NO plans to remove tech 2 BPO from the game (other than BPO lost due to normal game mechanics or due to account bans). There is no need for them to repeat that fact every single time one of these threads comes up.
Yes I do play this game as it was designed (macro mining or selling gtc for isk). No I dont see all those tech 2 BPO holders as affecting me much. I see all the guys doing invention as the ones most affecting me. and they do it two fold:
1 - They sell tech 2 as high as they can because they think they deserve to charge 2 to 3 times what it cost them to make things
2 - on the One tech 2 bpo i have access to, if i sold it anywhere near my costs to make, they would buy up all my production and resell it and make more profit reselling my stuff than i would making it thus is some ways i am forced to sell at or near their prices, and to be honest, why would i not sell near their prices?
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yrliner
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Posted - 2009.05.13 20:27:00 -
[21]
Never said All was responding to the previous posts. Personally. This has absolutely nothing to do with profits. I sell hardly anything on the market. the only things I do is just to recoup lost invention cost. So honestly I do not care of nothing for profit margins. who's t2 bpo you have , have access to. My only Point is. Threw normal game design They are unavailable. not by lottery or invention. Threw game design it is a unfair tool. exploited, by other gamers. Weather obtained threw the original lottery, or saving all your isk. The derived Invention system is hogwash an in no ways allows for fair competition in no way shape or form. The build cost stinks. the success rates are poor. based on the amounts of time an energy I have expended on skills , research agents, standings with factions an Corporations. by in no way shape or form comes remotely close to the outputs. Their is a far better way then rock, paper, scissors. Invention by definition alone is insulted by the current system. I'm in no way entering a profit debate . margins or otherwise. it is shear numbers. BPO holders maintain a hassle free building advantage plain an simple. even without researching. they can just copy the darn thing all day an still beat feet better then normal conventional methods. Only thing you guys are worried about is you pocket books. you should be ashamed of yourself. All I want is a better game for everyone new an old. An plain removal of t2 BPO' is not the ''ONLY"" solution i offered that is viable. CCP want to coddle the lazy, an macro miner an credit card swipers. ""AN TO THE FEW I BET SURE FEW THAT GAIN THEIR BPO LEGITIMATELY THREW LEGITIMATE PLAY"" { I do commend anyone with the determination to grind out billions of isk to obtain a bpo threw regular game means to be honest}keep em. revamp invention with something more applicable to the skills an time consuming manner with you have to operate. Like was previously suggested. Make it more fair. better ML . Serious who in the world would invent something so inefficient to build . Henry Ford's first Mass Produced Car was way more efficient with way less waste. This game is suppose to be eons in the futer an were building 40% less efficient then 1900's .....Dev's Please.... Wake up Right Your Wrong Guys.
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Tvaishk Suzuki
Long Night Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.13 20:29:00 -
[22]
Btw Yrliner why don't you buy Datacores off the market there's plenty there and you can still make a profit, you dont need to rely on your own r&d agents, most of your complaints would be sorted if you did this as you could build more faster that way.
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Lieutenant, Mixed Metaphor
Appliance Man |
ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.05.13 20:41:00 -
[23]
fix your wall of text, then i might actually bother reading it.
and no, ppl that has t2 bpo's should be allowed to keep them.
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yrliner
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Posted - 2009.05.13 21:06:00 -
[24]
Why should I have to buy from everyone else . why not fix the system. You guys so insecuer that you cannot survive without t2 BPO's. Is that it. All I hear. Whats wrong with a guy wanting to play the game as they should be able to without having to fork out 12 mil per invention to run 8 inventions an maybe he might get to build 1 Command ship with poor ML. I cannot even get a 0 ML . See you guys just keep posting same dribble over an over. an you do not see the point. You Refuse to See it. Dev's trying to ignore it. As long as the little guy is the only one getting shafted then who cares that the invention system is ""Wrong"". Who cares t2 BPO's were a bad idea from the start. Should be removed . Who cares you guys would be lost in the real game world. Get mad. Call me Names. I'm still right. Your still wrong. Period. Make EvE Fair an right for Everyone.
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Kaitou Shiroi
Hakata Group
Blade.
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Posted - 2009.05.13 21:30:00 -
[25]
yrliner, it sounds like you haven't discovered decryptors yet. Also, fix your damned wall of text. I stopped reading 3 lines through because there was 0 formatting. Also, try playing for longer than 5 months before complaining about broken systems.
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Unless specifically stated otherwise, the opinions expressed in my posts do not reflect those held by my corporation or alliance.
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Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.13 21:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: yrliner
Why should I have to buy from everyone else . why not fix the system. You guys so insecuer that you cannot survive without t2 BPO's. Is that it. All I hear. Whats wrong with a guy wanting to play the game as they should be able to without having to fork out 12 mil per invention to run 8 inventions an maybe he might get to build 1 Command ship with poor ML. I cannot even get a 0 ML . See you guys just keep posting same dribble over an over. an you do not see the point. You Refuse to See it. Dev's trying to ignore it. As long as the little guy is the only one getting shafted then who cares that the invention system is ""Wrong"". Who cares t2 BPO's were a bad idea from the start. Should be removed . Who cares you guys would be lost in the real game world. Get mad. Call me Names. I'm still right. Your still wrong. Period. Make EvE Fair an right for Everyone.
I think you're playing wrong game. Eve isn't fair. (Neither is RL, by the way.) Get used to it.
Also your "little guy" argument is flawed. Most of current T2 BPO holders either had to grind R&D for them, or had to buy them for MUCH more then they are worth now. So CCP will not remove any in-game assets that their owner rightfully gained. Be it super-capitals, T2 BPOs, R64 moons, unique ships... whatever.
And finally: I'm right. You're wrong. How do I know? Because I can actually spell "you're" as in "you are" correctly.
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
yrliner
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Posted - 2009.05.13 21:51:00 -
[27]
Oh your so smart a decryptor to boost a invention over ML -1 go find it contract it over to me .
I do not care if you read it. Dev's should be reading it. played well over a year. Same junk from the same people. I swear . Stop reading Cry about this an that . Fact still the facts you cannot hide it. They Botched Inventions An it needs fixed. Just by the way you people act reinforces the fact that t2 BPO'S need removed. Decryptors an their impact on invention only 3 are worth anything an their not worth much. Cheap shots at My account age and my text. grammar. Still cannot address the real Issues. You guys politicians in real life. When you cannot logically debate a topic you sling mud name call or evade a topic. I suffered a stroke. loss half the use of my body. An I still have more logical function an sense to see that the system is bad an needs fixed. Fix invention Dev's Right the wrongs. guys.
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Mistmare
Heavy Influence
Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.05.13 21:58:00 -
[28]
please learn to put paragraphs into ur texts... it's a pain in the ass to read ur texts... I'll just ignore them until you start putting paragraphs in :)
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yrliner
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Posted - 2009.05.13 22:31:00 -
[29]
Allowing the existence of tech 2 BPO's with the current Invention process is a unfair practice. This should of never been allowed by CCP. I hope that the only reason they have allowed this to continue is a lack of ideas or options to resolve this.
First I purpose the modify the current system to do away with negative ML and PL, and changing all inventions to Max run blueprint copies. No modification of base success rates would need changed with this system.
Second. Decryptors. They are junk. aside from the modified success chance they only relay benefit in a few inventions . They should be changed to not modify the ML or PL but add to the number of max run bpc copies you receive along with their bonus modifier. better the bonus modifier the fewer bonus copies you receive. or just dew away with them that would free up lots of database .
Third. R&D agents need a higher level of research points per day out put , a lower cost on data cores, or cut the amount of data cores on inventions with more then 2 data cores required per attempt buy 50%.
Fourth. If you are so affraid you'll upset so many people by removing t2 BPO's then make the above changes to allow the regular guy a more fair chance . The t2 BPO's still have no point or need in the game.
Fith. The decision of CCP to ignore this issue should not be based on the few people who have them. Nor should it be based on the Player Market. This is the Player market. The developers have no right to mess with the market. It is Your job to make the game "" Fair an Balanced"" For Everyone who plays.
The current system is by far from fair. An it is by far from balanced. You pride yourself in promoting the best game play,balance an most innovated game out on the market. Yet you have your regular inventers building Warships with far less efficiency then a 1900's Model T Ford Factory.
Right your Wrong.
their formated better?
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.13 22:57:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Trimutius III on 13/05/2009 22:57:51
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
fix your wall of text, then i might actually bother reading it.
and no, ppl that has t2 bpo's should be allowed to keep them.
Original color of quoted text is changed
MY EYES... This Acid color is killing them and ur text is impossible to read because of color...
And yet there should be a way to make new t2 BPOs... Maybe really hard one but should be one...
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I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
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