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Axearm Thunk'um	Posted - 2009.05.14 18:07:00 - [1] That is the question I need help with. Because of RL concerns IÆd like to make my account self sustaining though the purchasing of PLEXs. So I thought IÆd ask for your help, and suggestions. IÆve investigated a couple ideas; Setting up a moon mining operation as per a posting by Brock Nelson a while back. He mention it not being difficult, relatively safe but a bit of work. IÆve been trying to get the capital together to start that but I think IÆd need a bit of hand holding here. Continued trading, but at this point I think it is going to take significantly more ISK to get to the 300M a month point. IÆve been doing station trading primarily. Perhaps region orders are the way to go? Manufacturing. IÆve started making some high demand items in a low sec FW hub but it is mostly ammo with and even with good margins there just isnÆt enough volume. Even with Frigates IÆd need to sell many, many more. Research Alt. IÆve read about this a bit but not enough to make an informed decision. Plus IÆm not sure I want to delete any of my characters at this point So I guess IÆm asking for advice and suggestions and possibly a mentor. I understand everyone is busy and has their own stuff to do but any help would be very much appreciated. Some information on me. I currently have about 800M (300M is cash, 500M in the market) I have three characters 1) This main who is PVP and trader oriented (1 year of training) 2) Another 0.0 PVP character from a roommate (1 year of training). 3) A miner/posting alt who I have yet to mine with (1 month of training).
Saehta	Posted - 2009.05.14 18:15:00 - [2] Funny that you mention moon mining as it is a topic I am currently researcing Sorry, no helpful thoughts there I know
Ultranoia Temple of THEM	Posted - 2009.05.14 18:30:00 - [3] I found three low-grade slave omega implants within a week in 0.6 space at the first belt I warped to But - why do you have 300M sitting idle? Toss a good chunk of it in the market. 825M moving nets you more than 500M.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.14 18:34:00 - [4] You'll have to work it, but it is possible to get 300m a month from trade alone. Mostly you'll be camping station orders for 3 to 4 hours at peak times in Jita
Companion Qube	Posted - 2009.05.14 18:44:00 - [5] I hate to say it, but we're not exactly going to hand you an opportunity to make 300M/mo. If we saw that opportunity we'd take it ourselves rather than giving it away, and if we gave it away on MD it would be pounced by 50 bajillion people. Here's a pro tip, figure out what's making the bulk of your money by looking at your past trading and expand those activities. There are a couple of good tools for this, I prefer EVE WalletAware. Once you've got hard data (really, only the last 2 weeks are relevant in most cases) take a look at what's making the most money. Chances are very good that there are 10-15 or so items making 85-90% of your isk and the rest are just a trickle of profit. Drop the trickle and don't look back, spend the time you've saved by not having to update those orders figuring out why your top performers are top and expand into other items that share these qualities. Also, look at how long it takes you to move items - don't be afraid to get into items with a high churn rate that only net 20%, if you can net 20% per day instead of 60% or 80% per week you're far better off over time.
HillAnt Amarr HillAnt Corp	Posted - 2009.05.14 18:53:00 - [6] If we give you a match you will be warm for a minute but if the your spark of life strikes you as a thunder you will be warm for life. I wouldn't want much direct advice, except for the practicalities. You won't get much direct advice (names of item to sell/manufacture/reprocess/etc or name of profitable hub) from any trader worth listening to either. Well actually you may run into someone that gives you a great deal but they will probably demand more then 50% of the rewards or even demand that you give them everything so you can see whats possible, but remain encouraged to actually think something up yourself.
Darcon Kylote Canadian Imperial Armaments Aggression.	Posted - 2009.05.14 18:54:00 - [7] You can make close to 300mil/month producing racial carbides from low end moons if you can find and hold them(tungsten carbide, titanium carbide, etc). The numbers work best with large caldari towers running a simple and a complex in each tower (this is the most fuel efficient setup). The downside to the caldari towers is emptying silos every 40 hours. But if you can log in for 10 mins/day every day, it's certainly doable. However, that just gets the product from the silos to a station. The really time consuming part is hauling your products to market and hauling fuel back to your towers. Two towers producing racial carbides produces about 24k m3 per day. That's two trips in a T1 hauler. Let's say it takes you 90 mins per day to fuel, empty silos and haul. And let's assume you don't get ganked in your T1 hauler in lowsec. So you're looking at 300mil/30 days/1.5 hours = 6.7mil/hr. Plus the capital investment of 1.2bil or so plus the risk of having those assets in lowsec. A hulk mining veldspar makes 9-10mil/hr right now. A level 4 mission runner should be making, what, 20-30mil/hr? Now if you have the muscle to hold medium to high end moons it's a whole different story. But that's not an option for the little guys. I've been down the moon mining road and personally I've found a mixture of manufacturing (T2 mods) and opportunistic trading (on an empire trader/freighter alt) gives me the best isk/time/fun ratio.
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2009.05.14 18:58:00 - [8] If the question is just "How to make 300M a month", the obvious answer would be: run missions. That will get you 300M a month easily. FREE! jumpclone service - over 200 locations!
Bonhomme Carnaval	Posted - 2009.05.14 18:59:00 - [9] Go to Jita and scam for a few (can be 1, can be 16) hours. 300+ millions if you're determined and patient. Spend the rest of the month trading a bit for fun and taking your time. I made 5 billions in 6 days with the freeform PLEX scam. That's with 6 scammees. I stopped for the day when I got a hit so it was 3-4 hours per day. Alternatively, you can run some highsec L1/L2 complexes and make 300m in a week or two. I ran the Pithi ones for a bit.
Biruni Khan	Posted - 2009.05.14 19:00:00 - [10] Originally by: HillAnt If we give you a match you will be warm for a minute but if the your spark of life strikes you as a thunder you will be warm for life. Wat?
Companion Qube	Posted - 2009.05.14 19:09:00 - [11] Originally by: Estel Arador If the question is just "How to make 300M a month", the obvious answer would be: run missions. That will get you 300M a month easily. How the hell did I miss this opportunity? You're so right.
Axearm Thunk'um	Posted - 2009.05.14 19:18:00 - [12] Thanks Darcon, I'm not asking for the exact modules to use or what specifically to manufacture in a particular region (but I'll take it if you got it!). Rather I was wondering, how are all of YOU making your 300M a month, generally. Sounds like a good mixture of things I've looked into myself, moon mining, manufacturing and trade, which is comforting. I did notice no one mentioned research, is there just not enough money in it? Also to you profession mission runners, do you just run the missions and skip the salvage loot? As for why the 300M is sitting idle, I just recieved it from my roommate who quit. Before I dropped it into the market I wanted to see if there might be other area's I should be exploring. I appreciate all the feed back and if anyone else has advice/suggestions. I'll take it. Originally by: Darcon Kylote You can make close to 300mil/month producing racial carbides from low end moons if you can find and hold them(tungsten carbide, titanium carbide, etc). The numbers work best with large caldari towers running a simple and a complex in each tower (this is the most fuel efficient setup). The downside to the caldari towers is emptying silos every 40 hours. But if you can log in for 10 mins/day every day, it's certainly doable. However, that just gets the product from the silos to a station. The really time consuming part is hauling your products to market and hauling fuel back to your towers. Two towers producing racial carbides produces about 24k m3 per day. That's two trips in a T1 hauler. Let's say it takes you 90 mins per day to fuel, empty silos and haul. And let's assume you don't get ganked in your T1 hauler in lowsec. So you're looking at 300mil/30 days/1.5 hours = 6.7mil/hr. Plus the capital investment of 1.2bil or so plus the risk of having those assets in lowsec. A hulk mining veldspar makes 9-10mil/hr right now. A level 4 mission runner should be making, what, 20-30mil/hr? Now if you have the muscle to hold medium to high end moons it's a whole different story. But that's not an option for the little guys. I've been down the moon mining road and personally I've found a mixture of manufacturing (T2 mods) and opportunistic trading (on an empire trader/freighter alt) gives me the best isk/time/fun ratio.
Chaos Dreams	Posted - 2009.05.14 19:26:00 - [13] Trade will ultimately be your best bet, but you're going to have to invest time and effort into learning your products, routes, ect. Until then, you have the tools to make the money you need. You have 2 pvp toons with a year of training. That means they either have, or can easily get with just a few days training, the skills necessary to run level 4 missions. They should also be capable of 0.0 ratting. Either activity can provide enough funs per month to pay for you account, without spending excessive amounts of time at it. Also, you have a miner with a month of training. That means it should be roughly at the level of flying a retriever. Another month or two and it should be able to fly a hulk. Mining in a hulk for 2-3 hours a day in highsec should easily provide enough ISK for a plex, in a retriever it'll probably take you twice as long. If you're not earning enough ISK per month to buy a plex with those options at your disposal then you're not really trying. Figure out which one (or combination) works best for you and your situation and go with it.
Chaos Dreams	Posted - 2009.05.14 19:33:00 - [14] Originally by: Axearm Thunk'um I did notice no one mentioned research, is there just not enough money in it? Also to you profession mission runners, do you just run the missions and skip the salvage loot? Can't speak on the research, never done it. But for mission running, it depends. Mostly it depends on how fast you're doing missions, and also on who you're doing missions against. If you're doing them super fast (like 15-20 minutes per level four) it will usually be more ISK-effecient to just go on to the next mission. Then it depends on who you're fighting, what sort of salvage they drop, what kind of mods you can loot, and how scattered the wrecks are. For example, serpentis is rarely worth salvaging because you have to spend too much time traveling between wrecks because they're all spread out. Angels and Mercenary wrecks are almost always worth it because they're usually in clumps and you'll get either good loot and/or good salvage. Empire factions and rogue drones, if you're not going to loot and salvage don't bother doing these missions. Either way, if you're going to loot/salvage invest in a dedicated salvage boat.
Maxwell Terallis	Posted - 2009.05.14 19:50:00 - [15] Originally by: Axearm Thunk'um Thanks Darcon, I'm not asking for the exact modules to use or what specifically to manufacture in a particular region (but I'll take it if you got it!). Rather I was wondering, how are all of YOU making your 300M a month, generally. Sounds like a good mixture of things I've looked into myself, moon mining, manufacturing and trade, which is comforting. I did notice no one mentioned research, is there just not enough money in it? Also to you profession mission runners, do you just run the missions and skip the salvage loot? As for why the 300M is sitting idle, I just recieved it from my roommate who quit. Before I dropped it into the market I wanted to see if there might be other area's I should be exploring. I appreciate all the feed back and if anyone else has advice/suggestions. I'll take it. Ninja Salvaging can make you 15-20M isk per hour. put in about 20 hours a month to ninja salvaging and there's your 300M.
Lecherito	Posted - 2009.05.14 19:51:00 - [16] Look up my column "The Isk Keeper" mate. Contrary to what the **** above me said about traders worth a damn not giving up info, I've detailed everything I've done on the way to making my fortune. It really is just trial and error, figuring out what works, and keeping your losses low when it doesn't. Loads are loads of people who make the kind of money your'e talking about, it's just that different activities/setups work for different people. You have to experiment to determine what works for you. -L
dr doooo	Posted - 2009.05.14 20:55:00 - [17] Haven't read the whole thread, but my 2 cents. It's too early for you to be thinking of running an account off of plex's. How much of that isk did you inherit with your room-mates char? How much isk do you make atm? Getting to play free is something that you are going to have to work out for yourself. It's not just everyone being tight with their isk secrets, but more a case of horses for courses. Depending on your play style, you will be buying plex, selling, or somewhere in the middle. As usual, there is no easy mode of having your cake and eating it.
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.05.14 21:44:00 - [18] Research makes reasonable passive income but the lead time is long. For example, if you log in once a day to turn in tritanium you can expect 12 datacores a character ( special science skill at V, negotiation IV, 5 agents @ 2 DC each + 2 mission DC ). In addition you'll get 2 level IV storylines a month doing this, with a decent chance of an implant. That's about 12 million a day -- enough for your GTC and a tiny bit left over. The same R&D alts can also be used to make 6 BPC copies each. Even if they only get 3 jobs done a month each that's still 18 jobs x 20 copies x 3 alts = 1080 prints. Valued at 100k each that's a bonus 108M isk/month. You can jump clone to 0.0 or middle of nowhere lowsec to find lightly used copy slots. The alts can also keep market orders open. Once trained up to PE V you can run t2 component production jobs -- always profitable, low risk, low investment. It's entirely possible for a passive industry account to fund itself and one other on a very low time investment per week. Downside is: you need about 9 months per account to get them to this point. And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question?
Teras Menac Gallente Action Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.14 22:28:00 - [19] It's easy to make 300m a month. 800m in market trades is PLENTY to capitalize 300m per month. 1) Run 20 L4 missions. That's not even one per day. They should be worth at least 15m a piece. 2) Get half your money in high speed trades. 3) Get the other half into long-term trades and buy orders. Basically you want to separate your trades into tiers. Things you expect to move slow, things you expect to move fast, and then in between rates. Things that move fast for instance are common T2 items, ABs, Cap Rechargers, Power Diagnostics, Turrets of all sizes, Missile launchers. Setup buy orders on items where the purchase price is lower than the value of the minerals. There are lots of things like that out there on the market. You can resell these items or not as you please. Also, look at The Slow Sell System for Lazy Traders, this will give you the basics on your slow items. For your fast items find popular mission hubs and sell the right kind of ammo, guns and mods for that level of mission. L3 systems are good places for mediums L1s for smalls, L4s for large. L2s and L3s will give you a chance to sell some of the Meta 2, 3, and 4 items for the people who want to change their setup real fast. L4s are good places to sell the high isk items. Look at Contracts, watch for when an item is underpriced by 10% or more. A Caldari Cruise Launcher in Jita for 35m is pure isk, flip it immediately for 40m isk. Don't do an auction they are annoying, just sell it straight away for 40m. Trust in transaction velocity. Try to deal around 10% profit margins and you can't go wrong. If you can get better then that's awesome, but if you are looking at the profit margin alone then you are missing out. It's better to get a lower margin but have made a sale and then turn that around in a short amount of time. For instance. Say your Widget II is going for 500,000 in that system, buy orders are 150,000. You try to get the most out of it so you put it on the market for 500,000, it sells in like three days. Meanwhile I come in and put a buy order for 200,000, and sell them for 350,000. My margin is MUCH lower, but I am buying and selling buying and selling, buying and selling many times over. I sell like 5 in a day, while you were logged off. You come back on and reset your widget to the price I was selling at buy meanwhile I got 5 sales in like an hour, and finally a week later you sell yours. Don't be afraid to abandon a market. Pump it for all it's worth, trash it and then move on. Set price floors at which you are willing to buy up all the competitions stock. But also set a quantity ceiling. Like: 500,000 Ammo for 110 isk when you were selling for 150 isk. What often happens in the course of a bidding war is that a bubble occurs. Like three people compete in the bidding war and bring the price way down, but there is this big gap between the third best price and the fourth best one. Sometimes it's worth it to buy all the stock of the lower price and reset the price in the station at just under the fourth's stock, eliminating competition from your two competitors and hopefully discouraging them from coming back because they got bought out at a profit margin they didn't like. I know it's possible that I am creating several competitors by doing this, but **** it, I can handle it. ;) It is WAY too easy to make money in this game. The only thing that offsets it is how easy it is to spend money. Have some discipline, turn that 800m into 1.2b and then take your 200m and say that's your spending money, then take that 1b and turn it into 1.4b before you take another 200m from it. Then again to 1.5b. I just broke 1b for the first time today because I've lost A LOT of Battleships getting the hang of this game. So to recap 1) Missions to increase your wallet 2) High Yield Trades 3) Low Yield Trades/Buy Orders
PublicRelations Kwint Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2009.05.15 01:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Axearm Thunk'um Setting up a moon mining operation as per a posting by Brock Nelson a while back. He mention it not being difficult, relatively safe but a bit of work. IÆve been trying to get the capital together to start that but I think IÆd need a bit of hand holding here. It is not relatively safe, at least not by comparison to virtually any other means of making a living. Ask a vet while they refuse to invest in moon mining IPO's. The answer is not one straight up mining IPO has ended well in living memory. Originally by: Axearm Thunk'um Continued trading, but at this point I think it is going to take significantly more ISK to get to the 300M a month point. IÆve been doing station trading primarily. Perhaps region orders are the way to go? Ya, having to pick up tiny quantities of stuff from hundreds of locations is definitely an improvement. Originally by: Axearm Thunk'um Research Alt. IÆve read about this a bit but not enough to make an informed decision. "I've read but not enough to make an informed decision" is a great title for this article, perhaps you should change it to that. Anyways.... To make a decent income you need to do one of these things, 1) implement a clever idea (find a lucrative niche market) 2) commit a lot of time (run missions) 3) have a large amount of capital to work with (high volume margin trading) If you actually expect someone to tell you what their highly lucrative niche market is then you're more than uninformed. Otherwise, enjoy the extra time spent playing because that's pretty much the only upside relative to simply getting a real job. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Fat Buddah	Posted - 2009.05.15 01:45:00 - [21] If your RL situation forces you to rely on PLEX for account subscription, shouldn't you be doing something else rather than spending your time online trying to make 300M/month of game money?
Vidi Angelus Caldari Crystal Dynamics Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.05.15 04:45:00 - [22] Just remember that if your putting in 10-20 hours to earn the 300m and it feels like work (isnt enjoyable) its much quicker to work a couple of hours in RL to pay for the subscription, i can make ú15 in an hour/ hour and a half if I just ask the neighbours if they want their car washed for example, if you arnt working (else just an hour or two overtime a month).
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.05.15 05:37:00 - [23] Buy junk modules, reprocess them and sell them back to mission-runners as ammunition in mission-running hubs. Your only investment there is the well-researched BPO collection, and starting capital for your first buy orders. Start a mineral compression service (XL ammo is apparently quite good for mineral compression). Buy mission belts from mission-runners, mine the belts with your three characters while you're busy managing your buy/sell orders. Not a single shot needs to be fired.
Mystafyre Caldari Dark Materials Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.05.15 06:05:00 - [24] Originally by: Axearm Thunk'um That is the question I need help with. Because of RL concerns IÆd like to make my account self sustaining though the purchasing of PLEXs. So I thought IÆd ask for your help, and suggestions. IÆve investigated a couple ideas; Setting up a moon mining operation as per a posting by Brock Nelson a while back. He mention it not being difficult, relatively safe but a bit of work. IÆve been trying to get the capital together to start that but I think IÆd need a bit of hand holding here. Continued trading, but at this point I think it is going to take significantly more ISK to get to the 300M a month point. IÆve been doing station trading primarily. Perhaps region orders are the way to go? Manufacturing. IÆve started making some high demand items in a low sec FW hub but it is mostly ammo with and even with good margins there just isnÆt enough volume. Even with Frigates IÆd need to sell many, many more. Research Alt. IÆve read about this a bit but not enough to make an informed decision. Plus IÆm not sure I want to delete any of my characters at this point So I guess IÆm asking for advice and suggestions and possibly a mentor. I understand everyone is busy and has their own stuff to do but any help would be very much appreciated. Some information on me. I currently have about 800M (300M is cash, 500M in the market) I have three characters 1) This main who is PVP and trader oriented (1 year of training) 2) Another 0.0 PVP character from a roommate (1 year of training). 3) A miner/posting alt who I have yet to mine with (1 month of training). Get a part time job. Do one hour of work each month. Ka-Ching! And you earned yourself a plex!
Rudy Gnarl	Posted - 2009.05.15 06:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Fat Buddah If your RL situation forces you to rely on PLEX for account subscription, shouldn't you be doing something else rather than spending your time online trying to make 300M/month of game money? Mystafyre made the point even clearer . . . still Buddah I got give it to you, that is funny. Teras, thanks for the plug.
Jolla Skyia	Posted - 2009.05.15 09:05:00 - [26] Edited by: Jolla Skyia on 15/05/2009 09:08:31 I think you need to focus on one thing.. Seems like you are trying too many different things and you will never be able to maximize any of them. Personally I'd just stick to trading, if you want passive income. I just started doing it two days ago. I stuck two alts in two large trading hubs trained each to trading level 2 and gave them each 20 mil to start with. Today the alt in Jita has just at 50mil worth of sell orders and I've already sold out of most of the things I started with and restocked. The second alt is in a different hub but one of the larger ones and he's up to about 40 mil worth of sell orders. Granted they are sell orders and not money in my wallet, but I've been re buying and reinvesting everything on new items and so far I've been selling pretty good. The only problem is to keep growing it will mean having to keep more open orders which can require more time. Right now I can only do 13 orders on each alt.
oldfrogger's broda	Posted - 2009.05.15 11:10:00 - [27] try plex on jita - seems to be a high profit item actually think twice before doing it ... bad idea to play with almost half of your isk (there are rumors that smone is playing it atm ... so expect prices to go down in a few weeks)
Miilla	Posted - 2009.05.15 11:58:00 - [28] You can make over 1 Billion a month in salvage alone.
Samroski	Posted - 2009.05.15 13:47:00 - [29] The first thing you should do is to train wholesale and tycoon, so that you have around 300 market orders. Making a million per order per month, even if you deal in crap items, is entirely possible :)
Teras Menac Gallente Action Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.15 15:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Rudy Gnarl Teras, thanks for the plug. Sure no prob, it was a good thread that laid out the basics of the market style. I've been plugging it to a lot of people. I make a lot of money but I also up until recently spent a lot because I was a soft target in a BS. Now I am starting to actually get my head above water, but other people who don't want to devote themselves to full-time trading have been asking me how to do it so they can make some cash. I give them your thread.

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