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Armour Buffer Omni-Resists

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Neuronai	Posted - 2009.05.15 13:00:00 - [1] I'm trying to find the best set of modules for an omni tank on a Dominix. With 7 slots, 3 are occupied by 1600mm plates which leaves 4 for resists. What is the best way to use these slots? At the moment I have: [Dominix, EANMs] 1600mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Armor Explosive Hardener II Damage Control II Stats: EM = 73.2 Thermal = 65.1 Kinetic = 65.1 Explosive = 75.7 EHP = 103637 Will using 4 hardeners be better? [Dominix, Hardeners] 1600mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Crystalline Carbonide Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Stats: EM = 77.5 Thermal = 70.8 Kinetic = 70.8 Explosive = 59.5 EHP = 90455 Despite the lower EHP and the explosive hole (about 6% lower than the lowest resist on the first setup), this set up yields higher resists for other damage types. So the question is, which should I go with? If anyone has a better suggestion, please feel free to put it foward. N.B. My armour compensation skills are only at II, so the EANMs may give better resists at higher levels.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.15 13:11:00 - [2] Do you expect to get alot of RR? If not, why care about your resists, you want as much EHP as possibly. But dont even consider undocking a pvp domi without damage control fitted. You can do 3 hardeners, but i would either go for 3x eanm or 2x eanm + explo hardener (with the lack of ships doing explosive damage i would just go for 3x eanm)
Neuronai	Posted - 2009.05.15 15:53:00 - [3] Originally by: Furb Killer Do you expect to get alot of RR? If not, why care about your resists, you want as much EHP as possibly. Because resists->EHP.
Renarla	Posted - 2009.05.15 16:08:00 - [4] 123k EHP 475 DPS Cap stable with boosters. [Dominix, Give Me Remote Reps] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Warp Disruptor II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Heavy Nosferatu II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Ogre II x5 Warrior II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Ogre II x3 Garde II x5 However, on another note, I now have one of those annoying sigs.
Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis	Posted - 2009.05.15 16:10:00 - [5] Originally by: Neuronai Originally by: Furb Killer Do you expect to get alot of RR? If not, why care about your resists, you want as much EHP as possibly. Because resists->EHP. What ? Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.05.15 16:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Neuronai Originally by: Furb Killer Do you expect to get alot of RR? If not, why care about your resists, you want as much EHP as possibly. Because resists->EHP. To a point, but plates can often give more EHP than a EANM.
Neuronai	Posted - 2009.05.15 16:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Valandril Originally by: Neuronai Originally by: Furb Killer Do you expect to get alot of RR? If not, why care about your resists, you want as much EHP as possibly. Because resists->EHP. What ? Higher resists means a higher total of effective hit points.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:18:00 - [8] If you wont receive remote reps and you buffer tank, EHP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Resists. Who gives a crap if all your resists are 0%, as long as your EHP is as high as possible.
Valandril Caldari Ex-Mortis	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:21:00 - [9] Originally by: Neuronai Originally by: Valandril Originally by: Neuronai Originally by: Furb Killer Do you expect to get alot of RR? If not, why care about your resists, you want as much EHP as possibly. Because resists->EHP. What ? Higher resists means a higher total of effective hit points. WHAT ? Do you een know how EHP is calculated ?:D Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator
honey bunchetta	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:24:00 - [10] Edited by: honey bunchetta on 15/05/2009 17:24:09 What are you going to be using it for?. For solo you want a active tank, but even with that your catchable/holdable/killable target selection will be very limited. In smaller RR gang combat good resists can be more benificial as the alpha and incoming dps will be lower than in a blob fight as well as the fact that it will also decrease with every kill you make. A combo of reasonably plugged resists and multiple plates/armour rigs to increase your armour EHP is the better option for large RR gang combat.

Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol Total Comfort	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:32:00 - [11] In my opinion EVE is spiraling out of control in relation to this whole BUFFER idea. I see (and fit) solo ships for PVP with nothing but a ridiculous buffer. Not a single rep. Probably part of the reason for this is because an active tank takes capacitor and it doesn't repair as much HP as you would have if you had a plate fitted instead. Seriously, do the math. A 1600mm Reinforced Rolled gives 4200 HP. A LAR gives what, approximately 1000 rep? So that means you need to run 4 cycles to beat a plate. If you run 3 plates, you need 12 cycles of NON-PLATED tank to make up (12 cycles by the way is 2 1/2 minutes). So it doesn't add up. People are going for more and more buffer. It in my opinion is almost game breaking. Solo tanks are only reserved for those who are really sure of their fits and go deadspace/faction, because in one cycle you can rep over 3000 armor if you know what's up. It's just really lame. I mean for crying out loud I plate my damned Velator. www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.quafeultra.com
Neuronai	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:40:00 - [12] Edited by: Neuronai on 15/05/2009 17:42:01 Taking a look at the way EVE calculates EHP...Deactivating an EANM II for instance (which gives higher RESISTS when online) reduces the calculated EHP by 7210. When the EANM II (resist booster) is online, EHP increases. Therefore, it can be said that a higher resist percentage gives an increased EHP. What don't you understand about that?
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:45:00 - [13] His question was wrong, i think he meant to ask if you even have a clue what EHP is. If you have, you would know that for a buffer tank (assuming no RR), EHP > resists.
Neuronai	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:46:00 - [14] Originally by: Furb Killer Who gives a crap if all your resists are 0%, as long as your EHP is as high as possible. This. [Dominix, Plates only] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] EHP=81459 [Dominix, Plates with 2 EANMs] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] EHP=96389
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:49:00 - [15] Edited by: Furb Killer on 15/05/2009 17:50:34 Reading isnt your strongest point, is it? I even bolded the important part. But since you really dont get it, let me tell it again: When you purely buffer tank without expecting RR, you want as much EHP as possible. That is your only goal, alot of EHP. (There can be some secondary considerations that plates slow you down, eanms take more cpu, etc). In principle you dont care if you have 10k HP with 90% resists of 100k HP with 0% resists, it is exactly the same.
Neuronai	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:53:00 - [16] What? What is it you're trying to say? "who cares if your resists are 0%" is what I see. It matters because EHP is partly derived from resistances! You can only gain the highest possible EHP by using high resistance as I just illustrated. I can read just fine thanks.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:54:00 - [17] Edited by: Furb Killer on 15/05/2009 17:54:46 READ THAT: Quote: as long as your EHP is as high as possible. Come on, it isnt that hard to get. You want as much EHP as possible, it doesnt matter how you get there. Therefore EHP > Resists
OMGNOTANOTHERALT	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:55:00 - [18] Saying "EHP > resist" makes no sense since EHP is calculated from resists, therefore higher resists = higher EHP. OP knows what he's saying.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.15 17:57:00 - [19] Sadly ehp is also calculated from fitted rigs and plates. If you want to buffer tank you want as much ehp as possible. If ehp isnt more important as resists, then you switch all your low slots for resist mods (and your rig slots too).
Jhagiti Tyran Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2009.05.15 18:02:00 - [20] Everyone's making it complicated, an effective remote rep tank comes in two parts:- Part 1, Having enough buffer to soak up damage while your gang locks you and to absorb damage between rep cycles. Part 2, Having enough resists to make effective use of the incoming reps. If you don't have the right balance the incoming DPS can burn through the buffer and kill you by leaking damage between cycles but don't have enough resists and your wasting your gang members cap and the remote reps are not as effective. -

Guer	Posted - 2009.05.15 18:03:00 - [21] Edited by: Guer on 15/05/2009 18:06:30 if you're not using 1600 Rolled tungsten then you shouldn't even bother, its not like they're expensive. Also, OP sucks at reading comprehension, the point was you want your EHP as high as possible, a mix of resists and flat armor hp. If you're getting RR, you can sacrifice some EHP if you get significantly better resists, since it makes your RR more effective. FURTHERMORE, OP should know that EVE's in game EHP calculation uses the lowest resist, while EFT uses an even damage type distribution. Personally I'd go with EFT's way to calculate.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.15 18:04:00 - [22] Too bad this was about the case without remote reps
Neuronai	Posted - 2009.05.15 18:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Furb Killer If you want a buffer tank, you want alot of ehp. Thats it. Sure you often come there by also getting decent resists, but your primary concern is alot of ehp. And guess how a lot of EHP is gained? Oh right, resistance. So if my primary concern is a lot of EHP, I want to find the right balance of resistance and raw HP because a set up with raw HP alone has LESS EHP than a set up with LESS raw HP, but added resists as I bloody illustrated a few posts ago.
Processor Failbox	Posted - 2009.05.15 18:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Neuronai Originally by: Furb Killer If you want a buffer tank, you want alot of ehp. Thats it. Sure you often come there by also getting decent resists, but your primary concern is alot of ehp. And guess how a lot of EHP is gained? Oh right, resistance. So if my primary concern is a lot of EHP, I want to find the right balance of resistance and raw HP because a set up with raw HP alone has LESS EHP than a set up with LESS raw HP, but added resists as I bloody illustrated a few posts ago. Simply put, do you want to be Remote repped or solo? Hes already said: If you are remote repped you want higher resists (this way you live LONGER remote repped) . If you are solo go for as much EHP as possible. (this way you live LONGER solo) Another easy way to figure it out is knowing wtf stacking penalties are and what aren't effected by those penalties. (damage control for example)
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.05.15 18:13:00 - [25] This is the stupidest argument I've ever read.
Guer	Posted - 2009.05.15 18:14:00 - [26] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega This is the stupidest argument I've ever read. especially considering its pretty apparent that everyone in the thread knows how EHP and resists work, even the OP.
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2009.05.15 18:20:00 - [27] Originally by: Processor Failbox Simply put, do you want to be Remote repped or solo? Hes already said: If you are remote repped you want higher resists (this way you live LONGER remote repped) If you are solo go for as much EHP as possible. (this way you live LONGER solo) This. Higher resists make reppers, be they local or remote, more efficient whereas simply adding hit points doesn't help as much with repping. If you're not getting repped, all you care about is EHP be it from plates/extenders or resists. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
lecrotta Minmatar lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2009.05.15 19:32:00 - [28] Originally by: Processor Failbox If you are remote repped you want higher resists (this way you live LONGER remote repped) Depending on the gang size a good balance of armour resists and armour HP (the important part of your EHP) is best. Originally by: Processor Failbox If you are solo go for as much EHP as possible. (this way you live LONGER solo) For solo/1 v 1 pvp in a domi you will want a dual rep+high resistance active tank fed by a cap injector and NOS, and you use your reppers ect to keep your cap low or empty so your NOS continue to drain your target (cap managment ftw), a NOS domi fit can fuel a single LAR T2 and its tackle/hardeners ect with its NOS. The reason for using the active tank for solo is because a domi's DPS is normally very low compared to other BS and cos it can fit a great active tank in ALL its lows due to not using DMG mods like other short range BS setups. The solo/1 v 1 NOS domi wins by attrition more than sheer DPS, it drains the target ships cap to fuel its own reps and mods while its drones slowly chew through the target.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.15 20:29:00 - [29] Originally by: Neuronai Originally by: Furb Killer If you want a buffer tank, you want alot of ehp. Thats it. Sure you often come there by also getting decent resists, but your primary concern is alot of ehp. And guess how a lot of EHP is gained? Oh right, resistance. So if my primary concern is a lot of EHP, I want to find the right balance of resistance and raw HP because a set up with raw HP alone has LESS EHP than a set up with LESS raw HP, but added resists as I bloody illustrated a few posts ago. Serious do you even read your own posts? So you agree EHP is your primary goal? Than EHP >>>>> resists. You want high EHP. Yes partially you get that through resists, but you add those resists to get high EHP. So you want the combo which gives you the highest EHP, not the highest resists. So EHP>resists.
Neuronai	Posted - 2009.05.15 20:58:00 - [30] Edited by: Neuronai on 15/05/2009 20:59:16 Just to clear it up...This buffer is meant for small gang pvp, as two large armour repairers do not fit with the set of neuts i'm using. Originally by: Furb Killer So you want the combo which gives you the highest EHP, not the highest resists. So EHP>resists. I never said I wanted high resists alone, that's why I already have 3 1600mm plates on it. I was asking for the best resist combination making use of the slots which are usually used for resists on a buffer tanked Dominix. And it's been said before, "EHP is better than resists" does not make sense when resist values are what build on top of HP to produce EHP. This is a ridiculous argument and it's probably best to just drop it. Back on thread: I think a double rep Domi would probably be better for small gang pvp, but the grid requirements for the reps mean I can't fit heavy neuts...Running through EFT, it is however possible to fit 1 large armour repairer and two 1600mm plates.



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