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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 21 post(s) |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
559
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Posted - 2012.05.10 16:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alright folks, as stated in the latest FW blog, there are certain points in Factional Warfare that still need to be looked at after Inferno.
One of these are the NPCs; we all have grown to hate them as they jam you non stop for 5 minutes, or laugh at them when speed tanking them while capturing a complex. So, let's try to find ways to make them interesting here.
We have some ideas floating around, one of them is to:
- Upgrade their AI with target switching mechanics - just like Sleepers and Incursion Sanshas
- Revamp their attributes to be more on par with PvP fits, while still allowing new pilots to compete (FW barrier of entry is supposed to be low)
- Cut their respawn numbers - they should be used as an activity if there is no PvP going around, but not impair PvP when it is happening
- Possibly use them to assist a losing faction; for example, have tougher NPCs than usual spawn for a faction with less solar systems, or attack opposing members at gates (not neutrals)
Remember, all of these are just high-pitch ideas at the moment that are posted here to get your constructive input and a discussion going. So stay cool and remember, the spice must flow.
Another point where your feedback would be most appreciated is regarding your own experience facing them as they are right now:
- Think a FW NPC is plain broken, crap or annoying? Post its exact name here, and explain why and what. Again, please remember, this discussion is about FW NPCs, not mission / deadspace / Incursion / Sleepers or whatever (we know there are a lot of them to fix in other features as well, but let's not get lost here shall we?).
- What do you think about Navy NPCs when you go to enemy high-security space? What would you do about that?
- What about the standing mechanic that govern NPC attack behavior? When do you feel they should engage you? Low standings? Capturing a complex?
Thanks for your feedback. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
626
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Posted - 2012.06.04 13:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hey folks,
It's not because we aren't posting anything that we aren't following such threads
As a quick update, we first want to remove all EW from FW NPCs (starting with complexes, FW missions would not be affected for now). This should go out as soon as possible (working on it as we speak).
However, the proper way of fixing this on the long run would be to totally revamp the NPCs though, and that's something we highly consider for this winter as it is extremely difficult to do on its own (current NPCs are used in missions for example). There also are good points mentioned here that we will definitely consider when iterating on this further.
Many thanks for your time and ideas so far! |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
929
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Posted - 2012.08.31 16:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Come'on Ytterbium, press the "Post" button already. Ignore the other thread, Fozz got that covered!!!! Come ON!!!!!
Had to read the 15 pages of feedback on this topic first Will post something now.
Is the anticipation killing you?
Are we there yet?
How about now?
Now? |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
931
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Posted - 2012.08.31 16:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alright folks, as promised, here are some iterations we are planning for winter.
Remember, this thread will focus on FW NPCs and complexes, for War Zone Control and System Upgrade changes, please refer to this post.
- FW COMPLEX CHANGES
After reading the feedback from numerous community sources (had to read this post again to make sure we didn't forget any good point), we acknowledge that Factional Warfare complexes need to be changed and are high in our priority list.
* Capture beacon location: first, we want to move the capture beacon closer to the room entrance (0-10km instead of 60-70km) to promote fights next to the acceleration gate exit point and being able to intercept incoming hostiles more easily.
* Unify capture range: having 10, 20 and 30km range depending on the complex size is confusing and not needed anymore if we move the beacon closer to the room entrance. Thus we would like to have a capture range of 30km for all sized sites, so it's easier to remember for everyone.
* Increase contested range: at the moment an hostile pilot will only contest a capture timer if he is within capture range (whose reach varies depending on the point above). We want to move the contested area to the whole complex range, which would mean as long as hostile pilot is within your room the capture timer would be paused.
* Complex size and name changes: current complex sizes are confusing as some major sites have no acceleration gates, while others do. Plan is to revamp sites to 4 sizes: rookie (only tech 1 frigates allowed, no navy, pirate or tech 2 variant), small (all small ships, including navy, pirate and tech 2 variants - essentially all frigates and destroyers), medium (all cruisers, including navy, pirate and tech 2 variants - battlecruiser variants are not allowed) and large (unrestricted access).
- FW COMPLEX NPC CHANGES
We will be talking about complex NPC changes only here - we know FW mission NPCs need to be tackled as well, but for now let's focus on one problem at a time. Before we list the changes, the main activity we see for Factional Warfare is PvP. PvE should not override PvP in this feature, as such the NPCs need to be very specialized to meet the goals you mentioned in this thread.
* NPC attribute revamp: this means two things. First, making sure no faction has an advantage over another. For example, having some factions use missiles while other have turrets is a no go. The other is to make sure we prevent, or at least significantly reduce AFK farming without hampering PvP when it does happen. Current FW complex NPCs will be scrapped and replaced with new ones that have the following characteristics:
* Very low damage output - they can kill you if you stay in the complex without taking care of them for 15 minutes, but their damage potential is so small it won't hamper players if attacked by others while capturing. * Very high speeds: no matter what your fitting is, they will catch you. No endless Benny Hill music scene anymore. * No EW: no electronical warfare or any kind, as this would be destabilizing when PvP occurs * Have Sleeper AI: that means they will change targets according to your threat * Active tanking: NPCs will have an active tanking according to the complex size they are on to discourage players to tackle larger sites with undersized ships. For example, while Minor sites could have a frigate NPC easily killed in your own frigate, Major could have battlecruiser or battleships NPCs with a active tank extremely difficult to tackle on the same frigate.
Why do the active tanking point matter you say? Because:
* NPCs contest capture timer: as long as there is a NPC in the area the capture timer is paused, just like with an enemy player. Capture timer is only paused when attacking a complex. Defending a complex with NPCs of the same faction would not cause such pause. Coupled with the active tanking point above, it means that if you can't kill the NPC reasonably fast, you can't capture the complex.
* NPC number reduction: currently NPCs spawn by wave of 3-5 on a timer. Thus if you don't kill them in time you can be overrun by a large number of them. That was particularly a problem with EW NPCs, as while a few jamming NPCs is annoying but not a big deal, having 10-15 of them jamming you would prevent you from doing anything. Our goal is to change them to spawn sequentially one at a time, so the next NPC would not arrive until the previous one was killed. Again, PvE should not take over PvP in Factional Warfare.
* NPCs only spawn when no PvP is happening: NPCs spawn at a semi-random period of time, and only when the complex is attacked while there is no defending player. Technically that means NPC prevent AFK farming. NPCs do not warp away when a player from the opposing factions arrives. However, since they have very low damage and no EW, this wouldn't be much of a problem.
* NPC standing aggression revamp: it's currently very blurry to know when NPCs attack you and when they don't. Part of the NPC revamp is to have clear attack rules to know when they are going to attack you or not. A fallout of that is also to make standing gains from PvP / PvE more consistent in FW, as we have a lot of confusion with this as well. We still have to design details on this specific points, but there have been excellent suggestions on this thread we will look into.
Here you go, again, constructive comments are welcome |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
1186
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Posted - 2012.08.31 17:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bienator II wrote: so rather then changing the warpin i would like to see "backwards running timers" if you leave the plex.
That idea is definitely on our radar but we have not committed to it yet internally, still being discussed. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
1186
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Posted - 2012.08.31 17:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kuehnelt wrote:Amazing changes. CCP Ytterbium wrote:* Have Sleeper AI: that means they will change targets according to your threat
...
NPCs do not warp away when a player from the opposing factions arrives. However, since they have very low damage and no EW, this shouldn't be much of a problem. How apt are they to kill drones?
With the sleeper AI we basically have a slider to adjust their hatred of drones, we can take them all the way from "Member of NPCs for the ethical treatment of drones" to "Drones killed my parents and forced me into life as a sociopathic superhero" and anywhere in between.
So we'll tweak based on test server feedback. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
1187
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Posted - 2012.08.31 17:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mike deVoid wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:* NPC standing aggression revamp: it's currently very blurry to know when NPCs attack you and when they don't. Part of the NPC revamp is to have clear attack rules to know when they are going to attack you or not. A fallout of that is also to make standing gains from PvP / PvE more consistent in FW, as we have a lot of confusion with this as well. We still have to design details on this specific points, but there have been excellent suggestions on this thread we will look into. [/list] Here you go, again, constructive comments are welcome I probably shouldn't expose this but I currently benefit from being in Caldari FW and having very high Gal and Min faction standings (I used to be in Gal FW 2 years ago). Currently this means that offensive plexing is easy since I never get attacked by the NPCs, but conversely it means I can never run a defensive plex. What is going to happen to me when you 'fix' this?
We know about that, don't worry.
The NPCs should always consider faction membership above standings after the patch, so they'll shoot you like they shoot everyone in your faction. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
1193
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Posted - 2012.08.31 23:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Durrr wrote: it will be at least 6 months (if not a year) before the cruisers get some love
Sure about that? Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
1899
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Posted - 2012.10.15 13:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Wanted to point you guys towards the other thread where I'm posting some updates. Gonna use that one for consolidated feedback for this round of tweaks. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2468
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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
There's been a lot of changes and beta versions of the new FW plexes on Bucky lately, but what we have on there as of today is getting very close to ready. If you guys want to check them out we'd welcome feedback.
Known bugs: -The names of the beacons is currently incorrect and doesn't list which type (Stonghold, Installation, Facility) the plex is. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2470
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Posted - 2012.11.22 19:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
T3s are not allowed into Mediums, T2 cruisers are. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2470
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Posted - 2012.11.22 19:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:It will still result in HAC, Recon, and tech II logi gangs stomping on any tech I ships that might want to enter. This is fine out in the open. But that has been one of the great things about FW plexe restrictions is the fielding of tech I frigates and cruisers by everyone, new and old players. Changing the restrictions will render tech I cruisers not worth taking into that environment.
I disagree. Bring a recon in against a vexor sitting at 0 on the warpin and see what happens.
BTW for everyone testing, we are aware that the rats are currently not tanking quite as well as we would have liked. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2470
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Posted - 2012.11.22 19:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Posting here because it's FW-related. Are acceleration gates going to continue to make people invulnerable? **** is ridiculous.
The fact that someone can always enter a FW plex as long as they do not hang around outside for any length of time is intended design. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2470
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Posted - 2012.11.22 21:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:There's been a lot of changes and beta versions of the new FW plexes on Bucky lately (...)
If you guys want to check them out we'd welcome feedback.
feedback is still the same: - having the flag next to the warpin is uncool for various reasons (eliminates kiting ships, makes fight mechanics very similar to normal gatecamps etc.. as already discussed in this thread) - still nobody really answered why this change has been made in the first place esp in context with the other improvements in FW or the possible alternatives for encouraging fights. - i still haven't found a major plex (might be connected to the wrong plex name bug.. don't know)
The large plexes should be appearing as often as the Unrestricted do on TQ.
As for the kiting issue, as of the most recent builds the contesting range of each capture point in every plex is 30km. So you can be contesting the plex while sitting 40km from the entry point, and for fights that start elsewhere you have a bit of room to move around before even leaving contestion range. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2470
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Posted - 2012.11.22 21:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Posting here because it's FW-related. Are acceleration gates going to continue to make people invulnerable? **** is ridiculous. The fact that someone can always enter a FW plex as long as they do not hang around outside for any length of time is intended design. why?
Because the ship restrictions are rendered moot if instalocking camps can prevent entry. There are opportunities to catch targets either at the place they warp to the plex from (often a gate) or inside the plex, and fighting can occur outside as long as the interested parties do not immediately activate the gate upon landing. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2472
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Posted - 2012.11.23 13:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alticus C Bear wrote:So I went and got a Velator, the frigate in the rookie plex was able to kill me with no extra mods fitted, this may be due as much to my range and speed if the other rookie frigates have better range they may be able to run a rookie plex right out of the box.
Went back in another Velator with a few extra mods and drones, another NPC frigate apeared, first time I have seen a second NPC what causes them to spawn? Killed both NPC frigates though they did get me into armour.
Timer now stuck on contested, not sure why, could not see any more NPCGÇÖs and warped in and out but nothing happening. Must be stuck somehow, itGÇÖs in Fliet.
We're actually going to be removing Rookie Ships from plex access and renaming the Rookie plexes into something less confusing, due to concerns about the ease of defensive plexing with noobships. That hasn't made it into the current public build but should be represented on Bucky soon. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2482
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Posted - 2012.11.26 15:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
During the most recent Buckingham reboot we deployed an updated version of the NPCs, the larger versions especially should tank harder now.
The current mechanics are that one NPC spawns at the start, and the second only appears if you fail to kill the first quickly. If we find that gunless farming begins to return we can put more NPC spawns in at a later point, but in general we want as much of the danger and difficulty of these plexes as possible to be provided by pvp rather than pve.
Let us know what you think of the specs on these latest versions of the rats. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2483
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Posted - 2012.11.26 17:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Axl Borlara wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Lili Lu wrote:It will still result in HAC, Recon, and tech II logi gangs stomping on any tech I ships that might want to enter. This is fine out in the open. But that has been one of the great things about FW plexe restrictions is the fielding of tech I frigates and cruisers by everyone, new and old players. Changing the restrictions will render tech I cruisers not worth taking into that environment. I disagree. Bring a recon in against a vexor sitting at 0 on the warpin and see what happens. You are missing the point. Ok, yes you could start with a t1 cruiser in a plex. However, why would you not start by defending with a t2 cruiser? In which case, you'd attack using t2 as well. It works reasonably well now because in minor plexes, t2 frigates aren't allowed. Faction frigs are debatable, but in most cases, there are practical uses for t1 frigs. Same for mediums. t1 cruisers are used because that's the best available. (plus of course faction).
We'll keep an eye on it and can change as needed if the results aren't good. However I plan on using medium plexes to farm HAC kills using my T1 cruisers. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2484
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Anna Shoul wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Sounds like high-dps short range hulls are a "challenge" for this implementation of FW plexes? Me, I'm not sure that there's a point to have NPCs in plexes at all. Granted, it took me quite a while to kill that cruiser as my DPS isn't that high in that fit, but it certainly couldn't touch me. Maybe solo NPCs aren't really the way to go - a couple frigs to back it up could cause me problems.
The NPCs not applying much damage is intentional so that they don't discourage pvp as much as the current system. They exist as speedbumps, and other players are the main event. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2484
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Posted - 2012.11.26 18:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Do plex timers reset/tick down yet when people warp out?
Unfortunately we didn't have time to get that into the first Retri release. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
1351
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Posted - 2012.12.04 10:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
Unsticking, let's make some space for future threads. |
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