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Alena Sparta
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Posted - 2004.09.08 06:36:00 -
[1]
Ship refitting should be less plug-n-play, to give it strategic weight.
Give the refitting interface 'commit' and 'cancel' buttons. Kit out your ship the way you want. Selecting the Cancel button reverts to the previous ship config and closes the refit screen.
Choosing to commit a fitting means the ship is placed in a drydock service queue on that station. Until the ship is out of the queue and refitted, the player can't use it nor change its fittings.
Each high-slot item change (major, hull-interfaced ship systems) requires 1 day of refit time.
Each med-slot item change (major but internally housed ship systems) requires 4 hours of refit time.
Each low-slot item change (software programs and dimensionally small augmentation devices) requires 10 minutes of refit time.
For cruiser hulls, all times multipled by 2; for battleship hulls, all times multiplied by 3.
When freeing a slot (removing its item, but not replacing it with something else), cut the times in half.
Stations can have variable number of queues, to represent the extent of their drydock facilities to simultaneously service ships.
(Well, CCP can tweak the values; you get the idea.)
Open issues:
While refit screen is active, hanger and cargo items will have to be locked to prevent user from losing an item necessary for reverting ship config, like by disabling drag-n-drop, and disabling sell and trash context menu actions. Or, perhaps, just forget it: if a needed item is gone when reversion takes place, leave its slot empty.
How do you prevent adversaries from spamming the drydock queues of non-pc stations to slow down your refits? Use faction/npc-corp standing as prioritization weight? Impose queue quota per individual/corp? Disallow contiguous queuing by individual/corp?
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Alena Sparta
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Posted - 2004.09.08 06:36:00 -
[2]
Ship refitting should be less plug-n-play, to give it strategic weight.
Give the refitting interface 'commit' and 'cancel' buttons. Kit out your ship the way you want. Selecting the Cancel button reverts to the previous ship config and closes the refit screen.
Choosing to commit a fitting means the ship is placed in a drydock service queue on that station. Until the ship is out of the queue and refitted, the player can't use it nor change its fittings.
Each high-slot item change (major, hull-interfaced ship systems) requires 1 day of refit time.
Each med-slot item change (major but internally housed ship systems) requires 4 hours of refit time.
Each low-slot item change (software programs and dimensionally small augmentation devices) requires 10 minutes of refit time.
For cruiser hulls, all times multipled by 2; for battleship hulls, all times multiplied by 3.
When freeing a slot (removing its item, but not replacing it with something else), cut the times in half.
Stations can have variable number of queues, to represent the extent of their drydock facilities to simultaneously service ships.
(Well, CCP can tweak the values; you get the idea.)
Open issues:
While refit screen is active, hanger and cargo items will have to be locked to prevent user from losing an item necessary for reverting ship config, like by disabling drag-n-drop, and disabling sell and trash context menu actions. Or, perhaps, just forget it: if a needed item is gone when reversion takes place, leave its slot empty.
How do you prevent adversaries from spamming the drydock queues of non-pc stations to slow down your refits? Use faction/npc-corp standing as prioritization weight? Impose queue quota per individual/corp? Disallow contiguous queuing by individual/corp?
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Alena Sparta
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Posted - 2004.09.08 06:46:00 -
[3]
Additions:
Exempt noob frigates from queue.
Exempt new players ( <= 2 months old ) unless they are trying to refit a ship they have no skills for.
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Alena Sparta
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Posted - 2004.09.08 06:46:00 -
[4]
Additions:
Exempt noob frigates from queue.
Exempt new players ( <= 2 months old ) unless they are trying to refit a ship they have no skills for.
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2004.09.08 11:14:00 -
[5]
While this would make things more interesting and realistic, it would really gimp the game to the point where casual players wouldn't be able to do what they want.
If I want to mine today, I don't want to wait until next thursday to do it.
www.hadean.org
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2004.09.08 11:14:00 -
[6]
While this would make things more interesting and realistic, it would really gimp the game to the point where casual players wouldn't be able to do what they want.
If I want to mine today, I don't want to wait until next thursday to do it.
www.hadean.org
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.09.08 11:58:00 -
[7]
I can see the point of this, but I don't think it should take days and weeks to outfit a ship. There is already enough stuff you just spend your time waiting for in Eve, I don't think the game would be a lot better if refitting would take forever also.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.09.08 11:58:00 -
[8]
I can see the point of this, but I don't think it should take days and weeks to outfit a ship. There is already enough stuff you just spend your time waiting for in Eve, I don't think the game would be a lot better if refitting would take forever also.
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TAKI OKAWA
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Posted - 2004.09.08 12:55:00 -
[9]
woot?? are you serious about this?? i think already even simple tasks in EVE take hell lot of time and now you want to stretch it even further? no way, i am not here to wait a day or two for eveything i do. Somethings should be fast and less time consuming, maybe you have way too much time on your hands but not me. Sorry!
==================================================
Its not the size of dog in the fight but the size of fight in the dog which matters
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TAKI OKAWA
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Posted - 2004.09.08 12:55:00 -
[10]
woot?? are you serious about this?? i think already even simple tasks in EVE take hell lot of time and now you want to stretch it even further? no way, i am not here to wait a day or two for eveything i do. Somethings should be fast and less time consuming, maybe you have way too much time on your hands but not me. Sorry!
==================================================
Its not the size of dog in the fight but the size of fight in the dog which matters
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Claire Scott
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Posted - 2004.09.08 12:56:00 -
[11]
I sit in the hanger trying different loadouts to optimize my powergrid/cpu usage. This is a bad idea and an un-needed time sink.
-E
If you're not running with the pack, you're prey . . . |
Claire Scott
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Posted - 2004.09.08 12:56:00 -
[12]
I sit in the hanger trying different loadouts to optimize my powergrid/cpu usage. This is a bad idea and an un-needed time sink.
-E
If you're not running with the pack, you're prey . . . |
Thraxll
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Posted - 2004.09.08 13:22:00 -
[13]
More time sinks = less players.
"The long and short of it is that this game, or any game, is either going to be a kindergarten where it's safe and cuddly and secure and you can play with plush tigers, or it will be a harsh place, harsh but interesting and interesting because harsh, where you must take risks to succeed and so must everyone, since victory is tasteless without danger." - Raivn Akhama
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Thraxll
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Posted - 2004.09.08 13:22:00 -
[14]
More time sinks = less players.
"The long and short of it is that this game, or any game, is either going to be a kindergarten where it's safe and cuddly and secure and you can play with plush tigers, or it will be a harsh place, harsh but interesting and interesting because harsh, where you must take risks to succeed and so must everyone, since victory is tasteless without danger." - Raivn Akhama
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Vestor
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Posted - 2004.09.08 13:38:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Vestor on 08/09/2004 13:54:28
I strongly disagree with this suggestion.
First, this will make it near impossible to try out some combinations of weaponry and equipment for effectiveness in use.
Of course, if a cancel/ok button is added, you can see the cap and power numbers, but that certainly does not cover all aspects of a layout.
Secondly, I am an agent runner, and depending on the mission that is assigned, I would like to decide what kind of equipment to use, depending on my adversaries. By the time my new equipment is finished, my mission is over and my corp standing is lowered by .4!
Moreover, this 'feature' would only serve to give new players an artificial disadvantage against rich players. A rich player can afford to have an entire fleet of custom ships, while a player who is happy with his first cruiser is forced to choose equipment conservatively, since he doesn't know what he will come up against and is not able to adapt quickly.
Removing the option of adapting equipment to the situation totally destroys an important strategic aspect of ship operation, beacause if you are punished for switching ship layout.
Time is absolutely the most precous commodity in EVE, don't take it away for something as frustrating as this.
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Vestor
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Posted - 2004.09.08 13:38:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Vestor on 08/09/2004 13:54:28
I strongly disagree with this suggestion.
First, this will make it near impossible to try out some combinations of weaponry and equipment for effectiveness in use.
Of course, if a cancel/ok button is added, you can see the cap and power numbers, but that certainly does not cover all aspects of a layout.
Secondly, I am an agent runner, and depending on the mission that is assigned, I would like to decide what kind of equipment to use, depending on my adversaries. By the time my new equipment is finished, my mission is over and my corp standing is lowered by .4!
Moreover, this 'feature' would only serve to give new players an artificial disadvantage against rich players. A rich player can afford to have an entire fleet of custom ships, while a player who is happy with his first cruiser is forced to choose equipment conservatively, since he doesn't know what he will come up against and is not able to adapt quickly.
Removing the option of adapting equipment to the situation totally destroys an important strategic aspect of ship operation, beacause if you are punished for switching ship layout.
Time is absolutely the most precous commodity in EVE, don't take it away for something as frustrating as this.
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Jedran Black
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Posted - 2004.09.08 15:24:00 -
[17]
Silly idea.
3 days to fit a mining laser to my Apoc?
Again, very silly idea.
Keep thinking.
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Jedran Black
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Posted - 2004.09.08 15:24:00 -
[18]
Silly idea.
3 days to fit a mining laser to my Apoc?
Again, very silly idea.
Keep thinking.
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Elucidate
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Posted - 2004.09.08 16:08:00 -
[19]
I'd drop EVE like a hot potato if this 'tarded suggestion made it into the game.
'nuff said.
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Elucidate - Extraordinarily Lazy Miner |
Elucidate
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Posted - 2004.09.08 16:08:00 -
[20]
I'd drop EVE like a hot potato if this 'tarded suggestion made it into the game.
'nuff said.
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Elucidate - Extraordinarily Lazy Miner |
The End
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Posted - 2004.09.08 17:02:00 -
[21]
with all due respect
this is a horrible idea
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The End
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Posted - 2004.09.08 17:02:00 -
[22]
with all due respect
this is a horrible idea
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Zaldiri
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Posted - 2004.09.08 21:02:00 -
[23]
NO
THE END
Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA |
Zaldiri
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Posted - 2004.09.08 21:02:00 -
[24]
NO
THE END
Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA |
Tethis
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Posted - 2004.09.09 11:53:00 -
[25]
absolutely not. no way. never. i and alot of others would simply stop playing
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Tethis
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Posted - 2004.09.09 11:53:00 -
[26]
absolutely not. no way. never. i and alot of others would simply stop playing
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2004.09.09 12:09:00 -
[27]
YES.
Refitting should take time, say 1h/module atleast. Buy a different ship to different purpose. I don't see people hauling tonnes of cargo with nissan micra. Nor do I see people going to buy six-pack with 24 wheeler combination.
This option has one drawback, initial purchase of a ship. If you buy a new empty ship, it would take you 5-24 hours to refit it so you can actually use it.
To combat this, we need predesigned ships. You modify a BPO with selected fitting and get a Custom BPO, which now comes as locked. Then you build your new predesign ships with the BPO, minerals, and required equipment for fitting.
If you don't have the required equipment, tought luck on production.
This way we also get "branding" of ship designs. One might say I bough a brand new "Toyota Vexor" (standard T1 equipment) or "Bugatti Vexor" (hand crafted from best named mods available).
Would make market more interesting. The brand would mean something, but you could get to same result after spending some time customising a ship.
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2004.09.09 12:09:00 -
[28]
YES.
Refitting should take time, say 1h/module atleast. Buy a different ship to different purpose. I don't see people hauling tonnes of cargo with nissan micra. Nor do I see people going to buy six-pack with 24 wheeler combination.
This option has one drawback, initial purchase of a ship. If you buy a new empty ship, it would take you 5-24 hours to refit it so you can actually use it.
To combat this, we need predesigned ships. You modify a BPO with selected fitting and get a Custom BPO, which now comes as locked. Then you build your new predesign ships with the BPO, minerals, and required equipment for fitting.
If you don't have the required equipment, tought luck on production.
This way we also get "branding" of ship designs. One might say I bough a brand new "Toyota Vexor" (standard T1 equipment) or "Bugatti Vexor" (hand crafted from best named mods available).
Would make market more interesting. The brand would mean something, but you could get to same result after spending some time customising a ship.
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Cen Varis
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Posted - 2004.09.09 12:55:00 -
[29]
once you the the above options - it becomes much more interesting :)
selling ships with pre-equipped setups makes it more interesting.
Also - the time factor would encourage players to create non-optimal setups for a variety of missions/tasks.
of course - the setup screen should be able to be set/changed etc as much as possible without any time effects - but having a "create setup" button will put the ship into drydock for refitting..
Interstellat Cartographic League
- Cen Varis |
Cen Varis
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Posted - 2004.09.09 12:55:00 -
[30]
once you the the above options - it becomes much more interesting :)
selling ships with pre-equipped setups makes it more interesting.
Also - the time factor would encourage players to create non-optimal setups for a variety of missions/tasks.
of course - the setup screen should be able to be set/changed etc as much as possible without any time effects - but having a "create setup" button will put the ship into drydock for refitting..
Interstellat Cartographic League
- Cen Varis |
Caldorous
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Posted - 2004.09.09 15:25:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Cen Varis
selling ships with pre-equipped setups makes it more interesting.
yes and gives more place to scam...
If it is going to be a fitting time, it must be calculated with EXTREMELY caution because a change and it will wipe out more ppl than u can imagine
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2005.03.13 01:11:29combatYour 350mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar), wrecking for 0.0 damage.
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Caldorous
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Posted - 2004.09.09 15:25:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Cen Varis
selling ships with pre-equipped setups makes it more interesting.
yes and gives more place to scam...
If it is going to be a fitting time, it must be calculated with EXTREMELY caution because a change and it will wipe out more ppl than u can imagine
-----------------------------
2005.03.13 01:11:29combatYour 350mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar), wrecking for 0.0 damage.
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Drair Malone
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Posted - 2004.09.09 19:16:00 -
[33]
Stupid idea. I only use a Thorax, and I constantly refit it for quick travel or mining. If members of my corp want me to come mine in a far off system with them, I fit for travel so I can get there in time to actually mine with them. If this idea was in, my corp would need time machines to tell eachother about spontaneous mining ops, and as we all know, time machines don't exist.
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Drair Malone
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Drair Malone
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Posted - 2004.09.09 19:16:00 -
[34]
Stupid idea. I only use a Thorax, and I constantly refit it for quick travel or mining. If members of my corp want me to come mine in a far off system with them, I fit for travel so I can get there in time to actually mine with them. If this idea was in, my corp would need time machines to tell eachother about spontaneous mining ops, and as we all know, time machines don't exist.
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Drair Malone
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.09.09 20:02:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 09/09/2004 20:03:59
As should 'complete' repairs, this would encourage heavy PvP corporations/individuals to keep hangars stocked with ships.
Hotfixes should still be possible with the repair modules but not to an optimal state.
Convert Stations
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.09.09 20:02:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 09/09/2004 20:03:59
As should 'complete' repairs, this would encourage heavy PvP corporations/individuals to keep hangars stocked with ships.
Hotfixes should still be possible with the repair modules but not to an optimal state.
Convert Stations
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.09.09 20:23:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Noriath on 09/09/2004 20:24:51
Ok, the time factor would definatly do some good, that being that alround ships would become much more atractive again, right now you just equip your boat for whatever you are going to do in the next 5 minuites and then you just swich it around again to whatever you are doing next.
Still, a bad idea, the problem that there is never a reason not to optimize your ship exclusively for one single task can be resolved in a number of ways that don't involve waiting for stuff. God knows we are all sick of waiting for stuff in Eve... :D
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.09.09 20:23:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Noriath on 09/09/2004 20:24:51
Ok, the time factor would definatly do some good, that being that alround ships would become much more atractive again, right now you just equip your boat for whatever you are going to do in the next 5 minuites and then you just swich it around again to whatever you are doing next.
Still, a bad idea, the problem that there is never a reason not to optimize your ship exclusively for one single task can be resolved in a number of ways that don't involve waiting for stuff. God knows we are all sick of waiting for stuff in Eve... :D
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2004.09.10 10:28:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Hotfixes should still be possible with the repair modules but not to an optimal state.
This should be done by adding mineral requirements to repairs. So armour/structure repairers would need minerals/equipment in cargo hold in order to repair the damage.
Say that you blow a "phase sifting amplifier relay" from your stucture, then you need that equipment to fix it. If you don't have one, your structure repairs end there.
Maybe 15 different items for structure, and 5 items for armour. Something like
- Armour repair plate
- Armour connector
- Welding plate
- Copper paste
- ect..
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2004.09.10 10:28:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Hotfixes should still be possible with the repair modules but not to an optimal state.
This should be done by adding mineral requirements to repairs. So armour/structure repairers would need minerals/equipment in cargo hold in order to repair the damage.
Say that you blow a "phase sifting amplifier relay" from your stucture, then you need that equipment to fix it. If you don't have one, your structure repairs end there.
Maybe 15 different items for structure, and 5 items for armour. Something like
- Armour repair plate
- Armour connector
- Welding plate
- Copper paste
- ect..
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Ben Zarba
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Posted - 2005.01.17 16:59:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Alena Sparta
Ship refitting should be less plug-n-play, to give it strategic weight.
Absolutely no way I agree with this.
If I had my way I would get rid of all pointless delays in this game not add more. Why do we have to wait after docking before swapping ships. Why do we have to wait after leaving a station before we can re-dock. These are all pointless delays added to make the game less fun to play. Its a game, its meant to be FUN.
Ben
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ArcticFox
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Posted - 2005.01.17 17:20:00 -
[42]
Edited by: ArcticFox on 17/01/2005 17:21:22
I'm afraid I have to say taking it to the full length of realism is not viable for MMORPGs, and this is crossing way over into the border of insanity. Right now I have tons of time, but in a month or two I'll be back from vacation and have hardly any time for Eve. If I log in and feel like a spot of hunting but find the only battleship I can afford is still fit for mining and I only have a couple hours out of the next few days to play I'm gonna be ****ed.
I haven't ever really said this before in one of these suggestion threads because I like this game enough that I can handle a lot of changes, but if this went through I would have to quit. This is not some stupid threat, it's a statement of fact. Eve does not need more timesinks.
EDIT: I can concede a ship fitting time of a few minutes (not per module, overall), that would make sense withing the game. But days? Honestly? You really want that kind of drastic change?
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"There's no +6 Sword of WTFPWN in Eve." - Er... Some person on the forum... |
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