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How would you adapt if CCP nerfed lvl 3 and 4 mission in empire space?

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Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.05.22 08:40:00 - [31] Quote: So this is NOT a thread to discuss whether CCP should nerf the profitable lvl 3 and 4 mission in safe empire space. The question is what would you do when CCP decided to move all lvl 3 and 4 missions to low- and nullsec? Be happy about it? Quit EVE? Back to mining? Nullsec rathunting to pay the bills? Something else? Will it make you play EVE different? I'd play like for what EvE is about: adapt and deal with it. I am sure they'd lose a score of self-resourceless people unable to cope with any challenge, but hey, they are not going to stay anyway, they are jumping from MMO to MMO when they introduce some new flashy "casual player" (translate: bad player, casual players are another thing) toy. Like they do with supermarkets, they put the new horrible chinese gadget and scores of people flock there and get ripped by the strategically nearby placed overpriced other products.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.22 09:18:00 - [32] Originally by: Grey Alpha Leave the game...oh wait, that is what I think I am doing anyways...getting bored... If you're getting bored of missions anyway, why not try something different while your sub lasts?
Arec Bardwin	Posted - 2009.05.22 10:00:00 - [33] Quote: How would you adapt if CCP nerfed lvl 3 and 4 mission in empire space? I'd start doing L2s really, REALLY fast and efficient.....
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Katsu Corporation	Posted - 2009.05.22 10:12:00 - [34] Rejoice and laugh at all the whiners. Congratulate the eve economy to stabilize itself in the long run, and go back to low sec exploration or missions, which finally became profitable and worthwile.
Da'Than Interstellar Military Industries	Posted - 2009.05.22 11:50:00 - [35] Cancel my sub, wait if they put in some kind of compensation while it runs out, do more exploration, mining and wormholes (or get bored to hell and curse about the wasted subscriptioin money). I don't play this game because i want to shoot at others every minute, but because i like PVP in the sense of market and industry competition. OK, true reason is because i like flying spaceships and can't see Freelancer, Freespace etc anymore due to excessive playing.
Julia Venatrix	Posted - 2009.05.22 12:01:00 - [36] I'd be screwed. I'm an industrialist, making T2 cruiser hulls. Which are largely bought and lost by people playing PvP outside hisec, but funded from mission running, AFAICT. If L3/4 are nerfed in a way which means that, on average across the board, mission running returns decrease significantly, then the nice people who need to buy Phoboi and Lacheses (gotta love those Greek plural forms, eh?) a half-dozen at a time will not have the money to buy them from me. In time, I suppose, there will be a new equilibrium found, but POS costs have a floor based on NPC-sourced fuel materials, and a lot of current industrialists will need to stop, until the supply is decreased enough to make the price point for the demand profitable enough to support POS overheads. There are a few changes to missions that will make the game more interesting, but a blanket nerf probably isn't among them. Dynamic agent quality would be cool. Loot changes to make Looted mods require (costly-ish) repair T1 meta 0 loot irreparable Metal scraps turn up as loot Loot more thematically appropriate to wreck size would be cool, would boost T1 manufacture as a playstyle for players to dip their toes in for a bit, would increase the value of meta items through rarity. --- Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue.
Margy	Posted - 2009.05.22 12:04:00 - [37] QUIT. Number of people that has quit the game because of lvl 4 missions in highsec = ... tens? one? none? Number of people that would quit the game if lvl 3-4 missions move to lowsec = hundreds? thousands? Basic aritmethic will let you know why this argument (again) fails.
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.05.22 12:23:00 - [38] Edited by: Ghoest on 22/05/2009 12:23:32 Also people dont seem to understand that unless you make the odds of losing a ship in low sec tiny there is no way you can make money there once someone makes even a slight effort to gank you. And if they moved mission out of high sec thats what would happen. If you do this all that will happen is the 0.0 alliances will be even richer relative to the average player. Low sec will still be empty. High sec will be empty except for trade hubs. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Kambiri Zoltana Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.22 12:58:00 - [39] Wouldn't give a dam, barely ever run missions.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.05.22 13:09:00 - [40] I will never go to low sec. It's either hi-sec or null sec for me. Low sec seemss pretty pointless. If CCP nerfed L4s & L3s as you say, I'd spend more time ratting in 0.0 (as would others) and my alt would spend more time doing industrial stuff. *Let My People Go*

Ana Vyr	Posted - 2009.05.22 16:29:00 - [41] I'd just find a new way to make ISK in high sec because that's what I use missions for when I'm not with the corp in 0.0. Missioning in low sec in a 200 million ISK PvE fit battleship is just dumb.
Kur'Dekaija Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.05.22 16:38:00 - [42] kill ppl who are moving to lowsec
Niclas Solo Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.22 17:06:00 - [43] I would nerf my monthly deposit to 0
Fumen	Posted - 2009.05.22 17:20:00 - [44] Originally by: Future Mutant I, like most other players, would prolly find another game to play. On another somewhat related topic- can you name any mmorg's that have non consensual combat? No- well theres prolly a reason for that eh? I can name several MMORPGs that have non-consensual PvP combat: Ultima Online, Warhammer: Age of Reckoning (albeit limited in scope), and Darkfall Online (recently released so still not sure if it will stay the course) just to name a couple majors. There are even more 'minor' MMORPGs (ie number of players measure in only a few tens of thousands). How many of these games are Internet Spaceships, though? We are Serious Business, after all. Before you quit, can I have your stuff?
Fumen	Posted - 2009.05.22 17:26:00 - [45] Originally by: Xerra Yeltrox So this is NOT a thread to discuss whether CCP should nerf the profitable lvl 3 and 4 mission in safe empire space. The question is what would you do when CCP decided to move all lvl 3 and 4 missions to low- and nullsec? Be happy about it? Quit EVE? Back to mining? Nullsec rathunting to pay the bills? Something else? Will it make you play EVE different? Meh... personally, I'll stick it out. I like the concept of empire building and the various tactics and meta-gaming that EVE provides. There's more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to making ISK. To be honest, those that do stick around will probably watch as half the players walk away from the game permanently. After all, isn't it something like 90% of the players play mostly in high sec with more than the majority of those having never even seen lowsec, let alone null? How many Yarrs!! have mission running alts to pay for their willy-nilly pvp? How many players only have mission running as their only activity in the game just to watch things blow up? Before all you people emoragequit over losing your precious income, make sure to give us ur stuffs. (This is assuming that L4 missions get 'nerfed'.... Yeah, right, just like asteroid belts will ever get moved to exploration sites and will 'stop' macro miners.)
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.05.22 19:07:00 - [46] Quote: I can name several MMORPGs that have non-consensual PvP combat: Ultima Online, Warhammer: Age of Reckoning (albeit limited in scope), You forgot the "tiny" WoW. I recall ganking people who killed low levels and would also send my whole guild (I was a guild leader of a decent Naxxramas (pre-TBC) guild) to pew pew in Black Rock mountain vs the other top guilds. Fun times. Too bad they are over now
Future Mutant	Posted - 2009.05.23 01:29:00 - [47] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: I can name several MMORPGs that have non-consensual PvP combat: Ultima Online, Warhammer: Age of Reckoning (albeit limited in scope), You forgot the "tiny" WoW. I recall ganking people who killed low levels and would also send my whole guild (I was a guild leader of a decent Naxxramas (pre-TBC) guild) to pew pew in Black Rock mountain vs the other top guilds. Fun times. Too bad they are over now Being unfamiliar with those games i cannot comment as to how their combat system would compare to eves- i would hazard a guess that there are many checks to keep new players from being slaughtered outright. Imagine starting off as a new player without the safty of highsec. What are your options? Die repeatedly in your starter ship. Join the political crapstorm that is corp politics. Without major changes to existing ships and modules this would not work in the short or long term. Some of the bare minimum changes would be things like- completely nerf disruptors, scrams, bubbles, and probing would have to be made more time consuming and/or more difficult.
Snackers	Posted - 2009.05.23 06:18:00 - [48] All of hisec is not the "starting area"
Arkeladin	Posted - 2009.05.23 14:41:00 - [49] Originally by: Fumen Originally by: Future Mutant I, like most other players, would prolly find another game to play. On another somewhat related topic- can you name any mmorg's that have non consensual combat? No- well theres prolly a reason for that eh? I can name several MMORPGs that have non-consensual PvP combat: Ultima Online, Warhammer: Age of Reckoning (albeit limited in scope), and Darkfall Online (recently released so still not sure if it will stay the course) just to name a couple majors. There are even more 'minor' MMORPGs (ie number of players measure in only a few tens of thousands). How many of these games are Internet Spaceships, though? We are Serious Business, after all. Before you quit, can I have your stuff? Ya, amazing how many of those major players wound up limiting their FFA PvP in various ways... Ultima Online sharded, one shard FFA, one not. Interesting to note which shard's more popular in the first mainstream MMO... Warhammer's RvR with FFA. WoW is sharded, with limited RvR (Battlegrounds). Again, always interesting to note which shards are most popular overall... Darkfall - dunno, haven't tried it. Lot of the "minor" ones have some provision for the PvE types - PvP limited to certain areas (Star Trek Online is doing this), new characters being flagged for no PvP unless the player chooses to remove it, which is a permanent act (Original Jumpgate does this now... originally it was FFA, and nearly died because of it. Well, that and a inertial-based flight scheme with "drag" - IN SPAAACE). So, true FFA PvP isn't as common outside of console gaming as you'd think from your post.
Yuki Sanada Caldari Mentis Fidelis Aggression.	Posted - 2009.05.23 16:09:00 - [50] Originally by: Future Mutant I, like most other players, would prolly find another game to play. On another somewhat related topic- can you name any mmorg's that have non consensual combat? No- well theres prolly a reason for that eh? L2 has non-consensual combat. Outside of towns it's FFA; granted, with consequences, but still ffa.

Crais Reiter	Posted - 2009.05.23 17:01:00 - [51] Quit. I came to EVE in Janurary this year because I was bored of the fantasy games. The only sci-fi game I was loving previously was Tabula Rasa and I quit two days after the announcement to shut down it down. There is no incentive to continue a sub for EVE if I spent more time docking and replacing implants to cut down training time while making less then 500k on a level 2 mission when I already was about to quit EVE a month ago out of boredom.
Lady Aja Caldari Eradication Project	Posted - 2009.05.23 17:38:00 - [52] To me missions are boring as hell.. even 0.0 missions are almost as bad. how ever to move all lvl 4 and lvl 3 agents to low sec is one thing. to move them to 0.0 is another thing all together. I know caldari has some 0.0 agents... what about tthe other 3? I dont see them having agents in 0.0 if at all. leave the agents in hi sec. make all empire missions faction based for npc types. collect tags for payouts. low sec you would then have access to pirate npcs to shoot. making it more tempting to goto low sec or 0.0 ( assuming ccp placed agents there from the 4 empires ) if you dont like the idea of hi sec agents giving out faction based npcs to shoot at go mine a rock .
Future Mutant	Posted - 2009.05.23 18:02:00 - [53] Or visa versa- if pirates dont like their low/null sec rats to be faction types they can go to high sec- or go mine a rock
Lady Aja Caldari Eradication Project	Posted - 2009.05.23 18:28:00 - [54] Originally by: Future Mutant Or visa versa- if pirates dont like their low/null sec rats to be faction types they can go to high sec- or go mine a rock they already are pretty much.... running missiosn for pirate agents = alot of empire faction ships...
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.05.24 02:49:00 - [55] I do all my missions in low sec anyway And then, he killed the dog...
Aethrwolf Caldari Home for Wayward Gamers	Posted - 2009.05.24 03:50:00 - [56] probably spam lvl2's for mining opportunities Absolutely everything is subjective.
Nyota Sol Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.05.24 12:08:00 - [57] I think this question gets at a design flaw in Eve. I think a lot of players spend time doing L4s when they'd rather be doing something else, but they feel they have to... With L4s moved to lowsec, we'd see a massive drop in missioning. It's very possible that lowsec would become filled with a lot of carebears who leave each other alone, but we know it's more likely that it would become a heated constant war with little chance of comfortably doing missions in systems with popular L4 agents. However, there would still be a shift in pop out to lowsec even if total missioning decreased. I think this would lead to a cumulative growth in pvp for both lowsec and nulsec, as more people would focus on hunting than on other means of fun/income. Total amounts of minerals from reprocessing loot would drop. Reprocessing makes up a very large chunk of mineral supplies, according to the CCP economic reports. We could also expect a DROP in low sec mining, because it would become much more populated and dangerous. Increase in pvp. Decrease in mineral supply. This means mineral prices would probably sky-rocket. You'd have many people rushing to mine and macro-miners running for their lives (lol). Interest in mining could stabilize prices over time, particularly veld, but it's likely that non-trit mineral prices would keep going up for quite some time causing various secondary inflationary effects. There would be a market bottleneck somewhere with inflationary pressures on raw mats yet a decrease in overall income for pilots. Supplies of various L4 drops would decrease. Local markets in low sec would become more active, and inter-regional economic activity would also grow. Highsec market hubs would start reflecting both the costs of required transport and the lower supply rates on common drops. Popular T1 "named" items would quickly jump in value. Carebear characters designed around missioning would become almost worthless in many cases. You'd also have many people closing 2nd accounts, unable to quickly farm L4 cash for PLEX. That implies less demand for PLEX as well. Newer players would face incredible new challenges. The option to comfortably do L3s and L4s while learning the game is something vital for new players. It's also obviously useful to have a carebear "fall back" to support PvP. This would pull the crutch out for many Eve players. Which brings me to my real point. This game has too much disincentive against PvP. It costs too much time and effort to do the fun stuff. That's a horrible flaw in this game's market dynamics. Just take the costs of attribute implants. It's completely arbitrary. It's not market driven. There's no production behind it. Those implants are price fixed by CCP. It should not cost so much to buy a set of +4 or +5 attribute implants. That alone is a completely arbitrary bottleneck on FUN. This game is supposed to support PvP not setup these kinds of pointless disincentives against its fun side. I can't think of a single good reason why attribute implants couldnt be 20% of their current prices, thus allowing TONS of players (especialyl newer ones) a feeling of more freedom to go pvp. When you're only a few months old or even a year old, the costs of those implants alone can be a deterrent from having real fun in this game. And that's just one example. The game still needs to support more pvp, ironically. IMO, the costs of having fun doing pvp in time/effort are too high for the average player. ___________________________________________ *Lost in Space* - Apocrypha Exploration Resources
Nyota Sol Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.05.24 12:38:00 - [58] Originally by: Crais Reiter QThere is no incentive to continue a sub for EVE if I spent more time docking and replacing implants to cut down training time while making less then 500k on a level 2 mission when I already was about to quit EVE a month ago out of boredom. It's my opinion that the vast majority of people who have tried Eve gave up on it for these kinds of reasons. Pretending all the folks who turn their backs on eve are worthless morons and wow-noobs is delusional. There are a lot of serious gamers who are very smart... that give up on eve, and pretending it's just a "learning curve" issue is also delusional. For a game that prides itself on being about pvp and free markets, the implant costs are absolutely absurd and CCP price-fixed. There is no reason it should cost so much time/effort to pvp without severely compromising your training. If you want to pvp in this game, it should be a lot more affordable. And vets pretending you can just keep buying rifters for low sec pirating are missing the point. Buying a set of +4s or +5s should be about 1/5th of current prices. The risk in ISK-terms for doing pvp should be cost of ships/equipment, not spending a fortune (relatively speaking) to replace implants that keep you TRAINING at a reasonable rate. I shouldn't have to decide between having fun and properly training my character. That's a serious design flaw. Consider how much effort is required just to get a jump clone as a new player. It's counter-intuitive. It's anti-fun. It's arbitrary. Fanboy vets can make rationalizations and write-off these criticisms, but it's stupid stuff like this that drives *smart, hardcore gamers* away from eve. ___________________________________________ *Lost in Space* - Apocrypha Exploration Resources
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2009.05.24 13:57:00 - [59] I think an acceptable nerf would be to have missions expire at downtime. Period. If you can't complete a mission before downtime, don't ask for it. No penalties for missions that expire and are not accepted. If you do accept a mission, and can't complete it, you take the standings hit. Period. Mission farming is eliminated. So all the "easy" Isk from that endeavor is eliminated also. Could never figure out the reasoning behind a 7 day expiration, other than to pander to players who are not prepared or who want to exploit the mission system by farming it.
Mikal Drey Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.24 14:41:00 - [60] Originally by: Ghengis Tia I think an acceptable nerf would be to have missions expire at downtime. Period. If you can't complete a mission before downtime, don't ask for it. what about random downloads or server restarts ? Originally by: Ghengis No penalties for missions that expire and are not accepted. If you do accept a mission, and can't complete it, you take the standings hit. Period. random DT, miss click lag, whatever, once DT hits then your mission is screwed and you get a hit ? no way. Originally by: Ghengis Could never figure out the reasoning behind a 7 day expiration, other than to pander to players who are not prepared or who want to exploit the mission system by farming it. RL > EVE and sometimes you have to log real quick or life in general suddenly walks uyp and smacks you round the head. oh and to the OP : id quit. i play a wide range of professions and firmly believe that the current system is working as intended. if L3 and 4 or eve just L4 missions were moved to low sec then i would feel CCP made an irrevocable error and pandered to the whingers and for that reason i would quit. i dont even mission as much as i used to but having something i can take a break from all the pew pew for is pretty much what keeps me subbed. Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC



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