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How would you adapt if CCP nerfed lvl 3 and 4 mission in empire space?

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Casino Alkasar Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.24 15:07:00 - [61] My crsytal ball tells me, IF ccp makes major changes to lvl 3&4 missions THEN they will loose subscriptions from pvp and pvers _________________ itze mine Rock¦n roll
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.05.24 15:11:00 - [62] Originally by: Nyota Sol Which brings me to my real point. This game has too much disincentive against PvP. It costs too much time and effort to do the fun stuff. That's a horrible flaw in this game's market dynamics. Just take the costs of attribute implants. It's completely arbitrary. It's not market driven. There's no production behind it. Those implants are price fixed by CCP. It should not cost so much to buy a set of +4 or +5 attribute implants. That alone is a completely arbitrary bottleneck on FUN. This game is supposed to support PvP not setup these kinds of pointless disincentives against its fun side. I can't think of a single good reason why attribute implants couldnt be 20% of their current prices, thus allowing TONS of players (especialyl newer ones) a feeling of more freedom to go pvp. When you're only a few months old or even a year old, the costs of those implants alone can be a deterrent from having real fun in this game. And that's just one example. The game still needs to support more pvp, ironically. IMO, the costs of having fun doing pvp in time/effort are too high for the average player. You make an interesting point. I don't see it as a flaw in the game mechanics though, as much as I see it as human nature and risk aversion. Implants are not a requirement for success or for unsafe space or combat PVP. I've been flying over three years, mostly outside of high-sec, and I've rarely used implants at all. Why? In the early days I got myself podded a lot and I didn't find them worth the trouble. In my later days I suppose I've just gotten used to not worrying about them. Pilots choose to let excuses like skill training time, implant cost, and ship cost serve as reasons to not leave high-sec. When dealing with human nature it's normal that if one reason/excuse is taken away another will be found to take it's place. Those who like to fly outside of high-sec do so now desipte this very well-worded reason why they shouldn't be able to do so enjoyably. Those who don't like to fly outside of high-sec are unlikely to change that behavior if implants suddenly got a whole lot cheaper. Some other reason to "not go out there" would come to mind. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Mikal Drey Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.24 15:20:00 - [63] implant production has been discussed and something was mentioned about biomas or even direct implant extraction from corpses but i would say its a long way off still. Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC
Darkerz Reloaded Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.24 15:41:00 - [64] Go Ratting.
Marzaris Onbarny	Posted - 2009.05.24 19:39:00 - [65] Prices on meta gear (named items) would sky rocket and mineral prices would drop, as the only soloable higsec activities would be minnig, or ttrading. So npc buying and selling would have far less of a profit margin. so, if that happened I would buy up all the best and second best named moduals of warp scarm, target painters, sensor boosters, small and med guns, webbers, etc. Anything that gets lost in pvp. Then I would wait about a month and sell them all slowly for lots of money. Then do what everyone is doing and move to nullsec or WH space.
dankness420	Posted - 2009.05.24 19:49:00 - [66] nothing because i am not a pathetic empire dwelling mission runner who is scared to go into GASP lowsec or OMG EVIL 0.0 SPACE!
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2009.05.24 20:07:00 - [67] Edited by: Ehranavaar on 24/05/2009 20:09:58 i'd have to execute a hostile takeover of CCP so i could order that policy reversed. i'd probably also have attacking my ships trigger a weapons shutdown for oh a week on the pest's account. better yet have it so the only modules he can activate for a week are mining lasers
Imodesky Kafelnikov	Posted - 2009.05.24 20:17:00 - [68] Im already in stain running missions, no reason to ever go to empire. Feel free to drop in, we love company!
Emma Royd Caldari Maddled Gommerils	Posted - 2009.05.24 21:49:00 - [69] I'd quit plain and simple. -6 accounts though I doubt they'll ever do it I'm not a pvp'er, never have been and I don't like that part of the game but put up with it as it's part of eve. Eve is becoming more and more pvpcentric, it needs some balancing for the industrial side, wormholes are ok but you run the high risk of gankage due to the lack of local, asteroid belts are full of macroers I normally only mine in missions for a change. It's not often I'm wrong, apart from the comments I make in the signature, and then I'm often wrong. On the other hand maybe I'm getting confused. ......My head hurts :(
Rip Minner	Posted - 2009.05.25 04:01:00 - [70] Edited by: Rip Minner on 25/05/2009 04:02:38 Like every other high sec person I would see if I can find something alse in high sec I like doing. If I did not I would quit. It's realy this simple so listen up. Thoughs people that dont wish to pvp or pvp all the time will still be in high sec and thoughs that wish to pvp all the time or most of the time will still be in low sec/null sec. What mite happen is some people that cant find anything alse they like do in high sec mite try low sec for a spell but it will not take long for them to learn there going to loss more isk in mission ships there then there making in missions and quit.

GyokZoli Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.25 09:13:00 - [71] Edited by: GyokZoli on 25/05/2009 09:12:58 Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki Rejoice and laugh at all the whiners. Congratulate the eve economy to stabilize itself in the long run, and go back to low sec exploration or missions, which finally became profitable and worthwile. Obviusly, you have no clue about the economy.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.25 09:53:00 - [72] Originally by: Ghengis Tia I think an acceptable nerf would be to have missions expire at downtime. Period. If you can't complete a mission before downtime, don't ask for it. I.e Don't live in Australia, Japan, USA est coast. Originally by: Ghengis Tia No penalties for missions that expire and are not accepted. If you do accept a mission, and can't complete it, you take the standings hit. Period. Already done. Originally by: Ghengis Tia Mission farming is eliminated. So all the "easy" Isk from that endeavor is eliminated also. Originally by: Ghengis Tia Could never figure out the reasoning behind a 7 day expiration, other than to pander to players who are not prepared or who want to exploit the mission system by farming it. New player get access to next tier mission. Try it and discover it is too hard. If he has a week he has a chance to gather friends, train up, get a new ship. If he has the time between log in and DT he will fail it and the standing loss will push him back a lot.
Talio ZomB	Posted - 2009.05.25 11:51:00 - [73] I have experience the nerfing of them already, early half of 2005 saw an empire based NPC bounty ner***e lvl 4 GE used to fetch 45mil excluding the bonus. Granted some things cot more then like arby siege at 86mil, faction BS at 6 billion isk etc etc... If lvl 4s were nerfed I would have to join an alliance and do something 0.0 but I find that the more I rely on others the more disappointed I get. However I think the most carebear of ppl will quite eve or mine more, I have spoken to so many that will not do pvp combat at all. I think the end result I would move to 0.0 and do missions for pirate corp, belt ratting is such a bore and complexes are an unchangin situation also very boring after a while. maybe WH space exploration. pvp dont make me money as I tend to avoid fleet fighting and use expensive fits so when I lose a ship it negates the gains of my last 10 kills
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.25 12:52:00 - [74] Originally by: Emma Royd I'd quit plain and simple. -6 accounts though I doubt they'll ever do it I'm not a pvp'er, never have been and I don't like that part of the game but put up with it as it's part of eve. Eve is becoming more and more pvpcentric, it needs some balancing for the industrial side, wormholes are ok but you run the high risk of gankage due to the lack of local, asteroid belts are full of macroers I normally only mine in missions for a change. Um, eve is becoming less and less PvPcentric. It was created from the gound up as a wholly PvP game (in the sense of not all PvP is combat PvP). Combat PvP has been steadily nerfed. Missions are just about the only NON-PvP activity in EvE. They are a glaring anomaly.
Wongdong Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.25 14:23:00 - [75] Originally by: Future Mutant I, like most other players, would prolly find another game to play. On another somewhat related topic- can you name any mmorg's that have non consensual combat? No- well theres prolly a reason for that eh? Shadowbane Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking
Veng3ance Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.05.25 14:48:00 - [76] Edited by: Veng3ance on 25/05/2009 14:48:41 Cry because all my 0.0 exploration plexes would be over-run by old mission runners And on another note I must say all you Level 4 mission guys whining about how this would ruin your game....your pathetic. I consistently fly in low-sec and 0.0 for money making solo and probably haven't died in over a year. Learn to play the game and maybe you wouldn't need to be stuck in empire for your "casual" (boring) experience.
J3di Mast3r	Posted - 2009.05.25 20:11:00 - [77] Originally by: Xerra Yeltrox So this is NOT a thread to discuss whether CCP should nerf the profitable lvl 3 and 4 mission in safe empire space. The question is what would you do when CCP decided to move all lvl 3 and 4 missions to low- and nullsec? Be happy about it? Quit EVE? Back to mining? Nullsec rathunting to pay the bills? Something else? Will it make you play EVE different? I came into lv4 missions very late in the game and was so disspointed with them. I found them boring and repetative. Exploration is where its at for me and 0.0 is the best place for it imo. If they nerfed them i wouldnt be bothered in the slightest.
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2009.05.25 20:44:00 - [78] Originally by: Mikal Drey Originally by: Ghengis Tia I think an acceptable nerf would be to have missions expire at downtime. Period. If you can't complete a mission before downtime, don't ask for it. what about random downloads or server restarts ? I've lost ships due to this, CCP says too bad, why don't they same the same for a standings hit? I don't quite get the "random downloads", that seems to be something you should be able to control. Server restarts are rare, and a lot of players lose ships, etc. Petition it. Originally by: Ghengis No penalties for missions that expire and are not accepted. If you do accept a mission, and can't complete it, you take the standings hit. Period. random DT, miss click lag, whatever, once DT hits then your mission is screwed and you get a hit ? no way. Once again, is this all that prevalent? Petition it. Originally by: Ghengis Could never figure out the reasoning behind a 7 day expiration, other than to pander to players who are not prepared or who want to exploit the mission system by farming it. RL > EVE Is your RL so chaotic you can't plan 1-2 hours to do a mission? and sometimes you have to log real quick or life in general suddenly walks uyp and smacks you round the head. Almost all Level IV's can be soloed in less than an hour, unless it is AE or WC, which you should plan to have a least 2 hours uninterrupted before you accept the mission. oh and to the OP : id quit. i play a wide range of professions and firmly believe that the current system is working as intended. if L3 and 4 or eve just L4 missions were moved to low sec then i would feel CCP made an irrevocable error and pandered to the whingers and for that reason i would quit. i dont even mission as much as i used to but having something i can take a break from all the pew pew for is pretty much what keeps me subbed. Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2009.05.25 20:57:00 - [79] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Ghengis Tia I think an acceptable nerf would be to have missions expire at downtime. Period. If you can't complete a mission before downtime, don't ask for it. I.e Don't live in Australia, Japan, USA est coast. As I told Michael Drey, most Level IV's can be done in less than an hour except AE and WC. If you don't accept the mission, then no penalty. Originally by: Ghengis Tia No penalties for missions that expire and are not accepted. If you do accept a mission, and can't complete it, you take the standings hit. Period. Already done. No, if you do not complete it, it resets at downtime for the next seven days, this way it doesn't reset after downtime. Originally by: Ghengis Tia Mission farming is eliminated. So all the "easy" Isk from that endeavor is eliminated also. My proposed "nerf" is to make Level III's and IV's a bit more difficult to do without prior planning, and without letting players farm missions. Farming missions is not completing them, waiting until downtime, then they reset, and you can do them again, get all the bounties, loot, etc. For seven days running. Isk bonanza. Originally by: Ghengis Tia Could never figure out the reasoning behind a 7 day expiration, other than to pander to players who are not prepared or who want to exploit the mission system by farming it. New player get access to next tier mission. Try it and discover it is too hard. If he has a week he has a chance to gather friends, train up, get a new ship. If he has the time between log in and DT he will fail it and the standing loss will push him back a lot. The new player can warp in and warp out as often as necessary to complete the mission. He can complete it that way. But if he's that far in over his head that he needs additional training or assistance, he jumped up to the next level too soon. He can also read the Kill Mission Survival Guide to properly prepare him for the mission or let him decide he shouldn't accept the mission as it is too tough. The standings hit may push him back some, but he has resources to assess the mission. People complain there is no risk to flying missions. This ups the risk.
CHAOS100 Widowmakers	Posted - 2009.05.26 03:24:00 - [80] Edited by: CHAOS100 on 26/05/2009 03:24:08 I think they should keep them available in empire, but add lucrative options to low sec like discussed in this article: http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/67950/page/3 If low sec was more than just empire with pvp enabled, maybe then the goal of moving people to low sec would be achieved. --------------

RabbitofDoom	Posted - 2009.05.26 11:43:00 - [81] Hmm let me think... Hunting mission runners before they move to another game or some null sec dead end, cynojammed system with a permacamp aliance protecting their pet mission runners. Then quit or join some null sec alliance to camp a gate leading to some dead end cynojammed systems while tireless hordes of our pets run mission after mission to pay for our protection.
Pesets The Hunt Club	Posted - 2009.05.26 12:41:00 - [82] Originally by: Nyota Sol Which brings me to my real point. This game has too much disincentive against PvP. It costs too much time and effort to do the fun stuff. That's a horrible flaw in this game's market dynamics. Originally by: Nyota Sol It's my opinion that the vast majority of people who have tried Eve gave up on it for these kinds of reasons. Pretending all the folks who turn their backs on eve are worthless morons and wow-noobs is delusional. There are a lot of serious gamers who are very smart... that give up on eve, and pretending it's just a "learning curve" issue is also delusional. QFT Also, you're wrong. We all know Eve isn't supposed to be about people having fun, but rather about denying each other the possibility of having fun. In the end, the ultimate achievement is to make someone quit. If that doesn't sound like fun for you, go play [another MMO] (even if you'd rather play Eve for the aspects of it that you actually enjoy). Originally by: Ghengis Tia The new player can warp in and warp out as often as necessary to complete the mission. He can complete it that way. Not if he gets into hull within seconds of warping in because he screwed up the mission triggers. Originally by: Ghengis Tia But if he's that far in over his head that he needs additional training or assistance, he jumped up to the next level too soon. He can also read the Kill Mission Survival Guide to properly prepare him for the mission or let him decide he shouldn't accept the mission as it is too tough. Survival Guides are not always complete, up to date, and don't really do a very good job of telling you the main part - when can you say that you're ready to take on it, and what should you bring. Not unless you're a professional missionrunner. Originally by: Ghengis Tia People complain there is no risk to flying missions. This ups the risk. For those doing the missions for the first time. Changes nothing for the people who already have all the missions hardwired into their brain.
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2009.05.26 13:47:00 - [83] Originally by: Pesets Originally by: Nyota Sol Which brings me to my real point. This game has too much disincentive against PvP. It costs too much time and effort to do the fun stuff. That's a horrible flaw in this game's market dynamics. Originally by: Nyota Sol It's my opinion that the vast majority of people who have tried Eve gave up on it for these kinds of reasons. Pretending all the folks who turn their backs on eve are worthless morons and wow-noobs is delusional. There are a lot of serious gamers who are very smart... that give up on eve, and pretending it's just a "learning curve" issue is also delusional. QFT Also, you're wrong. We all know Eve isn't supposed to be about people having fun, but rather about denying each other the possibility of having fun. In the end, the ultimate achievement is to make someone quit. If that doesn't sound like fun for you, go play [another MMO] (even if you'd rather play Eve for the aspects of it that you actually enjoy). Originally by: Ghengis Tia The new player can warp in and warp out as often as necessary to complete the mission. He can complete it that way. Not if he gets into hull within seconds of warping in because he screwed up the mission triggers. Originally by: Ghengis Tia But if he's that far in over his head that he needs additional training or assistance, he jumped up to the next level too soon. He can also read the Kill Mission Survival Guide to properly prepare him for the mission or let him decide he shouldn't accept the mission as it is too tough. Survival Guides are not always complete, up to date, and don't really do a very good job of telling you the main part - when can you say that you're ready to take on it, and what should you bring. Not unless you're a professional missionrunner. Originally by: Ghengis Tia People complain there is no risk to flying missions. This ups the risk. For those doing the missions for the first time. Changes nothing for the people who already have all the missions hardwired into their brain. Ok, I'll compromise, make it three downtimes before a mission expires. Cuts the mission farming to less than half, gives a break to players just breaking into that level, and gives an incentive to be prepared for the next go at it. The game should be dumbed down to accomodate the player who has just moved up to level III or IV, so I think three downtimes should be more than sufficient. Seven days coupled with mission farming just plays into the hands of PvPr's screaming to nerf missions. Probably won't happen as it has been a staple in Eve since the onset (correct me if I'm wrong). After all this: To the OP, I wouldn't quit, but the Eve economy would drastically change overnight if Level III and IV missions were all moved to lo-sec. If it were ever to happen, it would be a gradual move, moving a small percentage of those agents every three months or so.
Sae'a	Posted - 2009.05.26 14:41:00 - [84] i wouldt quit eve is not just lame pvp, but thats a point the brainless pvp-gang will never realize
Izo Alabaster Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company	Posted - 2009.05.26 14:44:00 - [85] Originally by: Xerra Yeltrox So this is NOT a thread to discuss whether CCP should nerf the profitable lvl 3 and 4 mission in safe empire space. The question is what would you do when CCP decided to move all lvl 3 and 4 missions to low- and nullsec? Be happy about it? Quit EVE? Back to mining? Nullsec rathunting to pay the bills? Something else? Will it make you play EVE different? There's no way CCP would seriously nerf empire missions. I don't think CCP would be able to afford the mass exodus of mindless carebears who just log in to run missions for a few hours, and somehow gain an (empty) sense of accomplishment from watching their wallet go blinky and then log out. That said, I see empire highsec missions as a real anomaly. They are quite profitable, but require no interaction or competition with other people, which is an oddity in EVE. I wish they had never been implemented, or had been installed with some sort of built in competition between the capsuleers. Personally, I'd go do some other thing for profit, whether it's building my own ships and modules for pvp through mining, or complexes or whatever. I think it would actually be a good thing if lv. 3, 4 missions were removed entirely in highsec. Originally by: CCP Nozh Are BS useless in solo combat? The larger ship still has many benefits: * Can fit smaller weapons to fend off smaller targets * More slots allow EW counter measures
Arfvedson	Posted - 2009.05.26 15:30:00 - [86] TBH they cant nerf L3&4 missions. Too much of the game depends on them. It's mostly the miners and such that want to nerf them, but in the end thats just stupid. Missions are just about the only way in the game for combat pilots to make an income. They want to nerf someone else's income because it compete's with their own. They argue that with meta 2-4 items in the game there is no point in doing the meta 0 production, but that isnt true either. Thats just about the only way the items enter the game. They argue that the reprocessing of those items is killing the mineral market, but that is also far from the truth. The orca is whats killing the mineral market. When 1 person can sit there with an orca and 3 macro hulks and clear 5 belts in 2 hours, thats just rediculous. The sheer bulk of the mineral income there is insane. Alot of people want to argue that the 15-20mil an hour you get from running 4's is too much with only having to risk the suicide runs and dc's. Lets be honest. At this point in the game for the bulk of the populace, 15-20mil an hour isnt much. What else would have have 80% of the population do to make an income if they got rid of the L3&4 missions? I know you can put mining lasers on a rokh, but come on...
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2009.05.26 17:37:00 - [87] If they removed lvl 3s and 4s from highsec I'd hope they would allow 0.0 alliances to put agents in player owned outposts. I would opt for that or do WH space.
skeljita	Posted - 2009.05.26 19:35:00 - [88] Do people really make 15-20m an hour running level 4s? I have run multiple level 4s and have not seen that kind of isk personally although im new to 4's
Aglarond	Posted - 2009.05.26 19:57:00 - [89] Originally by: skeljita Do people really make 15-20m an hour running level 4s? I have run multiple level 4s and have not seen that kind of isk personally although im new to 4's They do indeed. Although that 15-20mil/hour fig is including bounties, mission rewards, loot, and LP. Some people can make more than that but it's usually people farming mission hubs with stupid expensive ships and an alt account or 2. Abandon hope for the Caldari Race. It's always a bitter moment when something gets nerfed. Not because CCP decided something genuinely needed an adjustment, but because somewhere some whiner is g
Imertu Solientai Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.26 22:00:00 - [90] Originally by: Sae'a i wouldt quit eve is not just lame pvp, but thats a point the brainless pvp-gang will never realize I would be happy. EVE is not just endless lame single-player mission running, but that's a point the brainless farmers will never understand. (also fixed grammar and syntax)



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