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Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.05.24 20:07:00 -
[1]
Once again, I implore the Skill Discussion community to come to my aid. The last time I requested assistance, the result was a resounding success. Sadly, I sold Runewitch prior to the Apocrypha expansion due to dissatisfaction with my attribute placement. One month longer, and I would have found out about remapping 
This time around, I ask for not one, but two distinct PVP skill plans. I've completed the learning skills on two of my new belles, Lunewrith and Lunewrath, (argue the merits of 5/5 all you like; flying in Curse being frequently podded meant I needed all the attribute points I could muster.) The two characters will have a similar skill trajectory, with some key differences in ship selection and cross training.
With combat experience influencing my criteria, some conditions will change from the last request. In general, this is what I will require from both skill plans:
Focus on Subcap pvp shiptypes.
Fleet engagements will largely be 0.0 small/medium roams, however;
Both characters will need to have at least one Fleet BS (to me that means Apoc and/or Rokh).
Implants - assume +5's for the next 6 months minimum. Will have implants installed in a jump clone in empire space 6 days every 2 weeks (I'll park the character when I'm working).
Both characters will cross train with two racial ship types.
A two year plan is the minimum requirement, using EveMon to display the plan.
The characters will occasionally dual-box in engagements.
An individualized set of needs:
Lunwraith:
* Amarr/Caldari cross train. * Recon/HAC V a requirement. * Redeemer Black Ops would be sweet if it can squeeze in.
API info: User ID: 1551011 API Key: D960BC088C5C4CB0A21B0321793114D1B936F91AB4A14AD0AA7F3DC520C05395
Lunwrath:
* Amarr/Gallente cross train. * Recon/HAC V a requirement. * Redeemer Black Ops would be sweet if it can squeeze in.
API info:
User ID: 4452291 API Key: 8FCB20762509403BB67BD9654D02CAD17AB9BE63CCF44A95943FDDB9AF7EDBC7
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Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.05.24 20:07:00 -
[2]
Reserved
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Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.05.24 20:08:00 -
[3]
Reserved
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Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.05.24 21:39:00 -
[4]
That's fine, only please don't put me up for auction :))
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Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.05.24 23:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Teilchen Does the plan have to be playable like in your old contest. or would it be allowed to train 1 year skills that arent much usefull on their own but would kick in in the second year?
One year of supports is certainly viable. In fact, that was one of the reasons I statd I would be in +5's the next 6 months min. Flying with low supports is possible, but it was much more enjoyable playing with a more fleshed out character. I have alts to play well until then.
Originally by: Teilchen and whats that with 2 years minimum and squeeze in? Would it be allowed to make a 3 year plan, and if so, what would you expect from that (maybe hac/recon/bs in the first 2 years, and then the scond race in the third year). and maybe even more intersting: what about a plan that takes 2 years and a few months?
I lowered the minimum from the first contest as I felt people were turned off from the amount of work required to complete it. More is certainly welcome if a three year plan is required to meet the objectives.
Originally by: Teilchen and its a sad thing that you remapped already, takes away flexibility and makes this challenge MUCH harder. Training int/men skills first and then training per/wil is a good idea if you want to save skilltime (but a bad one if you want to play the char during that time...)
I considered keeping my attributes as they were well before initiating this competition. I thought about the Int/Mem skills, however I changed the plan I created several times and decided it best to stick to Per/Int rather than screw something up miserably. Training will not be optimal, however should still retain decent training times for most skills.
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Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.05.25 16:47:00 -
[6]
ISK sent, Bufo and Teilchen, downloadng your plans as I type. Looking forward to seeing what you got.
Two more entry prizes of 25 mil ISK to go. Excited to see what you all can do 
Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.05.25 18:51:00 -
[7]
Thanks for the link Lurkiss, I'll have a look after. I use Mediafire a lot myself, quite happy with them.
I would be interested in Logistics on one character tbh. Always nice for repping up POS shields afk after a fight or ******ed station games. Command ships and links are great as well. I love the Absolution, and the Damnation is good with the right gang and mods.
Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.05.25 22:48:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lunewraith on 25/05/2009 22:54:19
Originally by: Bufo8o2 Would you want both armour and shield repping then?
Yes, definitely. I use either frequently, sometimes on non-standard fits (Gank-fit Zealots, Harbs, etc.)
Originally by: Bufo8o2 Will finish and upload a complementary skillplan for lunewrath tomorrow morning which will be focused on slightly different ship types and skills, especially those for leadership and command ships.
Sounds great, looking forward to seeing what you and Teilchen can come up with on my other gal. Main reason to crosstrain differently is to change things up a touch (and the reason for Gallente in this instance is for the Ishtar and maybe the Moros if I get too bored).
Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.05.26 18:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bufo8o2 Got a plan for lunewrath here.
It goes over 2 years slightly due to the redeemer black ops skills at the end but includes skills for both field commands and fleet commands. The character can be respecced after training battlecruiser V to save a few days with the following attributes: intelligence 15, perception 5, charisma 5, willpower 9 and memory 5. This will also speed up any future command skills you want to train and can be changed to have more charisma if you want very good leadership skills.
The plan starts with covert ops and probing skills to give something different and hopefully useful when used with the other character and again progresses to assault frigs (the ishkur). It then goes on to the gallente hac the ishtar while doing many support skills along the way. After that logistics skills are trained along with crosstraining to amarr t2 cruisers.
Heavy interdictors are trained next to again give something different to lunewraith and finally for the t2 cruisers recons and their support skills are trained. The apoc is then trained for use as a fleet battleship with even better gunnery support skills, and finally before command ships and black ops skills are trained cov ops, logistics, recon and hac skills are trained to V.
Command ships are trained along with warfare link and other leadership skills and then finally there are skills for the redeemer including jump portal generation.
Hope you like this plan, it is again intended to be reasonably playable throughout and I think it should go well with the skill plan for lunewraith.
Looking forward to seeing it. I know crosstraining is not the most efficient way to train up a character, but done right can be very rewarding in terms of ship selection and fleet utility. You have all found solutions to make it work.
Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.05.27 19:08:00 -
[10]
New links seem to be working fine. Thanks for re-uploading.
Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.05.31 10:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lunewraith
The end date for submissions will be Saturday, June 6th 2009. The winning selection will made be on Saturday, June 13th 2009
One week to go with three entrants thus far, lots of time to submit an entry. Love to see some more submissions.
Good luck to everyone involved :)
Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.06.01 00:02:00 -
[12]
The 14 WIS was really getting me down Herschel. And try as I might, I couldn't modify your plan to fit my new gals. Looking forward to seeing what you can bring, I remember the competition really started when you entered the fray :)
Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.06.01 23:36:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Lunewraith on 01/06/2009 23:38:15
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Few questions for you.
When you say "Recon/HAC V a requirement", do you mean both skills, or just one?
Do the characters be need to use all 4 HACs and all 4 Recons effectively? For example, I'm thinking of ignoring lasers on 'wraith and going for the drone boats and Khanid ships on the Amarr side. You mind the Zealot being only really usable on 'wrath and the Sacrilege only being usable on 'wraith?
You want a Redeemer on both characters, or just one?
I'd prefer both characters to be able to fly all four HACs and Recons. They don't need to be able to fly all four types with proficiency. I can understand if the Amarr/Gallente pilot wouldn't be as fleshed out in missile skills, same as the Amarr/Caldari one to sacrifice a bit in drones thereby lowering efficiency with using the mentioned ships. I can flesh them out later.
Redeemer on both would be a plus, but certainly not mandatory. In fact, its not a requirement on either character. I can train that up well into the future if need be. I'm intending on flying in a lot of 'cloaky' type roams (which is why I place a high priority on Recons). The Redeemer skills should not outweigh the need for better training and supports for the HAC/Recon/Fleet BS portion of the skill plan. If its a distraction it can be dropped entirely or tacked on at the end of the plan. Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.06.04 13:49:00 -
[14]
Thanks Teilchen :)
Just in case there are any doubts, I've put a contract up in Jita 4-4 with two 30 Day Plex cards to show they are in my possession. Search Lunewraith in the Issued By box and you will find it. Of course I will pull the Item Exchange down on completion of the contest (unless someone is wierd enough to accept my price in which case I'll buy more cards). Of course this does not mean you have to accept the Plex should you win; the cash offer stands. Still can do 3rd party if you guys feel the need as well.
Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.06.05 14:49:00 -
[15]
Thanks for the kind words people. Rest assured your hard work will be rewarded.
Tomorrow is the cutoff for entrants to submit. After that, one week to defend the merits of your submission 
With only three entrants thus far, odds are very high to win at least one card. Barring a deluge of last-minute entrants, everyone participating at this point have an excellent chance of receiving a nice payout. Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.06.06 04:50:00 -
[16]
Awesome Jared. Downloading it now and I'll load it in to see what you've got on the go. Thanks for the entry. |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.06.07 00:59:00 -
[17]

That's a pretty incredible plan tbh. Glad I could make it easy for you to work with :) All reqs there with the addition of the Redeemer + portal. Very impressive, and in two years to boot. Can't wait to see Lunewraith's plan  Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.06.07 04:46:00 -
[18]
Well, that closes the first portion of the competition. I talked to Herschel in game and he accepts that the deadline is passed. Graciously, he will post the plan he came up for Lunewraith upon completion, however the entry will not count towards the final draw (though his entry for Lunewrath remains in play).
Thanks to all the entrants. You now have one week to argue your plans merits and prepare for the payout on Saturday. Good luck to you all, this has been very rewarding once again.
Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.06.08 12:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Teilchen whats with the slagh? isnt he an entrant also?
ok, lets defend my plan ;)
>snip<
And good spot for the t2 heavies, I knew I forgot something -_-
more to come later, not much time right now...
I don't believe Herschel's intent is to make a dig. With 100's of millions at stake, he's working hard to make sure he gets a portion of it. If you check back on the previous contest, this is the highly competitive portion where the strengths and weaknesses of the plans are debated.
Consider this the pvp portion for a pvp plan. The idea here is the week of debate refines the existing plans and catches the oversights. I'm glad you chose to respond to the challenge, and look forward to your rebuttal.
Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.06.09 11:03:00 -
[20]
Good to see the conversation change tone and come back to the issue at hand, the skill plans.
In my opinion, once a position becomes indefensible, personal attacks and diversion to topics away from the present discourse occurs. Concede the point if its lost and move on. I hope we don't lose the ability to analyze and debate while still holding each other in high esteem. The stakes are high, but consider hitting 'preview' before posting
That said, I'll answer some questions levied. First, maybe I was a touch cryptic when I asked for 'Fleet Battleships'. Indeed, with the ships listed (Apoc, Rokh) I was looking for sniper setups, as many standardized fleet fits will contain either ship to hit at range. Not all mind you, and an addition of T2 Pulses/Blasters is a welcome addition. Remote rep gangs will be flown in as well and can come in several flavors of range depending on composition and FC.
The Arbitrator is a wonderful ship. I will be more likely to fly it with Lunewrath due to a higher focus on drone skills. TBH, I am a fan of the T1 blaster boats Gallente have to offer over Amarr, and will probably fly the Vexor and Thorax over most T1 Amarr cruisers due to familiarity and preference. The Arby is a great solo ship and will probably be used that way more than ganged up (or in tandem with Lunewraith).
Lunewraith will likely fly Inties at start and thermodyamics will be an important part of her tackle. Imo, thermodynamics are an important part of any pvp'ers repertoire and I'll often train it on characters I purchase to enhance their value.
Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.06.09 16:48:00 -
[21]
Side note: Someone bought out my insanely priced Item exchange on the two GTC's. So, I've purchased another two and made a tidy profit on the initial two. The only trouble is the two new cards are located in Amarr (Emperor Family Station) Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause. I could put these up for viewing as well, but I'm afraid they might sell  |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.06.12 13:39:00 -
[22]
Last day before the payout, make your case if you have not done so already :)
Good luck to the entrants, its been a successful competition once again. Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.06.13 12:24:00 -
[23]
Reviewing the plans as we speak, try and give me until 12:00 Pacific if thats ok? I want to give everyone's plans a thourough review and compare to what has been posted this week. (Started that process, but anticipate there will be some more posts today)
I think that means appx 1900 Eve time, though I can't be 100% sure on that atm. About 6 1/2 hrs from the time of this posting anyhow. |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.06.13 13:22:00 -
[24]
After thinking about it for a few minutes, I might as well finish this up now. My mind id unlikely to change as I've had a week to review the plans and associated comments.
First. Thanks to all the entrants for your hard work and interesting debate. The debate portion can get heated, but it is an important step in order to review oversights and provide suggestions on ways to improve your plans in general. If I'm to use your plan as a roadmap, I can't miss the important stops along the way.
Similar to last time, I will select three people whom I feel have plans that best suit my needs and reward them accordingly.
First, Herschel. You receive a Plex for some stunningly crafted plans that trains up each character with all my requisites in mind. That, most entrants have done. The brilliance is that the plans have synergy with each other. That is a difficult, and commendable work.
Teilchen. You receive a Plex for thoughtful consideration to detail and training the characters to their fullest potential. You designed a plans that maximized the training speed inherent in the characters and forsake easy, short term payoffs for balanced, fulfilled characters at the end of their plans.
Bufo8o2. Your plans were solid, well tended and will be enjoyable to play during the training process. Your plans seem almost as tutorials for ow to progress through the stages of being a pvp pilot, and should be viewed by new pilots unsure of how to progress their skills.
To the winners, check your contracts tab for the winnings :) All cards will be delivered in Amarr VIII Emperor Family Station. Again, thanks to you all for making this a successful venture. I'll be a better pilot for it, as will hopefully several others viewing the thread as well. Do a little work, get a free PLEX card! |

Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.06.22 17:44:00 -
[25]
Well, tbh I've done that. It doesn't work out. I've bought and sold many characters; its how I pay for my toys. At first I traded characters to get a 'leg up' as it were on acquiring a high SP, combat focused character. Within my first year of gameplay I had a 70+ mil SP character through character sales/trades starting from a 4 mil SP character I created. Problem is, I don't stay attached to the purchased characters very long and began pining for characters I made, and subsequently sold (like right now, I'm currently trying to get Runewitch back, but the buyer has gone on an extended hiatus).
I do these contests as a way of coming up with brilliant pvp plans that hopefully not only I can use, but perhaps others as well. The competition refines the plans, makes each better and each time has come out with far better training paths than I have made for myself.
Hopefully that answers your question; this might not be the most logical way to do things but it keeps me playing. |
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