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To Golem or not to Golem? Experienced Pilots Opinions Required

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Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.27 12:41:00 - [1] After I pimped out my nightmare I swapped out the tanking mods to see what they would do to my trusty old Golem. The free slots both medium and low ment I could put in a full rack of bcs and two target painters. The results were stunning if you want a great ship to kill and salvage at the same time. Only a max skill nightmare is going to run missions faster and even then thats using the nightmares superior range to blast through and not stop to salvage which is why I retired the golem in the first place. For someone who does want to salvage as he goes this is as good as it gets for an all races mission ship though the pally is pretty damn close with top skills. [Golem, Jack of all races] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Core B-Type 100MN Afterburner Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Gist X-Type Heat Dissipation Field Gist X-Type Ballistic Deflection Field Caldari Navy Siege Missile Launcher, Juggernaut Torpedo Caldari Navy Siege Missile Launcher, Juggernaut Torpedo Caldari Navy Siege Missile Launcher, Juggernaut Torpedo Caldari Navy Siege Missile Launcher, Juggernaut Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.27 13:48:00 - [2] Originally by: Yakkha Bad setup, People use Siege IIs for a reason. Tell me why? Less dps even with torp spec at 5 and a whopping 15ish km moar range using javs that costs you 100dps vs t1 ammo and 230dps with faction not to mention the extra isk flying out the door using the expensive stuff. At least faction ammo can be had at cost for a normal mission runner. Originally by: Yakkha Even with a Core-B afterburner, you only go about 375 m/s. You'll be chasing battleships that orbit outside your T1 torp range(40km+) all over the place without javalins. You also scatter the wrecks out of your 40km tractor range. And Pith X SB is just weird (you do realize the last booster on the EFT list isn't neccessarily the best one, right?) And you are going about 290ish ms with javs loaded so your still going to have to go play fetch with the wrecks. As far as chasing the bs all over the place as long as you tractor in the wreck as soon as you kill it then move to the next target you won't have any issues with inconvieniently placed wrecks. The mids are pulled right from the nightmare except for the target painters and last I checked the pith x gave you the best burst boost for your cap with hg crystals. Forgive me if you can't afford it or lack the focus to correctly use it. Originally by: Yakkha No wonder you retired your golem, apparently you didn't know how to use it...Look at some of the other setups (ex. Dracthera's setup on page 1)...you can tell if a person know how the golem works by their setup. I retired my golem because the nightmare runs it into the ground for strait up mission spamming. Instapopping everything sub bs at 90km+ with t1 crystals is a wonderful thing. Also those other golem setups are fine if you want to be a lazy cap stable mission runner but if your wanting to work your missions for max efficiency then my setup is the way to go. Don't agree? Well too bad. Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.27 15:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Yakkha To Zeba: 15km whooping range from the javalin makes the difference. You spend more than a minute burning through 15km with the AB. (and that's when the target isn't running away from you) You cap just barely last that long, (yes you can manage it with SB burst of course) What that it takes longer to kill your target with the rather dramaticaly less damage? Which in turn keeps you further away after the kill as javs kill your speed making your wrecks that much moar spread out and harder to get to? Funny that my setup is fully cap stable sans the pith x booster which only needs a couple of pulses once in a while anyways to maintain tank even under the harshest of aggro. Originally by: Yakkha You said it yourself that you really appreciate the range on the nightmare, maybe that was a hint that your golem setup is lacking in range? In missions, range=faster mission time Well lets see. Golem with max skills gets about 44km with t1/faction and about 61km with the much less damaging javs so no instapopping anything with them. Then factor in travel time and less damage due to being outside of the painters optimal range for javs. Now figure a nightmare that instantly pops things as fast as you can lock them up at over 90km. I don't salvage anymore. You figure out which is faster Sherlock. Originally by: Yakkha You are comparing damages like we never use faction torps with Siege IIs. I use faction torps for targets under 45km. However, with javalins, I can start the damage alot earlier than you can. If missions start outside your range. I can take out a couple BS before you reach your first one, no your extra rof from the CN launchers will never make up for that. Actually that extra rof will make a huge difference when as soon as a mission starts with major targets outside of your 45km range you immediatly burn towards it and ..read the next part carefully.. shoot something closer and nab its wreck to loot and salvage as it pops. By the time the closer target is dead and you are almost done with the wreck your farther target should now be in range. Rinse repeat for max effeciency at all levels. Originally by: Yakkha Pith X-XL with crystals does NOT give you the best hp/cap. Pithium-A does, I thought everyone knew that. Yes, I have HG crystals to give the Pithium-A enough kick to give me more than enough tank for L4s. Erm sorry forgot this is eft land with lots of creative 'math' with good intentioned but impractical results. It takes a pithum a med booster 12 seconds to boost what the pith x does instantly and yet again 4 seconds later. Does it use moar cap per hp injected? Yes it does but not by too much plus it gives you all that hp at once when you need it and not 12 seconds later. The difference in cap use is irrelevant as neither will cap you out before your shield is back to full it just gets full almoast instantly with the pith x. This might come in handy when the ebil faction hunters come a calling and bring the pain until concord arrives. I surely know which booster I would want in that situation. Originally by: Yakkha My point with the tractor range is that when you chase target that orbit further than ~43km, it forces the wrecks to spread out in all directions. With javalins the wrecks will be less scattered, yes you need to fly to them but once you reach that cluster, you don't have to move. Again, your setup is NOT the most efficient way of doing missions with golem. ESPECAILLY when you are salvaging. Dude when your killing stuff 40km away you tractor, salvage and loot it immediatly. No need to try some elaborate juggling act with crappy damage javs and 'wreck shaping' for 'faster' salvage later. Please just stop mate. It pains me to pull people up short like this. Reminds me of that silly mining denial op Noir. tried to pull in Hedion and brag about on the forums. And we all know how them bumping that thread over and over telling me I didn't know what I was talking about got them. But hey your just a faceless alt so you probably don't care what people think about you anyways. Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.27 16:19:00 - [4] Originally by: Yakkha I feel you are just arguing with me now for the sake of arguing. I guess I offended you in the first post since you are getting really personal on the last portion of your post. Well moast people I know who post perfectly legit and effecient setups might take a bit of offense to the closing sentence of your first poast if not the whole poast. Originally by: Yakkha No wonder you retired your golem, apparently you didn't know how to use it...Look at some of the other setups (ex. Dracthera's setup on page 1)...you can tell if a person knows how the golem works by their setup. Sounds pretty snarky and backhanded to me that my setup didn't fit in your incorrect view of efficient mission running in a salvaging torp golem. Sorry if I'm a bit moar direct with my opinions and don't fluffy them up with non-confrontational verbal gloss hiding the razor. Originally by: Yakkha I didn't get anything new out of your last post, you were getting subjective and situational with each cases. I made my point. Take it or leave it. Well of course you didn't get anything new as I was simply trying to detail out why my setup works best for a mission runner who wants to actually run the mission and actively cram as much apm into the process as possible. You don't seem to be able to get the concept that cap stable long range golem setups are for casual mission running and not hardcore count the volleys and switch targets mid flight to the next target as you tractor in and salvage/loot the wrecks. Its not an easy fit to use as you need to know all your missions backwards and forwards to know what to aggro first and what direction you need to initialy head in to keep in range of all the new spawns. Sorry if understanding this point of view is beyond you mate. Nothing personal just giving out an opinion. :-D Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.27 16:40:00 - [5] Originally by: GGjita But as I was saying Yakkha, don't take it personal, Zeba is either one of those 3-4 year old "geniuses" that obviously "knows" how to play Eve or he is a 4 month old nub that just likes to talk on the forums about ships he can't actually fly. Oh look its the other forum troll GGjita! Hiya! See kids this is what you get for not poasting killmails. Lots of faceless alts attacking at every turn due to bitter rage. Ah well they die in flames just as well on the forums as in the game. Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.27 16:49:00 - [6] Originally by: GGjita So sweet, but i am a carebear to heart, so i don't have enough kills or killmails to fill a whole screen. Pve on the other hand well i live there and enjoy it, i'm also very good at it. Thats not all your good at. Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.27 16:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Yakkha Apologies, I believe I was confrontational in the first post and talking down a bit. I still believe the setup I referred to on the first page is more efficient overall. Many, if not all, will agree. Fair enough. Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.28 19:48:00 - [8] Originally by: Nu Wa Moral of the story: Use T2 Siege and carry some Javalins. For the ones sticking with T1 Siege, happy chasing :) What he didn't tell you is that as your 'chasing' a target you should be shooting at the closer targets and salvaging them as you go. No matter what mission you get where targets spawn outside of your initial range there is always something else closerto shoot as you move along. Besides who wants to chase down all those wrecks scattered about that were eventually killed by the javs outside of your tractor range? Did you factor in the travel time for that too in your list? We are talking about setups for a salvaging solo mission running golem with no second account salvager tagging along yes? Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.28 21:09:00 - [9] Edited by: Zeba on 28/05/2009 21:15:52 If you start with the ship farthest to one side or the other then you end up chasing them into a ball. Its all in how you run the mission and herd the rats about. Remember that you have a direct influance over where the rats end up if you plot the path of your ship correctly to the spawns. Just think of your ship as a sheep dog that kills his flock as he herds it about instead of protecting it. I guess this is why the majority of people just give up and use the easier long range solutions as it takes quite a bit of finesse and focus to consistantly pull off. And in all fairness when your running in a golem your baseline completion speed is going to drop like a rock compared to another salvaging mission ship regardless of if you use cruise or torps. But if you want the maximum isk per hour no matter how small the increment and can devote 110% focus on the many simultanious tasks at hand then my setup will get you there. Edit: and yet another reason I retired the golem in favor of the nightmare. The nightmare is just lock and shoot with no silly volley counting or elaborate manuvoring or all the other apm intensive crap you have to do to make a golem rake in the iskies. Hell I run mission so fast now I loose isk if I bother to bother to salvage any of it. Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.29 21:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Chomapuraku oh, and good luck herding rats to stay within the 30-something km range of a short-range torp setup. if you really like that much micro-management in your missions, more power to you, but I (and probably everyone else in this thread) prefer more of a Ronco approach (just set it... and forget it!) Oh it's quite possible and the reason why I quit using missile based boats as soon as the laser skills matured for a nightmare. I simply couldn't be arsed to run missions anymoar with an average apm of 50~80 just to max the isk per hour. Nightmare maxed out the isk per hour without the need to salvage and still cut the apm by at least half as its just lock and shoot as you go from gate to gate. No ammo cost past the initial t1 crystals and no reloading evah except maybe to instantly switch ammo to a closer range. Even a cruise golem with the correct damage type for the current rats can't manage that level of effortless turbo mission spamming as you still need to count your volleys. Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.05.30 01:22:00 - [11] Originally by: Sheikh Yarbhouti No automated software of any kind, as that's against both the EULA and the spirit of the game. No, I just use 2 PCs with the clients running in windowed mode (bearable since I have large monitors). Yeah some people seem to think that just because they have issues with multitasking everyone else has them too. Originally by: Fifinella As to trying to scare me with 0.0/lowsec, well,..... I've been there, and wasn't very scared at all. Only a little.

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