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NoHawker
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Posted - 2004.09.09 21:12:00 -
[1]
Last time I checked Battleships where WARSHIPS!, do you know what this means? This means I can take this ship and kill things in times of war or peace or whatever. A warships can seek out and destroy other warships with success. That's how they always where and will be or else a warship just can't be called a warship now can it? I can do this either on my own or in a fleet. All warships can seek out, engage and destroy other warships.
In EVE the Battleship is more like a catapult, cannon or some other type of siege engine. Powerful but generally useless unless supported like an old grandmother who needs to sit down slowly. Battleships are one of the most impotent vessels in EVE unless they had their Viagra (frigate support and cruiser support to some extent).
Nowadays you need about a -3 warp scrambler strength to prevent warp outs, a webber to prevent mwd escapes and 2 sensor boosters to acquire targets before they warp out and a mwd or 2 to close in fast enough to activate your warp jammers and webbers. Having all of these electronics kills your Battleship chances to survive a fight against a half prepared opponent are slim to none. The other solution is to come battle ready with maybe a single measly laughable warp disruptor. You will kill nothing, absolutely nothing unless you arrange a fight or some one choses to have a duel with you. In combat you don't ask permission from your adversary or you don't cut your wrist before a fight either.
I'm not unreasonable and I only want to kill other Battleships and Industrials with my Battleship, I'm not asking for the ability to kill frigates or cruisers. I want to be able to engage in a fight maybe 25% of the time, which means basically I can force a fight to the death with other Battleships 1 out of 4 times as it stands right now chances or more like 5% or less. When I engage in a fight against another Battleship I want to be in full combat readiness that means I want to equip all the little toys that make my ship tougher in battles so I can stand toe to toe against my adversary.
I know you people are going to either troll or give half ass'd solutions to this problem, stuff like armor tank an Apocalypse and use your medium slots to capture or fly a Gankaddon and kill things before they get a chance to blink. These solutions are not solutions but only bandages trying to cover a gaping wound in the mechanics of game play. I ask what about other Battleships are they useless for solo hunts then? I will also state that these ôsolutionsö do little to help you engage in a fight and you will still be weaker for it in battle.
So like the Bismark I would like to be able to hunt and destroy and have all my offensive and defensive abilities for battle intact but since this is a game and carebears need a chance to escape you can go ahead and artificially cut my chances to engage in fights down to say 25% against Battleships, 10% against Cruisers, 0% against frigates, shuttles and pods and 75% against Industrials. Killing frigates, interceptors and industrials with my Interceptor is getting lame... too small time.
What are you going to do?
I'm going to kill them all sir |
NoHawker
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Posted - 2004.09.09 21:12:00 -
[2]
Last time I checked Battleships where WARSHIPS!, do you know what this means? This means I can take this ship and kill things in times of war or peace or whatever. A warships can seek out and destroy other warships with success. That's how they always where and will be or else a warship just can't be called a warship now can it? I can do this either on my own or in a fleet. All warships can seek out, engage and destroy other warships.
In EVE the Battleship is more like a catapult, cannon or some other type of siege engine. Powerful but generally useless unless supported like an old grandmother who needs to sit down slowly. Battleships are one of the most impotent vessels in EVE unless they had their Viagra (frigate support and cruiser support to some extent).
Nowadays you need about a -3 warp scrambler strength to prevent warp outs, a webber to prevent mwd escapes and 2 sensor boosters to acquire targets before they warp out and a mwd or 2 to close in fast enough to activate your warp jammers and webbers. Having all of these electronics kills your Battleship chances to survive a fight against a half prepared opponent are slim to none. The other solution is to come battle ready with maybe a single measly laughable warp disruptor. You will kill nothing, absolutely nothing unless you arrange a fight or some one choses to have a duel with you. In combat you don't ask permission from your adversary or you don't cut your wrist before a fight either.
I'm not unreasonable and I only want to kill other Battleships and Industrials with my Battleship, I'm not asking for the ability to kill frigates or cruisers. I want to be able to engage in a fight maybe 25% of the time, which means basically I can force a fight to the death with other Battleships 1 out of 4 times as it stands right now chances or more like 5% or less. When I engage in a fight against another Battleship I want to be in full combat readiness that means I want to equip all the little toys that make my ship tougher in battles so I can stand toe to toe against my adversary.
I know you people are going to either troll or give half ass'd solutions to this problem, stuff like armor tank an Apocalypse and use your medium slots to capture or fly a Gankaddon and kill things before they get a chance to blink. These solutions are not solutions but only bandages trying to cover a gaping wound in the mechanics of game play. I ask what about other Battleships are they useless for solo hunts then? I will also state that these ôsolutionsö do little to help you engage in a fight and you will still be weaker for it in battle.
So like the Bismark I would like to be able to hunt and destroy and have all my offensive and defensive abilities for battle intact but since this is a game and carebears need a chance to escape you can go ahead and artificially cut my chances to engage in fights down to say 25% against Battleships, 10% against Cruisers, 0% against frigates, shuttles and pods and 75% against Industrials. Killing frigates, interceptors and industrials with my Interceptor is getting lame... too small time.
What are you going to do?
I'm going to kill them all sir |
Lurk
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Posted - 2004.09.09 21:26:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Lurk on 09/09/2004 21:28:34
If your enemy has 2 WCS he sacrifices 2 low slots, if he has a mwd he has a med slot less.
So your opponent uses 3 slots and you use 3 slots to counter that ... sounds pretty ok for me.
Edit: As for the sensor boosters: Get your skills up man, if you need 2 sensor boosters to target BS you do something wrong.
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Lurk
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Posted - 2004.09.09 21:26:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Lurk on 09/09/2004 21:28:34
If your enemy has 2 WCS he sacrifices 2 low slots, if he has a mwd he has a med slot less.
So your opponent uses 3 slots and you use 3 slots to counter that ... sounds pretty ok for me.
Edit: As for the sensor boosters: Get your skills up man, if you need 2 sensor boosters to target BS you do something wrong.
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Marcus Janus
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Posted - 2004.09.09 21:26:00 -
[5]
Yes like the Bismark, you should be sunk by smaller ships used in groups...
You've got it
oh wait it's already like that.
On a Historical Note
A battle ship is the center of a fleet, not some solo ship out hunting on it's own....(Well were when they were effective ships)
To bring in a modern reference a Aircraft carrier is the center of a fleet, it has the real firepower but with out it's supporting cruiser, destroyers, frigates, subs etc it's a sitting duck.
Warship is a very broad term use it carefully.
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Marcus Janus
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Posted - 2004.09.09 21:26:00 -
[6]
Yes like the Bismark, you should be sunk by smaller ships used in groups...
You've got it
oh wait it's already like that.
On a Historical Note
A battle ship is the center of a fleet, not some solo ship out hunting on it's own....(Well were when they were effective ships)
To bring in a modern reference a Aircraft carrier is the center of a fleet, it has the real firepower but with out it's supporting cruiser, destroyers, frigates, subs etc it's a sitting duck.
Warship is a very broad term use it carefully.
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fairimear
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Posted - 2004.09.09 21:30:00 -
[7]
no im waiting for dreadnoughts to fill that role.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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fairimear
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Posted - 2004.09.09 21:30:00 -
[8]
no im waiting for dreadnoughts to fill that role.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Jiggy
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Posted - 2004.09.09 21:44:00 -
[9]
Large expensive ships have always been and always will be vunerable to fleets of cheaper smaller vessels and always will be unless protected by the a picket fleet of smaller ships.
On a historical note while the bismark was sunk by a mostly cruiser size fleet its rudder was jammed so it could only sail around in circles by a catapult launched torpedo plane who got a lucky shot, so it was the equivalent of a EVE drone that was mostly responsible for the sinking of the ship.
So if you want EVE to be realistic it should stay somewhat similar to what it is now and I personally think that its more fun when you can just jump into a frigate and have fun rather then having to have battleships to do anything worth while.
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Jiggy
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Posted - 2004.09.09 21:44:00 -
[10]
Large expensive ships have always been and always will be vunerable to fleets of cheaper smaller vessels and always will be unless protected by the a picket fleet of smaller ships.
On a historical note while the bismark was sunk by a mostly cruiser size fleet its rudder was jammed so it could only sail around in circles by a catapult launched torpedo plane who got a lucky shot, so it was the equivalent of a EVE drone that was mostly responsible for the sinking of the ship.
So if you want EVE to be realistic it should stay somewhat similar to what it is now and I personally think that its more fun when you can just jump into a frigate and have fun rather then having to have battleships to do anything worth while.
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2004.09.09 21:58:00 -
[11]
Simple solution, remove WCSs .. I'm all for it \o/
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2004.09.09 21:58:00 -
[12]
Simple solution, remove WCSs .. I'm all for it \o/
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.09.09 22:00:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 09/09/2004 22:08:22
No-one said the utter destruction of the others ship was the sole goal of combat. Whoever warps out last wins.
Makes repairs more costly and timeconsuming and people just may end up flying damaged ships with faulty modules at some point.
Convert Stations
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.09.09 22:00:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 09/09/2004 22:08:22
No-one said the utter destruction of the others ship was the sole goal of combat. Whoever warps out last wins.
Makes repairs more costly and timeconsuming and people just may end up flying damaged ships with faulty modules at some point.
Convert Stations
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.09.09 22:04:00 -
[15]
I have no or nearly no problems flying a solo BS around.
Just adapt your travel setup to be able to deal with some frigs, other then that its the same o same o like allways.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.09.09 22:04:00 -
[16]
I have no or nearly no problems flying a solo BS around.
Just adapt your travel setup to be able to deal with some frigs, other then that its the same o same o like allways.
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Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2004.09.09 22:12:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Mynobe Soletae on 09/09/2004 22:17:07
 Originally by: NoHawker
I want to be in full combat readiness that means I want to equip all the little toys that make my ship tougher in battles so I can stand toe to toe against my adversary.
Well if they add extra med and low slots, guess what, your enemies will also install little toys, so you'll need -6 warp scrambler strength and proportionally more "little toys", making any change pointless.
Originally by: NoHawker
cut my chances to engage in fights down to say 25% against Battleships, 10% against Cruisers, 0% against frigates, shuttles and pods and 75% against Industrials
Where'd you pull those numbers from?
Personally, fine, have CCP make battleships the real destructive powers they used to be historically, but tell me how many civilians have actually owned battleships historically? So make them NPC-only ships, and limit the players to frigates, cruisers, and industrials then, how about that?
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Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2004.09.09 22:12:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Mynobe Soletae on 09/09/2004 22:17:07
Originally by: NoHawker
I want to be in full combat readiness that means I want to equip all the little toys that make my ship tougher in battles so I can stand toe to toe against my adversary.
Well if they add extra med and low slots, guess what, your enemies will also install little toys, so you'll need -6 warp scrambler strength and proportionally more "little toys", making any change pointless.
Originally by: NoHawker
cut my chances to engage in fights down to say 25% against Battleships, 10% against Cruisers, 0% against frigates, shuttles and pods and 75% against Industrials
Where'd you pull those numbers from?
Personally, fine, have CCP make battleships the real destructive powers they used to be historically, but tell me how many civilians have actually owned battleships historically? So make them NPC-only ships, and limit the players to frigates, cruisers, and industrials then, how about that?
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Gift
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Posted - 2004.09.09 22:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Simple solution, remove WCSs .. I'm all for it \o/
or atleast put them back as midslot items.
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Gift
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Posted - 2004.09.09 22:25:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Simple solution, remove WCSs .. I'm all for it \o/
or atleast put them back as midslot items.
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Fetty Chico
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Posted - 2004.09.09 22:31:00 -
[21]
A battleship is about area control
if the enemy has to run, You control the area
sure havin it littered wif corpses is fun, but it aint everything
------------------------------------------------
Tell my tale to those who ask.
Tell it truly - the ill deeds, along with the good - and let me be judged accordingly.
If this world was supposed to be friendly
CCP wouldnt have wasted time paying the devs to code so many weapons |
Fetty Chico
|
Posted - 2004.09.09 22:31:00 -
[22]
A battleship is about area control
if the enemy has to run, You control the area
sure havin it littered wif corpses is fun, but it aint everything
------------------------------------------------
Tell my tale to those who ask.
Tell it truly - the ill deeds, along with the good - and let me be judged accordingly.
If this world was supposed to be friendly
CCP wouldnt have wasted time paying the devs to code so many weapons |
NoHawker
|
Posted - 2004.09.10 00:07:00 -
[23]
Quote:
If your enemy has 2 WCS he sacrifices 2 low slots, if he has a mwd he has a med slot less.
So your opponent uses 3 slots and you use 3 slots to counter that ... sounds pretty ok for me.
Sacrificing 2 low slots for warp stabs is nothing compared to sacrificng 3 medium slots for warp jammers. He was an MWD and so will I that part is moot.
Quote:
Edit: As for the sensor boosters: Get your skills up man, if you need 2 sensor boosters to target BS you do something wrong.
1 sensor booster isn't fast enough to lock Battleships so I need 2. My skill for lock times is at level 5.
Quote:
Yes like the Bismark, you should be sunk by smaller ships used in groups...
You've got it
oh wait it's already like that.
I don't have a problem with that I'll just do my best to avoid those situations.
Quote:
On a Historical Note
A battle ship is the center of a fleet, not some solo ship out hunting on it's own....(Well were when they were effective ships)
Bismark. The birts didn't send a fleet after the Bismark because they needed support ships to find and force her to battle they sent in a fleet because the Bismark would have destroyed them if they didn't outnumber her.
Quote:
So if you want EVE to be realistic it should stay somewhat similar to what it is now and I personally think that its more fun when you can just jump into a frigate and have fun rather then having to have battleships to do anything worth while.
I didn't say a Battleship is the only way to hunt I'm just saying that you SHOULD be able to hunt with her and not with a 5% chance of engaging targets.
Quote:
Well if they add extra med and low slots, guess what, your enemies will also install little toys, so you'll need -6 warp scrambler strength and proportionally more "little toys", making any change pointless.
That's because their should be a seperate family of slots for electronic equipment. If I win the prelamnery electronics battle I trapped the ship and it's time for combat if I fail he can escape at his leisure. I don't think you should have to sacrifice firepower or defensive capabilites for electronics.
What are you going to do?
I'm going to kill them all sir |
NoHawker
|
Posted - 2004.09.10 00:07:00 -
[24]
Quote:
If your enemy has 2 WCS he sacrifices 2 low slots, if he has a mwd he has a med slot less.
So your opponent uses 3 slots and you use 3 slots to counter that ... sounds pretty ok for me.
Sacrificing 2 low slots for warp stabs is nothing compared to sacrificng 3 medium slots for warp jammers. He was an MWD and so will I that part is moot.
Quote:
Edit: As for the sensor boosters: Get your skills up man, if you need 2 sensor boosters to target BS you do something wrong.
1 sensor booster isn't fast enough to lock Battleships so I need 2. My skill for lock times is at level 5.
Quote:
Yes like the Bismark, you should be sunk by smaller ships used in groups...
You've got it
oh wait it's already like that.
I don't have a problem with that I'll just do my best to avoid those situations.
Quote:
On a Historical Note
A battle ship is the center of a fleet, not some solo ship out hunting on it's own....(Well were when they were effective ships)
Bismark. The birts didn't send a fleet after the Bismark because they needed support ships to find and force her to battle they sent in a fleet because the Bismark would have destroyed them if they didn't outnumber her.
Quote:
So if you want EVE to be realistic it should stay somewhat similar to what it is now and I personally think that its more fun when you can just jump into a frigate and have fun rather then having to have battleships to do anything worth while.
I didn't say a Battleship is the only way to hunt I'm just saying that you SHOULD be able to hunt with her and not with a 5% chance of engaging targets.
Quote:
Well if they add extra med and low slots, guess what, your enemies will also install little toys, so you'll need -6 warp scrambler strength and proportionally more "little toys", making any change pointless.
That's because their should be a seperate family of slots for electronic equipment. If I win the prelamnery electronics battle I trapped the ship and it's time for combat if I fail he can escape at his leisure. I don't think you should have to sacrifice firepower or defensive capabilites for electronics.
What are you going to do?
I'm going to kill them all sir |
Mynobe Soletae
|
Posted - 2004.09.10 01:02:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Mynobe Soletae on 10/09/2004 01:08:51
Originally by: NoHawker
That's because their should be a seperate family of slots for electronic equipment. If I win the prelamnery electronics battle I trapped the ship and it's time for combat if I fail he can escape at his leisure. I don't think you should have to sacrifice firepower or defensive capabilites for electronics.
Having a separate set of slots for EW would, I think, kill the variety you have now, and pretty much predetermine the outcome. Simply, someone like me would have every such slot fitted for defense, forcing you to fit every slot offensively and STILL not be able to catch me. 6 stabilizers vs. 6 disruptors, or sensors vs. jammers, the defender always has the advantage.
You'd pretty much require 2 vs. 1 scenarios. It would encourage ganking.
Maybe instead of a separate slot, they could let EW modules fit any slot. Thus making EW not interfere as much with a ship's chosen method of defense (shields vs. armor tanking), and so on.
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Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2004.09.10 01:02:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Mynobe Soletae on 10/09/2004 01:08:51
Originally by: NoHawker
That's because their should be a seperate family of slots for electronic equipment. If I win the prelamnery electronics battle I trapped the ship and it's time for combat if I fail he can escape at his leisure. I don't think you should have to sacrifice firepower or defensive capabilites for electronics.
Having a separate set of slots for EW would, I think, kill the variety you have now, and pretty much predetermine the outcome. Simply, someone like me would have every such slot fitted for defense, forcing you to fit every slot offensively and STILL not be able to catch me. 6 stabilizers vs. 6 disruptors, or sensors vs. jammers, the defender always has the advantage.
You'd pretty much require 2 vs. 1 scenarios. It would encourage ganking.
Maybe instead of a separate slot, they could let EW modules fit any slot. Thus making EW not interfere as much with a ship's chosen method of defense (shields vs. armor tanking), and so on.
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Minka
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Posted - 2004.09.10 04:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Simple solution, remove WCSs .. I'm all for it \o/
They should get rid of concord. concod is always denying me my civil rights, they are mean.
TEXANS!
Visit the Texas channel in-game! |
Minka
|
Posted - 2004.09.10 04:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Simple solution, remove WCSs .. I'm all for it \o/
They should get rid of concord. concod is always denying me my civil rights, they are mean.
TEXANS!
Visit the Texas channel in-game! |
Fuse
|
Posted - 2004.09.10 06:40:00 -
[29]
Originally by: fairimear
no im waiting for dreadnoughts to fill that role.
If you expect or dream that ccp will do something you will be sadly disappointed. If they even hint it in the interface don't expect it. Reverse engineering, tech 2 and advanced mining drones on and on and on. It's a great game but they leave gaping holes in it.
0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
Fuse
|
Posted - 2004.09.10 06:40:00 -
[30]
Originally by: fairimear
no im waiting for dreadnoughts to fill that role.
If you expect or dream that ccp will do something you will be sadly disappointed. If they even hint it in the interface don't expect it. Reverse engineering, tech 2 and advanced mining drones on and on and on. It's a great game but they leave gaping holes in it.
0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
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