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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.05.29 16:18:00 -
[31]
Just check what the two armies stood against:
Imperial Fleet got basically spanked by a bunch of rebels.
Imperium of Man stands off and survives against stuff like demons Tyranides, Undead, Demons and other assortments of genocidal entities.
Starwars doesn't have a chance.
Also compare the abilities of a 40k psychic with the average Jedi.
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Ideas for: Mining
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Distorted Perception
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Posted - 2009.05.29 16:25:00 -
[32]
Space marines have no balls. Nor ****s. Just throwing that useful bit of info out there.
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goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.29 16:32:00 -
[33]
A couple things not addressed...
1)Stormtroopers might be killed by the marines by the hundreds but remember they are clones, if one dies 10 fill his place.
2)The force, vader>legions enough said.
3)Force being used to get better tech, vader force chokes everybody onboard their main capital ship, they pull the capital ship in, steal its technology and at that point gain the upper hand.
To me, war of attrition=empire wins.
Swift victory=marines win.
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Zyck
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.29 16:53:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: goodby4u
A couple things not addressed...
1)Stormtroopers might be killed by the marines by the hundreds but remember they are clones, if one dies 10 fill his place.
2)The force, vader>legions enough said.
3)Force being used to get better tech, vader force chokes everybody onboard their main capital ship, they pull the capital ship in, steal its technology and at that point gain the upper hand.
To me, war of attrition=empire wins.
Swift victory=marines win.
The more powerful psykers of the Imperium would squash Vader like you might kill a fly. And a lightsaber isn't going to be very effective against a bolter round, let alone plasma or melta shots.
Not to mention the tens, if not hundreds of billions of Imperial Guardsmen, all of who are fanatically devoted to the Imperium with a literally religious ferocity.
They don't surrender and would give no mercy.
The IoM also spans almost the entire galaxy and contains millions of planets. They also have a moral standard that makes the Emperor (SW) look like a merciful carebear.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:07:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 29/05/2009 17:09:06
Pretty sure the Imperial Guard has recruits in the trillions, not billions - imagine, a thousand settled worlds, each forced to contribute a tithe of conscripts to the guard. Hell, there's single hive-worlds in 40k with trillion-plus populations.
Stormtroopers may be clones, but it takes a lot more time to grow a clone than it does to put a bolter slug through his thin shiny plastic helmet. Conversely, the weapon Stormtroopers appear to be armed with, is weaker, slower-firing and less accurate than a normal Imperial Guard lasgun. Except half the time, the IG is carrying a melta or plasma gun, or grenade launcher or whatever - or he's part of a heavy weapon team. |
Zakarazor
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:23:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 29/05/2009 17:09:06
Pretty sure the Imperial Guard has recruits in the trillions, not billions - imagine, a thousand settled worlds, each forced to contribute a tithe of conscripts to the guard. Hell, there's single hive-worlds in 40k with trillion-plus populations.
Stormtroopers may be clones, but it takes a lot more time to grow a clone than it does to put a bolter slug through his thin shiny plastic helmet. Conversely, the weapon Stormtroopers appear to be armed with, is weaker, slower-firing and less accurate than a normal Imperial Guard lasgun. Except half the time, the IG is carrying a melta or plasma gun, or grenade launcher or whatever - or he's part of a heavy weapon team.
not to mention these
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:23:00 -
[37]
Vader?
If Vader ever shows up the conversation is probably going to be something like this.
Lieutenant: Captain. We've faced a man that apparently can see into the future, parry lasblasts, choke people even if they're in orbit around a planet he's on and he can read minds.
Captain: So basically like every other chaos warlord we've faced? Or the Eldar? Or the Tyranids?
Lieutenant: Yeah. Pretty much.
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-My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Daphne Mezereum
Caldari
Half Lethal
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:27:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Daphne Mezereum on 29/05/2009 17:28:18
Istvaan is correct (are you hungarian btw?), hell, a single hive city probably has its accojnted population in the billions, not to mention all those who live in the lower tracts.
Since this is an emergency, I think we can go with 50-70% mobilisation rates (Caida has a mob rate of 90%). Lets say that 1 out of every 5 persons is fit for mobilisation (that 20-50 males only, btw). Lets say that there are ten hives on a Hiveworld, and one hive has a population of 2B, both very, very low estimates.
Lets plonck down a hundred hiveworlds in Segmentum Solar (aslo an underestimate considering the SS is the oldest and most populated segment).
This means we have 100*10*0.2*0.5=100 billion of IG bodies to throw at the invading fleet, called up and ready to fight in about 2-3 month (traingi, logistics and transportation included)
If we go by Horus Heresy conscription rates (Necromunda and Armageddon being conscripted half dry), and mobilize at least two segments, we have at the lowest, 5-10 trillion (!!!) bodies to throw at anything Vader and his pathetic little fluffybunny universe can show up with.
And this excludes any conscription outside hive worlds, any chapter, Legio, or AM group that will show up.
As someone in the linked thread has pointed out, the whole of the Solar System is nothing but one big fortress. Earth itself is covered in km deep plasteel.
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Incantare
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:42:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Zakarazor
not to mention these
Or these.
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Thuranni
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:42:00 -
[40]
Someone post that GIF comparing the size of a Star Destroyer to Emperor-class battleship, please.
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Thuranni
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:51:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Thuranni on 29/05/2009 17:51:41
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 29/05/2009 08:16:52
Instead of just naming different technologies, try doing the physics calculations and comparing the actual damage done by each side. End result is 40k gets blown to scrap metal, and that's not even counting the three most beautiful words in a scifi debate: "commence primary ignition".
And that's not even considering the Empire's massive industrial advantage... millions of systems, and the ability to build the second death star in months in complete secrecy. Consider how many ships would fit in the volume of the death star, and what that means for the production rate of traditional ships.
PS: who cares about ground troops. It doesn't matter how awesome they are if they just die uselessly to orbital bombardment.
Originally by: Sadayiel
any normal fleet size on wh40k got enough firepower for Exterminatus if needed (devastate a whole planet),while in star wars they need the freaking death star.
Two mistakes:
1) The death star is not necessary. A single star destroyer can reduce a planet to a giant pool of molten rock within a matter of hours.
2) The death star represents orders of magnitude more firepower than simply "devastating" a planet. The death star doesn't just utterly destroy the planet, it explodes it with such massive overkill that the fragments are completely blown apart into a huge asteroid field (consider the gravitational potential energy that needs to be overcome to do this).
Those physics calculations based on the effects in the movies are grade A bull****. The movie effects were done because they looked cool, not because they wanted to communicate any sense of the power of the weaponry. The effects in the movies are almost physically impossible, and thus if you want to rationalize them you can only do so by giving the weaponry absurd firepower.
Also, your bit about a single SD reducing a planet to molten slag is never mentioned in the movies, only the expanded universe. The EU should be disregarded as the horrible fanfiction which it is, and thus is completely irrelevant.
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Incantare
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:53:00 -
[42]
By the way the correct answer is the Tau. Properly microed firewarriors > marines.
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Tsubutai
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:47:00 -
[43]
The imperium holds its own against, among other things: a race of biomechanical alien horrors that would make the xenomorphs run for mommy; an army of ghosts in metallic battle-tombs that serve gods who eat hope; and the legions of hell itself.
The empire got its **** ruined by a ****ing farmer.
In order to get from A to B, ships of the empire pull the hyperspace lever and wait. Ships of the imperium literally take a shortcut through hell.
The soldiers of the empire are useless idiots who cannot even manage to kill lightly-armed, unarmoured rebels. The soldiers of the imperium are seven foot tall genetically-enhanced supermen in power armour, whose standard sidearm is an automatic grenade launcher. The imperium's other army is commanded by men who would make Stalin's commissars uncomfortable, has several trillion men under arms, and fields tanks that can level cities.
It would be an amusingly brief war.
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Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.29 19:29:00 -
[44]
Omg, I love these <fiction universe> vs. <fiction universe> wars. The one that that usually wins is:
a) Has more raving fanboys.
b) Writer has more terrible sense of scale. Because bigger the exponent number the cooler you are, right?
I have just couple words for you: starwars were not that good, "midichlorians" and "Imeprium of Man WHO?!?"
Also, Star trek rules anyway: Character shield is impenetrable and you can solve any problem by reversing polarity.
Joomla! in EVE - IGB compatible CMS. |
Thuranni
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
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Posted - 2009.05.29 19:34:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Thuranni on 29/05/2009 19:34:44
Originally by: Tsubutai
The imperium holds its own against, among other things: a race of biomechanical alien horrors that would make the xenomorphs run for mommy; an army of ghosts in metallic battle-tombs that serve gods who eat hope; and the legions of hell itself.
The empire got its **** ruined by a ****ing farmer.
In order to get from A to B, ships of the empire pull the hyperspace lever and wait. Ships of the imperium literally take a shortcut through hell.
The soldiers of the empire are useless idiots who cannot even manage to kill lightly-armed, unarmoured rebels. The soldiers of the imperium are seven foot tall genetically-enhanced supermen in power armour, whose standard sidearm is an automatic grenade launcher. The imperium's other army is commanded by men who would make Stalin's commissars uncomfortable, has several trillion men under arms, and fields tanks that can level cities.
It would be an amusingly brief war.
You forgot the dozens of kilometer long battleships that fire nuclear torpedoes the size of skysc****rs.
Originally by: Lumy
Omg, I love these <fiction universe> vs. <fiction universe> wars. The one that that usually wins is:
a) Has more raving fanboys.
b) Writer has more terrible sense of scale. Because bigger the exponent number the cooler you are, right?
I have just couple words for you: starwars were not that good, "midichlorians" and "Imeprium of Man WHO?!?"
Also, Star trek rules anyway: Character shield is impenetrable and you can solve any problem by reversing polarity.
Of course they are stupid and moronic. That doesn't make them any less fun.
edit: Bwahahaha you can't say skyskrap3r?! 
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Corwain
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Posted - 2009.05.29 20:37:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Thuranni
Someone post that GIF comparing the size of a Star Destroyer to Emperor-class battleship, please.
Here is one
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.05.29 20:39:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Thuranni
You forgot the dozens of kilometer long battleships that fire nuclear torpedoes the size of skysc****rs.
Or the fact that if you **** him off enough, the mummified Emperor of Man will use his mind to rip open a warp storm in the middle of your fleet. Let's see those funny Imperial ship crewmen with the goofy helmets keep their cool when the nearest bulkhead turns into a screaming mass of fire-vomiting, flesh eating demon wangs.
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Corwain
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Posted - 2009.05.29 20:45:00 -
[48]
Quite honestly Merin's claims are pretty much equivalent to saying that Vader can single handedly punch out Cthulhu. I mean really, you just can't win where Lovecraftian Horrors are concerned.
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Thuranni
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
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Posted - 2009.05.29 21:28:00 -
[49]
Warhammer 40k fan circlejerk itt
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Zakarazor
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Posted - 2009.05.29 21:38:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: Thuranni
Someone post that GIF comparing the size of a Star Destroyer to Emperor-class battleship, please.
Here is one
lulz...just checked the site. the Star Destroyer(1.6km long) is ****ing tiny compared to the Imperial Retribution Class Battleship BloodHawk (7.5km long)
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Thuranni
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
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Posted - 2009.05.29 21:47:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Zakarazor
Edited by: Zakarazor on 29/05/2009 21:39:52
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: Thuranni
Someone post that GIF comparing the size of a Star Destroyer to Emperor-class battleship, please.
Here is one
lulz...just checked the site. the Star Destroyer(1.6km long) is ****ing tiny compared to the Imperial Retribution Class Battleship BloodHawk (7.5km long)
edit: i just looked closer at the picture...the forward GUN on the imperial ship is almost as big as the star destroyer...i think i know which one would win there
I think it'd be fairer to compare the SD to imperial Cruisers rather than Battleships. Those are about half of the size of the Retribution, so they'd still dwarf the ISD by quite a large margin.
And that's not a gun, it's a ram. 
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Zakarazor
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Posted - 2009.05.29 21:54:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Thuranni
Originally by: Zakarazor
Edited by: Zakarazor on 29/05/2009 21:39:52
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: Thuranni
Someone post that GIF comparing the size of a Star Destroyer to Emperor-class battleship, please.
Here is one
lulz...just checked the site. the Star Destroyer(1.6km long) is ****ing tiny compared to the Imperial Retribution Class Battleship BloodHawk (7.5km long)
edit: i just looked closer at the picture...the forward GUN on the imperial ship is almost as big as the star destroyer...i think i know which one would win there
I think it'd be fairer to compare the SD to imperial Cruisers rather than Battleships. Those are about half of the size of the Retribution, so they'd still dwarf the ISD by quite a large margin.
And that's not a gun, it's a ram.
oh...my mistake. well then the ISD will become a nice hood ornament then
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Jhagiti Tyran
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2009.05.29 22:12:00 -
[53]
Don't forget the Imperium has its own Death star style battle stations like the Ramacles class star forts they only lack the super laser.
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Zyck
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.05.29 22:33:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Don't forget the Imperium has its own Death star style battle stations like the Ramacles class star forts they only lack the super laser.
Who needs a super laser when you have virus torpedo's that literally liquify anything organic on a planet
Or, failing that, just rip it apart from the inside out.
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nahtoh
Caldari
Vanguard Frontiers
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.05.29 22:37:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Zakarazor
the culture is kinda hax isnt it merin^^
WTF is "the culture"?
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"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
HarrytheBarstool
Ecky Thump Ltd
The Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2009.05.29 22:59:00 -
[56]
Edited by: HarrytheBarstool on 29/05/2009 23:05:34
I find your lack of faith disturbing. Star Wars wins hands down ...
Sun Crusher
Centrepoint Station
World Devastators
Oh and i forgot the .. Galaxy Gun
*** were the sweeney son and we aint had any dinner *** |
Hanns
Amarr Secret Service
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Posted - 2009.05.29 23:36:00 -
[57]
At the end of the day the empire was defeated by a bunch of furry teddybears, what chance do they have against the imperium?
Originally by: Tuxford
a new retribution bonus +1 med slot per level
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Vikarion
Caldari
White Rose Society
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Posted - 2009.05.30 00:11:00 -
[58]
Originally by: HarrytheBarstool
Edited by: HarrytheBarstool on 29/05/2009 23:05:34
I find your lack of faith disturbing. Star Wars wins hands down ...
Sun Crusher
Centrepoint Station
World Devastators
Oh and i forgot the .. Galaxy Gun
You do realize that neither the construction nor use of those make any sense whatsoever when you figure in the canonical story? I mean, why build a large, clumsy, mobile battle station when you can simply achieve the same effect from anywhere in the universe? Or blow up their sun? I mean, really. I can't take the comics/the sun crusher seriously at all, at least in terms of internal consistency with the canon.
Also, lances are much, much more effective than the laser batteries on Star Destroyers, and they are almost considered secondary weapons for battleships. And a single strike can level a continent - forget an hour of bombardment, try 5 minutes. If that's not enough, 300-foot torpedoes that bypass shields are usually sufficient to end an enemy. Of course, some battleships forgo the torps...so that they can unload thousands of fighters on you, all of which carry thousands of pounds of ordnance.
Incidentally, WH40K void shields can take much more punishment than SW shields. And, unlike SW ships, after you burn through the shields, the hundred meters or so of armor is still waiting to absorb punishment.
In addition, all but the weakest psykers make Vader look like a child. Throwing lightning is passe...why not just summon a demon from the warp to devour the army of your enemy? Or make him explode? Or rip his mind apart from the inside?
In addition, there is no contest in numbers. Yes, the Empire may have thousands of Star Destroyers. Considering that a SD is inferior to a WH40K cruiser, that's not saying much. Considering that a WH40K battleship would likely destroy a SSD with one salvo of torpedoes and lances, and that there are thousands of them...yeah. The Empire wouldn't last a day.
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Alex Raptos
Caldari
Phoenix Rising.
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Posted - 2009.05.30 00:38:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: HarrytheBarstool
Edited by: HarrytheBarstool on 29/05/2009 23:05:34
I find your lack of faith disturbing. Star Wars wins hands down ...
Sun Crusher
Centrepoint Station
World Devastators
Oh and i forgot the .. Galaxy Gun
You do realize that neither the construction nor use of those make any sense whatsoever when you figure in the canonical story? I mean, why build a large, clumsy, mobile battle station when you can simply achieve the same effect from anywhere in the universe? Or blow up their sun? I mean, really. I can't take the comics/the sun crusher seriously at all, at least in terms of internal consistency with the canon.
Also, lances are much, much more effective than the laser batteries on Star Destroyers, and they are almost considered secondary weapons for battleships. And a single strike can level a continent - forget an hour of bombardment, try 5 minutes. If that's not enough, 300-foot torpedoes that bypass shields are usually sufficient to end an enemy. Of course, some battleships forgo the torps...so that they can unload thousands of fighters on you, all of which carry thousands of pounds of ordnance.
Incidentally, WH40K void shields can take much more punishment than SW shields. And, unlike SW ships, after you burn through the shields, the hundred meters or so of armor is still waiting to absorb punishment.
In addition, all but the weakest psykers make Vader look like a child. Throwing lightning is passe...why not just summon a demon from the warp to devour the army of your enemy? Or make him explode? Or rip his mind apart from the inside?
In addition, there is no contest in numbers. Yes, the Empire may have thousands of Star Destroyers. Considering that a SD is inferior to a WH40K cruiser, that's not saying much. Considering that a WH40K battleship would likely destroy a SSD with one salvo of torpedoes and lances, and that there are thousands of them...yeah. The Empire wouldn't last a day.
Who the frack cares about the Canonical story, This would be an all-out war, no holding back. Canonical story doesn't have crap to do with it if you are comparing the abilities of the two from a Lore perspective.
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
I've become gay for Mark Harmon despite my initial reservations about the show NCIS but nobody will ever know
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Jhagiti Tyran
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2009.05.30 02:01:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Alex Raptos
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: HarrytheBarstool
Edited by: HarrytheBarstool on 29/05/2009 23:05:34
I find your lack of faith disturbing. Star Wars wins hands down ...
Sun Crusher
Centrepoint Station
World Devastators
Oh and i forgot the .. Galaxy Gun
You do realize that neither the construction nor use of those make any sense whatsoever when you figure in the canonical story? I mean, why build a large, clumsy, mobile battle station when you can simply achieve the same effect from anywhere in the universe? Or blow up their sun? I mean, really. I can't take the comics/the sun crusher seriously at all, at least in terms of internal consistency with the canon.
Also, lances are much, much more effective than the laser batteries on Star Destroyers, and they are almost considered secondary weapons for battleships. And a single strike can level a continent - forget an hour of bombardment, try 5 minutes. If that's not enough, 300-foot torpedoes that bypass shields are usually sufficient to end an enemy. Of course, some battleships forgo the torps...so that they can unload thousands of fighters on you, all of which carry thousands of pounds of ordnance.
Incidentally, WH40K void shields can take much more punishment than SW shields. And, unlike SW ships, after you burn through the shields, the hundred meters or so of armor is still waiting to absorb punishment.
In addition, all but the weakest psykers make Vader look like a child. Throwing lightning is passe...why not just summon a demon from the warp to devour the army of your enemy? Or make him explode? Or rip his mind apart from the inside?
In addition, there is no contest in numbers. Yes, the Empire may have thousands of Star Destroyers. Considering that a SD is inferior to a WH40K cruiser, that's not saying much. Considering that a WH40K battleship would likely destroy a SSD with one salvo of torpedoes and lances, and that there are thousands of them...yeah. The Empire wouldn't last a day.
Who the frack cares about the Canonical story, This would be an all-out war, no holding back. Canonical story doesn't have crap to do with it if you are comparing the abilities of the two from a Lore perspective.
Of course it has to be Canonical or its just bull****, someone could go write a story about some stupid weapon the IoM has that could wipe out the whole of of the star wars galaxy with a push of a button.
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