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Vargur a cruel joke?

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Aelyptic	Posted - 2009.06.05 16:42:00 - [1] I was looking at the Vargur as a long term goal for PvE since i fly Minmatar ships and tried to put a few setups together with EFT just to pass the time, but I noticed something : Severe lack of powergrid. You cannot even fit 4x 1200mm scouts, much less t2, with all level 5 skills. Does anyone think this will ever be corrected or is it just a kick in the groin to someone hoping to fly career minmatar?
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.06.05 16:45:00 - [2] I hear it works fine with autos for PvE. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.05 16:46:00 - [3] Yes it got shafted on grid. Try autocannons with ambit rigs though.
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2009.06.05 16:49:00 - [4] Learn to fly noob!Obvious troll is obvious! 0/10 /Facepalm gobacktowow Just getting all that stuff out of the way. While the Vargur does have it's fitting issues there are a number of good setups for it. I don't have one for you but my a corpmate of mine flies it and loves it.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.06.05 16:49:00 - [5] what kind of fitting skills you got?
Visceroth Minmatar The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.06.05 16:53:00 - [6] You mean like this: [Vargur, Missions] Reactor Control Unit II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II X-Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II 100MN Afterburner II 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Phased Plasma L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Phased Plasma L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Phased Plasma L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Phased Plasma L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Ancillary Current Router I Capacitor Control Circuit I This is how I would fit the mael for PvE. But, the Mael gets 3 x gyros. Honestly for dmg, the maelstrom does it better. The advantage here is tractor beams.
Khornne Caldari Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.06.05 16:53:00 - [7] Edited by: Khornne on 05/06/2009 16:54:10 Originally by: Visceroth .. 4 Invuls? Are you high? [Vargur, PvE] Damage Control II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Projectile Ambit Extension I Projectile Ambit Extension I
Visceroth Minmatar The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.06.05 17:02:00 - [8] Originally by: Khornne Edited by: Khornne on 05/06/2009 16:54:10 Originally by: Visceroth .. 4 Invuls? Are you high? [Vargur, PvE] Damage Control II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Projectile Ambit Extension I Projectile Ambit Extension I lmao I knew I'd get this comment, but I was hoping the intelligence of the community had raised. Ofc not 4 invulns you substitute for mission specific. How are you going to get into range with 800's? especially the ships that orbit at 60 KM? 4 gyrostabs? why? you lose effectiveness with the 4th one. Better to put a DCU II.
Mr Reeth	Posted - 2009.06.05 17:02:00 - [9] 3 minutes on EFT... needs a cheap +3% grid implant. And don't say anything about expensive fittings... it's a billion isk ship, it should be faction at the least. :P Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Power Diagnostic System II Reactor Control Unit II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Republic Fleet 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Republic Fleet 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Republic Fleet 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Republic Fleet 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Republic Fleet Fusion L Semiconductor Memory Cell I Semiconductor Memory Cell I Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1
Aelyptic	Posted - 2009.06.05 17:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Yes it got shafted on grid. Try autocannons with ambit rigs though. Made another setup with AC's, MUCH better for the grid and a 60km falloff as well.
Myrkala Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous	Posted - 2009.06.05 17:21:00 - [11] TO AVOID BEING FLAMED, YOUR VARGUR FIT SHOULD ALWAYS INCLUDE: At least three Faction Gyrostabilizers. Four T2 AutoCannons (800mm). A 100mn afterburner. 2-3 tractorbeams. Two T2 Projectile Ambit Rigs. The rest is really just... flavor. The tank really doesn't matter as long as you have enough if you don't know whats enough you should practice with a t1 BS first to avoid the risk of loosing a 1 bil ship to inexperience. Prices of significance: 4x Gyros = 200 mil 2x T2 ambit rigs = 100 mil
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.05 17:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Myrkala TO AVOID BEING FLAMED, YOUR VARGUR FIT SHOULD ALWAYS INCLUDE: At least three Faction Gyrostabilizers. Four T2 AutoCannons (800mm). A 100mn afterburner. 2-3 tractorbeams. Two T2 Projectile Ambit Rigs. The rest is really just... flavor. The tank really doesn't matter as long as you have enough if you don't know whats enough you should practice with a t1 BS first to avoid the risk of loosing a 1 bil ship to inexperience. Prices of significance: 4x Gyros = 200 mil 2x T2 ambit rigs = 100 mil This is basically everything you need to know about a vargur.
Traderboz	Posted - 2009.06.05 18:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Originally by: Myrkala TO AVOID BEING FLAMED, YOUR VARGUR FIT SHOULD ALWAYS INCLUDE: At least three Faction Gyrostabilizers. Four T2 AutoCannons (800mm). A 100mn afterburner. 2-3 tractorbeams. Two T2 Projectile Ambit Rigs. The rest is really just... flavor. The tank really doesn't matter as long as you have enough if you don't know whats enough you should practice with a t1 BS first to avoid the risk of loosing a 1 bil ship to inexperience. Prices of significance: 4x Gyros = 200 mil 2x T2 ambit rigs = 100 mil This is basically everything you need to know about a vargur.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.06.05 20:08:00 - [14] Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 05/06/2009 20:08:56 Originally by: Visceroth How are you going to get into range with 800's? especially the ships that orbit at 60 KM? It has 60km falloff with T2 ambit rigs and Barrage L. Look at the bonuses.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.05 20:14:00 - [15] Originally by: Visceroth Originally by: Khornne Edited by: Khornne on 05/06/2009 16:54:10 4 Invuls? Are you high? [Vargur, PvE] Damage Control II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Projectile Ambit Extension I Projectile Ambit Extension I lmao I knew I'd get this comment, but I was hoping the intelligence of the community had raised. Ofc not 4 invulns you substitute for mission specific. How are you going to get into range with 800's? especially the ships that orbit at 60 KM? 4 gyrostabs? why? you lose effectiveness with the 4th one. Better to put a DCU II. It already has a dcu. A tracking enhancer might be worthwhile though.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.05 21:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Myrkala EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT A VARGUR. Amen.
Lunarmist	Posted - 2009.06.05 23:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Seriously Bored Originally by: Myrkala EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT A VARGUR. Amen. Well, here is the best fit: Hi: 3 Tractor beams 4 Salvagers mid: 1 mwd and then all cpr low: cargo expenders. There you go, best use for the ship. If you really want to do pve, get a maelstorm. Vargur is fail, DEV prenerfed it since they don't want people to use it for pvp. In return, we got a gimp.
Traderboz	Posted - 2009.06.05 23:11:00 - [18] Except not really. Vargur > Mael for a handful of reasons. It sounds like you aren't fitting your Vargur correctly, or you just haven't ever flown one and you're looking at EFT/forum talk to badmouth it.
Hotice	Posted - 2009.06.05 23:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Traderboz Except not really. Vargur > Mael for a handful of reasons. It sounds like you aren't fitting your Vargur correctly, or you just haven't ever flown one and you're looking at EFT/forum talk to badmouth it. Well, I can fly all 4 marauders and have all of them as well. vargur is just simply gimp right out of factory. Close range, torp golem is better, long range, nightmare is better, killing guristas, kronos is better. Based on the finish speed, maelstorm and vargur both perform about same. Vargur needs better PG and damage bonus.
Shigsy Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2009.06.05 23:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Hotice Originally by: Traderboz Except not really. Vargur > Mael for a handful of reasons. It sounds like you aren't fitting your Vargur correctly, or you just haven't ever flown one and you're looking at EFT/forum talk to badmouth it. Well, I can fly all 4 marauders and have all of them as well. vargur is just simply gimp right out of factory. Close range, torp golem is better, long range, nightmare is better, killing guristas, kronos is better. Based on the finish speed, maelstorm and vargur both perform about same. Vargur needs better PG and damage bonus. Im glad you're very knowledgable on your marauders...
demonfurbie Minmatar Covert-Nexus	Posted - 2009.06.06 00:09:00 - [21] i have no issue fitting 4 1200s and having 3 gyros and a kick ass tank just have to be creative
Jei'son Bladesmith The Storm Knights The Cool Kids Club	Posted - 2009.06.06 04:48:00 - [22] I fully support people's rights to put arty on a vargur. I will simply mock them shamelessly for doing so because they are wrong.
Ingenue	Posted - 2009.06.06 05:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Hotice Well, I can fly all 4 marauders and have all of them as well. vargur is just simply gimp right out of factory. Close range, torp golem is better, long range, nightmare is better, killing guristas, kronos is better. Based on the finish speed, maelstorm and vargur both perform about same. Vargur needs better PG and damage bonus. Inside 20km, the Vargur is second only to the Golem for damage, and not by much. That makes it fantastic at killing Angels, and considering that the Vargur is a PVE ship mostly flown in Minmatar space, you can't call "5% less damage than a Golem" gimp. From 20 to 30km, the Vargur still outdamages the Paladin, Nightmare, and Kronos against Angels. It may beat them at further ranges, but I can't back it up with math at the moment. That's also hardly gimp. I'll readily admit any other Marauder or Faction ship beats the Vargur at NPCs that attack outside 40km...but if you loot, what does that matter? While we're at it, with the same setup and three T2 Ambit rigs, the Maelstrom's damage curve is is only vaguely similar to the Vargur's. It loses damage much faster as the distance goes on. If you never salvage, you might not need to look further than a Maelstrom...but if you include salvage and looting in mission completion time, the Vargur is one of the best ships there is for Angel missions. (As an aside, because this arguably matters less for missions, but the Vargur can field a better tank than a Paladin or Kronos, and tanks as well as the Torp Golem and Nightmare. A Cruise Golem will outtank it, but the Vargur greatly outdamages a Cruise Golem to 40km) Yes, it's a narrow focus. But if you run missions regularly, you know how to exploit your narrow focus without slowing your isk/hour. Being able to fly a ship does not mean you know how to use it to the best of its ability.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.06 05:34:00 - [24] Originally by: Ingenue Yes, it's a narrow focus. But if you run missions regularly, you know how to exploit your narrow focus without slowing your isk/hour. Being able to fly a ship does not mean you know how to use it to the best of its ability. Accidentally posted the above with an alt. The Vargur is still a beast.
Prez21 coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.06.06 10:08:00 - [25] Originally by: Jei'son Bladesmith I fully support people's rights to put arty on a vargur. I will simply mock them shamelessly for doing so because they are wrong. Well its quite clear that you have no idea what your talking about then, the vargur does lack pg but it is still fairly easy to put together and arty fit for it, that does good dmg and tanks very well while being completely cap stable. Yes the varg can hit out to between 60-70km with 800s using barrage and rigs but remember that you lose alot of dps at these ranges, so when fighting npcs from a distance your performance will struggle. The varg can be an absolute beast if fit right for both pvp/pve and the people that say its worthless are just clueless and dont know how to fit a ship.
Comae Berenices Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.06.06 10:40:00 - [26] Originally by: Myrkala TO AVOID BEING FLAMED, YOUR VARGUR FIT SHOULD ALWAYS INCLUDE: At least three Faction Gyrostabilizers. Four T2 AutoCannons (800mm). A 100mn afterburner. 2-3 tractorbeams. Two T2 Projectile Ambit Rigs. The rest is really just... flavor. The tank really doesn't matter as long as you have enough if you don't know whats enough you should practice with a t1 BS first to avoid the risk of loosing a 1 bil ship to inexperience. Prices of significance: 4x Gyros = 200 mil 2x T2 ambit rigs = 100 mil QFT
Vherr Arkhar	Posted - 2009.06.06 11:02:00 - [27] The Vargur is among the best Mission Running Ships in Eve! Just dont do Artillery on it. Just... Don't. ;) You get an amazing Range on AC800's, it's capstable on 2 Pith-b-Small and 2 Invul and 2 Boost Amps get you all the tank you need. Omni. Don't even have to swap out Hardeners.
Khornne Caldari Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.06.06 11:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Hotice Originally by: Traderboz Except not really. Vargur > Mael for a handful of reasons. It sounds like you aren't fitting your Vargur correctly, or you just haven't ever flown one and you're looking at EFT/forum talk to badmouth it. Well, I can fly all 4 marauders and have all of them as well. vargur is just simply gimp right out of factory. Close range, torp golem is better, long range, nightmare is better, killing guristas, kronos is better. Based on the finish speed, maelstorm and vargur both perform about same. Vargur needs better PG and damage bonus. Yeah nice to see a new marauder introduced... The Nightmare! -- Khornne's Teamspeak Server Service
ArmyOfMe The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.06.06 11:59:00 - [29] Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 06/06/2009 11:59:14 the vargur is a ac boat and should be treated as such. it works perfectly fine with ambit rigs. sadly it isnt really on par with the other marauders, but thats mainly cause of the way falloff works.
Hotice	Posted - 2009.06.06 18:58:00 - [30] Originally by: Khornne Originally by: Hotice Originally by: Traderboz Except not really. Vargur > Mael for a handful of reasons. It sounds like you aren't fitting your Vargur correctly, or you just haven't ever flown one and you're looking at EFT/forum talk to badmouth it. Well, I can fly all 4 marauders and have all of them as well. vargur is just simply gimp right out of factory. Close range, torp golem is better, long range, nightmare is better, killing guristas, kronos is better. Based on the finish speed, maelstorm and vargur both perform about same. Vargur needs better PG and damage bonus. Yeah nice to see a new marauder introduced... The Nightmare! Well, Nightmare work pretty much just like a Paladin besides shield tanking and looks better. It cost about same as well, so I count it as marauder. I dislike the look of Apoc hull since I've used that hull for so long between apoc/navy apoc during pre marauder years. If one must only use minmatar ship for lvl 4s, then use vargur for close range and maelstorm for long range. Nothing wrong with that line up just I wish vargur got more pg so it can deal with all situations just like the other marauders. To be honest, Maelstorm with AC setup can do pretty much the same as Vargur. Yeah, it uses more ammo but not a big deal really.

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