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[Proposal] change to aggression timer - all in or all out

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Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.06.10 03:58:00 - [31] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 10/06/2009 04:11:05 Originally by: Rajere Words cannot express how terrible this suggestion is. Honestly it's like 20% whine and 70% fail. What's ironic is there are already tactics & solutions available in game which completely counter people attempting to play station docking games. Even if you're too inept to adapt and discover the solutions on your own, all you really need to do is pay attention and learn from players who are less terrible than you, and you'll be able to kill the people playing docking games rather than QQ about it on the forums. The truth is, station games exist because the majority of you are too chicken s#@t to leave the safety of station undocks yourselves, leaving the rest of us no choice but to engage you on stations if we want to get any kind of fight out of you at all. Then you have the audacity to call us "station campers", etc. Oddly enough, my standard reply to this "Planet 1 @ 0km, whenever you manage to find your balls" is never really accepted, but at least I have the option to kill them on station when they start playing docking games. To summarize my objections to this ridiculous thread: If you don't like station games, don't engage people on stations. Pretty simple tbh. Oh you mean its actually worse than this one? Whine Proposal Hypocritical if you ask me bub... Epic Fail. Oh and its relevant... particularly after your killed and podded at said station game. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= Dependable, Honorable, Intelligent, No-nonsense Vote Herschel Yamamoto for CSM!
Rajere No Trademark	Posted - 2009.06.10 04:24:00 - [32] Um yeah? Obviously. Hypocritical? hardly. not that I'd ever ask you anything You linked an awesome suggestion which unsurprisingly garnered no support. The suggestion in this thread is mind-numbingly terrible and again unsurprisingly has tons of support. I'm under the impression that you believe you have a point, and that you have somehow demonstrated it? lol, guess again. I'm also under the impression that you believe you/your thoughts/your posts are relevant to anyone, and that your opinions hold any value whatsoever? lol, guess again. The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.06.10 05:18:00 - [33] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 10/06/2009 05:21:12 Edited by: Drake Draconis on 10/06/2009 05:20:19 Originally by: Rajere Um yeah? Obviously. Hypocritical? hardly. not that I'd ever ask you anything You linked an awesome suggestion which unsurprisingly garnered no support. The suggestion in this thread is mind-numbingly terrible and again unsurprisingly has tons of support. I'm under the impression that you believe you have a point, and that you have somehow demonstrated it? lol, guess again. I'm also under the impression that you believe you/your thoughts/your posts are relevant to anyone, and that your opinions hold any value whatsoever? lol, guess again. This coming from someone who wants a "i win" button for avoiding getting podded and to insure that he can redock after agressing a target encouraging station games. Yeah... makes perfect sense. My point is... your obviously in favor of making it painful for people to deal with cowards. For you to call it a whine fest... is nothing short of a contradiction of enormous proportions. I'm just pointing it out to everyone else who may decide to respond... ^_^ This whole idea is not a whine fest... its an attempt to fix a (dare i say) exploit of a mechanic. People can freely undock...agress... and redock without penalty. In high sec is a plague.... in low-sec/0.0 it becomes a bit of a different issue from what I've researched... that being larger ships can tank it and eventually make there way back with little to no trouble. By forcing said individual to be locked out of redock for... say 2 to 5 minutes... would ensure a number of things. If your going to attack... your going all in or nuthin. If your going to peek and run... at least your not getting a cheap shot in. For you to call that an act of cowardice or a stupid idea.. means your obviously trying to play hello kitty... under the guise of "being brave" This is not a perfect fix either... but its a rather good temp fix. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= Dependable, Honorable, Intelligent, No-nonsense Vote Herschel Yamamoto for CSM!
Rajere No Trademark	Posted - 2009.06.10 07:14:00 - [34] Originally by: Rajere I'm also under the impression that you believe you/your thoughts/your posts are relevant to anyone, and that your opinions hold any value whatsoever? lol, guess again. Originally by: Irrelevant yet clueless Empire Carebear People can freely undock...agress... and redock without penalty. In high sec is a plague.... in low-sec/0.0 it becomes a bit of a different issue from what I've researched... that being larger ships can tank it and eventually make there way back with little to no trouble. Thanks for confirming your complete lack of experience with anything even resembling PVP. It's been quite obvious to me from your posts that you're some clueless empire newb who's never left highsec, thanks for illustrating precisely how clueless you actually are. Seriously, I appreciate you making a post confirming not only your woefully inadequate knowledge of all matters related to pvp/game mechanics/etc, but which also demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of the actual topic being discussed. I'm with you man, all those carriers in highsec playing their docking games really is a plague. Good thing it's highsec, thus there's not really any real PVP happening, otherwise it would totally be an exploit. You're research into what goes on in big scary places like Low Sec/0.0, places you've never actually been, seems to have paid off. It totally is a different issue in places where PVP (beyond suicide ganking) is allowed to occur, than in places like highsec where you live, where PVP isn't really allowed. The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR
Isaac Starstriker Amarr Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.06.10 07:19:00 - [35] Originally by: Rajere Originally by: Rajere I'm also under the impression that you believe you/your thoughts/your posts are relevant to anyone, and that your opinions hold any value whatsoever? lol, guess again. Originally by: Irrelevant yet clueless Empire Carebear People can freely undock...agress... and redock without penalty. In high sec is a plague.... in low-sec/0.0 it becomes a bit of a different issue from what I've researched... that being larger ships can tank it and eventually make there way back with little to no trouble. Thanks for confirming your complete lack of experience with anything even resembling PVP. It's been quite obvious to me from your posts that you're some clueless empire newb who's never left highsec, thanks for illustrating precisely how clueless you actually are. Seriously, I appreciate you making a post confirming not only your woefully inadequate knowledge of all matters related to pvp/game mechanics/etc, but which also demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of the actual topic being discussed. I'm with you man, all those carriers in highsec playing their docking games really is a plague. Good thing it's highsec, thus there's not really any real PVP happening, otherwise it would totally be an exploit. You're research into what goes on in big scary places like Low Sec/0.0, places you've never actually been, seems to have paid off. It totally is a different issue in places where PVP (beyond suicide ganking) is allowed to occur, than in places like highsec where you live, where PVP isn't really allowed. I love that every counter argument you make is: "You obviously have no experience with low-sec/null-sec, so stfu noob". As per someone who has lived in low-sec since starting this game, I can tell you the current mechanic of "I can shoot and then dock" is fairly lame. There should be more penalties for it. As it is, there are none. As for you Rajere, your just a troll at this point and we should really quit feeding you. Please go back to wherever you crawled out of and leave us alone. I also pity your corp members, you must be a pain to listen to. --Isaac
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.06.10 14:44:00 - [36] Originally by: Rajere I'm with you man, all those carriers in highsec playing their docking games really is a plague. Good thing it's highsec, thus there's not really any real PVP happening, otherwise it would totally be an exploit. You're research into what goes on in big scary places like Low Sec/0.0, places you've never actually been, seems to have paid off. It totally is a different issue in places where PVP (beyond suicide ganking) is allowed to occur, than in places like highsec where you live, where PVP isn't really allowed. Carriers are not permitted in high sec. How long have you been playing this game again? ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= Dependable, Honorable, Intelligent, No-nonsense Vote Herschel Yamamoto for CSM!
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.06.10 15:33:00 - [37] Seems like a complicated fix. Easy solution would be to fix aggression times to fit each ship class.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.06.10 15:39:00 - [38] Originally by: Dibsi Dei Seems like a complicated fix. Easy solution would be to fix aggression times to fit each ship class. Perhaps... but a 5 to 6 minute timer would pretty much cover it. A frigate that undocks and agresses has no business doing so unless he plans to win or die. It's easier that way.
Pian Shu Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.10 19:07:00 - [39] Originally by: Dibsi Dei Seems like a complicated fix. Easy solution would be to fix aggression times to fit each ship class. The problem with a long timer is that when the opposition is gone, you have to wait forever to dock. The goal here isn't to make you stay in space for a long time, it's to make sure that if you engage, you are truly engaged and have no get-out-of-jail-free card. And if you do get away via warp -- an escape I have no problem with -- then you are able to dock in short order instead of waiting forever. And, to be honest, as a software engineer myself I think the proposed solution is much cleaner and simpler. It applies to all pilots in the same manner rather than having several base numbers to use depending on what ship type the pilot is in. It is self-tweaking in the sense that there's no need to tune the number to ensure the desired result (that pilots who aggress can't just dock again with no consequences). And there are few nasty side-effects (the example given above about 3rd party interceptor coming in after the battle and holding the target might be considered a nasty side-effect).
Red Raider Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's	Posted - 2009.06.10 19:49:00 - [40] I like it! A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out.
Ninja Jones	Posted - 2009.06.10 23:35:00 - [41]
Rajere No Trademark	Posted - 2009.06.11 11:30:00 - [42] Edited by: Rajere on 11/06/2009 11:31:57 Originally by: Drake Draconis Carriers are not permitted in high sec. How long have you been playing this game again? Gee Really? Carriers, the only class of ship which actually pose any sort of problem/annoyance via docking games, the ship class specifically referenced in the OP, and ships that everyone in this thread (other than 'tards like yourself) are talking about, those ships can't go into High Sec??? omg really? Gosh man, it's a good thing I didn't predicate my entire argument that a game mechanic is unbalanced based on a ship that I've never even seen before cus I'm some empire carebear who's never left the safety of highsec and actually experienced anything even close to resembling the topic being discussed. How long have you been too slow to pick up on blatantly obvious sarcasm, which was used to complete OWN your carebear @ss? In fact it was used specifically to point out exactly how much of a total newb you actually are, lacking ANY experience at all with the subject you're pathetically attempting to argue over. Do you know what QED means? Do yourself a favor, look it up, then stop posting.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.06.11 14:27:00 - [43] Originally by: Rajere Edited by: Rajere on 11/06/2009 11:31:57 Originally by: Drake Draconis Carriers are not permitted in high sec. How long have you been playing this game again? Gee Really? Carriers, the only class of ship which actually pose any sort of problem/annoyance via docking games, the ship class specifically referenced in the OP, and ships that everyone in this thread (other than 'tards like yourself) are talking about, those ships can't go into High Sec??? omg really? Gosh man, it's a good thing I didn't predicate my entire argument that a game mechanic is unbalanced based on a ship that I've never even seen before cus I'm some empire carebear who's never left the safety of highsec and actually experienced anything even close to resembling the topic being discussed. How long have you been too slow to pick up on blatantly obvious sarcasm, which was used to complete OWN your carebear @ss? In fact it was used specifically to point out exactly how much of a total newb you actually are, lacking ANY experience at all with the subject you're pathetically attempting to argue over. Do you know what QED means? Do yourself a favor, look it up, then stop posting. Next time just say you didn't know any better... sarcasm is a poor excuse.
Molock Saronen	Posted - 2009.06.11 14:38:00 - [44]
Rajere No Trademark	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:29:00 - [45] Originally by: Rajere Do you know what QED means? Do yourself a favor, look it up, then stop posting. The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR
Phantom Slave JUDGE DREAD Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.12 02:42:00 - [46] I feel that the person should only be kept from docking if the person(s) that they've aggressed are shooting them. Keeping from being docked shouldn't be affected by other people. Example 1: Person A undocks in a BS, person B is outside the station in a BS. Person A and B both aggress. Now neither of them can dock until one of them is dead, unless they both de-aggress. Example 2: Same persons A and B above aggress each other. Person B's 5 buddies from next door jump in as soon as person A is aggressed. Person A kills person B while person B's friends are pounding on his BS. Person A should now be able to dock (with a 60 second timer) as long as he doesn't aggress any of Person B's friends. If I'm reading your proposal right, Example 1 is true, and Example 2 is false. Under your proposal, person A in example 2 would be unable to dock until he dies. Why would anybody ever fight outside a station if they are guaranteed to lose their ship to a trap? All a change like your proposal would do is completely stop people from fighting outside stations, because if the other guy has friends next door, you're going to die because you'll never be able to dock. If I've simply misunderstood your proposal then I apologize.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.06.12 18:33:00 - [47] I've proposed exactly this idea before; I agree with it just as much now as before. The key is that a ship that does not act in such a way as to flag itself can redock; this mechanic has no effect on that. But once a ship engages in the fight (thus flagging themselves), then they are stuck until such time as the escape by outfighting or outflying their opposition. -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Grann Thefauto Internal Anarchy	Posted - 2009.06.12 19:26:00 - [48] You do realize that this only makes blobs more powerful? If you can't do hit and runs anymore the blob is an instant win.
Harotak THE FINAL STAND Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.12 19:30:00 - [49] Originally by: Grann Thefauto You do realize that this only makes blobs more powerful? If you can't do hit and runs anymore the blob is an instant win. Exactly. Worst idea ever. If you can't get kills within 60 seconds you are doing it wrong anyway.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.06.12 21:40:00 - [50] Originally by: Harotak Originally by: Grann Thefauto You do realize that this only makes blobs more powerful? If you can't do hit and runs anymore the blob is an instant win. Exactly. Worst idea ever. If you can't get kills within 60 seconds you are doing it wrong anyway. Id rather die to an blob than to a petty hit and run station game crap. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= Dependable, Honorable, Intelligent, No-nonsense Vote Herschel Yamamoto for CSM!
Pian Shu Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.12 22:19:00 - [51] Edited by: Pian Shu on 12/06/2009 22:21:43 Originally by: Grann Thefauto You do realize that this only makes blobs more powerful? If you can't do hit and runs anymore the blob is an instant win. You are looking at this completely backwards. A blob will already have enough to kill you before the aggression timer runs out. The blob is already instant win. Unless you're calling a carrier undocking, killing a ship and redocking a "hit and run" attack. This is a boost to smaller fleets and solo pilots.
Rajere No Trademark	Posted - 2009.06.12 22:49:00 - [52] Edited by: Rajere on 12/06/2009 22:50:19 Oh wow look CCP removes my replies where I own the newb Drake Draconis. To reiterate, obvious sarcasm is obvious, and newbs who never leave highsec like Drake, have nothing to contribute to this discussion and should refrain from posting at all. Yeah this suggestion is a blatantly obvious boost to blobbing and nerf to anything else. "boost blobbing, waaaah waaah my blob traps fail because i'm terrible, ccp please make up for our lack of skill when blobbing smaller groups" The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.06.12 23:03:00 - [53] Originally by: Rajere Edited by: Rajere on 12/06/2009 22:50:19 Oh wow look CCP removes my replies where I own the newb Drake Draconis. To reiterate, obvious sarcasm is obvious, and newbs who never leave highsec like Drake, have nothing to contribute to this discussion and should refrain from posting at all. Yeah this suggestion is a blatantly obvious boost to blobbing and nerf to anything else. "boost blobbing, waaaah waaah my blob traps fail because i'm terrible, ccp please make up for our lack of skill when blobbing smaller groups" Please Rajere... give it a rest... you've very well likely been warned by CCP... pushing the issue is going to make it worse.
Isaac Starstriker Amarr Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.06.13 05:49:00 - [54] Good lord Rajere, enough is enough. CCP will ban you. As per Blob argument, I don't believe this will enhance all that much considering that Blobbing right now does it anyway. --Isaac
Izo Alabaster Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company	Posted - 2009.06.13 07:59:00 - [55]
Harotak THE FINAL STAND Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.13 12:53:00 - [56] Edited by: Harotak on 13/06/2009 12:53:58 It may not be that big of a boost to a blob but its death to a solo player. If I'm playing in my BS solo, I engage another BS, and he ends up having a neutral guardian or something to assist him, I will die. This would be a boost to people that bring backup and a nerf to the few remaining people that like to fight alone. Capitals playing undock-dock in low-sec IS a problem, but you can make a change to the capital ships only and not ruin the game for the rest of us.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.06.13 14:39:00 - [57] Originally by: Harotak Edited by: Harotak on 13/06/2009 12:53:58 It may not be that big of a boost to a blob but its death to a solo player. If I'm playing in my BS solo, I engage another BS, and he ends up having a neutral guardian or something to assist him, I will die. This would be a boost to people that bring backup and a nerf to the few remaining people that like to fight alone. Capitals playing undock-dock in low-sec IS a problem, but you can make a change to the capital ships only and not ruin the game for the rest of us. Then don't engage the enemy battleship. the point is not that your losing your re-dock... the point is... if you open fire... your going to be expected to finish the fight. Period. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= Dependable, Honorable, Intelligent, No-nonsense Vote Herschel Yamamoto for CSM!
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.06.13 14:53:00 - [58] I take it OP is one of Drakes alts. In any case, i cant support the issue on account of the incitement to blob. However valued i might find the idea in principle. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.06.13 15:14:00 - [59] Originally by: RedSplat I take it OP is one of Drakes alts. In any case, i cant support the issue on account of the incitement to blob. However valued i might find the idea in principle. Now should I take that as a compliment or as an insult? Can't figure out. I never post in assembly hall with an alt... in fact I'm against such things. People who post here with alts should be banned from doing so in the first place... but that's just me. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= Dependable, Honorable, Intelligent, No-nonsense Vote Herschel Yamamoto for CSM!
Harotak THE FINAL STAND Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.13 16:03:00 - [60] Edited by: Harotak on 13/06/2009 16:05:43 Originally by: Drake Draconis Then don't engage the enemy battleship. the point is not that your losing your re-dock... the point is... if you open fire... your going to be expected to finish the fight. Period. Why should the person that is getting ganked be expected to "finish the fight" when the person he started fighting isn't the only person in the fight anymore? The only way I would accept being expected to finish the fight is if the other guy has to finish the fight AS IT BEGAN and not call in additional help. If I could slug it out with another battleship and no one could interfere or leave the fight before its over, I would be all for it, but what you propose would simply make it so that the player that fights alone is far more vulnerable to the player that always brings backup. This change is a boost to the blob because with a 60 second timer it is possible to check local and engage with confidence that if its a trap you have at least some chance of getting out alive. If the ability to dock is removed then the gankers can bring their blob in from even a couple jumps out and you can't do anything but sit there and wait to die.

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