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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.06.10 03:58:00 -
[1]
Today, 06.10, Caldari Prime was liberated. One year has passed since that day.
One year ago today, a debt more than 191 years old was repaid.
 Originally by: CEP response to Federation demands for unconditional surrender after initial bombardment of Caldari Prime. CE 23155.1.18
Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest.
Caldari Prime was liberated from foreign occupation and the planet of our ancestors was once again ours. We should remember both our past and future on this day. It is important that future generations of Caldari be connected to their ancestors and the world on which they survived.
Today, we celebrate the liberation of Caldari Prime.
But today is not only a day for celebration.
It is a day of mourning.
We mourn the loss of life, Caldari, Achura, Intaki, Jin-Mei, and even Gallente that were lost that day and since. We understand that wars and violence are sometimes necessary to resolve conflict and that each true citizen will perform what they believe their duty to be. We remember that even our enemy is performing what they believe is their duty and for that we owe them our respect in life and death.
On this day, I do not ask that you support the efforts of State to pacify the Caldari homeworld, but instead to pray for the departed spirits of all those that have done their duty through the past year and paid for it with their being.
Originally by: Prayer note placed at the Gallente-Caldari War Memorial, Caldari Prime 111.06.10, by an old man for his son.
May you all rest in peace, having done your duty.
In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net |
Logan Xerxes
Xerxes Security
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Posted - 2009.06.10 04:19:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Prayer note placed at the Gallente-Caldari War Memorial, Caldari Prime 111.06.10, by Logan Xerxes.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
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Van Cleef
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2009.06.10 05:00:00 -
[3]
All Caldari should understand the significance of the return of our racial homeworld to the State. It is the place of our birth, the place of our growth, and for many of our people the place of their death. Caldari Prime represents the ability of our people to be reborn, to overcome the worst of circumstances and to be able to thrive when defeat seemed promised.
However, while I encourage every citizen to understand their past, in the present there is still a milita pod pilot based war going on for the survival of the State. Whether our enemies come from Gallente space, or their Minimatar allies is not relevant. Nostalgic mementos of the past are important to understand where you came from, but pressing current issues are more of a concern.
Now is not the time of reflection or intraspection of days gone by, citizens should look to preserving the State's ideals and responsibilites, especially in the light of the current leaderships ignorance of our societal cultural norms and morals. While we have people dying on the battlefield, we should not have our heads turned behind us, but ahead, where our true destiny lays. |
Hooch Flux
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.10 08:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Prayer note placed at the Gallente-Caldari War Memorial, Caldari Prime 111.06.10, by an old man for his son.
May you all rest in peace, having done your duty.
Indeed! |
William Ytiri
YTiRi Retail
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Posted - 2009.06.10 08:36:00 -
[5]
May the children of all races carry the burden of our choices with proud and honour as we have carried those of our forefathers.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.10 10:20:00 -
[6]
I'm sorry, but I can't fully acknowledge this day while the Caldari militia keeps "liberating" Gallentean and Intaki systems, and while Tibus Heth is in control. A war of conquest masked by more noble intentions.
But I will of course pray for the spirits of the fallen, as I always do.
___
Latest video:
War Has Come (720p) |
Nicole Eisenfaust
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.06.10 10:37:00 -
[7]
I'm sure no one's going to lose any sleep over that Sakoda-guri, today concerns Caldari and Gallente. You are not Caldari anymore.
If attacks on the State and your alignment with those that seek to destroy the State isn't enough of a case in itself, you were good enough to tell us and end any confusion.
So why the holier than thou attitude about a day of mourning for people you have said yourself are your enemies?
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Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.10 10:44:00 -
[8]
How was it occupation beforehand? Have you lived there? I certainly have, stationed as a civil guard for a year and a half. It wasn't occupation, because life was normal, all was well and it was peaceful.
Now it's occupation, because the planet's a mess and has a provisional government. It's not even run by any Caldari megacorps, only that MTAC operator you have for a leader.
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Simon Coal
Gallente
The Grass Spiders
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Posted - 2009.06.10 11:35:00 -
[9]
Mourn for the fallen, those men who have lost their lives serving their country.
Mourn full well for those souls, pray for their families now.
There should have been another way. I'm sorry you had to die for our foolishness.
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Hooch Flux
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.10 11:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores
How was it occupation beforehand? Have you lived there? I certainly have, stationed as a civil guard for a year and a half. It wasn't occupation, because life was normal, all was well and it was peaceful.
Now it's occupation, because the planet's a mess and has a provisional government. It's not even run by any Caldari megacorps, only that MTAC operator you have for a leader.
Do you mean the way it was normal before the Federation invaded?
Originally by: Simon Coal
Mourn for the fallen, those men who have lost their lives serving their country.
Mourn full well for those souls, pray for their families now.
There should have been another way. I'm sorry you had to die for our foolishness.
Thank you Mr. Coal. |
Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:00:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores
How was it occupation beforehand? Have you lived there? I certainly have, stationed as a civil guard for a year and a half. It wasn't occupation, because life was normal, all was well and it was peaceful.
Now it's occupation, because the planet's a mess and has a provisional government.
Is life normal for the Jin-Mei as the Gallente majority continues to destroy your culture, slowly tearing down the institutions and traditions that make your people who they are?
Is life normal when the graves of ancestors can not be visited because one is considered a criminal by the controlling government?
Within a generation, life will be "normal" on Caldari Prime.
Or rather life hasn't been normal on Caldari Prime for over 191 years.
Quote:
It's not even run by any Caldari megacorps, only that MTAC operator you have for a leader.
It is run by the megacorporations, KK is a megacorp and Tibus Heth is their CEO. The CEP and Navy took part and have plenty of input into what is going on planetside. Home Guard, LD Protection Services, and Wiyrkomi Peace Corps are providing additional manpower above those needed to protect their corporations' assets. Other corporations are providing security for the assets they control.
As for the credentials of Tibus Heth (who is not our only leader, there are 7 other major leaders and various minor), I would point out that the Federation's leader is a failed scientist. Tibus Heth may have been a "lowly" MTAC operator, but surely a Federal supporter understands the opportunity to ride the wave of popular support to the top of one's government; isn't that how all your leaders get into power?
In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net |
Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.10 15:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dex Nederland
Is life normal for the Jin-Mei as the Gallente majority continues to destroy your culture, slowly tearing down the institutions and traditions that make your people who they are?
Is life normal when the graves of ancestors can not be visited because one is considered a criminal by the controlling government?
Within a generation, life will be "normal" on Caldari Prime.
Or rather life hasn't been normal on Caldari Prime for over 191 years.
Mostly, the Jin-Mei are content yes. The only secessionist moaners are some of the Intaki.
Caldari Prime was fine before you landed ships on it. It was still your homeworld. Now you just messed it up. Insurgency and violence...
Even with the Federation flag above it, it was still your homeworld, so not sure what the big deal is. And you could argue that all essence of Caldari culture was eroded, so then, why is that rock important?
Quote:
It is run by the megacorporations, KK is a megacorp and Tibus Heth is their CEO. The CEP and Navy took part and have plenty of input into what is going on planetside. Home Guard, LD Protection Services, and Wiyrkomi Peace Corps are providing additional manpower above those needed to protect their corporations' assets. Other corporations are providing security for the assets they control.
Ah, yes, this is true. If things were different and the Caldari got the planet in a different way, I'd put my ISK on the Federation helping with running things. You know how they're like.
Quote:
As for the credentials of Tibus Heth (who is not our only leader, there are 7 other major leaders and various minor), I would point out that the Federation's leader is a failed scientist. Tibus Heth may have been a "lowly" MTAC operator, but surely a Federal supporter understands the opportunity to ride the wave of popular support to the top of one's government; isn't that how all your leaders get into power?
A lot of non-Gallente citizens fail to realize what make us different from the Caldari. The Federation is its people, not the government. Just because people may support the Federation does not mean they support the government. I, personally, do not along with the rest of the hawk bloc.
The idea is that our politicians have some experience in leadership, mostly district parliament representatives, senators or planetary governors...that kinda thing. Heth doesn't have many credentials...
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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.06.10 15:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores
Ah, yes, this is true. If things were different and the Caldari got the planet in a different way, I'd put my ISK on the Federation helping with running things. You know how they're like.
We don't want the Federation's help. We want the Gallente and the Federation to mind their own business and stop telling everyone else what to do.
Originally by: Seriphyn Inhonores
The idea is that our politicians have some experience in leadership, mostly district parliament representatives, senators or planetary governors...that kinda thing. Heth doesn't have many credentials...
So you are saying that you prefer to have career politicians who have little to no experience with the day to day life of the average citizen lead your state?
You would prefer that the State have continued the failed policy of nepotism for executive selection, instead of returning to merit-based advancement?
For decades the Federation has supported attempts by populist, revolutionary, working class Caldari to "rebel" against the State's executives and corporate structure. When one of them finally succeeds, the Federation is terrified because it wasn't their man who succeeded.
In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net |
Tomo Yamaoka
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2009.06.10 15:46:00 -
[14]
My dear brother, it is with respect that I must request that the debate cease here, as it is not the place. I have no love for the Caldari, but I do honor their right to grieve the losses they have sustained, and the right to celebrate the victories they have achieved, I can only hope they will reciprocate in turn...save your energy to debate this another day, and perhaps with weapons instead of words.
On a lighter note, we were once allies and I would still consider us cousins of a sort Caldari, and my own heart is heavy at the lives lost and families torn apart by this war. I pray your fallen find their lights and their way home.
Agent Provocateur of the FIO
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Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.10 21:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tomo Yamaoka
My dear brother, it is with respect that I must request that the debate cease here, as it is not the place. I have no love for the Caldari, but I do honor their right to grieve the losses they have sustained, and the right to celebrate the victories they have achieved, I can only hope they will reciprocate in turn...save your energy to debate this another day, and perhaps with weapons instead of words.
On a lighter note, we were once allies and I would still consider us cousins of a sort Caldari, and my own heart is heavy at the lives lost and families torn apart by this war. I pray your fallen find their lights and their way home.
Very well mFimFi. I lost a considerable chunk of my paternal family in the invasion or 'liberation' or whatever you want to call it. Deteis, if blood matters, who were not considered expats because they've been around since the beginning. Luckily not my immediate family, but all the same. I will not take revenge for it, because that puts me at the same level as the Caldari.
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Rayth Phaenor
Caldari
Aurelius Federation
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Posted - 2009.06.10 23:00:00 -
[16]
Let us all strive forward, and not let the sacrifices of that day not go in vain.
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Hamish Grayson
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2009.06.10 23:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: "Prayer note placed at the Gallente-Caldari War Memorial, Caldari Prime 111.06.10, by Hamish Grayson"
Never again.
============================================
It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
Jiseinoku
Black Chapter
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Posted - 2009.06.10 23:40:00 -
[18]
The sacrifice of the past moulds the tradition of the future and gives nourishment to the ideals of the present.
For many of us the liberation of Caldari Prime represented the reclaiming of not just our physical homeworld, the womb from whose our forefathers shaped our unique destiny - but the liberation was also the symbolic triumph of the principle that every culture have the right to preserve itself according to its own inherent traditions and through self-determination.
That right the Federation tried to revoke.
Today I thus salute those that sacrificed themselves so the ideals of past may bear witness to the present.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.11 05:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nicole Eisenfaust
I'm sure no one's going to lose any sleep over that Sakoda-guri, today concerns Caldari and Gallente. You are not Caldari anymore.
Excuse me, but I'm very much Caldari. It says so to the left of my message here. It says so in my employment history. Even my appearances and speaking patterns say so. I bent over backwards for Ishukone Corporation for 25 years. Don't you ever dare say I'm not Caldari again.
If you would use that wonderful tool we all have called a brain, you would know the difference between diplomatic standings and political purpose. I'm an enemy of the State as it exists today, but I'm not out to destroy it.
Originally by: Nicole Eisenfaust
So why the holier than thou attitude about a day of mourning for people you have said yourself are your enemies?
It's a day of mourning on two levels. And the Patriot faction, primarily, is trying to keep it at its most basic for political reasons. I didn't say I was better than you, I said recognized the real issue and am protesting. |
Nicole Eisenfaust
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.06.11 08:24:00 -
[20]
Why don't you get off the damned fence and commit - are you a Gurista or not? a loyal Caldari that had your will overborne by pirates? I really don't get it, you'll be six of one and half-dozen of the other depending on how bad your conscience is acting up that day?
I'll say you aren't Caldari as long as it's the truth. I don't care who you worked for. I don't care how often you chip into Caldari debates with your cheap glib one liners and couplets.
Let me help you out here: I'm protesting people like you, like that tanuki Silver Night, and I'm protesting because I kinda think you've no business giving a commentary on what you believe we're doing wrong as if your still one of us. As if you even have a damned vote. You made the descision to leave the State, so why don't you stay gone?
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Soratah
Amarr
The Aegis Militia
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2009.06.11 08:48:00 -
[21]
Holy Amarr will like to join in the celebrations for Caldari citizen's success in liberating their own homeworld from the clutches of insidious Federation.
I do admire the furvor of our Nationalist brothers though, it shines akin to the religious furvour of our holy Paladins |
Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.11 10:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nicole Eisenfaust
I'll say you aren't Caldari as long as it's the truth. I don't care who you worked for. I don't care how often you chip into Caldari debates with your cheap glib one liners and couplets.
Even most of the Patriots here would attest to my heritage, and in fact graciously allowed me to take part in discussion. I have participated in discussions such as this and these. I have written essays in support of the Caldari people. I even share a scary amount of Tibus Heth's populist ideals. Unfortunately I don't much care for his condemnation of Gallentean race and society as core to Caldari troubles. That hatred is entirely misplaced. Just as yours is.
The reason I don't write essays anymore is because no one listens to them. They never have taken time to consider it, not even when I was an upright State citizen. I'm a cynic and a realist Ms. Eisenfaust, and so it seems to me a waste of energy.
Originally by: Nicole Eisenfaust
As if you even have a damned vote.
As if you have a damned vote, either. These discussions are mostly semantics.
___
Latest video:
War Has Come (720p) |
William Ytiri
YTiRi Retail
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Posted - 2009.06.11 10:57:00 -
[23]
The disassociated don't loose their citizenship, merely the corporate benefits of their heritage and of course the way we listen and interact with them.
Sakoda's often wise words addressed to other citizens of the state and this summit can therefore not be ignored, however you certainly should interpret them in a context that fits her position though. That of being an illegal greedy Guristas pirate instead of a legitimate greedy Caldari businesswoman.
I heard it takes a Caldari to notice the difference.
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Tomo Yamaoka
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2009.06.11 11:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda
Even most of the Patriots here would attest to my heritage, and in fact graciously allowed me to take part in discussion. I have participated in discussions such as this and these. I have written essays in support of the Caldari people. I even share a scary amount of Tibus Heth's populist ideals. Unfortunately I don't much care for his condemnation of Gallentean race and society as core to Caldari troubles. That hatred is entirely misplaced. Just as yours is.
The reason I don't write essays anymore is because no one listens to them. They never have taken time to consider it, not even when I was an upright State citizen. I'm a cynic and a realist Ms. Eisenfaust, and so it seems to me a waste of energy.
Originally by: Nicole Eisenfaust
As if you even have a damned vote.
As if you have a damned vote, either. These discussions are mostly semantics.
And that is why I respect you and read your essays, people tend to lose sight of the fact that you can go to war with or be on opposing legal sides of a person, but the moment you stop respecting them you not only lose that fight, but you fail to learn the lessons gained through opposition. |
Nicole Eisenfaust
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.06.11 13:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda
That hatred is entirely misplaced. Just as yours is.
For my part, it's not hatred. Just irritation and anger at the ever present criminal contingent martyring themselves as oh so reasonable and misunderstood. Even a little digging shows the kind of crime you'll commit out of hatred.
I think you were walking this same path a long time before Tibus Heth reared his head.
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Che Biko
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
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Posted - 2009.06.11 13:39:00 -
[26]
I will pray.
I just wish things went my way.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.11 13:41:00 -
[27]
And how many ships do you destroy every day, Ms. Eisenfaust? If you speak to an agent even seldomly, you've got blood on your hands. Sounds to me like you're doing the exact thing you accuse me of: trying to make a halo for yourself out of ashes and blood.
It doesn't matter who I kill, or who you kill. The practice is only made legitimate by respected allegiance.
I ask for a little reasoned debate, speak my mind because I think it reasonable, and you automatically take me for a martyr?
It's pretty clear you're the fool.
___
Latest video:
War Has Come (720p) |
Nicole Eisenfaust
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.06.11 14:09:00 -
[28]
What I'm pointing out, Sakoda-guri, is that you have a history of directly attacking the State. One such attack is a documented strike against Ishukone Watch personnel, apparently for no other reason than the sake of a grudge and to disrupt a merger.
As for your knee jerk but you kill people too arguemnt - Yes. I do speak to agents, I do commit to action against factions that threaten the State and I do so under contract from the Caldari Navy.
I have never attacked State interests or fired on loyal Caldari, and while I can understand how someone in your position would love to believe it doesn't matter who you decide to kill, I don't share your world view.
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Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.06.11 15:02:00 -
[29]
Sakoda (-guri, what I am about to ask will decide whether the term applies)
Do you accept that you represent Caldari and thus have an impact (positive or negative is subjective) on the reputation and credibility of the Caldari race presently?
The first discussion linked by Eisenfaust-haan was to this very issue.
In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net |
William Ytiri
YTiRi Retail
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Posted - 2009.06.11 17:09:00 -
[30]
I find the attention you two give to Sakoda disturbing when I consider her relevance to the state or our corporations in particular.
Let her speak her mind about the state, it does no harm, as her disassociate words do not bear official corporate weight and are sometimes highly amusing.
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