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Why does everyone worship the Rifter?

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BwanaKuu	Posted - 2009.06.10 04:03:00 - [1] So, it is the best T1 frig. But so what? The only thing I've found it useful for was tackling. That's it. Solo PvP has been awful in this so far. I'm using the standard setup 3xautocannon, 1xrocket, 1xweb, 1xscrambler, 1xab, 1x200mm plate, 1xarmor rep, 1xdamage control. Every time I've used this it gets pwned quite quickly. Orbit at 500mm, put the AB on, rep when needed. Gets destroyed every single time. What am I doing wrong? Don't tell me pick better targets, I'm using it against other frigs and cruisers. Hell, even a Caracal completely shut me down and I thought those were one of the easiest ships to kill! I'm starting to think the Rifter is worthless and just head right to the Rupture (using the "gank" fit from Battleclinic). Am I missing something?
Jones Bones Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.06.10 04:04:00 - [2] l2fly =================== Go Bucks!
Cavazos Caldari Xeno Tech Corp MACHI MISCHIEF	Posted - 2009.06.10 04:06:00 - [3] well if it doesnt work for you then go to rupture or stabber. it works for us idk what to tell ya bud. i actually use a rifter/punisher/incursus/ and sometimes a kestrel but rarely. all good ships you just gotta learn to pick targets and know how to manage the ship
BwanaKuu	Posted - 2009.06.10 04:11:00 - [4] Originally by: Jones Bones l2fly What am I missing? Warp in, scramble them and web them, orbit at 500m, start guns (AB and DC already on). Rep when you start getting into armor, cycle it so you don't run out of cap. What else is there to it?
Johnny Darkseid Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.06.10 04:16:00 - [5] Originally by: BwanaKuu Originally by: Jones Bones l2fly What am I missing? Moar rifters. Bring some friends next time and see how much better it is.
BwanaKuu	Posted - 2009.06.10 04:17:00 - [6] Originally by: Johnny Darkseid Originally by: BwanaKuu Originally by: Jones Bones l2fly What am I missing? Moar rifters. Bring some friends next time and see how much better it is. We do... And just get killed (not this char, this one is an alt). Bring punishers, rifters, and cruisers. All fit well.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.06.10 04:29:00 - [7] Originally by: BwanaKuu So, it is the best T1 frig. But so what? The only thing I've found it useful for was tackling. That's it. Solo PvP has been awful in this so far. I'm using the standard setup 3xautocannon, 1xrocket, 1xweb, 1xscrambler, 1xab, 1x200mm plate, 1xarmor rep, 1xdamage control. Every time I've used this it gets pwned quite quickly. Orbit at 500mm, put the AB on, rep when needed. Gets destroyed every single time. What am I doing wrong? Don't tell me pick better targets, I'm using it against other frigs and cruisers. Hell, even a Caracal completely shut me down and I thought those were one of the easiest ships to kill! I'm starting to think the Rifter is worthless and just head right to the Rupture (using the "gank" fit from Battleclinic). Am I missing something? Higher support skills will help. Also you still have to choose your targets. A competently fit light assault missile Caracal will swat a Rifter easily. The reason the Caracal has a reputation as an easy ship to kill is because it has a limited tank and is a favorite of newbs who have no fitting or missile skills.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2009.06.10 04:46:00 - [8] Chose targets, don't mindlessly go into 500m orbit (some active flying and/or fighting at range is actually better at times). Learn to counter your opponent.
Vyllana	Posted - 2009.06.10 05:17:00 - [9] It's the best (or at least one of the best) T1 frigs, but it's still a T1 frig. You can kill other T1 frig pilots, as well as cruisers when they are fitted for PvE or piloted not so well. I mean, I've killed several caracals in a rifter, but you put even the most skilled rifter pilot against a competent Caracal pilot that has assault launchers fitted and the rifter wouldn't stand a chance. Can occasionally take out certain T2 frigs as well, and that's about it. Don't expect it to be an amazing solo boat that can take out a very wide range of targets. People like the rifter because it's probably the most effective ship to learn PvP in while not losing any appreciable amount of money, not because it is the most amazing thing you can be flying.
Jesslyn Daggererux Gallente Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.06.10 06:22:00 - [10] because it looks like a podracer

Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.10 06:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux because it looks like a podracer OH NO YOU DIDNT -
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.06.10 06:46:00 - [12] Originally by: BwanaKuu What else is there to it? Not a lot, but the Rifter is about the only tech 1 frigate that can do that against cruisers, ceptors and AFs and stand a chance of winning... all fully insurable. The Rifter's one of the hardest hitting tech 1 frigs but it can fit a nice tank for its size and is pretty maneuverable and nippy. It can change damage types and has enough slots to do everything you want. --
Bakatu Kat Minmatar Kat Family	Posted - 2009.06.10 06:47:00 - [13] 1. low cost 2. low skill req's 3. good slot layout 4. good bonuses any more questions? and ... l2fly ;) "[Being Minmatar is] like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi" -- Axitikus
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.06.10 06:51:00 - [14] When the Rifter only had 2 mids and 2 lows it was good. Now, its just about the picture of frigate perfection. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
SuperNova221	Posted - 2009.06.10 07:41:00 - [15] Originally by: BwanaKuu Orbit at 500mm Get T2 small AC's. Get Barrage. Orbit at 5 or 7.5km. ??? Win. With barrage range really is your main advantage, hitting 10km out should be easy enough, but yuo won't get a lot of your DPS in, I've found about 5km is perfect, just out of the range of blasters, small lasers on frigs (T1) suck so it wouldn't matter if you were or weren't, just because it's hailed as winsauce DOESN'T mean that it's an i-win button, you need to put effort and tactics into it. Don't use the "I'm doing an L2 in a frig" tactic of just orbitting at 500m and shooting.
Stygian Knight Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.10 07:43:00 - [16] Because you can kill all frigate class ships (or at least stand a good chance) You can solo all other t1 frigs all stealth bombers all interceptors --- you can put some solid damage on most of cruisers assault frigs -- you can have pretty nice armor tank and still go over 2.5km/s -- you can tackle pretty fast - 0.0 pod killing -- you get tracking bonus ! -- favorite ship to harass miners -- it cost only 3-5 mil for good equipment and a lot of fun. -- many more other reasons
Dracoknight The Directorate	Posted - 2009.06.10 07:51:00 - [17] For the first thing: Caracal is a Rifter killer, true story ____________________ I wish my Thorax could use missiles...
olzi Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.06.10 08:43:00 - [18] Rifter is a great frigate, but I wouldn't unanimously call it the best t1 frigate. It can be the best in certain situations, but alot of it has to do with the tactics and skillset of the opposing pilot. Here's a pretty standard rifter fit: Quote: [Rifter, New Setup 1] Damage Control II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Small Armor Repairer II Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I 200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II Rocket Launcher II With rf emp and navy rockets, it does 114 dps, 3.7k ehp and 12/31 dps tank with all level 5. Here's a ab merlin fit similar to what I fly in fw: Quote: [Merlin, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Medium Shield Extender II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Light Ion Blaster II Light Ion Blaster II Rocket Launcher II Rocket Launcher II With navy ammo it does 103 dps and thanks to the micro aux and the oversized extender, it has 5.7k ehp and a 21 dps sustained passive tank. So while the rifter has a 11 dps advantage, that 2k buffer and passive tank over the rifter means that if you let the merlin get within 500m of you, it will have the upper hand. With rifters speed advantage it is possible to establish that 5-10km orbit, but atleast from my personal experience that doesn't work out very often once I have him at 500m. Just a little nudge for the often forgotten Merlin, Rifter isn't the only possibility.
Ash Bringer	Posted - 2009.06.10 09:03:00 - [19] Originally by: BwanaKuu What am I doing wrong? Don't tell me pick better targets, I'm using it against other frigs and cruisers. Hell, even a Caracal completely shut me down and I thought those were one of the easiest ships to kill! Problem if a caracal web+scram you its not a PvE caracal.. Means you awfully took a wrong target to engage... Rifter is not a uber craft but a handy one. Yes you can kill caracal but if its piloted with a relatively younger character.. Remember a well fitted caracal will rip AFs down pretty easily. Btw even that handy rifter is full of t2 ****.. T2 modules doesn't only mean more dps but also more tracking,more HP,more speed etc etc and probably minmatar frig lvl5 and others. So get a little bit more skillpoint and in the mean time try to engage droneless ships. And always choose your enemies who are not willing to engage you :) If they don't have scram you can always warp away at the end. And if they do have a scram RUN ... As probably they are sitting there waiting for you to engage...
HankMurphy Minmatar XERCORE Cult of War	Posted - 2009.06.10 09:23:00 - [20] Originally by: BwanaKuu I'm starting to think the Rifter is worthless and just head right to the Rupture (using the "gank" fit from Battleclinic). Am I missing something? missing something? missing everything!!!1

waruiushiro	Posted - 2009.06.10 16:58:00 - [21] Your problem is probably just skillpoints and if so then also no thermodynamics? Especially with 1v1 frig fights, overheating is often where a battle is won or lost. Oh and if you're canflipping outside highsec stations, then you just might be fighting 100mil frig setups from diks who specialize in that stuff. If you're a high SP player who can't win fights in a Rifter, then yeah l2fly etc etc. And there's more than one way to fit a Rifter... though it should always be with tech2 mods. You could try: DCU II micro aux power core 400mm RR plate 1 MN AB II J5b scram X5 web 150mm autocannon II with rep fleet EMP small neut The quick capping out of other frigs is a big advantage. Kills some tech2 frigs as well, especially those with cap dependent guns that aren't an Ishkur.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2009.06.10 17:13:00 - [22] Originally by: BwanaKuu So, it is the best T1 frig. But so what? The only thing I've found it useful for was tackling. That's it. Solo PvP has been awful in this so far. I'm using the standard setup 3xautocannon, 1xrocket, 1xweb, 1xscrambler, 1xab, 1x200mm plate, 1xarmor rep, 1xdamage control. Every time I've used this it gets pwned quite quickly. Orbit at 500mm, put the AB on, rep when needed. Gets destroyed every single time. What am I doing wrong? Don't tell me pick better targets, I'm using it against other frigs and cruisers. Hell, even a Caracal completely shut me down and I thought those were one of the easiest ships to kill! I'm starting to think the Rifter is worthless and just head right to the Rupture (using the "gank" fit from Battleclinic). Am I missing something? There are any number of things you could be doing wrong. First and foremost, the Rifter isn't prized for it's sheer firepower, or durability or speed as in each area you'll find one or more ships that does a better job in most situations. The Rifter is considered a grand ship because of the simple fact that it is average or above average in every meaningful area. Anything you can't outtank you probably outgun. Anything you can't outgun you can outrun and so forth - it's more than the sum of it's parts. Additionally, keep in mind that even a wonderful T1 frigate is still, at the end of the day a T1 frigate. Even the best of them are mere cannon fodder when thrown into battle against most of the other ship classes, and the key to being successful is knowing what you can and cannot get away with. Trying to bring down a Caracal alone in a Rifter is certainly possible, so long as the Caracal pilot has made the necessary mistakes and miscalculations before hand. If it is armed as the stereotypical caldari noob ship, then a AB rifter has little issue picking it apart piece by piece. But if the Caracal is set up from the start with the intention of PvP, there is a fair chance that it will be armed with 5 AML's to your 3 autocannons, and 3 - 5x more EHP, and a web to make sure that the whole AB gimmick doesn't earn you any respite. If you accidentally get tangled up with such a Caracal, your only hope is to run or hope the other player loses interest in a hurry because there is almost no hope of victory, and even survival is a shaky proposition. If instead you are engaging T1 frigates, keep in mind that many people who intentionally PVP tend to have fairly good skills for the ship class. This means that, at a miniumum you'll want frig IV and the capacity to fit T2 guns. Were a noob to take their T1 fitted Rifter against say a Condor piloted by someone with a lot of time in game, there is a pretty good chance that the condor (which is woefully armed and defended) would mop the floor with your ship. Believe it or not, every percentage point counts, and in anything approaching a fair fight you may find that 5% extra hull HP is the only thing standing between your pod and the black. But, I don't want to sound harsh. Everyone who sets out on a grand PVP adventure is going to lose a lot of ships at first. Until you figure out what doesn't work (in terms of how you use your ship and fittings) it's hard to understand what will work (and why). Since a fully fitted T2 rifter costs less than 2 million isk, it's fairly easy to bankroll the learning experience. And everything you learn in your frigates will help you in some capacity down the road. Learning how to survive as a tackler in battles beyond your ability to win will help you in the future when you desperately need to shake a tackle and get the hell out of dodge. Every time you get killed, file that away for future reference - because if you lost a ship to something, it stands to reason you may be able to exploit that in the future to make sure you're the one who goes home with your ship.
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2009.06.10 17:21:00 - [23] Originally by: BwanaKuu Orbit at 500mm, put the AB on That's probably the bulk of your problem right there. You are never going to maintain a 500m orbit with your AB running and even if you could your angular velocity is going to be so high that you wouldn't be able to hit the broad-side of a barn. If you must orbit at 500, use the AB/MWD to close but orbit with just your base speed. If you want to orbit with the AB on, push your orbit out further and fight in falloff. You'll need T2 guns with Barrage to do this effectively, but you'll be surprised by the results. An even better alternative is not to orbit at all but to fly manually, which takes practice.
Heccie Thump	Posted - 2009.06.10 17:33:00 - [24] Edited by: Heccie Thump on 10/06/2009 17:35:10 Edited by: Heccie Thump on 10/06/2009 17:35:00 The Rifter IS an awesome ship, but getting in to 500m, orbiting and turning on the guns is NOT the way to fly it. Yes, this tactic can be used against most ships cruiser and bigger and even against most frigates, but you do need to be aware of your enemies limitations. Up against another Rifter it is a lottery - do you have better skills? Does he have a NOS or a rocket fit? Could his ship be rigged? (Yes it happens. I killed a Rifter 1v1 that had 2 damage rigs on it and a NOS - I had Barrage and orbitted at 7km and he couldn't). Do you really want to get in close to a Blaster fitted frigate? Can you out DPS a Punisher? The Rifter is NOT an instant PWN-mobile. You need to work at it to make it that. Download the video in the link below and have a look at just what can be done with a Rifter: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1076255
Psiri	Posted - 2009.06.10 17:40:00 - [25] Rifter is great because it's the fastest heavy hitting frigate out there. This means that you get to dictate range versus any other AB fitted frigate, which becomes especially powerful the moment you load up on barrage ammo and realise that 500m orbit isn't the only way to fight in a frigate. Slap on a nos instead of launcher IMO in order to combat neuts, also realise that any cruiser with properly skilled for drones will destroy you nomatter what. This can be a problem even for assault ships. Lastly, frigates are balanced by their cheap pricetag. You can afford to blow them up.. oh and be careful with your approach because if your transversal is low enough you will get owned by turrets before you even get into orbit.
iShift Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2009.06.10 19:06:00 - [26] 200mm plates are gay
Zo5o Broski Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:35:00 - [27] Quote: So, it is the best T1 frig. Tristan > Rifter due to massive EHP potential. YA RLY. HABEEB IT. EHP is going to save your butt way more often than speed will in today's EVE, and I've pwned any rifter I've ever soloed in my Tristan. Granted, most of them could have easily pwned me by keeping out of blaster range and picking me off with T2 long range ammo... BUT THEY NEVER EXPECT THE EHP OF AN UNTANKED CRUISER, so they don't, and they die.
NeoTheo Dark Materials Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:37:00 - [28] its just a wonderful ship. ;) Dark Materials
Dirty Sue	Posted - 2009.06.10 23:40:00 - [29] Originally by: Zo5o Quote: So, it is the best T1 frig. Tristan > Rifter due to massive EHP potential. YA RLY. HABEEB IT. EHP is going to save your butt way more often than speed will in today's EVE, and I've pwned any rifter I've ever soloed in my Tristan. Granted, most of them could have easily pwned me by keeping out of blaster range and picking me off with T2 long range ammo... BUT THEY NEVER EXPECT THE EHP OF AN UNTANKED CRUISER, so they don't, and they die. Fighting noobs like the OP doesn't count.
Tammarr	Posted - 2009.06.10 23:45:00 - [30] I remember the noob drake I found in a belt... I went in with my dps ranis, thinking: Oh this will be sweet. ...he had rockets fitted, and he hurted me so I had to runoff. (I did lure him to warp to a pos ^^) What you go up against, isnt always what you expect. A heavy missile drake noob, would've been in serious trouble. a noob that could only fit rockets... turned out to he made his best noob misstake ever. Rifter is good. Its realy realy good. But if you go up against the wrong setups/sp/targets. It wont win. And if your unlucky as you appear to be, go for a battleship and maybe you'll get lucky with the fittings for once =)



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