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Sniper Deimos; why so terrible?

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Levistus Junior Caldari The Perfect Storm Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2009.06.10 14:51:00 - [1] I understand why so many people complain about the blaster Deimos being terrible, and I agree to that. However, I've also heard a lot of ppl saying it also sucks as a sniper. And I have problems understanding why. I am not comparing it with a Zealot(pretty much everything falls short of that mark) but I've been able to get it pretty close to the Munin [Deimos, sniper] Reactor Control Unit II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M [empty high slot] Auxiliary Thrusters I Hybrid Locus Coordinator I 235 DPS 95+23 km range with Spike [Muninn, sniper] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Flameburst Light Missile Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Flameburst Light Missile Auxiliary Thrusters I Auxiliary Thrusters I 223 DPS 105+22 km range with Tremor. So, why is the Munin 'good' and the Deimos 'bad'?
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.10 15:01:00 - [2] Blaster deimos isn't terrible. It's just that flying a fragile, expensive ship with high dps which is well known for being fragile and high dps is just asking to get primaried and be an expensive lossmail. Also, your deimos fit is rather lacking in range.
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.06.10 15:36:00 - [3] Getting 'almost munin like performance' means something is woefully inadequate.
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2009.06.10 15:44:00 - [4] Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 10/06/2009 15:45:06 Two reasons: 1. Difficulty in fitting: Originally by: Levistus Junior [Deimos, sniper] Reactor Control Unit II The Zealot and Muninn can fit for full-on sniping without any fitting mods. The Eagle and Deimos can't because they're so short on grid. The Eagle has double range bonuses that make up for this somewhat with a sniper fit so it's still useful. 2. Range. You have to use four range mods on a Deimos to get ranges that are almost good enough for use in a sniper-HAC gang (~100km), if you use Spike. Muninn, Zealot, and Eagle can do it with fewer range mods and can do it without T2 ammo that gimps their tracking. For short-to-mid range DPS, a Deimos is very useful, but you can't really keep up with other HACs when it comes to sniping. Unfortunately, the Ishtar has much the same problem, so Gallente HAC pilots really are up the creek in terms of flying in a Sniper HAC gang.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.10 15:54:00 - [5] Ishtars can actually be quite competent snipers. Sentries are a ***** to deal with though.
Letifer Deus Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.10 15:56:00 - [6] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Ishtars can actually be quite competent snipers. Sentries are a ***** to deal with though. Yeah Ishtar is way better at it, as long as you're cool with abandoning 5 T2 sentries every so often.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.10 15:57:00 - [7] Originally by: Letifer Deus Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Ishtars can actually be quite competent snipers. Sentries are a ***** to deal with though. Yeah Ishtar is way better at it, as long as you're cool with abandoning 5 T2 sentries every so often. Hey, sometimes you can bookmark them and get them back!
Letifer Deus Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.10 16:03:00 - [8] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Hey, sometimes you can bookmark them and get them back! Yep. It's generally worth it, anyways. With 3x omnis and 2x sentry dmg rigs you get 94/42 range and 471 dps with bouncer 2s. That's pretty awesome DPS at that range. Or if you wanted better optimal you could go wardens at 117/30 and 404 dps
Harotak THE FINAL STAND Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.10 16:34:00 - [9] Its not so much that the Deimos is bad at it as it is about how the Ishtar is win.
Aniel Zaar Gallente Light of Orion	Posted - 2009.06.11 03:38:00 - [10] I concur, Ishtar is just much better at this then Deimos. The only reason you would fly that setup is if you are Gallente with no T2 sentry skills and you still want to snipe in a HAC. -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^ By the way, I am an Ishtar and T2 sentries fan. Fight to make the sentry damage rig work for all drones.
FT Diomedes Gallente Factio Paucorum	Posted - 2009.06.11 03:49:00 - [11] I prefer this setup, fitting mods suck: [Deimos, Dio's Deimos copy 3] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II Signal Amplifier II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M [empty high slot] Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Hammerhead II x5
Levistus Junior Caldari The Perfect Storm Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2009.06.11 10:47:00 - [12] I see a lot of ppl praise the Ishtar. I know it deals probably the best DPS of all sniping HACs, but I've always thought that relying on sentry drones while being in a really mobile gang is a pretty big handicap. Isn't constantly having to return and scoop them a too big disadvantage? On the topic of fitting mods, why does it really matter what you have to fit on the ship in order to make it work if it delivers adequate performance? I've never heard anyone stating that the Tachyon Apoc is a poor sniper although you need a Reactor Control to fit 7 guns(out of the 8 turret slots).
Noisrevbus Caldari Breams Gone Wild	Posted - 2009.06.11 11:20:00 - [13] @ the OP. You kind of answered your own question, didn't you? By overstacking range mods (picking one off only drops from you from 95+23 something like 91+23 doesn't it?) you still don't reach up to 100km. I know 5km is no larger distance, and you can easily adjust or begin firing in falloff. That's the reason the Deimos is not preferred though, and with a bonus to optimal instead of falloff i belive (as i said in the other recent Deimos thread) that the ship would sail up to become the second most popular after the Zealot. As it stands now though, that it can't quite reach the desired base range, is the reason it's the least used for the job. Why potentially second best? Well it has a good turret DPS landing it above the sheer turret damage of the Muninn and the total damage of the Eagle (provided the Eagle doesn't drop it's entire tank). On top of that, it has enough drone bay to be flexible in choices between sentries and anti-frigate work with warriors. It can use it's entire bandwidth and put out two sentries to up it's damage up to Zealot standards. It can use it's own sentries as peel damage by just distancing them out to a minimal transversal range (meaning, you can make your own sentries provide anti-tackler damage). It can also combine any form of two sets of light drones or one sentry and a flight of light drones at either time. I guess you could even do some sentry + 3x light +1x medium combination and have them out all at once (though i'm definately not a drone expert). The only point im trying to infer is that it has enough drone-bay to be flexible beyond it's 235 odd DPS. The only thing it's lacking is a feasible range, because even if the margin is small it play an important part - which makes pilots opt for the other HACs as it stands today. Switching the falloff bonus to optimal, would change that. Other than that, interesting thread .
Mikayla Grey Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.11 11:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Levistus Junior I see a lot of ppl praise the Ishtar. I know it deals probably the best DPS of all sniping HACs, but I've always thought that relying on sentry drones while being in a really mobile gang is a pretty big handicap. Isn't constantly having to return and scoop them a too big disadvantage? Yes you wont bring ishtars to proper sniper hac gangs.

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