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Invelious
Amarr
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.06.10 15:49:00 -
[1]
Scenerio: large fleet battle, say 50+ enemy ships all RR BS piled closely together. Allies warp in with a dictor, bubbles the enemy, 20 SB's all with EM bomb warp right on top of the RR BS fleet. launch's all of there bombs.
Question: will there be enough DPS from the bombs to basically nuke that entire fleet to death?
And i'm still under the impression that the bombs still have the 99% resistance to their own damage type, this would mean the bombs can survive their own blast.
and yes this is pretty much a suicide run, like eve style kamikaze |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.06.10 15:56:00 -
[2]
99% resist only lets them survive a few others. IIRC it's like 5 or so. Not happening. |
Invelious
Amarr
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.06.10 15:57:00 -
[3]
so what if it was done in waves of 5
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.06.10 15:59:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Davinel Lulinvega on 10/06/2009 15:58:53
 Originally by: Invelious
so what if it was done in waves of 5
Then they would leave? That one hictor isn't going to hold them forever you know. |
Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2009.06.10 15:59:00 -
[5]
At max skills, a bomb will do 8000 damage. Bombs, IIRC, have 240 HP and 99.5% resistance to their damage type, meaning that, at max skills, 5 bombs can detonate before popping each other. Therefor, you can launch bombs in maximum waves of six (the six bomb will not get popped by the previous five, but would pop any seventh bomb).
If you assume a RR battleship has 100,000 EHP (some have more, and since your scenario uses EM, a higher natural resist on armor, we should assume more), but more likely 120,000 EHP, you will want about 15 bombs to destroy the lot.
This means you will need to launch your bombs in waves, most likely from different vectors towards the fleet, and all told it will take you over half a minute to put out enough bombs from the moment of first decloak until you (potentially) destroy the enemy fleet. |
Invelious
Amarr
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.06.10 16:03:00 -
[6]
so with proper fleet coordination, this tatic is a viable option |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.06.10 16:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Invelious
so with proper fleet coordination, this tatic is a viable option
It would take perfect coordination and stupid targets.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2009.06.10 16:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Invelious
so with proper fleet coordination, this tatic is a viable option
Potentially, though coordination and positioning would be the greatest hurdles. You would most likely want an additionally wave just to be sure.
At that point we are talking about alot of bombers
--
Don't harsh my mellow |
Invelious
Amarr
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.06.10 16:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Wannabehero
Originally by: Invelious
so with proper fleet coordination, this tatic is a viable option
Potentially, though coordination and positioning would be the greatest hurdles. You would most likely want an additionally wave just to be sure.
At that point we are talking about alot of bombers
would be intresting to see this implemented.
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steave435
Caldari
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.06.10 18:14:00 -
[10]
You can apply far more then 6 bombs at a time to a target. All you need to do is make sure to spread the bombs out around the target. If you launch 1 set of bombs on each side, you can get the following result:
B-10k-T-10k-B
B = bomb, T = target
bombs are 20k from eachother, so they won't blow eachother up, but the target is in range of both sets. This way 12 bombs are applied to the target at once, and it can be expanded further by a set above, below, in front and behind etc. That would mean 6 sets of bombs, or a total of 36 bombs with over 250k damage. |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.06.10 18:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: steave435
You can apply far more then 6 bombs at a time to a target. All you need to do is make sure to spread the bombs out around the target. If you launch 1 set of bombs on each side, you can get the following result:
B-10k-T-10k-B
B = bomb, T = target
bombs are 20k from eachother, so they won't blow eachother up, but the target is in range of both sets. This way 12 bombs are applied to the target at once, and it can be expanded further by a set above, below, in front and behind etc. That would mean 6 sets of bombs, or a total of 36 bombs with over 250k damage.
That would work only on a single target though, not a fleet. |
Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2009.06.10 18:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: steave435
You can apply far more then 6 bombs at a time to a target. All you need to do is make sure to spread the bombs out around the target. If you launch 1 set of bombs on each side, you can get the following result:
B-10k-T-10k-B
B = bomb, T = target
bombs are 20k from eachother, so they won't blow eachother up, but the target is in range of both sets. This way 12 bombs are applied to the target at once, and it can be expanded further by a set above, below, in front and behind etc. That would mean 6 sets of bombs, or a total of 36 bombs with over 250k damage.
That would work only on a single target though, not a fleet.
This, the cross-section of your bomb blast radii is going to be much smaller, limiting your number of applicable targets.
In general, bombs are less effective at alpha-striking down an entire fleet of battleships, but are very nice as supplemental damage to your own gang/fleet (and at popping drones/fighters/tacklers) |
Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.06.10 20:16:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Max Hardcase on 10/06/2009 20:17:06
Well it shouldnt be too hard to coordinate a fairly decent overlap if your pilots have any skill at all. That will cause some problems for a RR gang, but not insurmountable if they have a decent SOP for this sort of thing.
As you said I think the real benefit of bombs is the denying the enemy the use of drones and tacklers.
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steave435
Caldari
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.06.10 23:59:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Wannabehero
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: steave435
You can apply far more then 6 bombs at a time to a target. All you need to do is make sure to spread the bombs out around the target. If you launch 1 set of bombs on each side, you can get the following result:
B-10k-T-10k-B
B = bomb, T = target
bombs are 20k from eachother, so they won't blow eachother up, but the target is in range of both sets. This way 12 bombs are applied to the target at once, and it can be expanded further by a set above, below, in front and behind etc. That would mean 6 sets of bombs, or a total of 36 bombs with over 250k damage.
That would work only on a single target though, not a fleet.
This, the cross-section of your bomb blast radii is going to be much smaller, limiting your number of applicable targets.
In general, bombs are less effective at alpha-striking down an entire fleet of battleships, but are very nice as supplemental damage to your own gang/fleet (and at popping drones/fighters/tacklers)
That was an example. If you are good, you can make the distance from the centre point to each bomb point only 7.5km, giving a 15km area with full effect from all sets, and outside of that, there will be a large area where 2-3 sets cover, and beyond that one where only 1 set cover. In the centre, everything sub cap except for some command ships and possibly a trimarked slaved abaddon or something similar would be destroyed, and so would alot of the stuff in the second area, while stuff in the third area would take heavy damage. |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.06.11 00:08:00 -
[15]
While theoretically possible, I'm still going to file that under the "impossible to execute in reality" heading. |
Kent Druall
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.11 00:27:00 -
[16]
It is possible that you could launch all at the same time 45 km from the target. There the blasts would make a ven diagram over the targets and the blasts would not hit each other?
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.06.11 00:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kent Druall
It is possible that you could launch all at the same time 45 km from the target. There the blasts would make a ven diagram over the targets and the blasts would not hit each other?
That's what the snigg guy just said...
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
JonnyKay
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.06.11 01:02:00 -
[18]
surely, if loads of bombers released a steady stream of bombs from the same direction (lets just imagine they're not being shot at) making sure only 6 were ever present at one time then all the bombs would land on the targets eventually without blowing each other up?
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Rajere
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.06.11 12:52:00 -
[19]
You can fire 8 bombs at once if, using your EM example, you had 0 Purifiers. "off-racial" ie unbonused EM bombs from non-purifiers deal 6400 damage, or 32 dmg after the 99.5% EM resists. Bombs have 240 hitpoints, so the 8th bomb will kill off any other bombs after it. 6400x8 > 8000x6, but just barely.
But really, unless all of your stealth bombers have Covert Ops V (most characters in Eve are not up to par with all level 5 in EFT), you can fire 7 bonused bombs at once. Actually as long as atleast 1 of your Purifiers only has Covert Ops IV instead of Covert Ops V, you can use 7 bombs.
To pull something like this off you need amazing coordination, but it could be done to any gang huddled up together somewhere like on a gate, with far less numbers than you'd think, and it can be done in a way that's practically undetectable to the gang your planning on bombing, until it's too late. All you need is:
1 Black Ops fit for bridging with plenty of fuel on hand
14 or 21 stealth bombers (2 or 3 fit with Covert Cyno Generators, regular cynos could work as these will probably die in the process anyway) depending on if the gang is largely BS or largely sub-bs ships
2 or 3 interdictors (1 for each bomber wave)
1 bait fit fully insured T1 battleship (scorpion ftw)
The howto Should be self explanatory but if you need a step by step guide one can be arranged.
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Dr Carstein
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Posted - 2009.06.11 16:48:00 -
[20]
Might be better to use a few void bombs, 5 (9000 cap neuted) of those will completely drain the cap of any battleship. No cap = no RR.
Of course they'll probably be using capacitor boosters, so not sure how useful it would be in reality.
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.06.11 18:50:00 -
[21]
It will work... you just need this great thing called teamwork...
But sounds expensive using 18 SB's and launchin bombs |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2009.06.11 20:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kent Druall
It is possible that you could launch all at the same time 45 km from the target. There the blasts would make a ven diagram over the targets and the blasts would not hit each other?
Impossible. Pilots would have to navigate while cloaked in order to not be shot on sight by the enemy fleet, rendering them invisible to their own teammates. We are talking 15+ individuals here, good luck making a ven diagram in such a hasty and unprepared situation (each stealth bomber has to have an exit path too to ensure escape). |
Invelious
Amarr
Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.06.11 22:58:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Invelious on 11/06/2009 22:58:58
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Originally by: Kent Druall
It is possible that you could launch all at the same time 45 km from the target. There the blasts would make a ven diagram over the targets and the blasts would not hit each other?
Impossible. Pilots would have to navigate while cloaked in order to not be shot on sight by the enemy fleet, rendering them invisible to their own teammates. We are talking 15+ individuals here, good luck making a ven diagram in such a hasty and unprepared situation (each stealth bomber has to have an exit path too to ensure escape).
this is a suicide op, which i stated in my intial post. who cares if the enemy spots you, all you would need is your designated SB's to warp in cloak, get postitions setup around the enemy fleet. warp the rest of the squads to the points assigned, launch bombs and warp away, or die trying. Teamwork can make this a very viable way to attack a POS or Station seiging BS fleet. |
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