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ZÆxera Capital Componentà. Initial offering/discussion

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Z'xera Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:48:00 - [1] ZÆxera Capital Componentà. Initial offering/discussion Me and my operation: I currently produce most t1 ships from bpcÆs. But lately have been in conversation with some capital producers in 0.0 that wish not to be named. They offered me the opportunity to produce capital components and sell to them straight away, so guaranteed market, which I want to take advantage of. The Plan. They highlighted components that they are in most demand of, I would be looking to purchase with the help of public funding: Capital Sensor Cluster Capital Capacitor Battery Capital Shield Emitter Capital Jump Drive Capital Computer System Capital Construction Parts Capital Ship Maintenance Bay Capital Corporate Hangar Bay I would produce these in high sec close to the delivery point they have specified then haul using freighter, this is all high sec. Any that are not sold to said builder will be placed on the market or I will speak out extra business links with other producers. The corporation currently has 1000 shares 500 of these will be sold at 30million each giving 15billion which will be used to purchase the bpoÆs and get production underway. All profits will be paid out via dividends with the corp receiving 50% all been used to fund future expansion with the rest been paid out to investors. Audit: sure but IÆm not willing to fund it. Chars: this is currently my only account. Scam: nothing I can say here make your own mind up Hit by a bus: IÆm playing eve all the time, donÆt go out side so canÆt get run over. War Dec: I would simply move zÆxera out corp and make a holder alt and continue production in npc corp but still using shares to pay out.
RothimusPrime Honored By Death	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:55:00 - [2] How much capital do you want to raise? Duration of the investment? Return on investment? Will you have an audit?
Proton Power Amarr Relentless Construction	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:55:00 - [3] Good plan, but you would need to let an alt into your corp or let one create a corp for you, purchase the bpo's and lock them down. Probably somone that has a good trust with the MD community. I can do it if you like, but if I have to run around and purchase all this and such I would charge a 1 time fee.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.06.11 18:31:00 - [4] If there are 1000 shares and you are selling 500 for 15B, that values your business at 30B ISK. Now if you purchase 15B in cap component BPO's and minerals you can make some good profits maybe 10% per month. Thats 1.5B profit. 50% for corp leaving 750M for divs. Pay 750M in divs to all shareholders (30B) = 2.5% ROI Below investment grade. If you want investment you would have to sell all the shares in your company and value it at 15B then pay at least 50% in dividends and take a management fee (70divs/30fee or 60/40 is good). Forgot reinvestment it doesn't add value for investors.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.11 18:47:00 - [5] Originally by: cosmoray Forgot reinvestment it doesn't add value for investors. Agreed, its much easier to just fund larger expansion for this sorta business. You'll definitely be looking at having to have the prints locked down somewhere. A very simple audit to conclude that you at least have the skills required to build them. And you'll have to post in your business plan how you plan to source minerals, to the detail wire won't be neccessary but you should research your planned location, how you'll move them to the build location, etc... Also, these future customers. Are they requiring you to drop the parts in low sec or will they accept empire pick up?
Z'xera Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.11 18:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: cosmoray Forgot reinvestment it doesn't add value for investors. Agreed, its much easier to just fund larger expansion for this sorta business. You'll definitely be looking at having to have the prints locked down somewhere. A very simple audit to conclude that you at least have the skills required to build them. And you'll have to post in your business plan how you plan to source minerals, to the detail wire won't be neccessary but you should research your planned location, how you'll move them to the build location, etc... Also, these future customers. Are they requiring you to drop the parts in low sec or will they accept empire pick up? i will be deleivering to them in high sec usuing a frieghter
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.11 19:05:00 - [7] Originally by: cosmoray If there are 1000 shares and you are selling 500 for 15B, that values your business at 30B ISK. Now if you purchase 15B in cap component BPO's and minerals you can make some good profits maybe 10% per month. Thats 1.5B profit. 50% for corp leaving 750M for divs. Pay 750M in divs to all shareholders (30B) = 2.5% ROI Below investment grade. If you want investment you would have to sell all the shares in your company and value it at 15B then pay at least 50% in dividends and take a management fee (70divs/30fee or 60/40 is good). Forgot reinvestment it doesn't add value for investors. Math is so sexy
Z'xera Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.11 19:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Saehta Originally by: cosmoray If there are 1000 shares and you are selling 500 for 15B, that values your business at 30B ISK. Now if you purchase 15B in cap component BPO's and minerals you can make some good profits maybe 10% per month. Thats 1.5B profit. 50% for corp leaving 750M for divs. Pay 750M in divs to all shareholders (30B) = 2.5% ROI Below investment grade. If you want investment you would have to sell all the shares in your company and value it at 15B then pay at least 50% in dividends and take a management fee (70divs/30fee or 60/40 is good). Forgot reinvestment it doesn't add value for investors. Math is so sexy it sure is i will make adjustment according to this when get home :)
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.11 19:06:00 - [9] Sounds like they are building carriers and dreads, two largest capital consumption ships IMHO. Do you have an estimated component number for each type? I say this because certain prints are in higher demand than others. For instance when building the Nyx in steady stream, for every 1 jump drive used, there are 2.5 drone bays. So to make sure that your production cycle is working 24/7 and your cranking a ship out every cycle often you have to have more than 1 print of a certain type working for you. The Shield emitter for instance only use 100 or so in every build, so they are about twice as less needed as the previous mentioned jump drives. So if you do have some concrete demand numbers from them, work with those to stagger your print purchases, you might even find you could likely reduce your total amount needed, get the business off the ground faster, and then plan for growth expansions. Also if you are moving these by freighter I hope the jump distances are manageable for you, for both mats and end product. A single nyx takes 25,330,000 m3 in component volume, and 14,904,089 m3 in mineral volume (assuming prints at ME 30). Have you possibly looked into minimizing your logistics by keeping your build location the same as your delivery?
CEOcat CAT Corp	Posted - 2009.06.11 19:10:00 - [10] Originally by: cosmoray Forgot reinvestment it doesn't add value for investors. What? Reinvesting gives an exponentially increasing debt to the owners. In corporate finance investing with your own capital is generally considered the most expensive way to finance projects because it increases the debt to the owners, which is the part of the debt side of the balance sheet that has the highest ROI expectations. For investors this normally mean that they put in X and suddenly the book value of that investment is much higher, the market value even higher and they will get dividends based on this new higher underlying value. This is very good stuff. But of course it is long term and requires loads of more trust then a 100% direct payout in the form of a dividend.
Z'xera Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.11 19:16:00 - [11] the components which i said they have a very large intrest in don't give enough to build full capitals.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.11 19:27:00 - [12] Originally by: Z'xera the components which i said they have a very large intrest in don't give enough to build full capitals. Thats well fine and dandy, but what ARE their consumption amounts. What would they be willing to purchase if you had the capacity?
Z'xera Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.11 19:50:00 - [13] say i purcahse researched bpo's so production takes 3 hours per unit if i have all 8 bpo's thats 8 units per bpo per day 64 componenets total they have said they will be buying around 63 for each componenet. so any left over be put on market to sell.
Caeli Maren Gallente Dark Canyon Corporation	Posted - 2009.06.11 20:14:00 - [14] Originally by: cosmoray If there are 1000 shares and you are selling 500 for 15B, that values your business at 30B ISK. Now if you purchase 15B in cap component BPO's and minerals you can make some good profits maybe 10% per month. Thats 1.5B profit. 50% for corp leaving 750M for divs. Pay 750M in divs to all shareholders (30B) = 2.5% ROI Below investment grade. If you want investment you would have to sell all the shares in your company and value it at 15B then pay at least 50% in dividends and take a management fee (70divs/30fee or 60/40 is good). Forgot reinvestment it doesn't add value for investors. Um, please correct me if I am wrong, as I am fairly new to all this. If you are counting the 500 shares the corp keeps towards the total valuation of the business, then would you not calculate the ROI with the full amount of profit instead of subtracting out the % that goes to the corp owned shares?
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.06.11 21:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Caeli Maren Originally by: cosmoray If there are 1000 shares and you are selling 500 for 15B, that values your business at 30B ISK. Now if you purchase 15B in cap component BPO's and minerals you can make some good profits maybe 10% per month. Thats 1.5B profit. 50% for corp leaving 750M for divs. Pay 750M in divs to all shareholders (30B) = 2.5% ROI Below investment grade. If you want investment you would have to sell all the shares in your company and value it at 15B then pay at least 50% in dividends and take a management fee (70divs/30fee or 60/40 is good). Forgot reinvestment it doesn't add value for investors. Um, please correct me if I am wrong, as I am fairly new to all this. If you are counting the 500 shares the corp keeps towards the total valuation of the business, then would you not calculate the ROI with the full amount of profit instead of subtracting out the % that goes to the corp owned shares? The OP stated the corp would keep half the shares. This means when there is a dividend the corp will get half the dividend. If the corp is using 50% for re-investment into the business, this leaves 50% for dividends. This means investors are getting 25% of the profit. Not enough IMO. Most businesses in Eve do not go up in value, as they are usually only sold as a sum of their parts. There isn't really any goodwill in Eve. It is best to sell ALL shares in a business. If the owner is taking a share he needs to inject assets equalling his share. It is right that a manager takes a fixed management fee (30-40% of profits), and the rest is paid as dividends.
Z'xera Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.11 21:14:00 - [16] currently editing it so that all 1000 shares are givin out at 15million isk each totaling 15billion then all profit will be payed out in dividens, before this i will take 25-30% un sure yet to reinvest then will pay the rest out in dividens.
Caeli Maren Gallente Dark Canyon Corporation	Posted - 2009.06.11 22:21:00 - [17] Originally by: cosmoray The OP stated the corp would keep half the shares. This means when there is a dividend the corp will get half the dividend. If the corp is using 50% for re-investment into the business, this leaves 50% for dividends. This means investors are getting 25% of the profit. Not enough IMO. My understanding of the OP was that all profits would go to dividends. Half of the dividends would go to the corp. All of that would be used for reinvestment. In any case, it looks like he will be reorganizing the shares/dividends as you suggest.
Z'xera Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.12 00:07:00 - [18] original post updated with changes highlighted
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.12 06:40:00 - [19] Originally by: Z'xera I would be looking to purchase with the help of public funding: Capital Sensor Cluster Capital Capacitor Battery Capital Shield Emitter Capital Jump Drive Capital Computer System Capital Construction Parts Capital Ship Maintenance Bay Capital Corporate Hangar Bay If you are interested in using these BPOs to help secure your venture, I would be happy to aquire and lock them down in one of my holding corps for a modest fee. The holding corp would provide full research POS facilities with modest slot fees should you need to carry out ME/PE research on these BPOs. Should your require additional research or production capacity, I can also have alts within the holding corp assist you.
Z'xera Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:39:00 - [20] the problem with this is if i get other connections i may need to shift production around so moving bpo's and sourcing minerals in local area is better than hauling complete componenets. you may see my posting on the sell forums offering this soon as i currently have 1 capital bpo which is aimed at a very specific market of which i have sold 1 batch already.
eVaLF Delivery Luck	Posted - 2009.06.12 11:14:00 - [21] Originally by: Z'xera the problem with this is if i get other connections i may need to shift production around so moving bpo's and sourcing minerals in local area is better than hauling complete componenets. you may see my posting on the sell forums offering this soon as i currently have 1 capital bpo which is aimed at a very specific market of which i have sold 1 batch already. Then myself, bad, or whom ever you choose moves the comp bpo's for you. It may require a small fee again, I know I would charge you for it, not sure about bad. This IMO is the only way you will get this IPO off the ground.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.12 11:21:00 - [22] Originally by: Z'xera the problem with this is if i get other connections i may need to shift production around so moving bpo's and sourcing minerals in local area is better than hauling complete componenets. you may see my posting on the sell forums offering this soon as i currently have 1 capital bpo which is aimed at a very specific market of which i have sold 1 batch already. Are you planning on moving the BPOs about often?
Z'xera Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.12 11:25:00 - [23] the costs here are mounting up :) depending on who i am dealing with at the time currently the people i am dealing with would like delivery in 2 system either side of empire so moving the bpo's will probly be every 2weeks or so.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:00:00 - [24] Originally by: Z'xera the costs here are mounting up :) depending on who i am dealing with at the time currently the people i am dealing with would like delivery in 2 system either side of empire so moving the bpo's will probly be every 2weeks or so. Moving a valuable set of blueprints from one side of empire to the other every two weeks is a significant element of risk. How are you planning to carry out the transport safely? What volume of components are demanded at both production locations and on what schedule? Is there room in your schedule for: 1) Making BPCs at one central location where the BPOs are locked down and shipping the BPCs to the two build sites. 2) Having a set of BPOs at each build site.
Z'xera Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:08:00 - [25] i would be using the frieghter as that would need moving aswell so through high sec is resonably safe. 2 sets of bpo's? that racking up the initial cost, and bpcs take time to make but maybe.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:16:00 - [26] What you'll want to do is focus on those capital items which you know can move quick and fast, scale back your initial spread. Focus on stay, plates, clusters, jump drives, and maybe... drone bays. Get two copies of each prints, setup two build alts and just source your minerals locally. You stay within your operating goal of 15-20b, there is less logistical headache, and less risk overall. If you plan to expand you can purchase prints and keep them local and build off copies if need be. As stated before, I'd do all of the above and even offer research slots just for the hell of it. it does sound that you're genuinely interested in getting this off the ground and likely just need some assistance and push in the right direction.
eVaLF Delivery Luck	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:20:00 - [27] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria What you'll want to do is focus on those capital items which you know can move quick and fast, scale back your initial spread. Focus on stay, plates, clusters, jump drives, and maybe... drone bays. Get two copies of each prints, setup two build alts and just source your minerals locally. You stay within your operating goal of 15-20b, there is less logistical headache, and less risk overall. If you plan to expand you can purchase prints and keep them local and build off copies if need be. As stated before, I'd do all of the above and even offer research slots just for the hell of it. it does sound that you're genuinely interested in getting this off the ground and likely just need some assistance and push in the right direction. Sounds like you have 3 people willing to help you do this, BUT i am fully against you moving the BPO's through empire, even I do not want that responsibilty.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:24:00 - [28] Originally by: Z'xera i would be using the frieghter as that would need moving aswell so through high sec is resonably safe. You would be a viable gank target with those BPOs in your cargo hold.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:24:00 - [29] Originally by: eVaLF Sounds like you have 3 people willing to help you do this, BUT i am fully against you moving the BPO's through empire, even I do not want that responsibilty. Me as well, I prolly should have clarified that more. I think instead of moving prints and even bothering with copying it would be much better long term to scale back the types of prints and instead focus on amounts. Two of this, two of this, three of that, etc... Moving prints is a giant PITA even if you're just gate to gate with an orca and the prints hidden in the corporate hangar.
Z'xera Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:29:00 - [30] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria What you'll want to do is focus on those capital items which you know can move quick and fast, scale back your initial spread. Focus on stay, plates, clusters, jump drives, and maybe... drone bays. Get two copies of each prints, setup two build alts and just source your minerals locally. You stay within your operating goal of 15-20b, there is less logistical headache, and less risk overall. If you plan to expand you can purchase prints and keep them local and build off copies if need be. As stated before, I'd do all of the above and even offer research slots just for the hell of it. it does sound that you're genuinely interested in getting this off the ground and likely just need some assistance and push in the right direction. correct i see good profit to be made even if have to sell to market and make new business connections etc good isk to be made. With Regards to the moving through empire i fully understandso maybe concentrating my effort in one area initially were i can sell directly to market my business connections and maybe seek out more. Indeed if anyone is reading this and is in need of extra cap componenets hit me up :) Also maybe if i concentrate fully in one area, could it be possibly a better idea to build full sets of components then produce the ships aswell. not sure though as this needs more investment and am not sure inititally what that kind of burden.

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