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Luxior	Posted - 2009.06.12 08:14:00 - [1] Hi Luxior here, How much do you think the T3 ship and subsystem prices will be affected by the upcoming changes? I'd say prices will get better but still won't reach their intended target.
Braaage Ministry of Craft	Posted - 2009.06.12 08:19:00 - [2] They wont drop that much until CCP puts in the mechanism for choosing which subsystem you get from a reverse engineering job. In my opinion prices are too low as they are atm, it would seem people aren't factoring in reverse engineering losses or POS costs. Only time will tell if Rev Eng materials will drop in price or actually rise with the changes. -- POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more
Lurana Lay Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.12 08:24:00 - [3] What changes?
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.12 08:26:00 - [4] Originally by: Lurana Lay What changes? To the devblogs with thee! ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.06.12 08:32:00 - [5] Actually they've already dropped way too much in the last 4 days, nearly 200 mil, with hulls now selling for 350-450 mil. Basically, you will get the production costs down 66%, and you not have specific subs costing 10x much, bringing the whole ship down to some 500-600 mil, instead of todays 800-900 mil. _________________ - Rivqua - --- R.E.P.O. ---
Lurana Lay Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.12 08:37:00 - [6] Edited by: Lurana Lay on 12/06/2009 08:38:31 Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Lurana Lay What changes? To the devblogs with thee! Ahh. Quote: bringing the whole ship down to some 500-600 mil, If that's true then it is still failing the dev target of 300m.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.12 08:37:00 - [7] Originally by: Rivqua Basically, you will get the production costs down 66%, and you not have specific subs costing 10x much, bringing the whole ship down to some 500-600 mil, instead of todays 800-900 mil. So even with these changes, the prices will still be far higher than projected? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
CommmanderInChief Comply Or Die	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:31:00 - [8] They will be another useless addition just like Mauraders and Blackops becuase they are so silly priced no one will buy them...Wonder if CCP actually thinks about these things. I dont give me that players market stuff, cos if your selling so expensive then they wont be sold, then no one benefits.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:33:00 - [9] Originally by: CommmanderInChief They will be another useless addition just like Mauraders and Blackops becuase they are so silly priced no one will buy them...Wonder if CCP actually thinks about these things. I dont give me that players market stuff, cos if your selling so expensive then they wont be sold, then no one benefits. Marauders are fine. Blackops on the other hand...
CommmanderInChief Comply Or Die	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: CommmanderInChief They will be another useless addition just like Mauraders and Blackops becuase they are so silly priced no one will buy them...Wonder if CCP actually thinks about these things. I dont give me that players market stuff, cos if your selling so expensive then they wont be sold, then no one benefits. Marauders are fine. Blackops on the other hand... Do you see many about? Cos i dont...

Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:44:00 - [11] Originally by: CommmanderInChief Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: CommmanderInChief They will be another useless addition just like Mauraders and Blackops becuase they are so silly priced no one will buy them...Wonder if CCP actually thinks about these things. I dont give me that players market stuff, cos if your selling so expensive then they wont be sold, then no one benefits. Marauders are fine. Blackops on the other hand... Do you see many about? Cos i dont... There is (or was) a steady stream of Marauder traffic in Domain on their way to missions. Mostly Golems and Paladins with the occasional Kronos. Haven't ever seen a Vargur though.
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:50:00 - [12] Originally by: CommmanderInChief Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: CommmanderInChief They will be another useless addition just like Mauraders and Blackops becuase they are so silly priced no one will buy them...Wonder if CCP actually thinks about these things. I dont give me that players market stuff, cos if your selling so expensive then they wont be sold, then no one benefits. Marauders are fine. Blackops on the other hand... Do you see many about? Cos i dont... Dunno where you live but Ive seen about 200 muraders in the last few days flying about. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 25MAY09
Havohej Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.06.12 11:02:00 - [13] Lots of carebears in marauders, aye. And with the tractor beam bonus, what did anyone expect? As to the Vargur, I see quite a few in Frarn when I'm maintaining sec status above -1.99. "You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.06.12 11:17:00 - [14] 600ish mil for T3 sounds a bout right, making it any cheaper would put it in the way of T2.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.12 11:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Tzar'rim 600ish mil for T3 sounds a bout right, making it any cheaper would put it in the way of T2. They're suppposed to… Or, rather, they're supposed to exists alongside of T2 at a slightly higher price point (the oft-quoted 2-300mil), and be completely different. The problem is that they're rather poorly balanced for that right now, nor do they offer any useful differentiation (apart from the nberscout setup), so… meh…
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.06.12 11:30:00 - [16] As I see it bringing them down to 200-300 mil brings them so 'close' that they WOULD start to replace T2. Having joked around with them a bit on 'paper' I found that all of them have something that just works very well, perhaps they need some tweaking upwards to make other subystem/combinations more worthwhile. If a Tengu would be 250 mil would you EVER buy a Cerb?
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.06.12 11:35:00 - [17] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 12/06/2009 11:34:52 Originally by: Tzar'rim As I see it bringing them down to 200-300 mil brings them so 'close' that they WOULD start to replace T2. Having joked around with them a bit on 'paper' I found that all of them have something that just works very well, perhaps they need some tweaking upwards to make other subystem/combinations more worthwhile. If a Tengu would be 250 mil would you EVER buy a Cerb? Yes. 1. cerb is still cheaper 2. cerb has much longer range 3. cerb doesnt cause SP loss when you die
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.12 11:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Tzar'rim As I see it bringing them down to 200-300 mil brings them so 'close' that they WOULD start to replace T2. Having joked around with them a bit on 'paper' I found that all of them have something that just works very well, perhaps they need some tweaking upwards to make other subystem/combinations more worthwhile. If a Tengu would be 250 mil would you EVER buy a Cerb? Sounds more like they need to be tweaked to be something completely different. If a Cerb and a Tengu is that similar (and others will probably chime in to claim that they're not), then the Tengu has no reason to be in the game and should be redesigned.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.06.12 11:40:00 - [19] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 12/06/2009 11:34:52 Originally by: Tzar'rim As I see it bringing them down to 200-300 mil brings them so 'close' that they WOULD start to replace T2. Having joked around with them a bit on 'paper' I found that all of them have something that just works very well, perhaps they need some tweaking upwards to make other subystem/combinations more worthwhile. If a Tengu would be 250 mil would you EVER buy a Cerb? Yes. 1. cerb is still cheaper 2. cerb has much longer range 3. cerb doesnt cause SP loss when you die Tengu goes over 600m/s, does 500-600 dps at 117km range (maxed by targeting range, which is more than the Cerberus) and can permatank both god and beelzebub at the same time. I don't see how that would die in PVE. Bringing one into PVP is as silly as bringing a Cerb for PVP. So again, why would ANYONE buy a Cerb. It's not like you need one as the Drake is 10 times better for both PVE as PVP so the Cerb is almost always a non-option.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:34:00 - [20] Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 12/06/2009 12:41:32 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Tzar'rim As I see it bringing them down to 200-300 mil brings them so 'close' that they WOULD start to replace T2. Having joked around with them a bit on 'paper' I found that all of them have something that just works very well, perhaps they need some tweaking upwards to make other subystem/combinations more worthwhile. If a Tengu would be 250 mil would you EVER buy a Cerb? Sounds more like they need to be tweaked to be something completely different. If a Cerb and a Tengu is that similar (and others will probably chime in to claim that they're not), then the Tengu has no reason to be in the game and should be redesigned. This is my big dissappointment with T3. It was just supposed to be an alternative for T2. I was expecting part of it to be hugely expensive collectors crap we seem to get more and more, but not all of it. In the fanfest videos, they told it was supposed to be only that way for the top subsystems. What we got was a overpriced mantle piece, that will never see any real action. I would love, if CCP would actually implemented new items, that will be affordable to use in PvP. This is supposed to be largely a PvP game, so why is everything new designed in a way, that most people can't afford to use them in PvP? It was the same deal with the new drones. Wow, mixed damage types. Too bad they can't actually be produced in a way, that people might afford to use them. This is why it would have been great, if T3 actually would have been something different instead of just somethng better then T2. Their vision was good, but they seemed to forget it when deciding on the actual details of the ships. As they are now their price can't come down to T2 or they will just replace T2. The good thing is, that CCP has a good working vision. Now all we need is people willing to actually stay with that vision and balance the ship to fit it, instead of making the ships the focus and altering the vision to fit into them.

Firkragg Blue Labs Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:43:00 - [21] Originally by: Lurana Lay Edited by: Lurana Lay on 12/06/2009 08:38:31 Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: Lurana Lay What changes? To the devblogs with thee! Ahh. Quote: bringing the whole ship down to some 500-600 mil, If that's true then it is still failing the dev target of 300m. Anyone got a link to somewhere that actually states that the devs had this as the target price.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:49:00 - [22] Originally by: Firkragg Anyone got a link to somewhere that actually states that the devs had this as the target price. Yes ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.06.12 12:53:00 - [23] Originally by: CCP Chronotis I personally would expect that price range to sit between 100-300 million That very much leaves room for interpretation and backpedaling, Apart from that I don't WANT them to cost 100 mil. More ships isn't better because it would replace/mess up the whole cruisersize shiprange. Self-proclaimed idiot
Ydra Ko'Zyn	Posted - 2009.06.12 13:25:00 - [24] Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 12/06/2009 11:34:52 Originally by: Tzar'rim As I see it bringing them down to 200-300 mil brings them so 'close' that they WOULD start to replace T2. Having joked around with them a bit on 'paper' I found that all of them have something that just works very well, perhaps they need some tweaking upwards to make other subystem/combinations more worthwhile. If a Tengu would be 250 mil would you EVER buy a Cerb? Yes. 1. cerb is still cheaper 2. cerb has much longer range 3. cerb doesnt cause SP loss when you die Tengu goes over 600m/s, does 500-600 dps at 117km range (maxed by targeting range, which is more than the Cerberus) and can permatank both god and beelzebub at the same time. I don't see how that would die in PVE. Bringing one into PVP is as silly as bringing a Cerb for PVP. So again, why would ANYONE buy a Cerb. It's not like you need one as the Drake is 10 times better for both PVE as PVP so the Cerb is almost always a non-option. I was under the impression that T3 wasn't all that godly unless you fit it with 2 billion isk worth of deadspace gear. Having said that the difference between buying and fitting a 250 mil t3 vs a 120 mil cerb is still quite a bit. ...and yeah I think you're really underestimating how players will not like dealing with retraining skills after each ship pops. Sure it's only what 4-5 days to train it back up to 5 (and if it's not at 5 then you wont be getting the performance you state) If you loose 2 a month that's really going to start to add up in skill training loss.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.06.12 13:39:00 - [25] Edited by: Tzar''rim on 12/06/2009 13:39:55 If a Tengu would cost about 300 mil and you'd use a cheap fitting it would be less than a Golem, casco only. It still tanks more (especially with the MUCH lower sig radius), does more damage with missiles (but lacks drones) and is much faster. Equipping a Golem with torps makes it do more raw damage but due to the lack of range and it's slow speed I'm not sure that actually translates to faster missions. It's also less boring.
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2009.06.12 14:33:00 - [26] I hope you naysayers are having a laugh. T3 won't ever sit alongside T2 (with regards to cost). If they do, T2 (HACS) will be completely and utterly obsolete, since a T3 cruiser outshines them in every aspect. A T3 cruiser will laugh at a T2 HAC and thats before you consider things like interdiction nullifers.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.12 14:40:00 - [27] Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth T3 won't ever sit alongside T2 (with regards to cost). If they do, T2 (HACS) will be completely and utterly obsolete, since a T3 cruiser outshines them in every aspect. …which only shows that they're ill-conceived, not just in their construction mechanics but in their performance. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
CommmanderInChief Comply Or Die	Posted - 2009.06.12 15:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth T3 won't ever sit alongside T2 (with regards to cost). If they do, T2 (HACS) will be completely and utterly obsolete, since a T3 cruiser outshines them in every aspect. àwhich only shows that they're ill-conceived, not just in their construction mechanics but in their performance. Well tbh lets take this further, will there be any need for ANY sub cap ship? Seeing T3 are so versatile, you only need one ship with different subsystems to do whatever you want..why have any other?
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.12 15:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth T3 won't ever sit alongside T2 (with regards to cost). If they do, T2 (HACS) will be completely and utterly obsolete, since a T3 cruiser outshines them in every aspect. àwhich only shows that they're ill-conceived, not just in their construction mechanics but in their performance. Which is why they should cost so much more.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.12 15:17:00 - [30] Originally by: baltec1 Which is why they should cost so much more. No, because then they have been a waste of development time since they won't be used enough. Granted, that may happen anyway, but still… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki



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