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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1901
   |
Posted - 2012.05.16 18:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
In light of the upcoming boost to Cap Batteries (they will make you less vulnerable to NOS and Neuts), could we make at least a small adjustment to NOS as well.
They went from being very popular and slightly over powered to rarely used, while Neuts have largely become the mainstay of cap warfare.
Consider that if we left the basic rules of NOS alone except for one small change they would have a role again. Currently NOS only transfer cap away from your target and to your ship if the target has a higher percentage of cap than you have.
If you changed the variable from being based on the percentage of cap to instead be based on the actual amount of cap left NOS become viable again.
Currently Neuts are most effective against smaller ships that usually have less cap than you do, which is fine (esceptions of course exist).
With this change NOS would be most effetive against larger ships with more actual cap than you have (even if their percent of cap is lower than yours), while being somewhat worthless against smaller vessels.
This covers both ends of the spectrum, and gives both Neuts and NOS a distinct role. NOS would again be used, just against appropriate targets.
The Curse and especially the mostly ignored Pilgrim would once again become important ships in any fleet, and their fit would have a dramatic effect on how they were used.
NOS would become very popular on tacklers and other small ships that regularly engage larger vessels, as well as active tankers or other ships that burn a lot of cap compared to their likely close range targets.
Combinations of NOS and Neuts on the same ship would be counter productive.
This would seemingly be a fairly simple change, although I'm sure it would need to be thoroughly examined, and it would still remove some of the issues that caused NOS to be nerfed in the first place.
Please consider it.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Vito Antonio
State War Academy
Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 18:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
tldr |
Captain Sunnymuffins
Jita Customs and Excise
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 18:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Personal opinion, but I think that may be a little over-powered and encourage more-so for people to engage larger ships in a frigate - giving them even a distinct advantage.
A more solid plan might be to simply allow to nos to drain cap irrespective of whether the target has more cap than you. Since it's draining a smaller amount than the neuts it should be balanced. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1901
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 18:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
As an example, to clarify the above, with this change you would see:
I'm in a Pilgrim with 500 cap (to use totally fictional numbers to illustrate the point).
A Frigate at 100% cap (300) would not be affected by the NOS, unless my amount of cap dropped lower than his.
A Battleship at 100% (2000) cap would be affected by my NOS.
A Battleship at 50% (1000) cap would be affected by my NOS
A Battleship at 10% (200) cap would not be affected by my NOS.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1901
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 18:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Captain Sunnymuffins wrote:Personal opinion, but I think that may be a little over-powered and encourage more-so for people to engage larger ships in a frigate - giving them even a distinct advantage.
A more solid plan might be to simply allow to nos to drain cap irrespective of whether the target has more cap than you. Since it's draining a smaller amount than the neuts it should be balanced.
That was how they originally operated. They were deemed over powered against too wide a range of targets.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1001
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 18:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
This should be in F&I.
It's not a bad idea, but it might be a bit OP on very-low-cap-capacity ships, as they could become the poor man's Curse, becoming slightly-weaker neuts that cannot be stopped from firing other than by jamming (and we all know we don't need more neuting).
I would be more in favor to a fitting buff for both Nos and Cap Batteries to be easier to fit. As they are now, using them gimps the fittings of most ships that could benefit from them.
Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1902
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 18:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:This should be in F&I.
It's not a bad idea, but it might be a bit OP on very-low-cap-capacity ships, as they could become the poor man's Curse, becoming slightly-weaker neuts that cannot be stopped from firing other than by jamming (and we all know we don't need more neuting).
I would be more in favor to a fitting buff for both Nos and Cap Batteries to be easier to fit. As they are now, using them gimps the fittings of most ships that could benefit from them.
I agree, fitting requirements for both need to be looked at again as well.
One of the points I was attempting to make is that we now have a logical defense vs. both Neuts and Nos. It would be nice if NOS were effective enough for people to actually consider using that defense, without them being overpowered against all other ships if they don't use that defense.
Nos has become a useless module, which indicates that the (needed) nerf to them went a little too far.
Edit: I didn't put it in the other forum as it's more a request for a tweak rather than a new feature.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae
ROMANIAN-LEGION
176
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 18:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think it is a not bad idea, mainly due to that the smaller ships also don't draw as much. The cap transfer of a frigate isn't going to dramatically affect a cruiser, and probably not even make a battleship notice. Same hull sizes would work pretty much normal. If possible, I like the idea, but maybe for the features and idea forum? |
baltec1
1168
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
NOS kinda works on my retribution |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1902
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:NOS kinda works on my retribution
Yep, because we burn a lot of cap in them.
But we few who actually fit NOS are a vanishing breed.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
baltec1
1170
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gotta admit, if I can fit a NOS chances are I'll fit a neut instead. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1001
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Gotta admit, if I can fit a NOS chances are I'll fit a neut instead.
On my frigates, if I can fit a Nos and I'm certain I won't be fighting above my class, I'll fit a neut instead. Otherwise I'll fit a nos.
Anything but a frigate? Fit neuts to counter frigates.
Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Captain Sunnymuffins
Jita Customs and Excise
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 18:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:As an example, to clarify the above, with this change you would see:
I'm in a Pilgrim with 500 cap (to use totally fictional numbers to illustrate the point).
A Frigate at 100% cap (300) would not be affected by the NOS, unless my amount of cap dropped lower than his.
A Battleship at 100% (2000) cap would be affected by my NOS.
A Battleship at 50% (1000) cap would be affected by my NOS
A Battleship at 10% (200) cap would not be affected by my NOS.
Aha, now I understand you better. Yes, this would work although only to the extent of keeping your own cap alive at the slight expense of your enemy's. Wouldn't be possible to realistically cripple someone with it. Definitely worth a thought. |
Nephilius
Scions of Avalon
453
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 19:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nerf neuts.
"If." |
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