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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.09.16 15:44:00 -
[1]
I enjoy exploring for the sake of it. Finding gas clouds, derelict ships and abandoned bases. However the following issues detract from the immersion aspect :
1. The 2^32 (MAXINT) Autoscanner range. 15au is so arbitrary. Id like ships to have different scanner ranges based on their radar characteristics, and the characteristics of the item im searching for.
2. The items that appear on the autoscanner. From 15au away, I cant help but feel that individual frozen corpses just ARNT going to be picked up. I also dont understand that each individual debris and rock absolutely needs to appear in a scan. Especially in the case of some sites where a few derelict station objects have been overlayed to create a single composite structure.
3. The discovered item names. What is as_Research ? or Debris1 ? These are like internal CCP programming labels, not things that we should be seeing as text.
4. Flotsam containers. That are empty - because the derelict site isnt a spawn site - or are placed WITHIN the 1.5km collision bubble of the derelict base. Meaning that its impossible to reach!
5. Grid issues making the warp to distances random. Some totally huge derelict sites that I discovered I could only warp to when I was within 150km of the site. Some sites - consisting of a single asteroid or debris, I can warp to at 600km. Consistent warp to distances, or warp to distances based on some sort of computed signature radius for the site would be ... nice.
6. Unreeachable sites. Ive found some sites that are over 5au "outside" the traversable part of a solar system. Theres no possible way to get there short of flying there - or - perhaps - getting a mission from an agent who miraculously has a BM right there :P
7. Bad data on artifact items. Examining the "Rock Formation" object reveals a 1m3 volume. The attributes of most dereclict site items are likewise lacking any degree of sense that theyre actually meaningful.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.09.16 15:44:00 -
[2]
I enjoy exploring for the sake of it. Finding gas clouds, derelict ships and abandoned bases. However the following issues detract from the immersion aspect :
1. The 2^32 (MAXINT) Autoscanner range. 15au is so arbitrary. Id like ships to have different scanner ranges based on their radar characteristics, and the characteristics of the item im searching for.
2. The items that appear on the autoscanner. From 15au away, I cant help but feel that individual frozen corpses just ARNT going to be picked up. I also dont understand that each individual debris and rock absolutely needs to appear in a scan. Especially in the case of some sites where a few derelict station objects have been overlayed to create a single composite structure.
3. The discovered item names. What is as_Research ? or Debris1 ? These are like internal CCP programming labels, not things that we should be seeing as text.
4. Flotsam containers. That are empty - because the derelict site isnt a spawn site - or are placed WITHIN the 1.5km collision bubble of the derelict base. Meaning that its impossible to reach!
5. Grid issues making the warp to distances random. Some totally huge derelict sites that I discovered I could only warp to when I was within 150km of the site. Some sites - consisting of a single asteroid or debris, I can warp to at 600km. Consistent warp to distances, or warp to distances based on some sort of computed signature radius for the site would be ... nice.
6. Unreeachable sites. Ive found some sites that are over 5au "outside" the traversable part of a solar system. Theres no possible way to get there short of flying there - or - perhaps - getting a mission from an agent who miraculously has a BM right there :P
7. Bad data on artifact items. Examining the "Rock Formation" object reveals a 1m3 volume. The attributes of most dereclict site items are likewise lacking any degree of sense that theyre actually meaningful.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.09.16 16:58:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Selim on 16/09/2004 17:01:25
I totally agree. Exploration is really, really dull right now, and there is absolutely no profit in it.
Things that need to be worked on right away for content, IMO:
Trade
Research
Exploration
I think many more things need to be added for all three. For one thing for exploration, alot more things to look for. More derelicts, debris, gas clouds, etc. And there needs to be profit to be had in exploring.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.09.16 16:58:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Selim on 16/09/2004 17:01:25
I totally agree. Exploration is really, really dull right now, and there is absolutely no profit in it.
Things that need to be worked on right away for content, IMO:
Trade
Research
Exploration
I think many more things need to be added for all three. For one thing for exploration, alot more things to look for. More derelicts, debris, gas clouds, etc. And there needs to be profit to be had in exploring.
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2004.09.16 17:03:00 -
[5]
entire new scanning system (system scanning) is comin out with shiva no details yet though
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2004.09.16 17:03:00 -
[6]
entire new scanning system (system scanning) is comin out with shiva no details yet though
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.09.16 17:11:00 -
[7]
If you read my cmplaints - being able to scan the entire system *really* makes the problems we have worse!
The problem is :- the things we have to find are so unfinished. All the debris items and debris item types need to be renamed so they look less like asset names and more like ingame names that a scanner is likley to determine.
The total visiblity we already have is too much within 15au. I think that objects - such as asteroid belts - should - from long ranges - have masking effects. So should bein in a close orbit - or being on the other side of a planet.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.09.16 17:11:00 -
[8]
If you read my cmplaints - being able to scan the entire system *really* makes the problems we have worse!
The problem is :- the things we have to find are so unfinished. All the debris items and debris item types need to be renamed so they look less like asset names and more like ingame names that a scanner is likley to determine.
The total visiblity we already have is too much within 15au. I think that objects - such as asteroid belts - should - from long ranges - have masking effects. So should bein in a close orbit - or being on the other side of a planet.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.09.16 17:18:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: DeFood
If you read my cmplaints - being able to scan the entire system *really* makes the problems we have worse!
The problem is :- the things we have to find are so unfinished. All the debris items and debris item types need to be renamed so they look less like asset names and more like ingame names that a scanner is likley to determine.
The total visiblity we already have is too much within 15au. I think that objects - such as asteroid belts - should - from long ranges - have masking effects. So should bein in a close orbit - or being on the other side of a planet.
I agree VERY MUCH. Scanning should not detect things behind planets or stars or whatnot.
I also think that the long range scanner should not be like the regular scanner. It should be a hislot module that takes alot of CPU. It should then not show what the thing is on the scanner. Instead, it will show the signature radius and size of the object.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.09.16 17:18:00 -
[10]
Originally by: DeFood
If you read my cmplaints - being able to scan the entire system *really* makes the problems we have worse!
The problem is :- the things we have to find are so unfinished. All the debris items and debris item types need to be renamed so they look less like asset names and more like ingame names that a scanner is likley to determine.
The total visiblity we already have is too much within 15au. I think that objects - such as asteroid belts - should - from long ranges - have masking effects. So should bein in a close orbit - or being on the other side of a planet.
I agree VERY MUCH. Scanning should not detect things behind planets or stars or whatnot.
I also think that the long range scanner should not be like the regular scanner. It should be a hislot module that takes alot of CPU. It should then not show what the thing is on the scanner. Instead, it will show the signature radius and size of the object.
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Kovak
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Posted - 2004.09.16 18:20:00 -
[11]
More than anything I want some mystery in eve.
Eve is such a great concept in having such a giant universe with loads of systems. Unfortunately most of which are empty and not worth visiting. If I had originally been setting up the game I'd have gone through and removed every third or fourth system from the map, hidden all the gates so that they are there but very difficult to find.
Finally I'd have left a few interesting things in some of them. Could you imagine how cool it would be to spend 5-10 hours searching for a gate, locating it, getting in and finding a whole system to explore, getting out again and then finding the gate had disapeared! Very annoying I know, but good lord it would put some mystery into the game.
The possibilities are endless, all CCP would really need to do is add some USEFUL stuff, I mean the abandoned stations and the like are great, incredibly detailed and have some spectacular effects, but then you find them and generally they have very little to offer. Once you've found one you know there isn't any point in finding more because you know what to expect. If there was interesting hidden stuff, like hidden useable stations, hidden gates from system to system e.t.c it would allow people to have actual local knowledge of their territory and how to use it to their advantage. At the moment eve is an open book to anyone who cares to read it, which frankly is a shame.
None of the stuff above will ever happen tho, CCP are justfiably concerned with other aspects of the game. It's just a shame tho :(
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Kovak
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Posted - 2004.09.16 18:20:00 -
[12]
More than anything I want some mystery in eve.
Eve is such a great concept in having such a giant universe with loads of systems. Unfortunately most of which are empty and not worth visiting. If I had originally been setting up the game I'd have gone through and removed every third or fourth system from the map, hidden all the gates so that they are there but very difficult to find.
Finally I'd have left a few interesting things in some of them. Could you imagine how cool it would be to spend 5-10 hours searching for a gate, locating it, getting in and finding a whole system to explore, getting out again and then finding the gate had disapeared! Very annoying I know, but good lord it would put some mystery into the game.
The possibilities are endless, all CCP would really need to do is add some USEFUL stuff, I mean the abandoned stations and the like are great, incredibly detailed and have some spectacular effects, but then you find them and generally they have very little to offer. Once you've found one you know there isn't any point in finding more because you know what to expect. If there was interesting hidden stuff, like hidden useable stations, hidden gates from system to system e.t.c it would allow people to have actual local knowledge of their territory and how to use it to their advantage. At the moment eve is an open book to anyone who cares to read it, which frankly is a shame.
None of the stuff above will ever happen tho, CCP are justfiably concerned with other aspects of the game. It's just a shame tho :(
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Ephemeron
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Posted - 2004.09.16 18:50:00 -
[13]
It seems like CCP is very anti-exploration and anti-scouting. That's evident from 2 simple features:
1) pilots in space on main map
2) 15 AU omnipotent scanner, and mandatory listing of names in local chat
These are very extreme cases. So if you can't convince them to loosen up on those, forget about anything more radical.
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Ephemeron
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Posted - 2004.09.16 18:50:00 -
[14]
It seems like CCP is very anti-exploration and anti-scouting. That's evident from 2 simple features:
1) pilots in space on main map
2) 15 AU omnipotent scanner, and mandatory listing of names in local chat
These are very extreme cases. So if you can't convince them to loosen up on those, forget about anything more radical.
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Dumah Dakar
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Posted - 2004.09.16 20:41:00 -
[15]
I've been feeling my Eve experience feel a bit empty, and until I read this post I didn't know why. Mystery! There is no mystery in the Eve universe! I still from time to time play Freelancer even though I beat the game ages ago, because I still stumble upon rare items or hidden bases in gas clouds and stuff. The Freelancer universe is vastly smaller than Eve's...but it feels much bigger. IMO this is because you have to go and look for things. I remember the first time I seen "Refugee Hideout" on my hud... Give me a break!
Shiva, I feel, will help this by having player stations dotted in systems. The universe wont be quite so static.
Eve has such a huge opportunity to be even greater, I hope CCP takes advantage of this. 
____________________________________________________________
The words of great men and women were heard only because they spoke up when others did not. - Dumah Dakar |
Dumah Dakar
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Posted - 2004.09.16 20:41:00 -
[16]
I've been feeling my Eve experience feel a bit empty, and until I read this post I didn't know why. Mystery! There is no mystery in the Eve universe! I still from time to time play Freelancer even though I beat the game ages ago, because I still stumble upon rare items or hidden bases in gas clouds and stuff. The Freelancer universe is vastly smaller than Eve's...but it feels much bigger. IMO this is because you have to go and look for things. I remember the first time I seen "Refugee Hideout" on my hud... Give me a break!
Shiva, I feel, will help this by having player stations dotted in systems. The universe wont be quite so static.
Eve has such a huge opportunity to be even greater, I hope CCP takes advantage of this.
____________________________________________________________
The words of great men and women were heard only because they spoke up when others did not. - Dumah Dakar |
Tos' Lavoch
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Posted - 2004.09.16 21:43:00 -
[17]
They should have given us a blank map much as you get in X-2. IF you want to see what's through the next jump gate you have to fly through and see.
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Tos' Lavoch
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Posted - 2004.09.16 21:43:00 -
[18]
They should have given us a blank map much as you get in X-2. IF you want to see what's through the next jump gate you have to fly through and see.
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Tos' Lavoch
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Posted - 2004.09.16 21:45:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Tos' Lavoch on 16/09/2004 21:47:20
Double post
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Tos' Lavoch
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Posted - 2004.09.16 21:45:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tos' Lavoch on 16/09/2004 21:47:20
Double post
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.09.16 21:55:00 -
[21]
Exploration definitely needs to be reworked. I see all kinds of cool things on the scanner but I never even bother to go there since I know for certain that there will be NOTHING of any worth there. '
But as bad as exploring is, Trading is far worse. Please put some profitable trade routes in CCP! If you made extremely profitable trade routes between 0.0 and empire space then there would actually be a purpose for mercenary groups too (protection), as well as give pirates something valuable to loot.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.09.16 21:55:00 -
[22]
Exploration definitely needs to be reworked. I see all kinds of cool things on the scanner but I never even bother to go there since I know for certain that there will be NOTHING of any worth there. '
But as bad as exploring is, Trading is far worse. Please put some profitable trade routes in CCP! If you made extremely profitable trade routes between 0.0 and empire space then there would actually be a purpose for mercenary groups too (protection), as well as give pirates something valuable to loot.
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Kovak
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Posted - 2004.09.16 22:58:00 -
[23]
I think CCP hope to solve a great deal of the mystery elements of the game by removing some of the map features (I think?) and adding alot of player owned structures.
What I think would really improve the game would possibly be the ability to disable gates for a certain amount of time. If you could hit a gate with enough firepower that it knocks it out for say a couple of hours, you could have some immense fun. Obviously you'd need to make this possible in only lower security, non main traffic bearing systems else there'd be too much whining. But it would be a very nifty feature.
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Kovak
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Posted - 2004.09.16 22:58:00 -
[24]
I think CCP hope to solve a great deal of the mystery elements of the game by removing some of the map features (I think?) and adding alot of player owned structures.
What I think would really improve the game would possibly be the ability to disable gates for a certain amount of time. If you could hit a gate with enough firepower that it knocks it out for say a couple of hours, you could have some immense fun. Obviously you'd need to make this possible in only lower security, non main traffic bearing systems else there'd be too much whining. But it would be a very nifty feature.
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Telos Sascheros
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Posted - 2004.09.17 00:18:00 -
[25]
A blank map would be lovely. Empire map over, say, 0.5 and over would be revealed. 0.4-0.1 would be revealed maybe 2-3 systems forward as you travel. 0.0 would be completely blank and you'd only get the next system(s). Now that might give some sense of exploring the unknown.
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Stand tall and shake the Heavens. |
Telos Sascheros
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Posted - 2004.09.17 00:18:00 -
[26]
A blank map would be lovely. Empire map over, say, 0.5 and over would be revealed. 0.4-0.1 would be revealed maybe 2-3 systems forward as you travel. 0.0 would be completely blank and you'd only get the next system(s). Now that might give some sense of exploring the unknown.
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Stand tall and shake the Heavens. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.09.17 01:08:00 -
[27]
Uhm
Exploration is NOT Scouting.
Exploring - going out into Eve and finding cool and unusual things - is NOT related to Scouting for fleets, which is an entirely different topic.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.09.17 01:08:00 -
[28]
Uhm
Exploration is NOT Scouting.
Exploring - going out into Eve and finding cool and unusual things - is NOT related to Scouting for fleets, which is an entirely different topic.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Nyrram
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Posted - 2004.09.17 01:37:00 -
[29]
From the first day I played EVE, I thought it would be much better if the "Map" were set up along the same lines as the old BBS game, TradeWars.. if any of you remember TradeWars, you started out with no explored sectors in your ship's memory bank.. you had to just jump to the next sector to see what was there. The ship's scanner (IF you had enough cash to purchase a good one) could tell you roughly what was in the sectors surrounding the one you were in (number of ships, stations, planets, etc) but not exactly anything specific. The autopilot would use the best possible route to the target sector, but only from sectors already explored.
In EVE, I always wanted to see something along the same lines.. every pilot starts with a navigational chart of the Empire systems, but exploration past that would be just that.. exploration... or at least aquisition. Sections of navigational data could be copied and sold to other players. Asteroid fields would have to be DISCOVERED and noted in the nav computer instead of having a magical beacon at each and every one.. Planets would be fairly easy to find, so could still warp to any planet or moon in any given system, but at least make us explore a little bit for ore and secret enemy bases. ;)
Of course, even with a system like that in place, everyone would eventually be selling maps of the entire EVE universe for 100K or so.. but there could also be limits of how many times a given player's databank could be copied.. before you have to physically go back to the systems in question for 'verification' or something.. or the copying process could cost ISK at a station and be exponentially expensive in relation to how many systems worth of data you are copying.. *shrug*
At any rate, the entire map of the entire universe should not be available to every player from the day they set out in their noob ship.. progress should be aquired through effort or cash, like in every other aspect of the game.
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Nyrram |
Nyrram
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Posted - 2004.09.17 01:37:00 -
[30]
From the first day I played EVE, I thought it would be much better if the "Map" were set up along the same lines as the old BBS game, TradeWars.. if any of you remember TradeWars, you started out with no explored sectors in your ship's memory bank.. you had to just jump to the next sector to see what was there. The ship's scanner (IF you had enough cash to purchase a good one) could tell you roughly what was in the sectors surrounding the one you were in (number of ships, stations, planets, etc) but not exactly anything specific. The autopilot would use the best possible route to the target sector, but only from sectors already explored.
In EVE, I always wanted to see something along the same lines.. every pilot starts with a navigational chart of the Empire systems, but exploration past that would be just that.. exploration... or at least aquisition. Sections of navigational data could be copied and sold to other players. Asteroid fields would have to be DISCOVERED and noted in the nav computer instead of having a magical beacon at each and every one.. Planets would be fairly easy to find, so could still warp to any planet or moon in any given system, but at least make us explore a little bit for ore and secret enemy bases. ;)
Of course, even with a system like that in place, everyone would eventually be selling maps of the entire EVE universe for 100K or so.. but there could also be limits of how many times a given player's databank could be copied.. before you have to physically go back to the systems in question for 'verification' or something.. or the copying process could cost ISK at a station and be exponentially expensive in relation to how many systems worth of data you are copying.. *shrug*
At any rate, the entire map of the entire universe should not be available to every player from the day they set out in their noob ship.. progress should be aquired through effort or cash, like in every other aspect of the game.
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Nyrram |
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