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Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:18:00 - [1] Edited by: Saehta on 15/06/2009 14:31:17 NOTICE: This has not launched yet. The write up is for review currently. I will not honor any reservations made here as this is for discussion only. Bond will launch 19/6/2009 Contents: 1. Summary of bond offer 2. Involved Parties 3. Investment and return 4. Business plan 6. Statement of Assets 6. Full Disclosure of Risks 7. Full Disclosure of Main and Alts 8. Exit Strategy 9. The future 10. List of Investors 11. Questions 1.Introduction: My name is Saehta and I have bonds that I would like to offer. For the past few weeks I have been scouting out low-sec for moons in relatively quite locations and found what I am looking for. The material composition of the moons, after reaction, are profitable based on current prices and trends of these materials over the past 3 months. I have liquidity for 1 tower but this complex reaction chain will require buying 3. This bond offer is to finance the endeavor. 2.Involved Parties: While the station will be launched for my corp, it is only used for moon harvesting and reactions. I will be the sole person running the Bond. 3. Investment and return The bond offer is for 1.2 bil to be paid back after 3 months Total value of bond: 1200 million isk Number of bonds: 120 Cost per bond: 10 million Buy back: 10.6 million Interest: 6% per month The current plan is to buy back the bonds after a 3 month period based on projected returns though this may be extended depending on market values 4. Business Plan After running a small POS, selling raw materials, I am ready to begin reactions. IÆve been surveying for several days and found several moons in a system that have something more than hydrocarbon o.O To be specific without being specific, the moons I have can host several simple reactions to them be moved to a complex reactor station. There are also additional R8 and R16 minerals that can be taken advantage of and sold in their raw form. I am looking to other systems still but, for now, IÆm focused on establishing these bases to take advantage of the location. I plan on expanding after this bond offer to include other complex reaction, should I find matching minerals to the raw mats IÆm selling, and possibly manufacturing while my corp works on securing a 0.0 spot in our alliance. IÆll take (expand?) my business there when the time comes but for now, this is a learning and hopefully profitable venture. Comparing MyPOS fuel cost to my projected sales, I see that I will make nearly triple the cost of maintenance. I expect to have made 1.2 billion by the end of the three months allowing plenty of cushion for repayment. 5. Statement of Assests I have an estimated 350 mil ISK and a small fleet of Mining ships/barges IÆve collected as my skills increased. Combined with modules and raw mats, they have a rough worth of 300 mil. I also have BPOÆs of ships that I intend to research in the future for my pvp alt worth about 1 bil. In addition, I also have several station pieces and turrets bought at a cheap rate from a corp mate who lost a tower in another region, hence only a need for 1.2 bil.
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:19:00 - [2] Edited by: Saehta on 15/06/2009 14:20:01 6. Full Disclosure of Risks A. Audit B. Low-Sec C. War-dec D. Hit-by-bus A. The most glaring risk to the community may be my refusal to Audit. From what I have seen on these boards, this is held up as a shining beacon of truth when it isnÆt. Beyond confirming skills, which mostly arenÆt needed in POS operation, they serve no purpose. Instead of submitting to an audit, I will lock down the BPOÆs I have. I have an individual in mind for this that is respected by the community but I wish to speak with him in game first and hence the delay on the bond offer. After negotiating with him, I will announce it here and the bond will begin 1 day later to give investors time to decide. The BPOÆs do not total the amount I am requesting, falling short by about 200 million. If this is upsetting to investors, I could reduce the bond and substitute my own funds but I like to have a cushion for the unknown (such as a hauler moving a tower getting ganked). B. Obviously, the POS is in low-sec and that carries with it risk. I have done my best to minimize this by establishing safe points along two different routes I could use to move goods in addition to only operating during off-hours. C. I have many corps friends who would love a good fight but I am keeping this operation as quiet as I can and stay out of local chat dialogue. I will have a formidable defense on the towers capable of inflicting some significant damage and the towers will be in a system away from trade routes and 0.0 entrances. All of this canÆt stand up to someone doing it for the lulz with a large enough force. Should the towers be destroyed, the BPOÆs will be sold along with personal assets to repay investors. D. Should I vanish, for whatever reason, the BPOÆs can be sold to recover loses and the holder can take a cut of 5% out for the service. Again though, the BPOÆs do not cover the entire bond so this is a risk at lost ISK 7. Full Disclosure of Main and Alts My main is Saehta, she is fairly ænewÆ, as am I to eve, being 3 months old. I have a pvp alt named Phey Onat who is about 2 + months old. Beyond that, I have 4 alts with no skills who sit in trade hubs. 8. Exit Strategy The current plan is to buy back the bonds at the price initially invested after a 3 month period based on projected returns though this may be extended depending on market values 9. The Future I would like to get into module and ship production but I have a ways to go before I have both skills and knowledge for that. This is a way to get a foot in the door and learn more about T2 manufacturing. I am awaiting my corps transition to 0.0 which will bring about new dangers and opportunities and will likely spread out into the systems for sovereignty bonus. 10. List of Investors Not taking reservations at this time
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:19:00 - [3] Edited by: Saehta on 15/06/2009 14:35:46 11. Questions: I am reserving this section to answer any questions you may have. Q: When is interest payed? A: Interest will be payed out on the 15th of the first two months. On the third month the bonds will be bought back at 10.6 mil so that the third month of interest is included. I would like to note that the actual bond will be issued in a new thread so no editing is done to it Any changes to this thread will be noted here Updates: Formatting, I posted quickly to get all of this in Corrected the term of the bond to the intended 3 month length Specified payments and buy back period in addition to formatting issues
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:23:00 - [4] Originally by: Saehta The bond offer is for 1.2 bil to be paid back after 2 months Originally by: Saehta The current plan is to buy back the bonds after a 3 month period
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:25:00 - [5] Thank you for noticing this, I had been toying with projections and expectation of returns for hours and the post went through a lot of editing. My initial thought was to repay after 2 months but it wasnt realistic
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:27:00 - [6] You quote an interest rate of 6% but don't specify over what period this will be paid out on. Is it 6% per day, week, month or over the three month period?
James Tundra Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:30:00 - [7] Quote: 1. Summary of INSERT BUSINESS NAME You are going to need to change something about this because some of these things don't add up. 1. Low sec (Most Low Sec IPOs fail) 2. Reactions (Most reaction IPOs fail) 3. 6% Interest 4. No Collateral Generally you either secure it with collateral, at a low interest rate. Or you have no collateral at a high interest rate.
Kalrand	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Saehta 1. Summary of INSERT BUSINESS NAME
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:32:00 - [9] I have BPO's as collateral as noted in the Risk segment
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: Saehta 1. Summary of INSERT BUSINESS NAME haha yeah, again my copy paste from the sticky failed me in editing. This isnt a new business going up. It's just me working
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:34:00 - [11] It may be interst is too low considering the low sec risk. If this is the general feeling I could raise it and extend the buy back period
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:39:00 - [12] Originally by: Saehta It may be interst is too low considering the low sec risk. If this is the general feeling I could raise it and extend the buy back period For me the fundamental red flag is your casual refusal to do an audit. Whether an audit is as important as you providing 83% collateral or not is irrelevant compared with 'I'm telling the truth and here's the proof'. It's incredibly easy for you to use a few small bonds to establish trust and then seek more money, all without any audit. While you might not think an audit is worthwhile (and indeed there are many ways to escape red flags with one), your approach, combined with the young age of your alts, means I'll not be investing and would advise anyone else to think seriously about whether they want to help you establish an unsubstantiated reputation.
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:54:00 - [13] I realize that to movers and shakers, this may seem like a small bond but it's backed by the sum of what i've been able to achieve so far in eve and doesnt feel small to me. I am 'young' and spent most of my time reading guids while core skills trained. Moon Mining is what sparked my interest in an industrial career path and why I am here asking for funding. Am I looking to expand in the future, of course. I will have collateral then just as I do now so that investors do not need put blind faith in me.
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2009.06.15 14:57:00 - [14] Edited by: Estel Arador on 15/06/2009 14:58:22 In general, I think you written the posts too much from your perspective and haven't thought a lot about what a potential investor might think. Just some thoughts: Quote: While the station will be launched for my corp, it is only used for moon harvesting and reactions. I will be the sole person running the Bond. Does that mean the towers will be in your current corp, with other people having access to them? Quote: I also have BPOÆs of ships (...) worth about 1 bil. Is that based on NPC prices? And what's the exact worth? Quote: I also have several station pieces and turrets bought at a cheap rate from a corp mate who lost a tower in another region, Ignoring the fact that your corp mate lost the tower, those pieces and turrets are exactly the assets which will be blown to bits if your business fails because your tower got busted. In short, not very useful to alleviate investors' concerns. Quote: my refusal to Audit You claim they serve no purpose, yet it has been clearly established that audited businesses are less likely to end with a scam. Even if that's the only use of an audit (which it isn't), that would be enough of a use to submit to one. Quote: I have an individual in mind for this that is respected by the community but I wish to speak with him in game first and hence the delay on the bond offer. You should've arranged that before posting, but this probably is your only good idea in the entire plan. Quote: The BPOÆs do not total the amount I am requesting, falling short by about 200 million. Let's not forget that that number does not include any interest. Quote: Obviously, the POS is in low-sec and that carries with it risk. I have done my best to minimize this by establishing safe points along two different routes I could use to move goods in addition to only operating during off-hours. Obviously you have no idea what the risk is. Being attacked on your (supply) routes isn't as big a problem as your POSses getting blown to smithereens. Quote: I have many corps friends who would love a good fight Does that include the one who lost his tower? Quote: I will have a formidable defense on the towers Formidable? What about the reactors and stuff you also need to put on them?
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 15:02:00 - [15] Thank you for the question, I'll address them shortly in the 3rd post
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.06.15 15:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Saehta I realize that to movers and shakers, this may seem like a small bond but it's backed by the sum of what i've been able to achieve so far in eve and doesnt feel small to me. I am 'young' and spent most of my time reading guids while core skills trained. Moon Mining is what sparked my interest in an industrial career path and why I am here asking for funding. Am I looking to expand in the future, of course. I will have collateral then just as I do now so that investors do not need put blind faith in me. That's nice. None of this actually addressed the issue(s) I raised.
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2009.06.15 15:17:00 - [17] I forgot to mention this: have you tried getting funding from your corp? Many people head out here on MD 'starting small' to 'establish a reputation', but it's probably better to get a successful business first and then come to MD saying "I've done this and this with money from my corp, now I want to expand and need more money than my corp can provide". FREE! jumpclone service: Forum thread\|Podlog
Jadun	Posted - 2009.06.15 15:21:00 - [18] yo ho I would go to a bank, like Ebank for that kind of isk. best wishes jadun
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.06.15 15:23:00 - [19] The issue you will have here is twofold. 1. As you are new, not accepting an audit is a killer 2. Low sec operations are probably worse than 1. above. That being said you may be able to get around this. If you are willing to lockdown the 1B in BPO's with a third party you should get your funding. But, 6% interest is not the way to go for this business. I suggest an IPO where you share the profits with your shareholders. You take a 40% management fee and the rest is paid out in dividends toi all shareholders. For a low sec operation it is important that you share the success with the shareholders as this can only be assessed as very high risk!! High risk requires potential of high return!
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 15:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Estel Arador I forgot to mention this: have you tried getting funding from your corp? Many people head out here on MD 'starting small' to 'establish a reputation', but it's probably better to get a successful business first and then come to MD saying "I've done this and this with money from my corp, now I want to expand and need more money than my corp can provide". Originally by: Jadun yo ho I would go to a bank, like Ebank for that kind of isk. best wishes jadun Both of these are routes I may go. I haven't done much reading into Ebank yet but perhaps an evemail to one of their reps would be a better considering the shortfall of collateral
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 15:33:00 - [21] Originally by: cosmoray The issue you will have here is twofold. 1. As you are new, not accepting an audit is a killer 2. Low sec operations are probably worse than 1. above. That being said you may be able to get around this. If you are willing to lockdown the 1B in BPO's with a third party you should get your funding. But, 6% interest is not the way to go for this business. I suggest an IPO where you share the profits with your shareholders. You take a 40% management fee and the rest is paid out in dividends toi all shareholders. For a low sec operation it is important that you share the success with the shareholders as this can only be assessed as very high risk!! High risk requires potential of high return! Thank you for the assessment of my situation. I'll give some looking into IPO management. As a fairly new person to the investment scene, I understood bonds better than IPO's and went this route. As the risk is greater than a research facility in high sec, I could look into better profit sharing
eVaLF Delivery Luck	Posted - 2009.06.15 15:44:00 - [22] I will buyout the entire bond pending lockdown of the BPO's and verificaiton of what BPO's. Understand your not actually doing it as a reserve, but soon as you do open it will post the same. ----- POS FUEL DELIVERY & HIGH & LOW SEC FREIGHTER SERVICES
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.15 16:37:00 - [23] I'd be willing to audit for free however keep in mind it would only be a quick verification of assets and location of moons along with spread against profit for those reactions. Having traded in moon goo for quite some time now I could prolly advise as well. Alternatively if you could get in touch with Brock, who ran said business not that long ago he also would be a point of contact. I say location of moons, since just about every known moon composition is known for EVE, even the R64s all the way on down to the R8s. So I could quickly verify your claims about the reaction type.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.15 16:46:00 - [24] Quote: A. The most glaring risk to the community may be my refusal to Audit. From what I have seen on these boards, this is held up as a shining beacon of truth when it isnÆt. Beyond confirming skills, which mostly arenÆt needed in POS operation, they serve no purpose. 1) You are going into a low sec venture and this raises the appropriate cautionary red flags. 2) Second you don't present ANY contingency plan for when (not if, when) your POSes will be attacked. 3) Closely related to 2, I as auditor would check wether you have at least the POS operator skills, else you are a sitting duck. So much for auditing being useless. Moreover auditing reveals an host of other information, beginning from confirming what you claim you are doing already and your NAV. Quote: The BPOÆs do not total the amount I am requesting, falling short by about 200 million. If this is upsetting to investors, I could reduce the bond and substitute my own funds but I like to have a cushion for the unknown (such as a hauler moving a tower getting ganked). You are already pushing it hard with 1.2B for 2 POSes + expenses. What grants you are going to have pertinent defenses with a skeleton budget? What grants your "gifted" modules won't fail to defend your towers like they did to the guy who gave them to you? Quote: I will have a formidable defense on the towers capable of inflicting some significant damage and the towers will be in a system away from trade routes and 0.0 entrances We killed 4 formidable defense POSes in few days, all it takes is to bring more dreads. Average time: 15 to 30 minutes depending on tower size and defense fleet. Moreover you mention you have a small POS, a red flag in low sec as mere BSes can shred it fast enough. My corp mates usually take about 1-2 hours without any dread to kill such a tower, including the fleets they send to defend it. Quote: 1. As you are new, not accepting an audit is a killer 2. Low sec operations are probably worse than 1. above Quoted for truth. I am in a corp able to field > 100 fleets and dreads in a pinch, we totally control "our" 3 systems (we are staging in low sec for now) enough that people can go and mine with Hulks in complete safety. Yet I'd not plant a POS. Enemies are not stupid, we had multiple corporations teaming up to bring even more dreads and BSes we could fend off. Now compare this possibility of losing our POSes despite > 100 people and dreads with the fact you can't even man a defense turret.
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 16:50:00 - [25] I appreciate the offer evalf but this was presented to get a feel for questions. Based on suggestions I'm going to pull down this offer for now to either be reworked into an IPO or loan from Ebank. I feel that my current business model cannot adequately give investors the return needed to justify risk based on my current plan. I have some work to do on this for now. Kazzac, I appreciate the offer and may take you up on it, or pay for it, after I rework the business model. While I still feel that collateral is better than an audit and still question an audits usefulness, I can see that the act of refusing to audit has a much more negative value than the positive of getting one done (it may not mean anything but at least you did it). Thank you to those who raised questions and offered ways in which I might better finance this endeavor.
Bonhomme Carnaval	Posted - 2009.06.15 16:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Saehta I appreciate the offer evalf but this was presented to get a feel for questions. Based on suggestions I'm going to pull down this offer for now to either be reworked into an IPO or loan from Ebank. I feel that my current business model cannot adequately give investors the return needed to justify risk based on my current plan. I have some work to do on this for now. Kazzac, I appreciate the offer and may take you up on it, or pay for it, after I rework the business model. While I still feel that collateral is better than an audit and still question an audits usefulness, I can see that the act of refusing to audit has a much more negative value than the positive of getting one done (it may not mean anything but at least you did it). Thank you to those who raised questions and offered ways in which I might better finance this endeavor. Originally by: 720 Write up something reasonable and ask for an audit. [...] If someone does step up to do an audit, simply state private funding came through. Will you let someone audit you as if you had proceeded with the bond, for the sake of transparency? It's free and you have nothing to lose (supposedly) and everything to gain.
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:04:00 - [27] I dont see a problem with having an audit done but I'm afraid I didnt save the post. Give me a few to add in changes that were made through this discussion and I will repost it for transparency. Kazzac, I'll try and contact you tonight in game about doing a simple audit.
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:17:00 - [28] Original posts as saved by Eve-Search. FREE! jumpclone service: Forum thread\|Podlog
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:19:00 - [29] You shouldn't delete your posts. They can be found on eve-search, and people will wonder why you did it. It looks bad to investors
Saehta Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.15 17:19:00 - [30] Edited by: Saehta on 15/06/2009 17:22:57 Ty I'll add them in. My intention was to just bring it down to be reworked. Appologies for any connotation this might have added.

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