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Orange Faeces
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.15 16:01:00 -
[1]
.... that CCPs efforts to control inflation in EvE Online have been only partly successful. T1 ship prices have remained low due to alloy drops from drone rats, however, everything else has ballooned in price, i.e. T2 ships, GTCs, etc...
Evidence: One year ago 90 day GTCs were 400 mil ISK. Today, 60 day GTCs are 800 mil ISK. Thats 300% inflation (work it out).
Cause: ISK-farming software and AFK miners in empire.
Solutions:
1. Delete local in 0.0 so that isk-farmers are vulnerable.
2. ???
C/D?
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.06.15 16:03:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Orange FaecesDelete local in 0.0 so that isk-farmers are vulnerable.
[/quote
This part is a good idea regardless of the inflation arguement.
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COMMANDER KATHRYN
Gallente
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.15 16:26:00 -
[3]
I agree that isk farmers and afk mining are a problem. But as fas as t2 prices are concerned the problem there is quite simply higher demand with no new sources of moon poop. We have the same moons with the only changes being the ownership of the moons.
T2 prices are however still lower than pre-invention t2 prices.
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Orange Faeces
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.15 16:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: COMMANDER KATHRYN
I agree that isk farmers and afk mining are a problem. But as fas as t2 prices are concerned the problem there is quite simply higher demand with no new sources of moon poop. We have the same moons with the only changes being the ownership of the moons.
The rapid increase in T2 prices can't be the express result of demand changes. The shape of those price curves is clearly the result of Goonswarm holding the high-end moons, instead of BoB. The difference being that BoB has all the BPOs and extensive production infrastructure, whereas goons just dump the stuff on market. They are acting like an extra middle-man, pwning all your stuff. Maybe goons should buy some T2 BPOs and build something for a change.
Even still, overall inflation wont change much. The isk/game-time relationship tells the story.
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Selassie M
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Posted - 2009.06.15 17:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Orange Faeces
.... that CCPs efforts to control inflation in EvE Online have been only partly successful. T1 ship prices have remained low due to alloy drops from drone rats, however, everything else has ballooned in price, i.e. T2 ships, GTCs, etc...
Evidence: One year ago 90 day GTCs were 400 mil ISK. Today, 60 day GTCs are 800 mil ISK. Thats 300% inflation (work it out).
Cause: ISK-farming software and AFK miners in empire.
Solutions:
1. Delete local in 0.0 so that isk-farmers are vulnerable.
2. ???
C/D?
Oh right, let's break horribly all 0.0 warfare to not advantage some afk miners.
Sad troll is sad.
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Orange Faeces
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.15 17:33:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Selassie M
Oh right, let's break horribly all 0.0 warfare to not advantage some afk miners.
Sad troll is sad.
You heard of gate scouts?
Stupid moron is stupid.
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Verys
The Black Ops
Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.15 17:40:00 -
[7]
Deleting local is worse than anything, bots will be build so that they use the directional scanner towards they're advantage spamming that button every 5 seconds. No effort there either.
Attackers would have a way too big advantage over defenders and scouting gates 23/7 is something nobody wants to do. This is still a game, a thing people play for fun not to work next to your day job.
I live deep in 0.0 and low-sec and love to do pvp but I don't think removing local is the right way to go. However if there ever will be a substitute which will not kill intel completely and give a small boost to recons I would be all pro.
I've not seen a good idea yet to replace local so imo it should stay until something good is found.
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Orange Faeces
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.15 17:47:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Verys
I've not seen a good idea yet to replace local so imo it should stay until something good is found.
Although the idea that bots will spam the scanner is a little shaky... currently all they do is perform screen captures on local. It would make them quite a bit more cumbersome to write if spamming the scanner and looking for ship types were so easy. Plus, you can always enter system in a force recon, which is what they are for anyway...
But fair enough... you like having local, then how about delaying local so that fast interceptors could get a tackle in reasonable time?
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Selassie M
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Posted - 2009.06.15 17:50:00 -
[9]
What does delaying local have to do with the inflation in eve?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.15 17:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Orange Faeces
.... that CCPs efforts to control inflation in EvE Online have been only partly successful. T1 ship prices have remained low due to alloy drops from drone rats, however, everything else has ballooned in price, i.e. T2 ships, GTCs, etc...
Evidence: One year ago 90 day GTCs were 400 mil ISK. Today, 60 day GTCs are 800 mil ISK. Thats 300% inflation (work it out).
Cause: ISK-farming software and AFK miners in empire.
Solutions:
1. Delete local in 0.0 so that isk-farmers are vulnerable.
2. ???
C/D?
Totally wrong on the causes.
Causes are:
GTC: Earth economy. With the current economical situation there are more player that want to pay playing time with isk and less than want to pay GTC with RL money to get more isk. So the equilibrium between demand and offer has shifted and price has gone up (less offer, more demand);
T2: the moon minerals exploit has been eradicated, so T2 components prices have gone up and T2 price has gone up (again less offer, same or more demand).
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Orange Faeces
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.15 18:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
T2: the moon minerals exploit has been eradicated, so T2 components prices have gone up and T2 price has gone up (again less offer, same or more demand).
On your first point... maybe so. Worth reviewing.
Your point on the T2 has been debunked several times by the eve-o economist. He already showed that the effect on T2 prices was small on the overall market, even though it made a lot of isk for a small number of people.
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big fluf
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Posted - 2009.06.15 18:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Orange Faeces
.... that CCPs efforts to control inflation in EvE Online have been only partly successful. T1 ship prices have remained low due to alloy drops from drone rats, however, everything else has ballooned in price, i.e. T2 ships, GTCs, etc...
Evidence: One year ago 90 day GTCs were 400 mil ISK. Today, 60 day GTCs are 800 mil ISK. Thats 300% inflation (work it out).
Cause: ISK-farming software and AFK miners in empire.
Solutions:
1. Delete local in 0.0 so that isk-farmers are vulnerable.
2. ???
C/D?
about your assumptions ..
Why is inflation bad?
If it does exist, and it is bad, what makes you think that it is perdominetly because of aKF miners? Would your argument no be for the opisite? - if anything AFK and farmers, are DEFLATING prices.
also your isk/USD dollar confirms this, that isk in in fact in DEFLATION (relitive to the USD). a year ago 1 USD$ was worth 400 isk, now it is worth 800isk, therefore; the value of isk has gone DOWN compared to the USD. |
Orange Faeces
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.15 18:34:00 -
[13]
Originally by: big fluf
a year ago 1 USD$ was worth 400 isk, now it is worth 800isk, therefore; the value of isk has gone DOWN compared to the USD.
You have correctly defined inflation as it applies to the eve economy -- in-game effort buys you less stuff. The fact that out-of-game currency buys you more stuff only benefits people who get their isk from ebay, which is something no one who plays eve seriously should want.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.06.15 19:01:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 15/06/2009 19:04:34
Please don't mix several problems, symptoms and general issues into one problem->solution statement.
T2 prices have gone up amongst other things due to the moon-mineral exploit fix.
Supply of high-end moon materials has decreased, so it was no surprise prices went up.
T1 prices are rather constant because everyone and his dog tries out production sooner or later. Blame reprocessing of mission loot if you want (It's probably not that far off from the truth). And too many keep producing and researching. That's why the competition stays very tough and prices are always very low with a minimal margin.
Whereas mineral prices completely depend on supply and demand, and demand is mostly 'new stuff' (game features which everyone wants to try out) and 'big projects' (titans, outposts, etc. etc.).
Therefore T1 prices vary according to mineral price changes.
Inflation. Well..
Some people say there's no inflation, because of <insert economics blah-blah here>. The usual argument is that the 'typical' symptoms of inflation are missing.
Well..
While EVE is as close to real world economy as a game might get, it's still a game, and the mechanics are different.
People can't end under a bridge. People won't starve due to poverty.
People are risk-averse, but they are not cautious.
There is nothing like basic living requirements.
And luxury goods change almost like the fotm trends do.
Oh, and people invest huge amounts of ISK in 'new stuff' or 'the new money-maker'.
Imho you can't monitor one and the same good and say 'Ok, the price has moved up/moved down - there is inflation / deflation'.
The things people spend their ISK on change. There are no real constants. Ah, maybe PLEXes and GTCs. That's where I agree.
The cause is definitely not only macros or ISK farmers.
One of the big, not to say HUGE, ISK faucets is insurance. Think about all those capital kills in 0.0.
Each and every one of them creates large amounts of ISK.
Then there are also the regular mission runners and 0.0 ratters.
doing something about 0.0 local so people can kill the ratting-isk-farmers would be nice.
But it's not the cure to all the problems mentioned.
It would just be a nice feature, with lots of implications..
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.16 06:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Orange Faeces
Originally by: Venkul Mul
T2: the moon minerals exploit has been eradicated, so T2 components prices have gone up and T2 price has gone up (again less offer, same or more demand).
On your first point... maybe so. Worth reviewing.
Your point on the T2 has been debunked several times by the eve-o economist. He already showed that the effect on T2 prices was small on the overall market, even though it made a lot of isk for a small number of people.
Originally by: Orange Faeces
T1 ship prices have remained low due to alloy drops from drone rats, however, everything else has ballooned in price, i.e. T2 ships, GTCs, etc...
So your evidence is false?
And boy, before speaking, try building a T2 ship and do a little math on the cost.
Compare it to 6 months ago.
Then say that production cost isn't increased due to moon minerals.
Quote:
Your point on the T2 has been debunked several times by the eve-o economist
Last QUEN:
Quote:
In December 2008, a large POS (Player Owned Structure) exploit was revealed and summarily closed. This exploit resulted in an oversupply for several items required for Tech II production. The price of these items subsequently jumped by as much as 100% in the month of January.
Quote:
PRIMARY PRODUCER PRICE INDEX (PPPI)
The primary producer price index contains items that are needed in the first stages of producing goods in EVE. It therefore includes items such as ore, blueprints, alloys, and other primary material.
During Q1 2009, the PPPI rose from 65.8 to 77.7, or a total of 18%. Between January and February the index rose by 14.8% and again between February and March by 2.5%.
The primary reason for this increase was the POS starbase exploit discovered in December 2008.
In January, advanced moon materials increased in price, contributing 10.2% towards the overall increase in the PPPI. Raw moon materials contributed 6.47% due to the lower supply of these materials once the POS exploit bug had been removed. Other categories had a much lower impact.
Datacores, data interfaces, drone compounds and prototypes had a negative effect by -0.03% to -1.02% while processed moon materials contributed 1.3% to the index change in January compared to December 2008.
Yes, the POS exploit had no effect. 
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Dyner
Minmatar
The Three Swords of Light
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Posted - 2009.06.16 08:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Verys
Deleting local is worse than anything, bots will be build so that they use the directional scanner towards they're advantage spamming that button every 5 seconds. No effort there either.
Attackers would have a way too big advantage over defenders and scouting gates 23/7 is something nobody wants to do. This is still a game, a thing people play for fun not to work next to your day job.
I live deep in 0.0 and low-sec and love to do pvp but I don't think removing local is the right way to go. However if there ever will be a substitute which will not kill intel completely and give a small boost to recons I would be all pro.
I've not seen a good idea yet to replace local so imo it should stay until something good is found.
I'm a strong supporter of allowing Cloakers to avoid showing up in local chat (I see others thought of it 90days ago; this person suggested Covert Op Cloaks only).
-or-
They could change local to be the local for that region, least then you won't know exactly were that new person is. |
LiBressa
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Posted - 2009.06.16 12:39:00 -
[17]
To help with inflation etc due to limited supplies of high end moon mins they should implement Moon minerals as item drops from certain exploration sites (i.e a Gurista Dire Production Factory).
Provide another source and then the demand will lesson. |
Lifelongnoob
Caldari
Final Conflict UK
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.06.16 15:59:00 -
[18]
ccp should add more r64 & other HIGH end mineral moons into ALL regions on 0.0
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Tal Kjelthorne
Kjelthorne Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.17 01:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lifelongnoob
ccp should add more r64 & other HIGH end mineral moons into ALL regions on 0.0
This one stands out more than the other suggestions. I can't think of the exact region, but there's an area of freespace known as "the trailer park" of 0.0. This is because you can't get anything higher than I think R16 and no plagioclase/kernite (NO PLAG in freespace? WTH?!) or something to that effect.
Then again, I'm one who thinks the moons should "dry up" and new moons should replace the R32s and R64s every expansion to keep things shaken up, so it's contradictory in nature.
___________
I reserve the right to be wrong.
We the Unwilling
Led by the Unknowing... |
Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
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Posted - 2009.06.17 02:33:00 -
[20]
its actually 200% inflation. 400/90 = 4.44444 and 800/60 = 13.33333
13.33333 / 4.44444 = 3
here we go into how % increases work.
If you increase something by 100% you multiply by 2
if you increase something by 200% you multiply by 3 ... this is where 13.3333 / 4.44444 comes into effect.
... it is 300% more, but 200% inflation (i know, its confusing... try teaching this stuff to 13 year olds)
. |
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Orange Faeces
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.17 17:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ravenal
its actually 200% inflation.
word up.... correct.
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Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.06.17 17:13:00 -
[22]
Comng from wrong side, 0.0 macroratters got small close to none input on inflation. Lvl4 missions on the other side... |
Who''stole''my''eyes
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ravenal
... it is 300% more, but 200% inflation (i know, its confusing... try teaching this stuff to 13 year olds)
300% more would be 300% inflation. To imply 200% inflation you should described it as 300% of the original. |
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