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So, someone just killed a carrier, and almost some dreads with titans

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Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.18 11:37:00 - [31] Originally by: Kung'Fu Tzu Originally by: Furb Killer It shouldnt be nerfed into uselessness, it should be changed into something different. A mobile station thing, a support ship, whatever. But not the ship which is dropped onto the enemy ships, fires doomsdayes, and kills the entire fleet (minus a few specialized anti titan ships which will then quickly dispatched by motherships and titans just warp out). Well how about taking my previous idea with the subsystem and make it to where it's a module that can only be fit in conjunction with said subsystem and the module modifier stacks as additional are added. add a damage multiplier to each module based on skill level as well. so while it the module might reflect 80% at lvl 4 the 80% reflected hits the titan at, maybe, 4x that(5x @ lvl 5). now the titan would have to give serious pause to using it at all when a properly fitted t3 cruiser is around. This would also help give the t3 cruiser a more legitimate role in the game(beyond a subsystem immune to interdiction spheres). Read again what i wrote. Then they still fire their doomsdays and still obliterate an entire fleet, just minus a few t3 cruisers. Which then take untill next DT to kill it. Or you give motherships a role again. They will be the titans support to rep the damage they got from each others doomsdays, kill your t3 ships, and can survive the doomsdays themselves too. So now only super capitals are used to kill an enemy fleet. But even if you would somehow manage to get it balanced with an anti titan ship, the entire idea behind a titan is still stupid. With one push of a button destroying an entire fleet is just not a good idea for a game. Imo like said by ^, changing it into a mobile station is still the best idea.
III LightBringer	Posted - 2009.06.18 11:49:00 - [32] Originally by: Information Broker Originally by: III LightBringer CCP needs to look into nerfing these dumb ships. You realize a battleship can tank 2 maybe 3 DD's if RR BS Gang? An RR BS gang can NOT tank 3 DD's. They can hardly tank 2, and with dual DD tanks they have ** for damage. To tank 2 avatars, maybe, but to have a dual-omni DD tank is very hard. And to the person that had the idea of dread damage bonus to shoot titans, let me tell you this: Once a side manage to get dreads into siege next to a hostile titan, that titan dies unless you have fail-dictor-pilots. Titans have real ty EHP and melt to 10 sieged dreads. Problem is.. if there are 10+ (none ****ed) titans on a field, it becomes damn near impossible to tackle them in the short few seconds they have to stay on grid. MAKE the titan have to BE ON the grid to use the DD. (Let it enter 'siege' for 10 min after a DD and allow it to DD every 10 min maybe) Or just remove the punch from the DD and give other weapons. 250km warp bubble? 250km low-damage kill field? Localized 'POS' shield to shield all ships nearby from damage? I really do not care.. just MAKE them have to stay ON FIELD to be useful.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.06.18 11:59:00 - [33] Okay, on a more serious note, why is this ridiculous? You just took the investment of some 3 trillion isk and blew up a cap ship. I don't see how that's OP. www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.quafeultra.com ò Buy a GTC
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.18 12:36:00 - [34] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Okay, on a more serious note, why is this ridiculous? You just took the investment of some 3 trillion isk and blew up a cap ship. I don't see how that's OP. Prima facie you seem to have a point, they brought 3 trillion and should be able to kill a cap ship with that fast and without problems. But the point is that are doomsdays that kill a whole grid. The carrier was just an example, there could have been 200 carriers, and 1000 sub-capital ships, including many cough Proteus cough on the field and they'd all die in one moment. The carrier only shows the potential.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.06.18 13:00:00 - [35] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Prima facie you seem to have a point, they brought 3 trillion and should be able to kill a cap ship with that fast and without problems. But the point is that are doomsdays that kill a whole grid. The carrier was just an example, there could have been 200 carriers, and 1000 sub-capital ships, including many cough Proteus cough on the field and they'd all die in one moment. The carrier only shows the potential. The thing is though we could be talking in circles about something like this. Remember when Band of Brothers lived in Delve and all happy cuddle bears? People said it was the best space in the game and that because Bob had it, nobody else could get it. Well that has been proved wrong. This titan issue seems to be nothing more than a 'fad'. If they're going to mobilize all 30 of their titans whenever a fleet op comes up, its their business. After they DD though, it only takes one fleet to warp in and knock a couple of them down. The bigger matter here seems to be people do not take the entire picture into account. After you fire your DD off, you are VULNERABLE for what is it, ten minutes? Simple fact of it is any number of large ships is going to do a lot of damage. Whether or not it destroys everything on the grid just means the pilots who are on the grid when the DD activates means time to GTFO, then return to destroy a titan. Pretty simple. If 30 titans show up and start cycling DDs, have backup waiting to pounce. I would go as far to suggest a recon or tanked battleship with a cloak off the grid. When the titans all expend their DDs, warp in drop cyno activate jump bridge and attack the vulnerable titans with your fleet. There are solutions to this. You just can't beat something with a nerf bat "just because it's good". A blob of battleships is going to tear swarm of lesser ships to pieces. Nerf battleships? No.
III LightBringer	Posted - 2009.06.18 13:21:00 - [36] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Prima facie you seem to have a point, they brought 3 trillion and should be able to kill a cap ship with that fast and without problems. But the point is that are doomsdays that kill a whole grid. The carrier was just an example, there could have been 200 carriers, and 1000 sub-capital ships, including many cough Proteus cough on the field and they'd all die in one moment. The carrier only shows the potential. The thing is though we could be talking in circles about something like this. Remember when Band of Brothers lived in Delve and all happy cuddle bears? People said it was the best space in the game and that because Bob had it, nobody else could get it. Well that has been proved wrong. This titan issue seems to be nothing more than a 'fad'. If they're going to mobilize all 30 of their titans whenever a fleet op comes up, its their business. After they DD though, it only takes one fleet to warp in and knock a couple of them down. The bigger matter here seems to be people do not take the entire picture into account. After you fire your DD off, you are VULNERABLE for what is it, ten minutes? Simple fact of it is any number of large ships is going to do a lot of damage. Whether or not it destroys everything on the grid just means the pilots who are on the grid when the DD activates means time to GTFO, then return to destroy a titan. Pretty simple. If 30 titans show up and start cycling DDs, have backup waiting to pounce. I would go as far to suggest a recon or tanked battleship with a cloak off the grid. When the titans all expend their DDs, warp in drop cyno activate jump bridge and attack the vulnerable titans with your fleet. There are solutions to this. You just can't beat something with a nerf bat "just because it's good". A blob of battleships is going to tear swarm of lesser ships to pieces. Nerf battleships? No. There are only one ship 'slightly' able to cloak and fly in to tackle a titan, and that is the HIC. There might be a couple of handfuls of folks able to redo thugs awsome tackle on thulsa doom, but NEVER on a battlefield, only against lone titans. A cap fleet backed by 10 titans + dictor support, there are nothing anyone can do except a very select few enteties. (no, 10 titans from a single alliance will not be all that hard to field in 6-9 months). AAA can do it today. BOB can do it today. PL can probably do it soon. To fight THAT kind of force in a cyno jammed system is "impossible". The ONLY thing you can hope for is to lag out the system so badly that the titans do not dare to log in because they know that if they crash / desync badly, they die... And that is where we are today. Titans make it so that blobs need to be big enough to make the server unstable so the titans do not log in out of fear. Also, if team A sieges 200 dreads, and team B warps out their 30 titans, they can warp back in at 230km, DD, and kill the whole damn fleet... (just saying) because nothing will be able to tackle titans that are aligned and doing multiple DD's...
Hatsumi Kobayashi Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.18 13:36:00 - [37] How many simultaneous doomsdays would it take to instapop those same titans is what I want to know. ______
Xerpex Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.06.18 14:24:00 - [38] Edited by: Xerpex on 18/06/2009 14:24:30 Originally by: III LightBringer Also, if team A sieges 200 dreads, and team B warps out their 30 titans, they can warp back in at 230km, DD, and kill the whole damn fleet... (just saying) because nothing will be able to tackle titans that are aligned and doing multiple DD's... I'd like to quote this because it's gonna happen in the next few months. Also, people saying "titans are expensive so they should be powerful" are ******ed, because titans aren't expensive. The biggest limiting factor in titan production (for an established alliance) is finding a pilot willing to fly a supercap.
Elex Akat Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.18 14:29:00 - [39] I honestly don't know what everyones whining about. The 27 DDs were just fired off as the biggest epeen waving in Eve. It was a grand fireworks display to remind BoB that they ****ing lost. We probably won't see that many Titans together again for a long time.
III LightBringer	Posted - 2009.06.18 14:30:00 - [40] Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi How many simultaneous doomsdays would it take to instapop those same titans is what I want to know. Depends on what rigs you put on it and if you fit for speed or EHP.
III LightBringer	Posted - 2009.06.18 14:37:00 - [41] Originally by: Elex Akat I honestly don't know what everyones whining about. The 27 DDs were just fired off as the biggest epeen waving in Eve. It was a grand fireworks display to remind BoB that they **ing lost. We probably won't see that many Titans together again for a long time. You will see that many titans again the NEXT TIME someone find out it is time to attack something worth defending that belong to 'insert power block name here'. ** the blob machines and force Titans to stay on field, give them some other weapons that DD that are ACTUALLY useful, un-nerf the clone bay that NOONE use and multiply their HP's by 10. Make firing a DD something like a 'siege' attack that makes the damn titan sit there for 5 min, while still being able to use bridges and clonebays. And make them UN BUMPABLE.
Iece Quaan Caldari Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.06.18 14:39:00 - [42] Rampant AOE abilities tend to get nerfed in every PVP mmo. This won't be any different.
Rielhe Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.06.18 20:51:00 - [43] Originally by: Twilight Magester :P just because they can get 27 people in titans, into the same system at the same time, and DD all at once. you think they should be nerfed? think about it. how many alliances were there? how often do 27 titans sit in the same system (afaik this was the first time this happened too) and doomsday all in the same area? what's the recharge timer on a DD again? an hour? :O that means zomg we can pop eleventy billion carriers every hour! i'm pretty sure it's horifically difficult to do this on a regular basis, once it becomes super ultra common, then i'll believe the calls for nerf. but think about it, just because not everyone can afford titans automatically means the guys playing with them have to be nerfed? if i managed to get 5000 battleships to fit large smartbombs and suicide bomb a group of people, you guys would call for a nerf on smartbombs. tl;dr stfu quit whining, it's fine till every alliance has 50 and it becomes a problem. I agree 100%. It is hilarious that there were 27 titans in the same system, and I wish I were there. But just because somebody can afford an awesome weapon doesn't mean that the awesome weapon that someone earned needs to be nerfed
Xerpex Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.06.18 22:07:00 - [44] Originally by: Rielhe Originally by: Twilight Magester :P just because they can get 27 people in titans, into the same system at the same time, and DD all at once. you think they should be nerfed? think about it. how many alliances were there? how often do 27 titans sit in the same system (afaik this was the first time this happened too) and doomsday all in the same area? what's the recharge timer on a DD again? an hour? :O that means zomg we can pop eleventy billion carriers every hour! i'm pretty sure it's horifically difficult to do this on a regular basis, once it becomes super ultra common, then i'll believe the calls for nerf. but think about it, just because not everyone can afford titans automatically means the guys playing with them have to be nerfed? if i managed to get 5000 battleships to fit large smartbombs and suicide bomb a group of people, you guys would call for a nerf on smartbombs. tl;dr stfu quit whining, it's fine till every alliance has 50 and it becomes a problem. I agree 100%. It is hilarious that there were 27 titans in the same system, and I wish I were there. But just because somebody can afford an awesome weapon doesn't mean that the awesome weapon that someone earned needs to be nerfed What about when everybody has this "awesome weapon"? Which is neither expensive nor awesome.
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Assassins	Posted - 2009.06.19 07:32:00 - [45] Titans are fine quit smoking crack BS sized stealth bomber as a counter to a titan hmmmmmmmm could be interesting
Trazis	Posted - 2009.06.20 07:22:00 - [46] Seriously people put the nerf bats away and lets be creative... would you rather new ships that counter stuff or would you just rather ruin other peoples days by making their hard earned ships nothing more then giant paperweights
GBlair Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.06.20 15:34:00 - [47] OH NOES SOMETHING WORKS, NERF IT!
FU22 Mercurialis Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.20 17:04:00 - [48] any nerf isn't allowed to come until pl and friends drop the titans on a hostile capital fleet
Aluin Chaput Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.22 00:52:00 - [49] I'm not going to get into all the sov fixes needed stuff, but don't you get Titans are not, NOT supposed to be able to take down Caps? They are there to nuke the christ out of smaller stuff. Now, maybe that needs changing, but that is their current role.
Mar'Ketalt	Posted - 2009.06.22 19:37:00 - [50] I love how the op is freaking out when 16 DD's kill a badly-fit carrier, after at least a year of 2-3 NC titans DDing entire support fleets... nerf/change titans, but not because you're afraid of getting your capfleet DD'd somehow...after all, who the hell would hotdrop or deploy a capfleet with 10-20 titans moving around in the surrounding sytems? It only takes 2-3 of them to DD your support fleet and let their support clean up your caps with bs.
Johnny Gurkha Digital Fury Corporation	Posted - 2009.06.22 23:32:00 - [51] I personally wouldn't care a **** if all Titan's were removed from the game, but it isn't going to happen... their here to stay - adapt and try and coax the Titan pilots into something less expensive?
JoeBear770	Posted - 2009.06.23 01:02:00 - [52] It sure seems like a lot of work went into popping one carrier. Contrary to the OP's complaint, I have seen carriers downed with much less effort/expense involved.
Herzog Wolfhammer	Posted - 2009.06.23 03:12:00 - [53] I think the real tragedy here is ending up with so many Titans one your case in the first place.
shavada	Posted - 2009.06.23 06:09:00 - [54] Quote: It sure seems like a lot of work went into popping one carrier. Contrary to the OP's complaint, I have seen carriers downed with much less effort/expense involved. That wasn't the point, if there were 1000 carriers on that field they all would have popped. I think getting 16+ titans together in a war situation deserves some overpoweredness tbh, they are expensive, not good for much else and they require a large backup infrastructure, if you are able to coordinate an attack like that vs a real foe you deserve a large kill. Why do people always cry nerf if they find something op? I mean look at history, sometimes something arises that is overpowered, then a massive battle is won because of this and the losing faction adapts their strategy. Since we ourselves can't make ships in this game we must ask CCP. Don't cry for a nerf (like limiting the total damage done by a DD, divided by the amount of ships)! Cry for something to counter it :D What about a specialized ewar ship that can jam a DD? Doesn't make nice gameplay though as you'd be sitting waiting for a titan to jump in that might never come. Meh to be fair I think it's good as is, a battle without strategy is boring, now you need to be on your toes, keep the fleet moving or we get DD'd, while the other side goes "**** I got 50 of 100 in local on my titan and if I DD this lot the other half will come and pwn me" nerf DD and it's bye to that looming threat of a DD that is always there, I like that threat! Ofcourse there are alot of adaptations that EVE still could use but there always will be (like making capitals a different league - unable to hurt BS or smaller ships and unable to die from them - my personal wish :p)
elecind	Posted - 2009.06.23 06:59:00 - [55] Why do we chat about nerfing? BUFF THE Stealth Bombers! or just stop whining about the axiotles floating around in space that can instapop anything. im happy with my destroyer

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