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Veritas Falx	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:12:00 - [1] Let's assume physics, I know its a strech, so E=(1/2)mv^2. Railguns fire the entire shell which weighs .1kg. The activation cost of my 350mm Railgun I loaded with Antimatter L is 16.5. This is with skills, but the overall change is going to remain inside a magnitude of 10. So that is 16,500,000,000J = (1/2) * .1kg * v^2 33,000,000,000J = .1kg * v^2 330,000,000,000 m^2/s^2=v^2 574456.265m/s=v That is about .2% of the speed of light. So that means to hit a target 100km away it takes around .17 seconds. So my point is: Why are missiles so bad compared to real life?
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:16:00 - [2] Wait, cap is in gigajoules?
Grimpak Gallente Clubs and Diamonds	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:16:00 - [3] cleverly hidden whining post ITT?
Veritas Falx	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:19:00 - [4] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Wait, cap is in gigajoules? Haha yah. Quote: cleverly hidden whining post ITT?Laughing Let me put it this way. Last rocket I fired was on my Tristan in '07.
Brodde Dim Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:20:00 - [5] Your question is; Are eve railguns bad compared to real life railguns? Do you have much experience of railguns? What kind of velocity do you get out of your railguns at home?
Updyke AsceNt.	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:27:00 - [6] You forgot that particle blasters pump the plasma into a cyclotron and process the plasma into a bolt that is then fired. This means that electrical energy isn't purely converted into kinetic energy, but also into thermal energy. The the efficiency of this process also neads to be taken into account (heat loss due top rail resistance). In other words: Yes, missles should be boost
Enden Assulu Caldari Blood Money Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:38:00 - [7] What with the spate of posts about how EvE should be more like RL. Science Fiction game, CCP can make **** up its all in the last word of the phrase
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Interstellar eXodus	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Brodde Dim Your question is; Are eve railguns bad compared to real life railguns? Do you have much experience of railguns? What kind of velocity do you get out of your railguns at home? Over 9000?
Veritas Falx	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Updyke You forgot that particle blasters pump the plasma into a cyclotron and process the plasma into a bolt that is then fired. This means that electrical energy isn't purely converted into kinetic energy, but also into thermal energy. The the efficiency of this process also neads to be taken into account (heat loss due top rail resistance). In other words: Yes, missles should be boost My post is clearly about railguns. F*** blasters.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:44:00 - [10] Edited by: Davinel Lulinvega on 17/06/2009 14:46:22 Edited by: Davinel Lulinvega on 17/06/2009 14:43:56 Originally by: Veritas Falx Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Wait, cap is in gigajoules? Haha yah. Dayum . Originally by: Brodde Dim Your question is; Are eve railguns bad compared to real life railguns? Do you have much experience of railguns? What kind of velocity do you get out of your railguns at home? No. His point is that eve rail guns are orders of magnitude more powerful than the most powerful real life ones (so far). And yet missiles are the same or worse. Although if we want to talk about real physics, then the material the projectile is made of would have no significant effects with those kinds of energies involved, so antimatter would be just as effective as iron, or for that matter a banana peel or a coke can. It's all in the name of ~~buffing lasers~~ BALANCE!
Khornne Caldari Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Edited by: Davinel Lulinvega on 17/06/2009 14:46:22 Edited by: Davinel Lulinvega on 17/06/2009 14:43:56 Originally by: Veritas Falx Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Wait, cap is in gigajoules? Haha yah. Dayum . Originally by: Brodde Dim Your question is; Are eve railguns bad compared to real life railguns? Do you have much experience of railguns? What kind of velocity do you get out of your railguns at home? No. His point is that eve rail guns are orders of magnitude more powerful than the most powerful real life ones (so far). And yet missiles are the same or worse. Although if we want to talk about real physics, then the material the projectile is made of would have no significant effects with those kinds of energies involved, so antimatter would be just as effective as iron, or for that matter a banana peel or a coke can. It's all in the name of ~~buffing lasers~~ BALANCE! Antimatter is more effective as it will burstray when it gets in contact with normal matter on the impact.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:50:00 - [12] Originally by: Khornne Antimatter is more effective as it will burstray when it gets in contact with normal matter on the impact. I suppose that was a bad example. Antimatter is the one single thing that would be more effective than other types. My bad. All other normal matter would be equally effective.
Veritas Falx	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:51:00 - [13] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Edited by: Davinel Lulinvega on 17/06/2009 14:46:22 Edited by: Davinel Lulinvega on 17/06/2009 14:43:56 Originally by: Veritas Falx Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Wait, cap is in gigajoules? Haha yah. Dayum . Originally by: Brodde Dim Your question is; Are eve railguns bad compared to real life railguns? Do you have much experience of railguns? What kind of velocity do you get out of your railguns at home? No. His point is that eve rail guns are orders of magnitude more powerful than the most powerful real life ones (so far). And yet missiles are the same or worse. Although if we want to talk about real physics, then the material the projectile is made of would have no significant effects with those kinds of energies involved, so antimatter would be just as effective as iron, or for that matter a banana peel or a coke can. It's all in the name of ~~buffing lasers~~ BALANCE! Quote: The energy per unit mass (9+10^16 J/kg) So even it was 1g of antimatter that is 9*10^13 J. That is the Terajoule range.
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:52:00 - [14] Originally by: Brodde Dim Your question is; Are eve railguns bad compared to real life railguns? Do you have much experience of railguns? What kind of velocity do you get out of your railguns at home? Wish I measured my home made rail gun, but it was destroyed in a sudden fault at one point, and I never botherd making a new one I guess it was more a kin to a coil gun tho, the simple homemade version
deathstriker seven	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:53:00 - [15] Originally by: Brodde Dim Your question is; Are eve railguns bad compared to real life railguns? Do you have much experience of railguns? What kind of velocity do you get out of your railguns at home? Existing railguns can fire a projectile ect at over 7 times the speed of sound and that is ridiculously slow compared to the systems used in eve. The speed of sound is 343ms x 7 = 2380ms or 1236km per hour if you prefer, so a projectile fired from a existing railgun firing at eves max sniper range of 249km would take around 12 mins to reach the target......and you think you have tracking problems now....
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.17 14:56:00 - [16] As for antimatter, 0.1kg of it makes the sun look pale if it is annailated against the proper matter :P. But I agree, missiles compared to todays missiles are kind of wierd.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:02:00 - [17] Stop talking about me screwing up with antimatter . If the antimatter was remotely realistic this whole discussion would be moot anyway. Also, why don't projectiles have an antimatter ammo?
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:08:00 - [18] A sidewinder missile only flies about 850 m/s (Mach 2.5). A sparrow missile (the sidewinders larger brother) gets about 1,182 m/s Your standard light missile achieves 3,750 m/s (without bonuses). Rough math makes that about 3x the flight speed of a RL missile. Define bad? (Unless of course all that crap about projectile speed was just obfuscation for a missile whine.)
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:17:00 - [19] Originally by: deathstriker seven The speed of sound is 343ms x 7 = 2380ms or 1236km per hour if you prefer, so a projectile fired from a existing railgun firing at eves max sniper range of 249km would take around 12 mins to reach the target......and you think you have tracking problems now.... Speed of sound is indeed 343m/s, times 7 is 2,401m/s. Don't know how you converted it to to km/h, but you're supposed to mulitiply it by 3.6 (times 3600 for the hour, divide by 1000 for the kilometer). That makes 8,643,6 km/h. Which gives us 1.7 minute to travel 249km. Still a lot more than EVE, but definately not 12 minutes.
deathstriker seven	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Washell Olivaw Originally by: deathstriker seven The speed of sound is 343ms x 7 = 2380ms or 1236km per hour if you prefer, so a projectile fired from a existing railgun firing at eves max sniper range of 249km would take around 12 mins to reach the target......and you think you have tracking problems now.... Speed of sound is indeed 343m/s, times 7 is 2,401m/s. Don't know how you converted it to to km/h, but you're supposed to mulitiply it by 3.6 (times 3600 for the hour, divide by 1000 for the kilometer). That makes 8,643,6 km/h. Which gives us 1.7 minute to travel 249km. Still a lot more than EVE, but definately not 12 minutes. 1236KMH is the speed of sound but i forgot to multiply it by 7..so yea when you do that it takes 1.7 mins to travel 249km.
Mish'Kala Minmatar FarSight Location and Recovery Services	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:20:00 - [21] I think its the Foofle Valve thats gone luv. See, when that goes you dont get the presure build up in the Trunion Groove and that stops the Frotting Plate engaging with the flange on the Snatch Membrane. Once you yet that sorted im sure that all your troubles will be over.
Vasundhara	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Khornne Antimatter is more effective as it will burstray when it gets in contact with normal matter on the impact. I only feel safe posting this on a trash alt, but honestly I haven't actually been putting any Antimatter into the charges I sell, just normal mins.
Poses	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:30:00 - [23] Originally by: deathstriker seven Originally by: Washell Olivaw Originally by: deathstriker seven The speed of sound is 343ms x 7 = 2380ms or 1236km per hour if you prefer, so a projectile fired from a existing railgun firing at eves max sniper range of 249km would take around 12 mins to reach the target......and you think you have tracking problems now.... Speed of sound is indeed 343m/s, times 7 is 2,401m/s. Don't know how you converted it to to km/h, but you're supposed to mulitiply it by 3.6 (times 3600 for the hour, divide by 1000 for the kilometer). That makes 8,643,6 km/h. Which gives us 1.7 minute to travel 249km. Still a lot more than EVE, but definately not 12 minutes. 1236KMH is the speed of sound but i forgot to multiply it by 7..so yea when you do that it takes 1.7 mins to travel 249km. isn't speed of sound inversely proportional to the density of the fluid its traveling through? therefor isn't your whole debate wrong because we don't know how fast modern day missiles can go in a vacuum?
badbush	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:34:00 - [24] Originally by: deathstriker seven The speed of sound is 343ms x 7 = 2380ms or 1236km per hour if you prefer Not in space it isn't......in fact, even on Earth, it isn't constant. Earth-bound physics are not the same as zero-G physics (and especially "pretend" zero-g physics - it's a game, after all!). Real life "ammo" slows down due to friction caused by air, and decline of kinetic energy over time and distance; they drop due to gravity. In space, momentum (and indeed, acceleration and KE) are maintained much better, due mainly to the absence of anything in space to slow it down. Still, and interesting point. Makes me wonder why no-one ever gets wiped out by meteorites!
Poses	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:37:00 - [25] Originally by: badbush Originally by: deathstriker seven The speed of sound is 343ms x 7 = 2380ms or 1236km per hour if you prefer Not in space it isn't......in fact, even on Earth, it isn't constant. Earth-bound physics are not the same as zero-G physics (and especially "pretend" zero-g physics - it's a game, after all!). Real life "ammo" slows down due to friction caused by air, and decline of kinetic energy over time and distance; they drop due to gravity. In space, momentum (and indeed, acceleration and KE) are maintained much better, due mainly to the absence of anything in space to slow it down. Still, and interesting point. Makes me wonder why no-one ever gets wiped out by meteorites! hahahah beat you to it
Knabe 4 Marketeers	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:40:00 - [26] did anyone take into account that there is no gravity or air in space to hinder the true preformance of missiles or projectiles? theres something else for you to argue about...lol
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:46:00 - [27] Originally by: De'Veldrin A sidewinder missile only flies about 850 m/s (Mach 2.5). A sparrow missile (the sidewinders larger brother) gets about 1,182 m/s Your standard light missile achieves 3,750 m/s (without bonuses). Rough math makes that about 3x the flight speed of a RL missile. Define bad? (Unless of course all that crap about projectile speed was just obfuscation for a missile whine.) Atmospheric flight for thoose two missiles. Besideds they are hardly the latest edge in missile tech anyways. In space where you got constant acceleration, you can achive velocities far greater fairly quick. But EVE operates withour acceleration :P
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:47:00 - [28] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Atmospheric flight for thoose two missiles. Besideds they are hardly the latest edge in missile tech anyways. In space where you got constant acceleration, you can achive velocities far greater fairly quick. But EVE operates withour acceleration :P Actually missiles do have to accelerate. That's why they get slightly under the stated range in eft.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:53:00 - [29] Originally by: Knabe did anyone take into account that there is no gravity or air in space to hinder the true preformance of missiles or projectiles? theres something else for you to argue about...lol "No gravity"??? lol?? Actually, there is gravity in space, its about the only force really affecting you out there you know. Its a common mistake you made, so I can overlook it since knowledge of physics seems to be weak among thoose who do not spesifically study it (no offence), but in space there is no reistance to oppose the gravitational pull so it seems like you are free, but thats is what free fall really is, only gravity exerting its force on you.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:55:00 - [30] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Atmospheric flight for thoose two missiles. Besideds they are hardly the latest edge in missile tech anyways. In space where you got constant acceleration, you can achive velocities far greater fairly quick. But EVE operates withour acceleration :P Actually missiles do have to accelerate. That's why they get slightly under the stated range in eft. Yes, but its not really acceleration as much as a shabby game mechanic. Had it been true acceleration it would have accelerated as long as the engine burned and just gained more and more speed. Same for ships. So EVE realy do not have acceleration. Only a shabby game mechanic named the same as it.

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