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SleepingJocko	Posted - 2009.06.17 22:01:00 - [1] Hi, I was wondering what people's opinions are on the best rig combination for CNR? I currently use 3 Rigor 1 rigs however I have just bought a Rigor 2 rig. Should I drop a Rigor 1 for a Flare??
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2009.06.17 22:39:00 - [2] Edited by: Gavin DeVries on 17/06/2009 22:38:50 You're thinking of 1x Rigor II, 1x Rigor I, and something else? ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
SleepingJocko	Posted - 2009.06.17 22:41:00 - [3] Yeah. I was wondering whether that something else would be a Flare Catalyst??
GGjita	Posted - 2009.06.18 01:02:00 - [4] Don't go with the flare in my testing it is very very rarely useful whereas the rigor is always useful. Very few things in L4's actually go fast enough to make the flare rig useful. Also if you get your explosion radius smaller then the ship you are shooting at then it starts having the exact same effects that a flare rig would have.
abrasive soap Balls Deep Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.18 01:32:00 - [5] 3 CORE DEFENSE FIELD EXTENDERS you want a large buffer tank for pvp so these accomplish the job
GGjita	Posted - 2009.06.18 01:36:00 - [6] Originally by: abrasive soap 3 CORE DEFENSE FIELD EXTENDERS you want a large buffer tank for pvp so these accomplish the job since he is talking about a T2 rig and the CNR, i'm pretty sure he doing pve and not pvp
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.18 01:36:00 - [7] Originally by: GGjita Don't go with the flare in my testing it is very very rarely useful whereas the rigor is always useful. Very few things in L4's actually go fast enough to make the flare rig useful. Also if you get your explosion radius smaller then the ship you are shooting at then it starts having the exact same effects that a flare rig would have. I thought the new missile formula used the min of the sig reduction and the speed reduction?
GGjita	Posted - 2009.06.18 01:41:00 - [8] Edited by: GGjita on 18/06/2009 01:42:01 the formula uses both but the thing is that if say your missile has an explosion radius of 100 and the ship you are shooting has radius of 200. Then if the ship is not moving you will do full damage. Now look at movement. Lets say that the ship is moving at 200 m/s and your missile has a explosion velocity of 100 m/s. Even though the ship is moving faster than the explosion radius it doesn't matter since if we go back to the sig radius the ship is 200m and the missile is 100 m. So even though the explosion velocity is not fast enough to keep up with the ship, the fact that the missiles explsion will be inside the ship longer means you should still do full damage. Edit: I'm not to sure if will be able to understand what i just said, maybe someone that commands english a little better than me could explain it better.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.18 01:48:00 - [9] Originally by: GGjita Edited by: GGjita on 18/06/2009 01:42:01 the formula uses both but the thing is that if say your missile has an explosion radius of 100 and the ship you are shooting has radius of 200. Then if the ship is not moving you will do full damage. Now look at movement. Lets say that the ship is moving at 200 m/s and your missile has a explosion velocity of 100 m/s. Even though the ship is moving faster than the explosion radius it doesn't matter since if we go back to the sig radius the ship is 200m and the missile is 100 m. So even though the explosion velocity is not fast enough to keep up with the ship, the fact that the missiles explsion will be inside the ship longer means you should still do full damage. Edit: I'm not to sure if will be able to understand what i just said, maybe someone that commands english a little better than me could explain it better. I get what you're saying from a realistic point of view, I'm just saying that the missile damage formula I've seen doesn't behave that way: Originally by: Stafen Damage = Base_Damage * MIN(MIN(sig/Er,1) , (Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(log(drf) / log(5.5)) ) Where sig = ship's signature vel = ship's velocity Er = Explosion Radius of missile Ev = Explosion Velocity of missile drf = Damage Reduction Factor of missile from here. In this formula an extra large sig radius cannot make up for extremely high speed and vice versa. The obvious way to test this would be to shoot at a target you barely hit for full damage and then shoot at the same target with mwd on.
GGjita	Posted - 2009.06.18 01:53:00 - [10] You have a point. I have run with the 2x rigor and a flare though, and i seem to hit better with the 3x rigor. I think it is because the ships just don't move fast enough in L4's. Now for doing L5's (i have not done them but have read a little about it) i understand that there are a good number of ships that regularly go faster than 500m/s and in this situation it very well may have a huge impact.

Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.18 01:57:00 - [11] Originally by: GGjita I think it is because the ships just don't move fast enough in L4's. That's probably it. If I ever get bored enough to run l4s again I'll do some tests... Can't promise anything though.
Sturmwolke Genyosha Legion	Posted - 2009.06.18 05:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Originally by: GGjita I think it is because the ships just don't move fast enough in L4's. That's probably it. If I ever get bored enough to run l4s again I'll do some tests... Can't promise anything though. Check for post #21 here. Flare rigs are almost useless in missions for due to the fact that Rigor performs equivalently or better when target is webbed. The misile damage formula is heavily weighted towards sig radius rather than velocity. The benefit of a Flare rig is only apparent when you are using torpedos, not cruise missiles.
SleepingJocko	Posted - 2009.06.18 08:07:00 - [13] Hi guys. Thanks for the input. I will try the different combinations tonight using the same lvl4 mission if possible. I will let you know how I got on. Cheers
ScottyDosn'tKnow Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.18 10:50:00 - [14] Sorry to jump onto this thread but its the same question in a different scenerio: I use cnr ratting in 0.0 vs angels. I typically only take out the battleships so none of what is listed earlier really applies. I currently have a bay loading accelerator rig and the rig that increases damage (I'm sorry I'm at work so not sure which one that is) Does this sound good or would you have a different suggestion. I have no problems with my tank so I am only looking at damage rigs.
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.06.18 11:05:00 - [15] You either want 2 rigors and a ccc or 3 rigors Its depends on if you need the cap, on how good your missiles skills are and whether or not you use a painter. Dont fit a flare.
GGjita	Posted - 2009.06.18 11:18:00 - [16] Originally by: ScottyDosn'tKnow Sorry to jump onto this thread but its the same question in a different scenerio: I use cnr ratting in 0.0 vs angels. I typically only take out the battleships so none of what is listed earlier really applies. I currently have a bay loading accelerator rig and the rig that increases damage (I'm sorry I'm at work so not sure which one that is) Does this sound good or would you have a different suggestion. I have no problems with my tank so I am only looking at damage rigs. the damage and rof rigs are generally considered to be useless. This is because they receive a stacking penalty from having BCU on your ship. So if you run the standard 3 BCU setup you are going to get a very very negligible increase.
SleepingJocko	Posted - 2009.06.18 11:26:00 - [17] Just to let you know, I run pretty much cap stable and therefore don't have the need to fit CCC rigs. However, because of this my mids are full and I don't have the space for a TP. I mission mainly against Angels and the odd drone mission. I have a different ship for everything else. Cheers
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released	Posted - 2009.06.18 11:40:00 - [18] Originally by: GGjita Originally by: abrasive soap 3 CORE DEFENSE FIELD EXTENDERS you want a large buffer tank for pvp so these accomplish the job since he is talking about a T2 rig and the CNR, i'm pretty sure he doing pve and not pvp I use them on my level 4 mission runner.
GGjita	Posted - 2009.06.18 11:43:00 - [19] Edited by: GGjita on 18/06/2009 11:43:23 Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Originally by: GGjita Originally by: abrasive soap 3 CORE DEFENSE FIELD EXTENDERS you want a large buffer tank for pvp so these accomplish the job since he is talking about a T2 rig and the CNR, i'm pretty sure he doing pve and not pvp I use them on my level 4 mission runner. If you are being serious, please stop playing eve. Extenders in missions? really...
Vaeliel Gallente Slander Acquisitions	Posted - 2009.06.18 19:39:00 - [20] Originally by: abrasive soap 3 CORE DEFENSE FIELD EXTENDERS you want a large buffer tank for pvp so these accomplish the job I lol'd irl. The rest of the people here who didn't catch the sarcastic genius in this post are fsckn reetards.

Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.06.19 10:34:00 - [21] Originally by: SleepingJocko Hi, I was wondering what people's opinions are on the best rig combination for CNR? I currently use 3 Rigor 1 rigs however I have just bought a Rigor 2 rig. Should I drop a Rigor 1 for a Flare?? I assume you are using cruise missiles. If you do then yes 3x Rigor combination is better than 2x Rigor 1x Flare on CNR (I think the numbers might even be present in that Stefan's thread linked in one of the above posts). If able to make room in your fit would suggest even adding PWNAGE painter in there. It's ofc so in PVE, as mission rats do not sport hi enough speeds for flare to become more effective than rigor. If you use torpedoes then usual combination is 2x flight speed 1x flight time rigs and flight speed hardwire (they both go into same slot unfortunately so can't do speed + time hardwires).
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released	Posted - 2009.06.19 11:55:00 - [22] Originally by: GGjita Edited by: GGjita on 18/06/2009 11:43:23 Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Originally by: GGjita Originally by: abrasive soap 3 CORE DEFENSE FIELD EXTENDERS you want a large buffer tank for pvp so these accomplish the job since he is talking about a T2 rig and the CNR, i'm pretty sure he doing pve and not pvp I use them on my level 4 mission runner. If you are being serious, please stop playing eve. Extenders in missions? really... Why? I hardly ever have to boost and I'd put any amount of ISK on the fact I will complete any level 4 I do almost as fast or probably faster than you.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.19 13:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Why? I hardly ever have to boost and I'd put any amount of ISK on the fact I will complete any level 4 I do almost as fast or probably faster than you. doubt it, but the number of boosts hardly has anything to do with completion time anyways.


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