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Teach me about Blackops ships.....

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Descrambled Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.06.18 17:32:00 - [1] I think EVE pvp is like crack dealers & cops. you know, drug dealers put a lookout on the street corner to watch out for the popo. That is how EVE gang pvp is- hard to get the drop on someone. And if you get the blocked in to a system, you pray they dont logout So I want to get the drop on busters that ss+logout. I can understand if you are a farmer/pve'er but unfortunately gangs do it too. Fortunately CCP gave us Black ops ships for such situations right? how viable is it to use blackops to get a surpise jump in on a gang and then just pillage? The thought of this pillage just gets me excited! How viable is my plan? silly? Not viable? Gallente Blackops ship any good? I humbly appeal to my more experienced and wise pkers here
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.18 17:35:00 - [2] I think you mean covops not blackops. Blackops would be utterly useless for that. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Descrambled Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.06.18 17:39:00 - [3] I was looking at SiN blackops ship in EVEMon: Hull: Dominix Class Role: Black Ops Black Ops battleships are designed for infiltration and espionage behind enemy lines. With the use of a short-range jump drive and a portal generator, they are capable of making a special type of jump portal usable only by covert ops vessels. This enables them to stealthily plant reconnaissance and espionage forces in enemy territory. For the final word in clandestine maneuvers, look no further.
Nuzzy Futs Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2009.06.18 17:42:00 - [4] Originally by: Descrambled I was looking at SiN blackops ship in EVEMon: Hull: Dominix Class Role: Black Ops Black Ops battleships are designed for infiltration and espionage behind enemy lines. With the use of a short-range jump drive and a portal generator, they are capable of making a special type of jump portal usable only by covert ops vessels. This enables them to stealthily plant reconnaissance and espionage forces in enemy territory. For the final word in clandestine maneuvers, look no further. a great description and a concept for a ship - destroyed by local be immediate and used as an intelligence tool. Awww Nuts.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.18 17:51:00 - [5] Originally by: Descrambled I was looking at SiN blackops ship in EVEMon: Hull: Dominix Class Role: Black Ops Black Ops battleships are designed for infiltration and espionage behind enemy lines. With the use of a short-range jump drive and a portal generator, they are capable of making a special type of jump portal usable only by covert ops vessels. This enables them to stealthily plant reconnaissance and espionage forces in enemy territory. For the final word in clandestine maneuvers, look no further. This description is actually fairly accurate but has absolutely nothing with what you want to do. They are for jumping into cynojammed systems and bridging covops and recons around. Or just stealth ganking. You want a ship that is fast, good at scanning people in safes, and can get warpin on them while cloaked. A covops does all of those. A blackops does none.
Descrambled Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.06.18 18:03:00 - [6] What I want to do is organize a gang and stealth this gang into the location where our enemies are. so basically, the plan would be to send in 1 covops, scan down our enemies in their safes, then jump in rest of gang via blackops to get the drop on them Basically, just tired of seeing gangs run when the odds get evened up a bit. Wanted a way to bypass their Intel sounds like this not going to happen due to immediate local. They'll see local spike and likely log I guess :(
Marcus Gideon Gallente The NightClub	Posted - 2009.06.18 18:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Descrambled What I want to do is organize a gang and stealth this gang into the location where our enemies are. so basically, the plan would be to send in 1 covops, scan down our enemies in their safes, then jump in rest of gang via blackops to get the drop on them Basically, just tired of seeing gangs run when the odds get evened up a bit. Wanted a way to bypass their Intel sounds like this not going to happen due to immediate local. They'll see local spike and likely log I guess :( What you want... is sneaky pwnage. A noble goal. What will happen... CovOps sneaks in, hopefully undetected or nearly so. It warps off to some remote location (deep safe) and sets up a Covert Cyno. A typical Cyno would be visible to all and give away your impending fleet arrival. Black Ops locks onto the Covert Cyno, and sends a fleet of ships through. Unfortunately, only covert ships can use it. So that means your fleet will consist of CovOps scouts, Stealth Bombers, Recons, Blockade Runners (extra ammo maybe?) and T3 cruisers. Now you have silently moved a covert fleet into the system... Hopefully you can mount a successful strike against the gangs using a bunch of rather thin and weak (by comparison) ships against an organized group of PvP gankers.
Footoo Rama	Posted - 2009.06.18 19:22:00 - [8] Good point, the only point to black ops, is that you could covert jump it in. But even then the cost for using one as a PvP BS is just to high. Sure you could get a nice fleet back behind enemy lines the 1 billion price tag is just to high Otherwise the strengths of BS do not match well to the ability to cov ops cloak, the primary reason for having a black ops. The force recons cost 1/10 the price and can do pretty much the same thing, and can actually protect themselves better with thier ECM bonues and speed. Example the Sin... vs Arazu This would blow as a PvP BS, only 4 turrets with the same mods as a Domi means not alot of dps, you could mwd blasterboat it, but you would lose almost any slugfest to t1 BS, and it would have issues with BC's and smaller becuase of the large turrets. I would bet the arazu has pretty close DPS to the sin, with the addition of being alot faster harder to hit, and evil tackling ability, with the same drone damage (granted the Domi could fit ogre II's) But in most fights the Hammerhead II's will be better, as I doubt a Sin would jump a solo BS, whereas an Arazu might jump a solo BC. The difference comes into play with the gallante force recons ability tackle indefinitely with the ability to disrupt from 40km, and then web, scram. Arazu's can take any ships targeting range under 3km and kite from 10km. The sin, cannot effectively do this and will take damage while tackling. Arazu's can pick fights better and disenguge, while the Sin cannot retreat out from a fight.
Marcus Gideon Gallente The NightClub	Posted - 2009.06.18 19:25:00 - [9] Which is why you'd use the Sin to get everyone into the system. Then either you take it along as well, and leave it cloaked in the deep safe in case anyone wants a ride home... Or you just leave it where the fleet staged from, and let the rest of them go fight it out. No sense in ever taking the Sin itself into combat.
Trustworthy Joe	Posted - 2009.06.18 19:36:00 - [10] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Which is why you'd use the Sin to get everyone into the system. Then either you take it along as well, and leave it cloaked in the deep safe in case anyone wants a ride home... Or you just leave it where the fleet staged from, and let the rest of them go fight it out. No sense in ever taking the Sin itself into combat. exactly. i flew a redeemer for a time, and it was appallingly bad at tanking. i would bring it into a fight, and would almost have to immediatley warp out. the last time i used it was shortly after the boost to cov. cyno's/SB's, and here was my gang: 5x stealth bomber 1x blockade runner (fuel ONLY, the cargo bay sucks.) 1x arazu 1x falcon 1x me. during that time, i knew that i would bring nothing worthwhile to the fight. i had sub-par DPS, a sub-par tank (although we had a falcon) and i was the ticket out. so i sat cloaked the whole time. please dont fight with these ships, or you will be very sad
Marcus Gideon Gallente The NightClub	Posted - 2009.06.18 19:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Trustworthy Joe 1x blockade runner (fuel ONLY, the cargo bay sucks.) Fuel! I knew there was a reason to bring them!
Footoo Rama	Posted - 2009.06.18 20:18:00 - [12] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Which is why you'd use the Sin to get everyone into the system. Then either you take it along as well, and leave it cloaked in the deep safe in case anyone wants a ride home... Or you just leave it where the fleet staged from, and let the rest of them go fight it out. No sense in ever taking the Sin itself into combat. True but an Arazu can fit a covert ops cyn generator too... I have not played with this build, but I bet it would still be more effective in a fight then a sin even with it fitted.
Marcus Gideon Gallente The NightClub	Posted - 2009.06.18 20:30:00 - [13] Arazu can fit a Cyno, sure. But the Cyno isn't what does the moving of ships. It's just the beacon to lock onto. The Sin fits a Covert Jump Portal Generator, which is used to get the fleet from A to B. The Sin would be like a Jump Gate, and the Arazu/Helios with the Covert Cyno is the destination.
Descrambled Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.06.18 20:41:00 - [14] Thanks for responses... So it sounds like I can portal all of our cloakies to the destination point then dock the SiN and go grab an Arazu. Only issue is that the enemy will be dead before I get there... Not to mention I might get ganked on the way there This will make me sad because I like getting killmails Just sounds like I'd be spending a whole 1 billion just to be a jump bridge.... Can black ops at least warp cloaked? Guess I'd be silly for trying to jump in on a killmail though. Risk a billion to just kill 1 guy
Descrambled Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.06.18 20:43:00 - [15] Wait- I am losing sight of my original question. It sounds like at least I can get my fleet/gang to the destination and we get these busters before they can finish logging out or whatever.
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.18 20:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Descrambled Can black ops at least warp cloaked? No. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Descrambled Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.06.18 21:19:00 - [17] oh snap it cant warp cloaked! ugh..... I would have thought it would at least get some bonus to guns. It's like a Domi with a jump drive :(
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.18 21:23:00 - [18] Originally by: Descrambled oh snap it cant warp cloaked! ugh..... I would have thought it would at least get some bonus to guns. It's like a Domi with a jump drive :( It can move slightly faster cloaked...but other than that, yeah.
Footoo Rama	Posted - 2009.06.19 18:33:00 - [19] Originally by: Descrambled oh snap it cant warp cloaked! ugh..... I would have thought it would at least get some bonus to guns. It's like a Domi with a jump drive :( Oh wow I never noticed blackops cannot fit covert ops cloaks. WTF? Gimped damage domi that can create covert ops jump points... Wow...
Dray Caldari Culture Breach	Posted - 2009.06.19 18:41:00 - [20] The most expensive gank toys in game, and at the current cost gank is all you want to do with them, you can get good dps from the redeemer but it isnt cheap and demands a lot of sp's in the right areas.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Corp 1 Allstars	Posted - 2009.06.19 18:58:00 - [21] As I said before the other thread, it's a stealth base of operations with movement capabilities and light defenses, not a marauder with high sensor strength.
Jeffry Sinclair	Posted - 2009.06.19 19:44:00 - [22] Linkagesneaky gank gangs r fun x 1000
Descrambled Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.06.19 20:48:00 - [23] Thanks for responses that killmail is inspiring. ugh 731 million is a lot of ISK for me atm guess I'll need to start saving. By the time BS V is done who knows....
Warrio GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.06.19 23:18:00 - [24] Originally by: Descrambled pkers If you ever say that again I'll hunt you down and make whoopee on your face (ingame). sXe
Descrambled Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.06.19 23:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Warrio Originally by: Descrambled pkers If you ever say that again I'll hunt you down and make whoopee on your face (ingame). pkers
Jimmy Rye	Posted - 2009.06.20 02:22:00 - [26] Edited by: Jimmy Rye on 20/06/2009 02:23:56 Edited by: Jimmy Rye on 20/06/2009 02:22:25 http://www.dark.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3537325 This is hows it done!
ThaDollaGenerale The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.06.20 03:44:00 - [27] What no one in this thread seems to realize though that the place where blackops could shine, 0.0, instead fails spectacularly. The reason being that when you bridge that 20 man gang of stealth bombers in, the target in local knows immediately because of local. Remove local and blackops is actually worthwhile. While local is used as an information gathering tool, blackops are completely uselss.
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.06.20 05:02:00 - [28] Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale What no one in this thread seems to realize though that the place where blackops could shine, 0.0, instead fails spectacularly. The reason being that when you bridge that 20 man gang of stealth bombers in, the target in local knows immediately because of local. Remove local and blackops is actually worthwhile. While local is used as an information gathering tool, blackops are completely uselss. Hyperbole. Just learn how to use your ships and you'll be fine.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.06.20 10:04:00 - [29] Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale What no one in this thread seems to realize though that the place where blackops could shine, 0.0, instead fails spectacularly. The reason being that when you bridge that 20 man gang of stealth bombers in, the target in local knows immediately because of local. Remove local and blackops is actually worthwhile. While local is used as an information gathering tool, blackops are completely uselss. Hint: it's usually a good idea to tackle the target *before* opening the cyno. It doesn't do the target much good to see local spike when they've been tackled by your cyno Rapier and a gang of 20 bombers just appeared next to them. -----------
Forumena Altair	Posted - 2009.06.20 11:23:00 - [30] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale What no one in this thread seems to realize though that the place where blackops could shine, 0.0, instead fails spectacularly. The reason being that when you bridge that 20 man gang of stealth bombers in, the target in local knows immediately because of local. Remove local and blackops is actually worthwhile. While local is used as an information gathering tool, blackops are completely uselss. Hint: it's usually a good idea to tackle the target *before* opening the cyno. It doesn't do the target much good to see local spike when they've been tackled by your cyno Rapier and a gang of 20 bombers just appeared next to them. This

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