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Future Mutant	Posted - 2009.06.23 07:15:00 - [31] Originally by: Nyveg Ok it seems 9/10 people can scan me out of deadspace-missions either lvl 1 or 4 <20secs, no drones. Is this what you want? Sure it is not what I want - change it. I like the part where he thinks we care what he wants
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit	Posted - 2009.06.23 19:49:00 - [32] Exploration in low sec is relatively simple if you know which places are relatively safe. Most people in low sec are not dedicated mission or exploration probers. Of course it could also be rival mission runners who probe you out wanting to keep the spoils for themselves.
Reaver Leader Earned In Blood	Posted - 2009.06.23 20:23:00 - [33] Damn another thread with tears
Herzog Wolfhammer	Posted - 2009.06.23 21:00:00 - [34] Originally by: King Rothgar In regards to deadspace, it used to mask a ships signature radius thus making ships harder to find. However they trashed that when they introduced the current system. Now deadspace offers no protection over any other chunk of space from probes. The old trick of stacking ECCM into your mids still works however. The ease of finding a ship is proportional to sig radius/sensor strength. So lowering your sig radius or increasing your sensor strength makes it harder to find you. I once saw a "stealth apoc" that was basically impossible to probe cause he had 3-4x ECCM's in his mids. The disadvantage of that is I'm sure he had a hell of a time surviving the mission rats. ECCM modules in the mids? Could you please clarify that? Looking up various ECCM modules does not appear to reduce sig rad. Is that passive or active? Additional searches on this aspect don't show anything conclusive
Elric Redeye Ex Coelis	Posted - 2009.06.23 21:17:00 - [35] I don't have a link for you but there was a decent analysis posted that showed how your Sensor Strength reduces the chance of being probed. Yoour total probable signal is something like Signature Radius divided by Sensor Strength. Therefore ECCM modules make a difference. IIRC, you have to get that divided total pretty low (1.5 to 1.1) before you are safe from expert probing, assuming you don't use any drones.
Ashmira Wintereyes Caldari Free Spirits	Posted - 2009.06.24 08:45:00 - [36] Originally by: King Rothgar Originally by: Ashmira Wintereyes Thanks for the explanation, however does this scanning also work on cloaked ships or is this just for the regular ships? I also havent managed/tried to get a warplock on an object when i place my probes at such large distances, what kind of combat probes do you use for that ? You still can't probe out anyone who is cloaked. You can however probe while cloaked though you must decloak to launch the probes. Also, it's true you can probe out someone with just astrometrics 1. I know a guy who does that, but it takes him ages to find anything. The skills make it faster, but it's basically always possible to find someone eventually even at lvl1 skill. I think this is a good thing. My previous post was made from the standpoint of my probing alt as that character's skills stand today. Said alt has a fully faction fitted anathema with cov ops 5 and all other probing skills at 4 or 5. I also get plenty of practice and that speeds it up too. Thanks, then it's either a bug from my client sayinh the covops cloak was on while it actually wasnt (was blinking green all the time) or the other buzzard made a one in a billion luck shot by placing an inflight BM only 200km from where is was at that time! I will convo the player as i've seen him regulary in my homesystem and ask if he tracked me down, or that it was just coincidence he landed on my grid, however some people might always lie and say they scanned me down to boost some ego though
King Rothgar Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.06.24 09:00:00 - [37] Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer ECCM modules in the mids? Could you please clarify that? Looking up various ECCM modules does not appear to reduce sig rad. Is that passive or active? Additional searches on this aspect don't show anything conclusive Umm, you got turned around on it I think. ECCM does not reduce sig radius, it increases sensor strength (it's anti-ECM). The probing system works like this: the bigger your signature radius, the easier you are to probe out. But the higher your sensor strength, the harder you are to probe out. ECCM increases your sensor strength thus making you harder to probe. ECCM comes in two flavors, active modules that go in your midslots (ECCM) and a passive lowslot module called sensor backup arrays I believe.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.24 09:15:00 - [38] Quote: How did you have your overview sorted? Might they have used sisters combat probes and you missed it because you were looking for regular combat probes? Not an issue, I had cleared the place so the list of objects was shorter than the scan window. I'd see probes just by noticing the list growing longer. Quote: No, it's not a huge disadvantage to all players. It's a disadvantage to players who want to live in lowsec but do not want to PvP. Well, low sec should not be only for PvP. In fact ATM low sec is only pirates + FW corps, the rest of the game "canvas" is quite dead. Moreover, the game is "not working" very well in its mechanics. I can FW PLEX with a PvP compatible ship, if someone shows up I can retaliate even if the NPCs hitting me will indeed make the encounter somewhat biased. But to do sites and missions I can't really bring in a short range gank and point fit ship (some PvEish ships don't even support a PvP fitting very well). Now, in my day by day playing in low sec I can approximate an ETA of about 10-15 minutes before someone decides to come after me and probes. This is insufficient to finish any not totally trivial mission. Now, either CCP put sites and missions that can be done before such time or they make them profitable enough for a group to do them (ie prizing social play, should be a no brainer in a MMO) or make them oriented to PvP fitted ships. They can't just copy and paste high sec missions (with their requirements for PvE fits) in low sec like that. Else of course no one will bother with them. Ok to have unconsensual PvP but then give the tools to be something more than a passive sacrifical lamb waiting to be a kill mail. Else all you can do is to see yourself neuted in a shields fit, webbed, scrammed and killed. Even in the case the attacker finds himself losing (he has to be an idiot though) the PvE fitted ship cannot scram him so it's a 100% one sided deal with no risk for the attacker. Quote: There are plenty of other people who are fine with the PvP in lowsec while they are doing missions or exploration sites You remind me in WoW when people would invent examples with "I know alot of...". Cool, start tossing names, I'll go check with my eyes they are really there. I promise I'll only use a cov ops so I can't really do ill to those "plenty" of people Quote: I find it hard to believe that there are plenty of explorers, not to mention missioners, who find lowsec fun or profitable In fact it's a ball. Where you will find people making money in low sec is near NBSI low sec protected systems like ours (also with intel chats). But it's not exactly the norm. Not at all. Quote: I do think that lowsec is and should remain the domain of pvp'ers but I also think ccp should try to bring in more missioners/explorers/miners/people, by lowering the chance of getting ganked. How exactly they should be doing this I don't know Problem with low sec is a basic and unsolvable one: if you make it good, the nearby 0.0 alliances come in and take the low systems under their iron first. So low sec is made with craptastic moons, craptastic minerals exactly in the vicinity of the 0.0 entrances, craptastic rewards (and lag). CCP understood that low sec is beyond redemption due to the 0.0 alliances willingness to seize all the possible control over worthwhile space. So they introduced worm holes and their highly anti-big POS spamming alliance mechanics.
Ashmira Wintereyes Caldari Free Spirits	Posted - 2009.06.24 12:09:00 - [39] Just wondering as i never paid attention as the lone ranger explorer , what are FW corps, NBSI i get , just not the FW thingy ;)
Herzog Wolfhammer	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:40:00 - [40] Originally by: King Rothgar Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer ECCM modules in the mids? Could you please clarify that? Looking up various ECCM modules does not appear to reduce sig rad. Is that passive or active? Additional searches on this aspect don't show anything conclusive Umm, you got turned around on it I think. ECCM does not reduce sig radius, it increases sensor strength (it's anti-ECM). The probing system works like this: the bigger your signature radius, the easier you are to probe out. But the higher your sensor strength, the harder you are to probe out. ECCM increases your sensor strength thus making you harder to probe. ECCM comes in two flavors, active modules that go in your midslots (ECCM) and a passive lowslot module called sensor backup arrays I believe. Thanks! I am thinking about testing this one. Anyone up for a "wolf hunt"? I got some serpy and corelium named loot to put up.

Forge Trader	Posted - 2009.06.24 20:47:00 - [41] The reason that fast probing is disadvantageous to ALL players is the following: 1. Those who might be willing to risk their ships to PvP if they had a reasonable chance to accomplish their Pve missions, will stop going to losec. They already have, as evidenced by the general emptiness of losec except along certain communications routes. 2. Those who are looking for someone to gank in losec will find fewer and fewer targets. They already have. 3. Those few targets that are left now find themselves being hunted by a (relatively) larger number of pirates & other pvp types. Their chances of survival drop. So, just like on the Savannah when there are too many predators for the prey, the prey leave, and the predators go hungry. THAT is why too fast probing is disadvantageous to ALL players.
Inat Mivea	Posted - 2009.06.29 15:39:00 - [42] this is an interesting thread. . . I am a newish player who wants to get into exploration and currently probes down peeps in hisec just for fun and practice. I usually just end up helping them kill whatever they are killing and may sometimes ninja some salvage. Anyway, I anticipated getting into low-sec exploration as the rewards will be better with the increased risk. But based on previous MMO experience, I just ASSUMED that I would need assistance to effectively and quickly accomplish the pve aspect while having backup for the inevitable PvP aspect.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.30 07:25:00 - [43] Originally by: Inat Mivea this is an interesting thread. . . I am a newish player who wants to get into exploration and currently probes down peeps in hisec just for fun and practice. I usually just end up helping them kill whatever they are killing and may sometimes ninja some salvage. Anyway, I anticipated getting into low-sec exploration as the rewards will be better with the increased risk. But based on previous MMO experience, I just ASSUMED that I would need assistance to effectively and quickly accomplish the pve aspect while having backup for the inevitable PvP aspect. You got a winner mentality. Don't let you be skewed by the solo-bears. Not just in EvE; in any MMO they often call themselves "casual players" when in reality it's just asocial people or greedy "I want the prize all for myself alone". If you find a decent corp and you keep accepting to have to play with others you can easily overcome every challenge this game poses.
Ashmira Wintereyes Caldari Free Spirits	Posted - 2009.06.30 08:41:00 - [44] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Originally by: Inat Mivea this is an interesting thread. . . I am a newish player who wants to get into exploration and currently probes down peeps in hisec just for fun and practice. I usually just end up helping them kill whatever they are killing and may sometimes ninja some salvage. Anyway, I anticipated getting into low-sec exploration as the rewards will be better with the increased risk. But based on previous MMO experience, I just ASSUMED that I would need assistance to effectively and quickly accomplish the pve aspect while having backup for the inevitable PvP aspect. You got a winner mentality. Don't let you be skewed by the solo-bears. Not just in EvE; in any MMO they often call themselves "casual players" when in reality it's just asocial people or greedy "I want the prize all for myself alone". If you find a decent corp and you keep accepting to have to play with others you can easily overcome every challenge this game poses. What a load of crap judgement ... perhaps a group of people qualify for your views when they play solo, but i mostly play solo because i have little children which tend to disrupt teamplay alot when they dont want to sleep or are having flu etc. I dont like to let people down when i team up and therefor it's easier for me to play solo so i can dock/log whenever i need to without dissapointing others. Solo play aint a problem for alot of people, it's just that you miss a bunch of content that needs more then 1 player/account to complete, but thats normal for any MMO as they are aimed to promote teamplay.
Jerusaleman Caldari GREY COUNCIL THE R0NIN	Posted - 2009.06.30 11:53:00 - [45] gob****e trolls fill threads everywhere not even worth reading stuff anymore
RiotRick Black-Sun Pitch Black Legion	Posted - 2009.06.30 15:03:00 - [46] It is called DEADspace for a reason -- The future is black.
Reangorette Bianie	Posted - 2009.06.30 15:13:00 - [47] Edited by: Reangorette Bianie on 30/06/2009 15:14:48 Originally by: Nyveg Ok it seems 9/10 people can scan me out of deadspace-missions either lvl 1 or 4 <20secs, no drones. Is this what you want? Sure it is not what I want - change it. It only became "part of the game" with warp to zero. There was obviously a "deal" here. The question is if the "deal" was well balanced. That in itself is debatable, what is not debatable is that CCP do not run missions and have no concept what is it to do so. About 2 years ago someone posted that fact and the response by a member of CCP was along the lines of "We do run missions, me and 4 of my buddies went and did (for example) Cargo Delivery and it wasn't a problem at all." That is the extent of their practical knowledge of missions. There is only one way to change their preception of what the problems are and that is to post them here. Before the "council" when there were mission bugs they were posted here and in several cases I know of they were corrected within one week. This is not a bug problem, but a question of CCP's inability to balance correctly. If they "re-balance" everything else, why not this?
Inat Mivea	Posted - 2009.06.30 17:35:00 - [48] what i liked about Eve is the high level of 'reality' (the best definition of reality given this fact it is a video game) In college I participated in a couple archaeological digs in the southwest US and in Greece. One of the problems that you always had to contend with was looters - You could not always control who had access to your site. if the wrong people found you, you had to retreat and then pick up the pieces when you came back. I feel that Eve is the same way - you have the same risks. If you are a solo player that cannot devote the attention to the high risk area, then you need to stick to the high sec areas. Just like now, IRL, I am a solo "explorer" (cant call myself an archaeologist) so must stick to the easy access, low risk sites. I've seen a lot of sandbox MMOs fall due to the mentality that a low time investment player should get the same opportunity and reward as a high investment user. SO far eve seems to have stuck to their guns and appeal to the niche player base they have.
Herzog Wolfhammer	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:05:00 - [49] Originally by: Inat Mivea I've seen a lot of sandbox MMOs fall due to the mentality that a low time investment player should get the same opportunity and reward as a high investment user. SO far eve seems to have stuck to their guns and appeal to the niche player base they have. So the real challenge in balance comes from keeping subscribers, depending on what kind pays the bills. The low-time player uses very little bandwidth compared to some kid on summer break who has all the time in the world to be twinked. Bandwidth costs money. The MMOs that fall are the ones that construct in such a way that requires either endless grinding or grouping. Then 20 hours a day grinder will always have more of course, but groups are more difficult. Even in Faction Warfare you will sit at a gate (on the safe side) for at least an hour waiting for the rest of the fleet to get their act together. For people who have obligations and jobs in the real world, that hour is all they have. What balances an MMO better is not a monkey-wrenched construct within an existing mindset (grinding or grouping), but a new profession that allows players to operate alone and on their own time. Exploration for example. Creating a situation where you have to group just to do a mission takes missions (in low sec at least) off the list. Yes we can re-issue the usual "watch your scanner" diatribe as usual, but the moment those combat probes show up, themission is over (or the ship is). To the people who keep the servers running with their money, that's a waste of time. No mission complete, no LPs, no standings, no ISK. Waste of time. It would be easy to say "rage rage accept it, sucka" but then that means no more EVE. So the real "balance" is not about someones "I WIN" button or lack theroof, it's business. The best thing would be to open up more professions, expand exploration and science, and create missions that don't take an hour or two of orbiting and gun spamming.
Herzog Wolfhammer	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:22:00 - [50] Now that I think about it, how come they don't have missions for exploration and science? The closest thing you get to it is that SOE Epic Arc where they give you that Civilian Analyzer, a one-time use archeology scanner, for one of the missions. The missions are just as canned, repetitive, and predictable as in WOW. Oh great, "Human Cattle" again. Oh great, 15 Defias Bandanas.... SOMEBODY KILL ME PLEASE! sorry sorry I have breakdowns when I think about this. Why not have a mission that requires scanning, hacking, archeology - get in, get the thingy, get out. Some combat instead of an hour of it, some other thing that is the goal. If you have to do "Gone Berserk" in lowsec, if you don't have a tanking gunship from hell you won't finish it, or won't get enough time to salvage it. But you can scan in lowsec while cloaked, and your speed in hacking or analyses determines how long you have to be vulnerable. Intel to get in and out of the regios... the chances of risk from PVE to reliance on skills to PVP (or avoiding it) are all there, IF and only IF they would design missions around it. Courier missions into lowsec are not enough to get the blood flowing. And why not some PVP missions where you have to go kill another player? Even a specific one? (ahh the game has it in for you ) Faction warfare missions? Why not? FW fighters have rank, why not "go kill X number of ... minutemen.... etc" ? Salvage missions - Ninjas get a purpose! Not enough tears? Missioners offering wrecks and taking the fun out of being a ninja? Salvage-specific missions and who cares how you get it! How exactly is CCP designing their missions and when will they start listening to everybody from the bears to the gankers?

Ezra Tair Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:37:00 - [51] Build ships/mods and play the market, BOOM there is your solo play. You can mine/buy/build just about anything from High sec. Some characters are famous for it! 0/ Chribba Missions in low-sec are mostly a group venture. You can figure the profit from running it in high sec solo, or in low sec with a friend/s. Because if you look at the C&P forums you will notice that most gankers act solo as well. They also general fit the same sort of fittings. So countering them can be as easy as him providing some ewar and Nuets, and you got all the DPS, right? Do you REALLY wanna know what would fix the problem of being ganked as often or as easy? Give the low-sec rats Sleeper AI. When the ganker no longer has someone tanking for him, and something DPS'ing for him, they will have to commit more risk to assault you (IE being a ship that can also tank the rat DPS as well as your DPS. Its not necessarily a 'Fit nuets and a scram and watch them cry/die' effort anymore.
Inat Mivea	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:58:00 - [52] well i a ma slightly-more-than-casual player playing about 2-3 hours a night. I've got 1.8m SP and fly a vexor that i use for everything. i KNOW that i cannot take it into low sec, as much as I want to, b/c i've only played for a couple weeks and dont know anyone to come help me out and I'll get popped and p1ssed. So I bide my time with solo exploration - i probed down my first cosmic signature last night. It was a three area 'astroid belt' infested with drones. I popped a couple dozen drones, looted some containers (5th and 7th level overseers boxes) and the opportunity to analyze structures existed had I had the skills to do so. This was all in high-sec... To me, that was fun and provided an enriched solo-play opportunity for a casual player. to each his own, i guess.
Herzog Wolfhammer	Posted - 2009.06.30 19:27:00 - [53] Sleeper AI for rats - be careful what you wish for those boys are nasty. But that is a good idea, and possibly a plan they may already have.
Kei Gravatid	Posted - 2009.06.30 20:15:00 - [54] Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer ....The MMOs that fall are the ones that construct in such a way that requires either endless grinding or grouping. Then 20 hours a day grinder will always have more of course, but groups are more difficult. Even in Faction Warfare you will sit at a gate (on the safe side) for at least an hour waiting for the rest of the fleet to get their act together. For people who have obligations and jobs in the real world, that hour is all they have. What balances an MMO better is not a monkey-wrenched construct within an existing mindset (grinding or grouping), but a new profession that allows players to operate alone and on their own time. Exploration for example. Creating a situation where you have to group just to do a mission takes missions (in low sec at least) off the list. Yes we can re-issue the usual "watch your scanner" diatribe as usual, but the moment those combat probes show up, themission is over (or the ship is). To the people who keep the servers running with their money, that's a waste of time. No mission complete, no LPs, no standings, no ISK. Waste of time. It would be easy to say "rage rage accept it, sucka" but then that means no more EVE. So the real "balance" is not about someones "I WIN" button or lack theroof, it's business. The best thing would be to open up more professions, expand exploration and science, and create missions that don't take an hour or two of orbiting and gun spamming. My italics, and bravo and encore..........Heartily agree.
Kei Gravatid	Posted - 2009.06.30 20:24:00 - [55] Edited by: Kei Gravatid on 30/06/2009 20:25:00 Originally by: Inat Mivea well i a ma slightly-more-than-casual player playing about 2-3 hours a night. I've got 1.8m SP and fly a vexor that i use for everything. i KNOW that i cannot take it into low sec, as much as I want to, b/c i've only played for a couple weeks and dont know anyone to come help me out and I'll get popped and p1ssed. So I bide my time with solo exploration - i probed down my first cosmic signature last night. It was a three area 'astroid belt' infested with drones. I popped a couple dozen drones, looted some containers (5th and 7th level overseers boxes) and the opportunity to analyze structures existed had I had the skills to do so. This was all in high-sec... To me, that was fun and provided an enriched solo-play opportunity for a casual player. to each his own, i guess. But even missioning in lo sec was not what it is now. I would even accept what CCP did to pacify the pirates (there is an archived post where the pirates complained when gate guns were first introduced complaing that they wouldn't be able to make a living.......did they die and get re-born?) if they would just not mess up exploration which they are close to doing with letting POS be set up in w-space with no possible consequences. You try to kill sleepers there are consequences, why, what backstory sense does it make if a POS is put in a system and the sleepers aren't "awakened" and attacking. Forget sense, is this just another CCP loss like 0.0 became? The promise was that this was not supposed to be like 0.0 with effective control of systems going to large corps or alliances so that they could farm resources. The promise was that this was supposed to be open to all,....especially the new players who would have an equal chance to compete.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.30 20:32:00 - [56] Quote: Missions in low-sec are mostly a group venture. You can figure the profit from running it in high sec solo, or in low sec with a friend/s. Because if you look at the C&P forums you will notice that most gankers act solo as well. They also general fit the same sort of fittings. So countering them can be as easy as him providing some ewar and Nuets, and you got all the DPS, right? The deal breaker is that they are a group venture but the reward is not. Sure it's higher than an high sec mission but not enough to "pay" two or 3 people so in the end they just discard it and do the high sec, higher pay version. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Kei Gravatid	Posted - 2009.06.30 20:46:00 - [57] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha ...CCP understood that low sec is beyond redemption due to the 0.0 alliances willingness to seize all the possible control over worthwhile space. So they introduced worm holes and their highly anti-big POS spamming alliance mechanics. This is a truly enlightening quote (italics mine) relative to CCP's failure to deal with the 0.0 situation they have helped create and I relate this true observation and the like to the dangers of not soundly criticizing any attempts by CCP to trivialize exploration and to fight for a rebalance of the game for all players not just the elites.
Herzog Wolfhammer	Posted - 2009.06.30 21:46:00 - [58] Originally by: Kei Gravatid Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha ...CCP understood that low sec is beyond redemption due to the 0.0 alliances willingness to seize all the possible control over worthwhile space. So they introduced worm holes and their highly anti-big POS spamming alliance mechanics. This is a truly enlightening quote (italics mine) relative to CCP's failure to deal with the 0.0 situation they have helped create and I relate this true observation and the like to the dangers of not soundly criticizing any attempts by CCP to trivialize exploration and to fight for a rebalance of the game for all players not just the elites. I get a feeling sometimes that the features of WH space are headed for 0.0 space. Both pirates and bears alike tend to agree on removing local in 0.0. Mostly those who control 0.0 have a problem with it. (Go figure ). Of the exit and entry into 0.0 space was via jump/cyno/WH across the systems, the nullsec gate camp is dead, but those poor saps being bored camping them for system defense are also freed of this. Then the entire game is all about real tactics, stealth, strategy, and cunning. WH space is actually more survivable than 0.0. I hold back from being too critical of CCP because development is easier said than done, and I have worked on networked client-server systems myself. Legacy systems are the most resistant to change and mere suggestions that seem simple can be quite difficult when implementing in code. Sadly the foundation for new professions already exists, but are left unattended because the other aspects appear to take a lot of time and resources to tweak.
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.30 22:24:00 - [59] Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Sleeper AI for rats - be careful what you wish for those boys are nasty. But that is a good idea, and possibly a plan they may already have. Oh, PLEASE implement this! I'll happily start throwing T1 drones to the wolves if it means: 1)Fragile little scavengers get targetted immediately on warp-in cos the rats can't scratch my tank. 2)Those same rats all have points/webs and can toss them all the way across the pocket to lockdown said fragile scavenger. Moar harder rats plz, I wants sweet sweet nonja teerz!
Ethidium The Eleventh Commandment Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.30 22:59:00 - [60] Originally by: Junko Togawa Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Sleeper AI for rats - be careful what you wish for those boys are nasty. But that is a good idea, and possibly a plan they may already have. Oh, PLEASE implement this! I'll happily start throwing T1 drones to the wolves if it means: 1)Fragile little scavengers get targetted immediately on warp-in cos the rats can't scratch my tank. 2)Those same rats all have points/webs and can toss them all the way across the pocket to lockdown said fragile scavenger. Moar harder rats plz, I wants sweet sweet nonja teerz! All that will do is make us take all your bounties first, then come back for the salvage. We 'nonja' are quite adaptable. :D



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