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Balthalis
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Posted - 2009.06.22 01:55:00 -
[1]
My corp recently had war declared on it, and some of our members thought it was great. We can search and destroy and kill enemies without repercussions from concord. So a few of them went out and about despite orders to stay in till enough intelligence was gathered about the enemy. Needless to say all of those guys got their ships smashed and their as#$es podded fairly quick. When our commander found out they did this, he got really mad and flamed big-time on our secure channel. Which resulted in 2 of our guys leaving the corp . When the commander finally got the Intel we needed, he found that its members were far more advanced in pvp and fleet skirmishes then we are. They also had better equipped ships. The order was given lay low wait them out, give them no targets. 2 days later 2 other corps declared war on the enemy corp. Once they saw we stopped giving them targets to kill, they ended the war declaration, it ends tomorrow night. My question is to the vets and other corp big wigs. Does this seem like a good strategy that paid off, or did we just get lucky with the other 2 corps declaring war on our enemy? Also what do you think the future ramifications of not fighting could be? Thanks! |
Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.22 02:01:00 -
[2]
I think its stupid that you would get shouted at for pvp'ing in the first place, a corp like that with an over the top control freak CEO wont last long at all, as for waiting them out, it works but it aint exactly fun is it? it would be infinitely more entertaining to go running about in frigs trying to get a fight |
FudgePacker
Minmatar Gay Rights League
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Posted - 2009.06.22 02:02:00 -
[3]
Im gonna declare war on you for crimes against the Enter key. |
Jei'son Bladesmith
The Storm Knights The Cool Kids Club
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Posted - 2009.06.22 02:09:00 -
[4]
Its one thing not to give the enemy juicy targets, like flying around in a freighter on autopilot during wartime, but if you're guys wanna fight, let em fight. Yelling at em just drives em away as you saw. Even (or especially) if youre a PvE/Industrial corp, its ALWAYS good to have people who enjoy PvP on the payroll.
If you wanna stay docked and logged off during a war, thats your business, but frankly that just encourages more people to dec you out of spite as word gets around. Even if you get your asses handed to you, you at least get some respect for undocking, you'd be surprised how many friends you can make just by not punking out.
In my experience, very few corps will bother to end a wardec early if you dont undock, they often just let it ride out since its already paid for Better to just invest in some disposable and insurable T1 ships and cheap mods, and at least get smashed with honor lol.
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Benjamin Shepherd
Caldari Circle of Ouroborus
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Posted - 2009.06.22 02:26:00 -
[5]
I believe that the action that a corporation takes is based on both the personality and overall goal of the corporation. If you have a prideful CEO that focuses on security, he or she might want to do anything to successfully defeat the opposing corporation. On the other hand, if you're in a corporation that is scientifically or economically inclined, then laying low and keeping safe will be a wise approach.
In my opinion, I'd lay low. While it might hurt your reputation a bit, it's a much safer and smart decision. If you have the manpower and wits though, then go for it.
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Jei'son Bladesmith
The Storm Knights The Cool Kids Club
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Posted - 2009.06.22 02:30:00 -
[6]
sa-fe? sm-a-rt? I play EVE, what are these words you speak of?
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2009.06.22 02:33:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gneeznow I think its stupid that you would get shouted at for pvp'ing in the first place, a corp like that with an over the top control freak CEO wont last long at all, as for waiting them out, it works but it aint exactly fun is it? it would be infinitely more entertaining to go running about in frigs trying to get a fight
I thought the call was a sound one, get intel and go out once you have it, people freestyling without a clue typically gets them dead, as demonstrated in the OP.
For the love of frogs paragraphs man!
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Le Sabre
Gallente The Dead Canary Mining Corporation Legion of Honor
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Posted - 2009.06.22 02:47:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Le Sabre on 22/06/2009 02:48:31 Speaking as a CEO of an industrial corp, had some of my guys gone off to look for trouble only to find it, I would have laughed at them when they got back.
I certainly wouldn't have gone all /rage on them though. As others have said, having members that are willing to fight for your corp is a very good thing. Your CEO's requests were spot on, but the way he handled the eager-beavers was out of order imho.
The strategy of 'waiting it out' does work, but its so dull and its not unknown for corps to lose members during such times. Go out in cheap frigates, have fun running the targets around the local systems. You might lose a few frigates, but think of the laughs.
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Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.06.22 02:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Originally by: Gneeznow I think its stupid that you would get shouted at for pvp'ing in the first place, a corp like that with an over the top control freak CEO wont last long at all, as for waiting them out, it works but it aint exactly fun is it? it would be infinitely more entertaining to go running about in frigs trying to get a fight
I thought the call was a sound one, get intel and go out once you have it, people freestyling without a clue typically gets them dead, as demonstrated in the OP.
For the love of frogs paragraphs man!
and I wonder what was lost? a caracal? a brutix? maybe even a drake! how will they ever recover from such losses! the best way to get intel on an area or an opponent is to go fight them yourself and see what they can do
I would guess in all honesty though that the majority of people might agree with you, because most people dont want to take risks they just want to safely gank their opponents with as little risk to themselves as possible
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Chestor TheMolestor
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Posted - 2009.06.22 03:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: FudgePacker Im gonna declare war on you for crimes against the Enter key.
im gonna declare war on you for stealing my dad's buttplug |
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SpaceSquirrels
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.22 03:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: FudgePacker Im gonna declare war on you for crimes against the Enter key.
Awesome. Made me giggle like school girl. |
Solomon XI
The Estovakian Militia.
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Posted - 2009.06.22 04:14:00 -
[12]
So some of your members actually went out looking to fight and you guys yelled at them, flamed them, and chased them out of corp?
Post with your main. I'd like to have a word with you.
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Faife
Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.06.22 04:41:00 -
[13]
high sec wars are pretty stupid. don't worry about gangs, just get massive armor tank trimarked BSes, hug stations, and have NPC-alt people repping you.
and ps, you can't win other than by making them bored since they make their money with alts. |
Spurty
Caldari Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.06.22 05:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Faife high sec wars are pretty stupid. don't worry about gangs, just get massive armor tank trimarked BSes, hug stations, and have NPC-alt people repping you.
and ps, you can't win other than by making them bored since they make their money with alts.
best advice here |
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2009.06.22 05:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Solomon XI So some of your members actually went out looking to fight and you guys yelled at them, flamed them, and chased them out of corp?
They are better off out of the corp.
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Mroe Bree
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.22 05:58:00 -
[16]
Disorganized Ramboing was the absolutely worst thing for your corpmates to do. Your CEO was right to yell. All they did was provide points on a killboard.
Faife's advice is pure gold. The rubbish about earning respect from an empire gankbear corp is laughable. Boring them to tears is the only way to win.
Other fun things to do: log the whole corp on, have everyone jumpclone to a station in some armpit region far far away and then go to bed. If you do undock make sure to do it in something very fast, and take your WTs on a tour of lowsec. Roll new alts and blob them in velators until their ammo runs out.
The possibilities for griefing gankbears are endless. |
Landrassa
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
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Posted - 2009.06.22 06:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Faife high sec wars are pretty stupid. don't worry about gangs, just get massive armor tank trimarked BSes, hug stations, and have NPC-alt people repping you.
and ps, you can't win other than by making them bored since they make their money with alts.
Some of us actually make a pretty decent living just off of the loot and ransoms, thank you very much.
As to the OP's question, from the perspective of a corp that decs people for fun and profit, it all depends on what your objectives are. Typically the moment i throw out a wardec I pay for the second week as well, so that's already 14 days of sitting in a station spinning your boats. That's a lot of lost income, not to mention pretty damn bad for morale.
And yes, some corps have actually brought it, coming out in semi-properly fitted cheap ships and putting up a decent fight and being good sports about it, and those are pretty much the only corps we might retract against early when they earn our respect.
Short of killboard stats(and what indy corp cares about those?) I really can't think of a reason to forbid one's members going out there in cheap t1 ships and having fun, maybe learning a thing or 2 in the process. And how long does it take to compile a memberlist with favorite ships on a typical empire pvp corp anyway? |
ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.06.22 06:58:00 -
[18]
going emo on members cause they actually have the balls to fight back is at best ******ed.
hope your corp gets a war dec that will go on until next year tbh, thats the only thing your ceo deserves
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.06.22 07:04:00 -
[19]
CCP was so kind to add a method to evade wardecs and still make some ISK: Wormholes. Just make a vacation in a wormhole for the duration of the war and see how much fun your opponents will have finding and fighting you. Not even locator agents will be of use for them and you may even end up with a strategic cruiser or two. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.22 08:13:00 -
[20]
While maybe he went a bit too emo, assuming you are an industrial corp it was sadly the right thing to do. When wardecced make sure they get bored and switch to another target. If you fight back, only do it in specific cases where you horribly outnumber them and half your ships are equipped with ewar just to make sure they dont get any fun from the fight and they are horribly killed. Sure those members can probably just buy new ships, but the wardeccers had fun when killing them, and if you do that more often the chances rise that they extend the wardec.
If members want to pvp redirect them to lowsec. 95% of those wardeccers are way too scared to enter low sec (pvp is all fine for them, and they whine on the forums about people able to avoid pvp, but as soon as the pvp isnt riskfree for them anymore they dont want to have anything to do with it), so in low sec they can do their pvp stuff. |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.22 08:39:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gneeznow I think its stupid that you would get shouted at for pvp'ing in the first place, a corp like that with an over the top control freak CEO wont last long at all, as for waiting them out, it works but it aint exactly fun is it? it would be infinitely more entertaining to go running about in frigs trying to get a fight
Well it's easy to second guess, especially when you're only hearing one side of the story but... yeah.
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.22 09:16:00 -
[22]
it all comes down to what is corp about. if corp is not about fighting, you did the right choice. if players that left are more happy when fighting, it's obvious they were in wrong corp. i see nothing wrong came out of this, except bit of CEO emorage. but then again, we are all just human. |
Marie Duvolle
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Posted - 2009.06.22 09:34:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Marie Duvolle on 22/06/2009 09:34:24
Originally by: Gneeznow and I wonder what was lost? a caracal? a brutix? maybe even a drake! how will they ever recover from such losses! the best way to get intel on an area or an opponent is to go fight them yourself and see what they can do
I would guess in all honesty though that the majority of people might agree with you, because most people dont want to take risks they just want to safely gank their opponents with as little risk to themselves as possible
There's a difference between a suicide OP if you're a PVPer in a pvp corp, and being clueless in a non-pvp corp feeding the WT's targets so they don't get bored. Meaning it'll prolong the war possibly and make the WT's more active and keen on fights.
Being stupid hurling lossmails at someone who wardecced you isn't smart, fun or entertaining, it's just mostly stupid. ESPECIALLY if you, by doing so, deminish the whole position of the corp.
No intel, no strategy, no tactics, just lossmails. |
Chris Liath
Gallente Nex Exercitus Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.06.22 09:48:00 -
[24]
Originally by: FudgePacker Im gonna declare war on you for crimes against the Enter key.
I lol'd |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.06.22 11:36:00 -
[25]
Im a member of a small merc corp that has been known to dec care bears corps that annoy us.
If your corp cant fight well the smartest thing you can do is turtle. The aggressor will get bored and quit.
Repeatedly going out and losing fights is the worst thing you could possibly do if you want the war to end. |
Chantilly Layce
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Posted - 2009.06.22 11:53:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Balthalis
When our commander found out they did this, he got really mad and flamed big-time on our secure channel. Which resulted in 2 of our guys leaving the corp . When the commander finally got the Intel we needed, he found that its members were far more advanced in pvp and fleet skirmishes then we are.Thanks!
1) Law of the Jungle... 99% of the time, older Corps and pilots will have better ships, skills, and so forth. Knowing when to refuse a fight, knowing you are outgunned and out-skilled, is a reasonable survival skill.
Not the most fun, but it won't lose you ships when you really can't fight back anyway.
2) Sounds to me like it's time to pod your commander or CEO or whoever thought he should crap all over the troops. There are reasons officers "get fragged" by their own troops... nuf said.
Good luck. |
Sniper Wolf18
Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.22 12:06:00 -
[27]
Get about 10 people in t1 frigates, then go after solo members of their corp. Privateers decced us and that tactic is working alright for us and the lulz factor in it makes it even better. They've started flying in anti-frigate gangs now though |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.22 12:45:00 -
[28]
And then you get horribly killed by their station camping BS with neutral rep support (because that is what most of the riskfree pvp'ers do). Boring the opponents is sadly just the best thing to do. |
Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2009.06.22 14:42:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gneeznow I think its stupid that you would get shouted at for pvp'ing in the first place, a corp like that with an over the top control freak CEO wont last long at all, as for waiting them out, it works but it aint exactly fun is it? it would be infinitely more entertaining to go running about in frigs trying to get a fight
Depends on what their goal is. PVP'ing just isn't where its at for some. Also, giving kills w/o information is stupid. Going out to fight and not knowing who your facing is stupid. Giving a pvp corp fights (i.e. - what they want) is stupid unless that is your goal...
Originally by: Ghoest Im a member of a small merc corp that has been known to dec care bears corps that annoy us. If your corp cant fight well the smartest thing you can do is turtle. The aggressor will get bored and quit. Repeatedly going out and losing fights is the worst thing you could possibly do if you want the war to end.
^---this. IF the dec'd corp doesn't mind the mindless fights... then go for it, but going out blind is fail...
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Mitch Taylor
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.06.22 14:57:00 -
[30]
War decs happen for a variety of reasons, as such each case ilicits a unique response from me.
If your corporation is 0.0 based exclusively, a war dec could be in an empire system you use for logistics. The bulk of your forces may be engaged in deep space, so dropping high value assets like jump freighters or industrials out of corp for the duration of the war might be a good idea. Its also worth noting that if you were to take your forces to the 'fight' would you get one? or was this war dec to get easy kills on vulnerable assets?
The same applies for empire based corps, but to a lesser extent. My corporation is in a permanent war dec with 7000 eve players (fw), so we are by no means war shy or industrialists. However, at times we recieve wardecs from small corps who aim to attack our logistic lines to and from jita. Do I mobilise the corp and set up camps and traps to kill these people? No, that would just distract us from our goals and objectives. Instead we tend to neutralise the threat by closely controlling what assets are in space in the danger areas + ensuring all high ticket/low defense ships have armed escorts.
I believe the challenge you face is not your CEO's course of action, but your belief in what he is trying to achieve, whether or not that is down to his competence as a leader or your desire to be lead, I cannot say. Either way, you should really be looking for a new corporation.
The Dark is Rising... Fight my Brute! |
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