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Carriers/Fighters: Liability or useful?

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Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:25:00 - [1] My apologies beforehand if this is a bit of a broad subject. I'm training the skills for a carrier. Just seems prudent, and with my skills and experience I should be able to fly and fit one pretty well. That being said, I'm looking for a good reason to use it. It's been my impression that capital ships are a bit of a liability. Useful, but very vulnerable. During my time in 0.0 I learned quite quickly that getting in on a capital ship kill mail was a nice trophy to add to one's record, and the report of a lone cap ship floating in space somewhere usually sends gank squads running. I don't want to buy a carrier and have it quickly become a hanger queen. But aside from using it to haul things I don't see much usefulness in it. I hear that fighters are more often a worry than a help in that they'll warp off, run around in circles, pee on other ships in fleet and generally get shot to pieces, only to have to pay 30mil for each one you wish to have the privileged of losing. It seems to be a waste to use one as a overgrown drone boat. My corp is currently doing low-sec wormhole ops and would like to do level 5s, but it seems both could be accomplished a lot easier and with a lot less risk with a traditional battleship group. I've seen carriers fielded in large fleets with entire wings of fighters taking out other carriers/dreads/titans, etc, but is there any combat usefulness in small groups? Does a lone carrier bring any sort of combat potential to the field, or is it relegated to a glorified logistics ship sitting cloaked at a deep safespot? I would love to pilot a Chimera as a sort of "strike carrier", dropping/assigning 10-12 fighters and watching them tear through things, but the posts I read seem to indicate that this is more often a recipe for a lossmail. Is there something I'm overlooking? What do you think? Thanks in advance!
Kalavoz Caldari 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.22 20:54:00 - [2] The ability of a carrier to move ships makes it worthwhile alone, imho. Add to the fact the pos repping abilities most carriers have and no alliance will be unhappy to have another carrier pilot with them. Train up Logistics to 5 and get carrier siege mode, and you'll be welcomed with open arms. However, mostly you'll end up with the carrier either sat in your hangar, or repping a pos/station services, or AU's away from the action hovering above a friendly pos shield with your fighters assigned to someone else to have fun with. Saying all of the above, I personally still think they are worthwhile ships simply for the ease of logistics they will bring to the table.
Poses	Posted - 2009.06.22 21:47:00 - [3] welp... anything caps can do BS can do cheaper shrug (this is more true for dreads then carrier but w/e) the exception being carrying **** and repping pos'... if this is your idea of a good time then hurray for you!
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.06.22 21:53:00 - [4] Originally by: Poses welp... anything caps can do BS can do cheaper shrug (this is more true for dreads then carrier but w/e) lolwut Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
Poses	Posted - 2009.06.22 22:22:00 - [5] Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Originally by: Poses welp... anything caps can do BS can do cheaper shrug (this is more true for dreads then carrier but w/e) lolwut name one thing a dread can do that 10 BS cannot also deal w/o having a big target painted on your face
Firkragg Blue Labs Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.06.22 22:28:00 - [6] name something 1 bs can do that 10 cruisers cant do etc etc. dreads are awesome for doing what they are meant to do i.e pos crap and cap killing carriers are awesome for their logistical and support abilities. Personally i love mine purely for the ability to shift ships about.
Linnth Amarr Darkill Corp	Posted - 2009.06.22 22:48:00 - [7] Here's a question. If you're in a carrier, and you assign fighters to some other player and he goes and kills someone with the help of your fighters, do you get on the killmail? ------------------- Amarr: Getting screwed since 2005!
4THELULZ	Posted - 2009.06.23 00:27:00 - [8] Originally by: Linnth Here's a question. If you're in a carrier, and you assign fighters to some other player and he goes and kills someone with the help of your fighters, do you get on the killmail? I think so. Not 100% certain though. There was one kill ages ago that I got on purely because I handed some warrior IIs to an interceptor friend from my Scorpion but not sure if that'd scale up to fighters.
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.06.23 01:04:00 - [9] Originally by: Poses name one thing a dread can do that 10 BS cannot also deal w/o having a big target painted on your face 1 dread = one pilot 10 BS = ten pilots
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.06.23 01:09:00 - [10] fighters are mostly a liability tbh, they cant hit anything smaller than the death star, they follow stuff into warp when you need them to be fighting on grid, takes ages to call them back then, and people always try and kill them because they know how much they cost, nearly as well off using garde II's and berserker II's in most situations
Traderboz	Posted - 2009.06.23 01:27:00 - [11] Not to mention, if you're playing station games, using fighters will aggress you and prevent you from docking. 99/100 times it won't matter, as you'll be able to tank any incoming damage for 60 seconds and then dock up. But if you keep aggressing people in your carrier, eventually someone's going to bring in a hictor, a cyno and a stack of dreads, and that'll be all she wrote. I bought my Archon to provide reps for people and for hauling all my pvp ships around. It's not the most glamorous role for the ship, but it's still pretty damn useful to me.
Foulque Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.06.23 05:22:00 - [12] Originally by: Poses the exception being carrying ** and repping pos'... if this is your idea of a good time then hurray for you! And if you'd rather wait for your corpmates to do it for you or do the 30 jumps manually for each ship you move hurray for you! Archons can't rep POS's Dreads are very specific in their role and I wouldn't ever buy a personal one unless I was ****edly rich. Having an alt in a carrier though has been so hugely useful for moving ships quickly to regroups or resupplying easily if you happen to be in 00. Carriers are great to have if you can afford it, but as with other caps don't expect to get a huge amount of use out of it. ________
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.06.23 09:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Poses Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Originally by: Poses welp... anything caps can do BS can do cheaper shrug (this is more true for dreads then carrier but w/e) lolwut name one thing a dread can do that 10 BS cannot also deal w/o having a big target painted on your face jump to a cyno and siege.
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.06.23 14:25:00 - [14] Thanks for the feedback everyone. =) It does seem like they're pretty alliance focused. I'll continue to train the skills, but it sounds like for a low-sec corp it's best to hold off for now. Maybe a Golem, I guess. =)
ArcDragon Caldari FUSION INDUSTRIES	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:27:00 - [15] I've spent quite a lot of time assembling carrier knowledge, use the evewiki and look up carriers, you will find everything you ever wanted to know about them. I fly a Chimera. By accident because way back when, I choose Caldari. It turns out they have the best personal tank of all the carriers. They are right about them bringing in dreads to pop you, I had 21 ships I was tanking until they brought in 2 dreads and polished me off quicker than I could self destruct. You will find uses for it, more uses if you bring it into a wormhole, class 3, 4, 5 or 6. I used to run level 5 missions in it until wormholes came about. Keep training for them, they can rep POSs like nobodie's business, have around 1 million + effective hp and can do absolute wonders when you team up with, say a 5 man fleet.
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:36:00 - [16] Capital ships are anything but a liability. They're a lot of responsibility, though. Being a dreadnought pilot makes you a very attractive recruit for 0.0 alliances, who are always looking for more. They are very task specific, but they are also very rarely deployed when heavy opposition is expected. If anything, I've found dreadnoughts to be the most boring ship I've ever flown. Carriers are extremely flexible ships when flown right. Ship transport and POS repping are the most common uses, but they can also be used by a pilot with a cyno alt capable of flying decent ships to pretty much roam 0.0 at will. For a ratter, they're a mobile POS in one package. Drop the carrier into a system when its quiet, park it at a midpoint safe, and let your cyno alt swap ships out of your ship maintenance array and the corp hangar means you never leave anything in the field if you're willing to spend the time to loot it. They can solo cosmic anomalies, radar and magnetometric plexes, as well. For PvP, carriers make extremely capable logistics ships, especially when playing on the front porch of a station. Even if you don't deploy fighters, throwing hordes of warrior IIs into the fray tasked to interceptors can make a romaing gang's life miserable
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.06.23 15:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Foulque Originally by: Poses the exception being carrying ** and repping pos'... if this is your idea of a good time then hurray for you! And if you'd rather wait for your corpmates to do it for you or do the 30 jumps manually for each ship you move hurray for you! Archons can't rep POS's They can rep POS modules. And a lot more effectively than a Chimera, which is pretty effing sweet for tower repping. Jump bridges and cyno jammers have **ed levels of armor points, and that's where the Archon shines during mop up. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.**
Lucifer demon Solitude Empires Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.24 00:13:00 - [18] Quote: Being a dreadnought pilot makes you a very attractive recruit for 0.0 alliances, who are always looking for more. They are very task specific, but they are also very rarely deployed when heavy opposition is expected. If anything, I've found dreadnoughts to be the most boring ship I've ever flown. Never have more true words been spoken. It is nice to have tower KM's but overall Dreads are pretty boring and a big chunk of iskies to lose. In today's POS warfare however they are invaluable.
Essence Praetor Retribution. Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.24 01:58:00 - [19] To this date, I haven't talked to a truly happy cap pilot. Happy carebears, mission runners, miners, mercs, pirates and traders. Not one cap pilot has ever said " **** yea! POS take down and blob fest at 3 AM" I know someone who sold his Chimera pilot a few days ago actually for about 24B.
NeoNeTiC LOCKDOWN. Cult of War	Posted - 2009.06.24 02:17:00 - [20] Edited by: NeoNeTiC on 24/06/2009 02:20:06 I'd at most recommend training for Dreads and skip out on carriers. A Dread is nice for POS-work and alliances dig it when someone joins a POS-takedown fleet and brings something more useful than a BS. Carriers are a tough choice though. When you plan on trading/moving stuff a lot, a jump freighter may be a better investment. The biggest issue about carriers is that fighters are underwhelming for their cost. Triage carriers can be helpful but only if the circumstances allow the use. You need a sizeable fleet to make it worthwhile, a set fighting area (because you can't move until the triage-cycle finishes) and ships that have enough hitpoints to survive the incoming damage between your cycles (aka other caps - repping BS is only possible if the enemy lacks any numbers to be a threat and you would thus not need the damn carrier anyways). If your corp does not plan to claim space in 0.0, train for anything but capitals. Command ships for example are nice in any situation or you could start maxing fancy skills to 5. Using a carrier in small gang warfare is nigh impossible - most people will just run and smack when you drop capitals on them (this means less kills for you) or call for backup and pop you.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Interstellar eXodus	Posted - 2009.06.24 05:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Poses name one thing a dread can do that 10 BS cannot also deal w/o having a big target painted on your face A dread can be piloted by a single pilot. OH SNAP
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.06.24 10:19:00 - [22] liability in the sense that a gf can be a liability
deathstriker seven	Posted - 2009.06.24 10:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu Originally by: Poses name one thing a dread can do that 10 BS cannot also deal w/o having a big target painted on your face A dread can be piloted by a single pilot. OH SNAP Dreads in siege are also immune to ewar systems like ecm, damps td's ect ect.
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.06.24 12:03:00 - [24] Originally by: ArcDragon ...and can do absolute wonders when you team up with, say a 5 man fleet. Can you elaborate on this? It was my understanding that bringing carriers through wormholes was more trouble than it was worth. I did see your carriers thread a while back when I first started reading up on them. I have it pasted in a word doc. =) Here's a follow on question: Are fighters worthwhile in any capacity (some said that they're not worth of risk of losing) and if so, do you think they should be fixed? (made cheaper, faster, given better control over their movement, etc.)
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.06.24 13:55:00 - [25] Originally by: Regat Kozovv Can you elaborate on this? It was my understanding that bringing carriers through wormholes was more trouble than it was worth. Depends on what you do with them there. Soloing in sleeper space is suicide, ESPECIALLY in any system you can push a carrier through. As the logistics core of a decent battleship gang, I can see a carrier being pretty fracking effective, a Thanatos (fighters for NPC battleships) or a Chimera (remote repping heaven with a sweet local tank fit). If you really want to cheeseball it, you can stick the carrier at a midpoint safe and assign fighters to the plex/cosmic anomaly runners without tripping CCP's ******ed "Capital in the plex" NPC spawn penalty. When you find a wormhole you can push a carrier through, you've got enough stability to make a bigger raiding party worth the effort.
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.06.24 14:08:00 - [26] Edited by: Regat Kozovv on 24/06/2009 14:08:25 Originally by: Janu Hull If you really want to cheeseball it, you can stick the carrier at a midpoint safe and assign fighters to the plex/cosmic anomaly runners without tripping CCP's ******ed "Capital in the plex" NPC spawn penalty. I thought the extra Sleeper BSs spawned the moment you brought the carrier through the hole, but that's not the case? If so, it may be worthwhile after all.
battlebot1077 Off-Axis Response	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Regat Kozovv Edited by: Regat Kozovv on 24/06/2009 14:08:25 Originally by: Janu Hull If you really want to cheeseball it, you can stick the carrier at a midpoint safe and assign fighters to the plex/cosmic anomaly runners without tripping CCP's ******ed "Capital in the plex" NPC spawn penalty. I thought the extra Sleeper BSs spawned the moment you brought the carrier through the hole, but that's not the case? If so, it may be worthwhile after all. no, the extra spawns only occur when you warp a cap ship to a plex or assign fighters to people in the plex.
Regat Kozovv Caldari Alcothology	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:58:00 - [28] It's the assigning fighters part that I'm trying to nail down. If assigning fighters triggers it, then it may not be worth it. If it doesn't, well...
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.06.25 21:09:00 - [29] Originally by: battlebot1077 or assign fighters to people in the plex. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.

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