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Tussah
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Posted - 2009.06.23 15:52:00 -
[1]
What's the general consensus on training two races? Is it good to have flexibility to choose the best ship for each role, or does the skill distribution mean that you're not as effective as someone who focuses just on one race?
For context, I'm Gallente, and I'm thinking about perhaps learning to fly Minmatar as well.
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Khornne
Caldari
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.06.23 15:57:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Tussah
What's the general consensus on training two races? Is it good to have flexibility to choose the best ship for each role, or does the skill distribution mean that you're not as effective as someone who focuses just on one race?
For context, I'm Gallente, and I'm thinking about perhaps learning to fly Minmatar as well.
Really depends on what you want. How deep you are in your first race, what you want to fly etc.
I trained Caldari and Minmatar and I'm happy I did cause I love to have a wider board of ships to chose from. |
Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.06.23 15:59:00 -
[3]
It all depends on how many SP you have. At 5 million, I would suggest not cross training unless it's for a very specific purpose (i.e. picking up a drake and barebones skills for ratting/missioning). At 75 million, you will likely have crosstrained multiple races, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I would probably avoid heavy crosstraining until at least 20 million SP, and even that's a bit low if you're really trying to fly one race's ships well. It also depends on what you're crosstraining for. For example, once you hit BC5 (or even BC4, but 5 is better), it's really pretty easy to pick up another race's t2 medium weapons and fly their BC with max skills. Combine this with already having 20-30 million SP invested in one race, and it just makes it very easy to continue crosstraining from there. Once you knock out the t2 medium weapons, it's only a few weeks until cruiser 5, and if you already have HAC/Recon/HIC/Logi trained up for your first race, then you're talking 2 months or less to unlock a whole host of new PVP ships. Basically, crosstraining is very hard and not advised early on, but once you have all the fundamentals trained up, it's very fast to crosstrain and unlock another race's ships. |
XkalistiX
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Posted - 2009.06.30 08:17:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Traderboz
It all depends on how many SP you have. At 5 million, I would suggest not cross training unless it's for a very specific purpose (i.e. picking up a drake and barebones skills for ratting/missioning). At 75 million, you will likely have crosstrained multiple races, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I would probably avoid heavy crosstraining until at least 20 million SP, and even that's a bit low if you're really trying to fly one race's ships well. It also depends on what you're crosstraining for. For example, once you hit BC5 (or even BC4, but 5 is better), it's really pretty easy to pick up another race's t2 medium weapons and fly their BC with max skills. Combine this with already having 20-30 million SP invested in one race, and it just makes it very easy to continue crosstraining from there. Once you knock out the t2 medium weapons, it's only a few weeks until cruiser 5, and if you already have HAC/Recon/HIC/Logi trained up for your first race, then you're talking 2 months or less to unlock a whole host of new PVP ships. Basically, crosstraining is very hard and not advised early on, but once you have all the fundamentals trained up, it's very fast to crosstrain and unlock another race's ships.
very sound advice.
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Kenji Hideyoshi
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Posted - 2009.06.30 08:28:00 -
[5]
Also remember that some races share skills. Gunnery, for instance, has skills such as Trajectory Analysis which will benefit those using turrets. If you crosstrain from i.e. Gallente to Caldari, keep in mind you'll (probably) be needing to train missiles as well - unless you're sticking to railguns or whatever.
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Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.06.30 09:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Rordan D''Kherr on 30/06/2009 09:41:03
Cross training means flexibility and variety and is a must nowadays in EVE. If you don't, you are going to start crying like a little baby as it can be seen in so many threads when it comes to changing ships or weapon systems (nerfs mostly).
I have trained 2 races up to t2 cruisers and mods so far and I am working on my third.
Goal: Pick the best ships from races worth to fly in pvp (amarr, minmatar, (gallente)).
Makes you nearly nerf proof.
Sticking with Gallente brings you close to Caldari (due to Railguns), but do not touch Caldari yet. Minmatar seems a reasonable choice, but I'd say train Amarr.
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Ebru Shally
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Posted - 2009.06.30 11:51:00 -
[7]
imo best thing todo is first train for one race to battleship 4 (or 5 with marauders, but never start with minmatars as i do it was a painfull experience ) that you can use that races all the tech2 ships effectively, and then rest is just easy, i.e with battlecruisers 5 you can have lots of good choices with few days of training, also except caldari (missiles) training for one races tech2 turrets means you have also trained for other 3 weapons tech2 prerequisite skills (trajectory analysis, sharpshooter,....)
i can use all races battleships (4 days left for gallentes) and tech2 cruisers/command ships of 2 races.. i think that really makes this game better for me. not everything is "investing your skillpoints visely"
maybe i am not using anything at %100 efficency but i can use whatever i want, and thats more important for me
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Mystafyre
Caldari
Awaken tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.30 11:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tussah
What's the general consensus on training two races? Is it good to have flexibility to choose the best ship for each role, or does the skill distribution mean that you're not as effective as someone who focuses just on one race?
For context, I'm Gallente, and I'm thinking about perhaps learning to fly Minmatar as well.
Well, I am training all four races atm and skipping capital ships... 
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Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity
YARRR and CO
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Posted - 2009.06.30 13:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mystafyre
For context, I'm Gallente, and I'm thinking about perhaps learning to fly Minmatar as well.
Well, I am training all four races atm and skipping capital ships...
sound advice :) I cant bring myself to train caldari, but I have the others up to t2 cruisers and no interest in capitals.
Flexibility is very nice. Personally I prefer Minmatar so far because I find their ships a lot of fun.
it comes down to what shiptype and style of play you like. Amarr for BS and larger gang work, minmatar for small gangs and solo.
Put in space whales!
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Darius Brinn
Gallente
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2009.06.30 13:47:00 -
[10]
Another good reason would be the absolute pimpage of flying the Machariel and the Nightmare.
http://www.geocities.com/vagrantweapons/db.jpg |
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Riho
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.30 13:50:00 -
[11]
im close to 55mil sp now... and due to not wanting to fly any capitals i chose training other races.
i started as gallente, at 5m sp i trained for a raven (bad idea as i pvpd in gallente ships and i was really weak whit them compared to my sp :( ).
it is good to have around 10m sp in one race to train for another... because then you are quite good whit one race and can use them during the time you train something else :)
atm i can fly all gallente sub capital(except black ops, t3), same as amarr and all minni t2 ships sub BS. caldari is ok... training torps 5 for torp raven atm as i i have most other stuff trained for other races i need.
the more sp you have the easyer it gets for you to corss train. lest say you are 15m sp pure gallente.... training amarr to the same level would only take a few months (bs, cruiser, frig 5 guns 5 etc) because they use the same kind of support skills :)
just my pointless 2 cents
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Fighting for something
Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Ritzenhoff
Gallente
Fabian Strategy
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Posted - 2009.06.30 13:52:00 -
[12]
I'm Gallente too and have cross-trained to try different play styles with different ships. Much more interesting! I would say do it.
I went for Amarr first because your gunnery and armor tanking skills are all used, except the rail-specific skills. Not much extra to learn on top of the time to train the ships up, though.
I'm working on Minmatar next, although most of their ships are shield tanked so a bit more to learn, but gunnery is still important. Also started me on missiles which I never trained at all before.
Caldari will be last, I know they use rails but most ships use missiles, and they shield tank.
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Dark Voynix
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.06.30 13:53:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dark Voynix on 30/06/2009 13:53:25
i focused gallente, and pvp only. Went good quite quickly on some ships, and even then i continued to focus in order to be highly efficient with some ships. I avoided all capitals/industrials etc skills.
Just recently started to train minnie, but tht0s after 32M skillpoint in a very focused gallente char, and the main reason was that there's not much left to train to improve my gallente effectiveness ( capitals are not an option for me).
imho stick gallente... max your drone skills and gunnery skills ... stats 15M skillpoints alone ...
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Arvald
Caldari
Letiferi Praedones
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Posted - 2009.06.30 14:00:00 -
[14]
train whatever you want, in my opinion its not worth training over a month for a 2% advantage in something, i fly all subcap t1 and most sub bs t2 and i gotta say it makes you a hell of alot more useful in small gangs (can easily change role to fit what is needed) and it makes the game a lot more fun as it dosent get boring. but thats all my opinion
ok but seriously, next person that derails my thread gets a railroad spike shoved through their neck |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.06.30 14:07:00 -
[15]
I am very solid in amarr (bs5, cruiser 5, tech 2 guns), and getting there with gallente (cruiser 5, and tech 2 medium guns), probably work on either gallente bs 5/tech2 large hybrids, or start on minmatar training next.
as well as I started caldari so I have a bit of caldari training too.
although I have 45mil sp now. so if you focus on just frigs and/or cruisers for both races. both use gunnery, so the support skills are the same, just need to learn the racial ship types, and guns. both can also armor tank on most ships. and both will use tech 2 scout drones. eventually you will want to train shield skills.
at first specialize in one race. frigate 5, and tech 2 small guns is a fairly quick train. once you get to there feel free to branch out. hopefully by the time you get frig 5, cruiser 5, battle cruiser 4 (or 5 if you like bcs), and tech 2 medium blasters and projectiles. you will know more of what you want out of eve. and picking a specilization from there should be an easier choice.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.06.30 14:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Arvald
train whatever you want, in my opinion its not worth training over a month for a 2% advantage in something, i fly all subcap t1 and most sub bs t2 and i gotta say it makes you a hell of alot more useful in small gangs (can easily change role to fit what is needed) and it makes the game a lot more fun as it dosent get boring. but thats all my opinion
yea this! (as seen above I'm starting to work towards everything)
versatile is good, but over extending just isn't fun.
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Cambarus
Clearly Compensating
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Posted - 2009.06.30 14:10:00 -
[17]
My advice is this:
Pick a ship you want to fly, and train for it. Don't worry about what race it is, because eventually you'll have trained most races up anyway. Don't limit yourself from any race just because you havn't trained it yet, if there's a ship you wanna fly, fly it. |
AstroPhobic
Darkest Depths
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Posted - 2009.06.30 14:20:00 -
[18]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 30/06/2009 14:22:04
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Arvald
train whatever you want, in my opinion its not worth training over a month for a 2% advantage in something, i fly all subcap t1 and most sub bs t2 and i gotta say it makes you a hell of alot more useful in small gangs (can easily change role to fit what is needed) and it makes the game a lot more fun as it dosent get boring. but thats all my opinion
yea this! (as seen above I'm starting to work towards everything)
versatile is good, but over extending just isn't fun.
My opinion too. I'm just coming up on 40m SP and I can fly all subcap minnie and amarr (besides dictors, **** 'em). I can also fly gall frigs t2, and after I touch up on some skills I've been ignoring I'll probably train up the entire cald/gal t1 line.
edit: This will allow me to train torps 5 for both the raven, typhoon, and potentially nag if I ever buy one. Large hybrids will allow both the Rokh and the gal BS lineup, and drone skills that I'd train for the domi would end up helping me towards a carrier or improve my phoon fit. Once you kinda get to that stage, everything works towards multiple ships, and IMO your SP is worth a lot more.
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Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
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Posted - 2009.06.30 14:24:00 -
[19]
The "easiest" race to cross train into is Minmatar. For every other race you make do with:
- Caldari: Missiles and some drones (real pilots go for rails of course)
- Amarr: Guns and drones
- Gallente: Drones and Guns.
but for Minmatar its something like:
- Guns, missiles, drones
This means that after training every other race you have the basics of Minmatar skills. Gallente and Amarr is also a good cross train because they shared the controlled burst gunnery skill need and can somewhat ignore trajectory analysis (which is essential for minmatar).
In order of what is easiest for each race to cross train into I would say:
Gallente to Amarr and vise versa
Caldari to Minmatar and vise versa
Minmatar only have to train other race ship skills and race specific guns... very comfy once you finally have the minmatar skills.
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Cherab
Minmatar
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:40:00 -
[20]
Ye Minmatar ships shouldn't take too long, T2 shield tanking and the guns and your sorted (assuming you have your Gallente support skills trained) You only would want to train up as far as cruiser ships/guns anyway as minny BS are sh*t 
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Absalom Marathon
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:42:00 -
[21]
I started crosstraining my gallente char for amarr ships at roughly 25 mil sp. now at like 38 mil I felt it was a good decision. You'll get bored too fast w just one race, then again, some ppl like to take that time to train caps instead. Just do as you please, but don't do it before 20 mil, or rather 30 mil, sp.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:46:00 -
[22]
I got 20M SP, and imo I have just started on Caldari ^^. I invested quite a lot of SP into the basics tho, and its definatly worth it long term. Such as getting perfet fitting and energy skills, and now perfect shiled skills.
And when I got "perfect" missile skills as well, I will train a new race, I guess in 10 to 20 Mill more SP ^^.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:49:00 -
[23]
Two races? No.
FOUR races? YEAAAHHHH BOIIII
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Mikayla Grey
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.30 17:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tussah
What's the general consensus on training two races? Is it good to have flexibility to choose the best ship for each role, or does the skill distribution mean that you're not as effective as someone who focuses just on one race?
For context, I'm Gallente, and I'm thinking about perhaps learning to fly Minmatar as well.
Train amarr. Its easy if you got normal gallente skills, and dont be surprised if you never use any gallente ships except perhaps the domi again.
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Johnny Ringo
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 17:48:00 -
[25]
My advice: if you think you might ever be called upon to shoot at a POS in anything less than a dreadnaught, train Amarr BS to at least lvl 4. You'll save a crapload of money on ammo.
Plus, lasers are just cooler than anything else. C'mon - it's a spaceship game. You gotta have lasers.
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De Guantanamo
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Posted - 2009.06.30 18:46:00 -
[26]
Edited by: De Guantanamo on 30/06/2009 18:47:16
Dunno if its been said above, didn't read all the responses but...
If you plan on chilling in smaller ships, T1 frigs, assault ships, inties, T1 cruisers, I don't see anything wrong with training up a second race for Frigate 5 or racial cruiser to 4 with respective cruiser sized weapon to 4.
For instance if you have lvl 4 support skills and can pilot a taranis/ishkur reasonably well, training up Minmatar Frigate 5 and T2 small autocannons will allow you access to 2 more pretty decent ships. As for tanking, you should already have a few of the shield skills trained up for reasons of buffer on your armor tanked ships (every little bit helps in itsy bitsy ships).
I would not cross train before getting all necessary support skills to at least lvl 4 first tho and training overheating.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:11:00 -
[27]
Yeah - on two accounts so you can have all the benefits :D
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Wideen
Warped Mining
Strip Mining Club
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:47:00 -
[28]
I trained all four races to a certain extent, one race large guns, another carrier, two others hacs/recons/CSs etc.
In some aspects it's unfortunate because I will never do one specialized thing as well as let's say someone who stuck to one race and became damn good at it.
The upside is that if you try them all you know what you like the best and have a good frame of reference when deciding upon what to fly most frequently. And you do get a good all around knowledge of your opponent's ship's strengths and weaknesses.
To sum it up for me:
Amarr: Liked it the best
Minmatar: Liked their BS, hence I settled for their carrier which I'm very happy with
Caldari: Have some very nice ships that I keep returning to from time to time
Gallente: Flown the least in all aspects except for the Ishtar and Dominix, awesome ships.
Just go with what you feel like, but like most people suggest, do something well first before moving on, it took me ages to be efficient at anything despite being able to pilot almost all ships.
GL
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THEDON1
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.06.30 22:52:00 -
[29]
4 races is win
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RC Denton
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Posted - 2009.06.30 23:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tussah
What's the general consensus on training two races? Is it good to have flexibility to choose the best ship for each role, or does the skill distribution mean that you're not as effective as someone who focuses just on one race?
For context, I'm Gallente, and I'm thinking about perhaps learning to fly Minmatar as well.
Probably already been said but CBA to read the whole thread. When you cross train your first race it's good to do it with a race that can benefit from your support skills. So like you wouldn't want to have spent a bunch of time training caldari and then moved to Amarr.
As Gallente though alot of your support stuff like armor tanking and the gunnery support stuff can be moved over to Amarr. Minmatar is a bit grab baggy with dual tank types and dual weapons.
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