Originally by: Stevie Wonder

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Wtf is Ghost fleet ?

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Originally by: Stevie Wonder

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Wtf is Ghost fleet ?

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Originally by: Stevie Wonder

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Wtf is Ghost fleet ?

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Originally by: Stevie Wonder

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Wtf is Ghost fleet ?

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Originally by: Skelator

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Originally by: Stevie Wonder

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Wtf is Ghost fleet ?

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Any CA Enemies Worst Nightmare

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Originally by: Skelator

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Originally by: Stevie Wonder

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Wtf is Ghost fleet ?

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Any CA Enemies Worst Nightmare

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Originally by: XeQtR

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riight
Last I heard Xirt in TS he was yelling orders left and right just as we've all come to expect.
"LOCK THAT VELDSPAR ROID" "ACTIVATE MINING LASERS" etc.
*runs from xirt

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Originally by: XeQtR

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riight
Last I heard Xirt in TS he was yelling orders left and right just as we've all come to expect.
"LOCK THAT VELDSPAR ROID" "ACTIVATE MINING LASERS" etc.
*runs from xirt

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Originally by: Chowdown

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You will struggle to find a pvper with a problem with Foyle. Its more the carebear ebay type that draw issue.

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Originally by: Chowdown

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You will struggle to find a pvper with a problem with Foyle. Its more the carebear ebay type that draw issue.

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Originally by: Chowdown

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It was wildhope, and his obession with Baileys Ice cream has not subsided.

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Originally by: Chowdown

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It was wildhope, and his obession with Baileys Ice cream has not subsided.

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Originally by: Lianhaun

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Originally by: Chowdown

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It was wildhope, and his obession with Baileys Ice cream has not subsided.

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Its still not avaliable in Holland and that still ****es me off alot.

Hopefully people can return to the topic otherwise I unintentionally hijacked another thread.

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Originally by: Lianhaun

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Originally by: Chowdown

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It was wildhope, and his obession with Baileys Ice cream has not subsided.

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Its still not avaliable in Holland and that still ****es me off alot.

Hopefully people can return to the topic otherwise I unintentionally hijacked another thread.

---

Originally by: XirtamVotf

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Heloo! I am very busy ATM with a family member that
has cancer and is near death, and I have been trying to help with that, NO one has tried to ursurp anyones power.

The people that knew this was also Cap H,and alot of the counselors as well, my family (my younger brother) was more important than eve.

IT has been rough doing this, and taxes my entire family to get through this, so I havent been on due to this.

But I will remain in game as much as possible, and the people that are war counselors have done a good job in my absence, I wouldnt have expected any less
from them, the security of CA is the first rule.

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Originally by: XirtamVotf

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Heloo! I am very busy ATM with a family member that
has cancer and is near death, and I have been trying to help with that, NO one has tried to ursurp anyones power.

The people that knew this was also Cap H,and alot of the counselors as well, my family (my younger brother) was more important than eve.

IT has been rough doing this, and taxes my entire family to get through this, so I havent been on due to this.

But I will remain in game as much as possible, and the people that are war counselors have done a good job in my absence, I wouldnt have expected any less
from them, the security of CA is the first rule.

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Originally by: Chowdown

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You will struggle to find a pvper with a problem with Foyle. Its more the carebear ebay type that draw issue.

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Originally by: Chowdown

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You will struggle to find a pvper with a problem with Foyle. Its more the carebear ebay type that draw issue.

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Originally by: XirtamVotf

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Thx guys , this has really taxed my family, and still is, but we will get through it.
I appreciate all your support.

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Originally by: XirtamVotf

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Thx guys , this has really taxed my family, and still is, but we will get through it.
I appreciate all your support.

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Originally by: Lianhaun

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The way I see it based on the information on the boards Xir is busy with who knows what. Foyle and Duke stepped up to take his place.
Foyle gets absolutly no respect from some corporations.
I wonder why this is, I never had the pleasure to talk to her but from what I've understood she more occupied with production and research then pvp.
The people that seem to complain or sound somewhat bitter to me about Foyle are mainly pvpers ( again this is taken from the forum).

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Originally by: Lianhaun

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The way I see it based on the information on the boards Xir is busy with who knows what. Foyle and Duke stepped up to take his place.
Foyle gets absolutly no respect from some corporations.
I wonder why this is, I never had the pleasure to talk to her but from what I've understood she more occupied with production and research then pvp.
The people that seem to complain or sound somewhat bitter to me about Foyle are mainly pvpers ( again this is taken from the forum).

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Quote:

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Could it be that some people are annoyed that a women is in charge who is not afraid to speak her mind while producing your new ship

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Quote:

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Could it be that some people are annoyed that a women is in charge who is not afraid to speak her mind while producing your new ship

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Originally by: XeQtR

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Quote:

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Could it be that some people are annoyed that a women is in charge who is not afraid to speak her mind while producing your new ship

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Wouldn't surprise me if that's actually the case to be honest.

Foyle DOES have a hell of a temper though and I guess that might have scared ppl too
But as suggested by more insightful posters she is mainly occupied with production / administration and doing a helluva job at it as far as I know. I'm still confused as to where all these "Foyle and Duke conspiracytheories" comes from.

I would also like to add that Xirt led an op in to DSS about 2 hours ago so he seems to have something to say in the matters still.

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Originally by: XeQtR

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Quote:

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Could it be that some people are annoyed that a women is in charge who is not afraid to speak her mind while producing your new ship

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Wouldn't surprise me if that's actually the case to be honest.

Foyle DOES have a hell of a temper though and I guess that might have scared ppl too
But as suggested by more insightful posters she is mainly occupied with production / administration and doing a helluva job at it as far as I know. I'm still confused as to where all these "Foyle and Duke conspiracytheories" comes from.

I would also like to add that Xirt led an op in to DSS about 2 hours ago so he seems to have something to say in the matters still.

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Originally by: HavokTBP

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Edited by: HavokTBP on 21/09/2004 00:44:08

Originally by: XeQtR

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Quote:

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Could it be that some people are annoyed that a women is in charge who is not afraid to speak her mind while producing your new ship

---

Wouldn't surprise me if that's actually the case to be honest.

Foyle DOES have a hell of a temper though and I guess that might have scared ppl too
But as suggested by more insightful posters she is mainly occupied with production / administration and doing a helluva job at it as far as I know. I'm still confused as to where all these "Foyle and Duke conspiracytheories" comes from.

I would also like to add that Xirt led an op in to DSS about 2 hours ago so he seems to have something to say in the matters still.

---

Well here's a question for you XeQTR, being that CA is a PVP alliance, what does give her so much power over everyone to ban anyone she doesn't like whenever she feels like it? She doesn't PVP, so theres a conflit of interests here. She builds things? LOL EVERYONE BUILT THINGS when they had to, so um what makes her so special?

Her temper comes from where she lives, btw.

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Originally by: HavokTBP

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Edited by: HavokTBP on 21/09/2004 00:44:08

Originally by: XeQtR

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Quote:

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Could it be that some people are annoyed that a women is in charge who is not afraid to speak her mind while producing your new ship

---

Wouldn't surprise me if that's actually the case to be honest.

Foyle DOES have a hell of a temper though and I guess that might have scared ppl too
But as suggested by more insightful posters she is mainly occupied with production / administration and doing a helluva job at it as far as I know. I'm still confused as to where all these "Foyle and Duke conspiracytheories" comes from.

I would also like to add that Xirt led an op in to DSS about 2 hours ago so he seems to have something to say in the matters still.

---

Well here's a question for you XeQTR, being that CA is a PVP alliance, what does give her so much power over everyone to ban anyone she doesn't like whenever she feels like it? She doesn't PVP, so theres a conflit of interests here. She builds things? LOL EVERYONE BUILT THINGS when they had to, so um what makes her so special?

Her temper comes from where she lives, btw.

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Originally by: TIvian

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*clears his throat*

The Dark Lord has made his presence known!!!

ALL HAIL THE DARK LORD OF CURSE!!!

BOW YOUR HEADS YOU LOWLY DOGS!!! LEAST YOU FEEL THE WRATH OF OUR GREAT LORD AND HIS ANGER!!!!

Havok STFU and climb under your rock

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Originally by: TIvian

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*clears his throat*

The Dark Lord has made his presence known!!!

ALL HAIL THE DARK LORD OF CURSE!!!

BOW YOUR HEADS YOU LOWLY DOGS!!! LEAST YOU FEEL THE WRATH OF OUR GREAT LORD AND HIS ANGER!!!!

Havok STFU and climb under your rock

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HAVOK YOU N00B!!!

HAVOK YOU N00B!!!

Originally by: Propehcy

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/me shakes head slowly

Ok tiv, a little less coffee, and a little more sleep, eh mate? , oh, and don't forget your meds.

-Chancellor Prophecy

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Originally by: Propehcy

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/me shakes head slowly

Ok tiv, a little less coffee, and a little more sleep, eh mate? , oh, and don't forget your meds.

-Chancellor Prophecy

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Originally by: Foyle

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Edited by: Foyle on 21/09/2004 05:51:58

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Originally by: Foyle

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Edited by: Foyle on 21/09/2004 05:51:58

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Originally by: HavokTBP

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I wonder what kinda drugs xirt slipped lall an chow to think they regretted me being in they're corp. I never done shinra wrong ever, an lall I think you need to talk to tancrid about that.

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Originally by: HavokTBP

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I wonder what kinda drugs xirt slipped lall an chow to think they regretted me being in they're corp. I never done shinra wrong ever, an lall I think you need to talk to tancrid about that.

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Originally by: HavokTBP

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Na just seems to me like you guys are all up on the ebay crap, an xirt says something, an oh it has to be true right?

I wonder what kinda drugs xirt slipped lall an chow to think they regretted me being in they're corp. I never done shinra wrong ever, an lall I think you need to talk to tancrid about that.

My comment was an insult to CA to think they can insult others without knowing.

Technically I couldn't even sell my account, its KOS by everyone on Eve.

Only because I haven't been proven wrong..... cept maybe with the whole evol exploit thing.... although I still don't like them anyways.

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Originally by: HavokTBP

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Na just seems to me like you guys are all up on the ebay crap, an xirt says something, an oh it has to be true right?

I wonder what kinda drugs xirt slipped lall an chow to think they regretted me being in they're corp. I never done shinra wrong ever, an lall I think you need to talk to tancrid about that.

My comment was an insult to CA to think they can insult others without knowing.

Technically I couldn't even sell my account, its KOS by everyone on Eve.

Only because I haven't been proven wrong..... cept maybe with the whole evol exploit thing.... although I still don't like them anyways.

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Originally by: Duke Droklar

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Since the CA is run by a democratic Council and has a War Council with elected CA Gemerals that have certain authorities it makes one wonder what grave injustices they are whining about. Notice they only state vague accusations without backing it up with details or facts.

1- POS controled by a CA Holding corp? Nope, nearly unanymous Council vote of approval.

2- 15% Tax rate? Nope, 20% was shot down in vote and 15% was then approved by majority vote.

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Originally by: Duke Droklar

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Since the CA is run by a democratic Council and has a War Council with elected CA Gemerals that have certain authorities it makes one wonder what grave injustices they are whining about. Notice they only state vague accusations without backing it up with details or facts.

1- POS controled by a CA Holding corp? Nope, nearly unanymous Council vote of approval.

2- 15% Tax rate? Nope, 20% was shot down in vote and 15% was then approved by majority vote.

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Originally by: Valentine Keen

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Originally by: Duke Droklar

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Since the CA is run by a democratic Council and has a War Council with elected CA Gemerals that have certain authorities it makes one wonder what grave injustices they are whining about. Notice they only state vague accusations without backing it up with details or facts.

1- POS controled by a CA Holding corp? Nope, nearly unanymous Council vote of approval.

2- 15% Tax rate? Nope, 20% was shot down in vote and 15% was then approved by majority vote.

---

The issue arises because both of these decisions and the recent removal of some member corporations were only approved by council after they had been implemented.

While they may have been good and justifiable decisions, the fact remains they should have been approved before action was taken. Anything else leads to the very pertinent question over who actually controls the policies of the alliance.

By acting without approval and then asking for people to approve it, you undermine the position of those that might oppose it and reduce the ability of members to rationally and carefully consider the proposals.

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Originally by: Valentine Keen

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Originally by: Duke Droklar

---

Since the CA is run by a democratic Council and has a War Council with elected CA Gemerals that have certain authorities it makes one wonder what grave injustices they are whining about. Notice they only state vague accusations without backing it up with details or facts.

1- POS controled by a CA Holding corp? Nope, nearly unanymous Council vote of approval.

2- 15% Tax rate? Nope, 20% was shot down in vote and 15% was then approved by majority vote.

---

The issue arises because both of these decisions and the recent removal of some member corporations were only approved by council after they had been implemented.

While they may have been good and justifiable decisions, the fact remains they should have been approved before action was taken. Anything else leads to the very pertinent question over who actually controls the policies of the alliance.

By acting without approval and then asking for people to approve it, you undermine the position of those that might oppose it and reduce the ability of members to rationally and carefully consider the proposals.

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Originally by: XeQtR

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Come on.
We've been over this. Even I have learned now how it works.
The generals have the right (A right in itself aproved by the council btw.) to take these actions if there is an emergency and there simply is no time to call a council meeting (Calling such a meeting would take at least 24 hours I'd imagine) The actions of the generals would THEN be aproved in retrospect. Now, claiming that would make it hard for some members of the council to vote against that decision is just plain wrong. If a council member doesn't have the courage to vote against the decision he shouldn't be in the council at all. With power follows hard decisions. That's the main reason I'm glad I'm NOT in the council.

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Originally by: XeQtR

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Come on.
We've been over this. Even I have learned now how it works.
The generals have the right (A right in itself aproved by the council btw.) to take these actions if there is an emergency and there simply is no time to call a council meeting (Calling such a meeting would take at least 24 hours I'd imagine) The actions of the generals would THEN be aproved in retrospect. Now, claiming that would make it hard for some members of the council to vote against that decision is just plain wrong. If a council member doesn't have the courage to vote against the decision he shouldn't be in the council at all. With power follows hard decisions. That's the main reason I'm glad I'm NOT in the council.

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Originally by: Valentine Keen

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Edited by: Valentine Keen on 21/09/2004 14:59:34

Originally by: XeQtR

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Come on.
We've been over this. Even I have learned now how it works.
The generals have the right (A right in itself aproved by the council btw.) to take these actions if there is an emergency and there simply is no time to call a council meeting (Calling such a meeting would take at least 24 hours I'd imagine) The actions of the generals would THEN be aproved in retrospect. Now, claiming that would make it hard for some members of the council to vote against that decision is just plain wrong. If a council member doesn't have the courage to vote against the decision he shouldn't be in the council at all. With power follows hard decisions. That's the main reason I'm glad I'm NOT in the council.

---

If this is the case, should not this be set out in the charter? The charter gives no mention of this authority.

As a member not part of the council, I could only abide by the rules as the alliance stated them to be. Is the understanding of the members so undervalued that the charter is left a blatant lie, only for it to have to be explained after situations like this?

As I've said in other posts, run the alliance how you will, but at least make sure it's known open and honestly. Lack of information on how the people at the top act, can only lead to mistrust when these things occur.

It is this general disregard for those not in the inner circles or associated corporations that has lead to such a level of in-fighting in the first place.

Edit:

I also fail to see what threat to life and limb waiting a day to discuss, approve and implement the taxes would have done, but again the fleet acted on it's own before the matter could be decided by the alliance as a whole.

And by doing so, they caused it to be far more of a problem, because it leaves members prone to bad decisions, such as the rate being implemented at 20% in a punitive and confrontational manner, rather than raising the idea sensibly as something that could clearly be seen, and I believe was, a good idea for the alliance as a whole.

---

Originally by: Valentine Keen

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Edited by: Valentine Keen on 21/09/2004 14:59:34

Originally by: XeQtR

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Come on.
We've been over this. Even I have learned now how it works.
The generals have the right (A right in itself aproved by the council btw.) to take these actions if there is an emergency and there simply is no time to call a council meeting (Calling such a meeting would take at least 24 hours I'd imagine) The actions of the generals would THEN be aproved in retrospect. Now, claiming that would make it hard for some members of the council to vote against that decision is just plain wrong. If a council member doesn't have the courage to vote against the decision he shouldn't be in the council at all. With power follows hard decisions. That's the main reason I'm glad I'm NOT in the council.

---

If this is the case, should not this be set out in the charter? The charter gives no mention of this authority.

As a member not part of the council, I could only abide by the rules as the alliance stated them to be. Is the understanding of the members so undervalued that the charter is left a blatant lie, only for it to have to be explained after situations like this?

As I've said in other posts, run the alliance how you will, but at least make sure it's known open and honestly. Lack of information on how the people at the top act, can only lead to mistrust when these things occur.

It is this general disregard for those not in the inner circles or associated corporations that has lead to such a level of in-fighting in the first place.

Edit:

I also fail to see what threat to life and limb waiting a day to discuss, approve and implement the taxes would have done, but again the fleet acted on it's own before the matter could be decided by the alliance as a whole.

And by doing so, they caused it to be far more of a problem, because it leaves members prone to bad decisions, such as the rate being implemented at 20% in a punitive and confrontational manner, rather than raising the idea sensibly as something that could clearly be seen, and I believe was, a good idea for the alliance as a whole.

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Originally by: The Ratfink

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xirt was never removed from power we gave him one of these and he never came back

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Originally by: The Ratfink

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xirt was never removed from power we gave him one of these and he never came back

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Originally by: Lianhaun

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Originally by: Chowdown

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It was wildhope, and his obession with Baileys Ice cream has not subsided.

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Its still not avaliable in Holland and that still ****es me off alot.

Hopefully people can return to the topic otherwise I unintentionally hijacked another thread.

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Originally by: Lianhaun

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Originally by: Chowdown

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It was wildhope, and his obession with Baileys Ice cream has not subsided.

---

Its still not avaliable in Holland and that still ****es me off alot.

Hopefully people can return to the topic otherwise I unintentionally hijacked another thread.

---

Originally by: XeQtR

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Edited by: XeQtR on 21/09/2004 16:26:04
ROFL.

As to the discussions at hand it seems to me it could be divided in to 2 separate issues:

1. Was it RIGHT to kick them, in terms of internal security?

Well. To be honest I don't know. Judging that is for the council, much as a parlament in a real life nation. I can have opinions, however I don't know enough about the background for my opinion to really be valid. It would all just get emotional. Something tells me that the posters in this and other threads that are not even members of the CA don't have more information than I do. Therefor you're intitled to you're opinions but those opinions are not really worth that much. The only entity that have had anywhere near all the facts here is the CA council and the corps involved. The corps's CEO's had a chance to reply to the accusations. The CA council still voted the way it did. making me think they probably did the right thing. Had I NOT thought that I could either have accepted the decision anyway, OR start a political campagn to make them change their minds OR I could have left the alliance on good terms. However starting flamefests on this forum would NOT have been an option. But that's just me.

2. Was it CONSTITUTIONALLY right?

According to Keen no. From what I know he might very well be right. I never read the charter since this is the first political issue that has even remotelly interested me. However, if the entire council agrees on this action I do not think it should be negated just by the fact that someone forgot to put a paragraph on a little document. After all it's a game and none of us (I assume) are proffesional politicans. To ignore the constitution in a country is a HUGE matter. To make a mistake about it in a game can also be pretty bad. In this matter though, since the council DID get to vote on the matter I don't think a possible failure to update the charter is really worth all these threads and posts.

NOw I have a headache I hate trying to argue in a foregn language

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Originally by: XeQtR

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Edited by: XeQtR on 21/09/2004 16:26:04
ROFL.

As to the discussions at hand it seems to me it could be divided in to 2 separate issues:

1. Was it RIGHT to kick them, in terms of internal security?

Well. To be honest I don't know. Judging that is for the council, much as a parlament in a real life nation. I can have opinions, however I don't know enough about the background for my opinion to really be valid. It would all just get emotional. Something tells me that the posters in this and other threads that are not even members of the CA don't have more information than I do. Therefor you're intitled to you're opinions but those opinions are not really worth that much. The only entity that have had anywhere near all the facts here is the CA council and the corps involved. The corps's CEO's had a chance to reply to the accusations. The CA council still voted the way it did. making me think they probably did the right thing. Had I NOT thought that I could either have accepted the decision anyway, OR start a political campagn to make them change their minds OR I could have left the alliance on good terms. However starting flamefests on this forum would NOT have been an option. But that's just me.

2. Was it CONSTITUTIONALLY right?

According to Keen no. From what I know he might very well be right. I never read the charter since this is the first political issue that has even remotelly interested me. However, if the entire council agrees on this action I do not think it should be negated just by the fact that someone forgot to put a paragraph on a little document. After all it's a game and none of us (I assume) are proffesional politicans. To ignore the constitution in a country is a HUGE matter. To make a mistake about it in a game can also be pretty bad. In this matter though, since the council DID get to vote on the matter I don't think a possible failure to update the charter is really worth all these threads and posts.

NOw I have a headache I hate trying to argue in a foregn language

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