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Aus Dog	Posted - 2009.06.27 07:36:00 - [1] Can't speak to PVP as I haven't but PVE is either changing or my perseption is getting more honed. CCP seems to be "enforcing the rules" about this weapon working at this range and no leeway. The "Don't Mix Guns" rule seems to be out as (at least in Level 3) they are bringing fast frigates in close and even a tuned down Pulse laser won't touch them. You have to have weapons to hit the NPC's at 75 km down to under 1000m. I realize drones could cover the close work but without drones (not trained up yet) my Mal (Maelstrom) has 3 Cruise Launchers, two Med crystal lasers and two 220mm cannon for close up. Four Med crystal lasers used to cover from 30 km all the way down.It seems that now they are drawing the dividing lines for weapons more rigidly. Now once the frigates pass 2000m you can waste ammo all day but unless you have drones up to the task then you have to have another weapon for inside 2000m. IRL a gun will kill you just as dead at half a mile as at 25yds. It's silly to have such rigid zones of weapon viability but that's where it seems to be. "Owning a dog teaches a child Honesty, Loyalty, and to always circle three times before lying down".....Mark Twain
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.27 08:06:00 - [2] Welcome to tracking. And contract your maelstrom over to me for having such a terrible setup.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.27 08:08:00 - [3] Originally by: Aus Dog The "Don't Mix Guns" rule seems to be out as (at least in Level 3) No, not at all. Don't Mix Guns was never based on "...because one type of gun can hit everything". EVE has always had a rock-paper-scissors approach. The rule is based around the fact that if you do mix guns, you'll be mediocre at all ranges - it's much better to fit solidly for a tactic and about ensuring you fly so as to bring your advantage to bear. Quote: I realize drones could cover the close work but without drones (not trained up yet) my Mal (Maelstrom) Stop right there - drones are essential for solo battleship work, for exactly the reason you mentioned. If you're going to fit large weapons, you won't be able to hit small things with them, so you will need drones or an anti-support wingman. If you don't fit large weapons, there's not much point in flying a battleship (broadly speaking, for PvE at least). The problem is not with EVE, it's with how you're fitting and flying your ships. It would be like cross-training to Caldari but not training any missile or shield skills, and then complaining that their ships suck. Drones are fundamental to the functioning of battleships (every BS has at least 75 drone bay and bandwidth) and it was foolish of you not to include them in your training plan. I would suggest you train them immediately, they're useful on just about all ships. By the way, trying to say that large turrets should be able to hit small frigates in orbit is just ridiculous, as it would mean no-one would fly anything other than battleships, which would promote blobbing even more as well as invalidate the role of younger players (can't fly anything bigger than a cruiser? Then you'll be dead within a couple of volleys). Quote: my Mal (Maelstrom) has 3 Cruise Launchers, two Med crystal lasers and two 220mm cannon for close up. Oh god, I wish you had stopped, that's horrible. Do you realise that the Mael gets a bonus to large projectile turret damage? You're also missing a hardpoint, as well as fitting only 3 large weapons which are the weakest large weapons in the game. How much damage do you get out of that, is it even 200 DPS? I don't think you'd be able to kill NPC battleships with that. You know, you'd probably do more damage with a Hurricane with arties and heavy missile launchers (or even a Cyclone if you really want to shield tank), especially against the sub-BS enemies you'll encounter in level 3s. Quote: IRL a gun will kill you just as dead at half a mile as at 25yds. It's silly to have such rigid zones of weapon viability but that's where it seems to be. 1) EVE is a game, not a simulation, so the mechanics will reflect thing that create fun/challenging situations, rather than reality. 2) Taking out things half a mile away with a heavy .50cal sniper rifle is fairly straightforward; now imagine trying to storm a building with lots of narrow stairwells and being corridors etc. with the same heavy rifle; an SMG or even better a handgun would be much much better in this situation (less "damage" and range, but more "tracking"). Sounds exactly like how EVE turrets work to me.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.06.27 08:13:00 - [4] ITT: new pilot rushing into a big ship without SP, experience or knowledge. Then finds there's "issues" and gives his opinion on how wrong the game and everyone else is because of it.
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.06.27 08:14:00 - [5] Edited by: Gneeznow on 27/06/2009 08:14:24 your problem is you're using medium autocannos for close up work, you should fit some 75mm gattling rails for that because they track so fast, then use the cruise launchers for long range and some beam lasers for mid range, tadaaa! the perfect mission maelstrom edit: grammar
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.27 10:53:00 - [6] cuz like I'm going to call in an artillery strike like 50 yards away. next week I'm going to covertly target paint a target for a nuclear assault too!
Nocturnal Avenger x13	Posted - 2009.06.27 11:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton cuz like I'm going to call in an artillery strike like 50 yards away. next week I'm going to covertly target paint a target for a nuclear assault too! After that - can I please have your stuff? - Carebear Pirate -
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.27 11:04:00 - [8] Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 27/06/2009 11:04:52 Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton cuz like I'm going to call in an artillery strike like 50 yards away. next week I'm going to covertly target paint a target for a nuclear assault too! After that - can I please have your stuff? no, I'm going to need it for sexy parties on the beach! ~~I'm totally not going to die and take one for the team on this one!~~ I'm going to be a hero for this one! heros get lotsa sexy ladies right?!?!?!
Gin G Halls Of Valhalla	Posted - 2009.06.27 11:06:00 - [9] Mal (Maelstrom) has 3 Cruise Launchers, two Med crystal lasers and two 220mm cannon for close up. Four Med crystal lasers used to cover from 30 km all the way down your just not ready yet Note that the signature has to be related to EVE Online. COMMIS FOR YOU
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.06.27 13:32:00 - [10] Learn to format.Its hard read when everything is one big blob. Its makes everyone unhappy. Less people end up answering your post and thus it is less effective. I personally find it quite annoying and hope you never do it again. Ok? Good. Here is a simple explanation of of how to format posts so people will read them. http://www.socmedia101.com/2009/06/blogging-how-to-format-your-posts-so-people-will-read-them/ I hope you do better next time and follow this advice. Are you still reading this? I doubt it. Im a bit surprised you recieved as mnay answers as you did. Anyway, once again I hate your post.
Ichandasil Minmatar Department of Defence	Posted - 2009.06.27 14:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Aus Dog Can't speak to PVP as I haven't but PVE is either changing or my perseption is getting more honed. CCP seems to be "enforcing the rules" about this weapon working at this range and no leeway. The "Don't Mix Guns" rule seems to be out as (at least in Level 3) they are bringing fast frigates in close and even a tuned down Pulse laser won't touch them. You have to have weapons to hit the NPC's at 75 km down to under 1000m. I realize drones could cover the close work but without drones (not trained up yet) my Mal (Maelstrom) has 3 Cruise Launchers, two Med crystal lasers and two 220mm cannon for close up. Four Med crystal lasers used to cover from 30 km all the way down.It seems that now they are drawing the dividing lines for weapons more rigidly. Now once the frigates pass 2000m you can waste ammo all day but unless you have drones up to the task then you have to have another weapon for inside 2000m. IRL a gun will kill you just as dead at half a mile as at 25yds. It's silly to have such rigid zones of weapon viability but that's where it seems to be. You're a too low skill point player, using an oversized ship for your mission, with craptastic fittings and little helpful knowledge complaining that the game is broken. You posted before about your battleship plans and the replies were full of good advice and it looks like you ignored it all. It's an over used statement but you are a prime example of an epic fail
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2009.06.27 15:02:00 - [12] All weapons are divided into four size categories: small, medium, large, and extra-large. Small weapons are for frigates and destroyers (both to mount on and shoot at). Medium weapons are for cruisers and battlecruisers. Large weapons are for battleships, and XL weapons are for dreadnoughts. You're not only mixing short and long ranged weapons, you're mixing sizes as well. Some people prefer to use battleships when blitzing level 3 missions, but if you do so you need to fit all medium weapons on it. It's rare to see a battleship as a foe in a level 3. There are a few missions that have them, but the majority you'll only be facing battlecruisers on down. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.06.28 01:52:00 - [13] Originally by: Gartel Reiman (every BS has at least 75 drone bay and bandwidth) While I agree with your points at large I believe the Rokh only has 50/50 bay/bandwidth __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.06.28 02:29:00 - [14] Originally by: Aus Dog I realize drones could cover the close work but without drones (not trained up yet) So what the @#%@#$^@#^ are you waiting for ? Drones 5, Drone Interfacing 3, Combat Drone Operation 3, Scout Drone Operation 3+ - it's less than a week's worth of training for just about anybody.
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr SPORADIC MOVEMENT Cult of War	Posted - 2009.06.28 02:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Tzar'rim ITT: new pilot rushing into a big ship without SP, experience or knowledge. Then finds there's "issues" and gives his opinion on how wrong the game and everyone else is because of it. ^^This It is mentioned in this thread that you've allready come to the EVE-O forums looking for advice and you have turned it down/ignored it so meh, you Sir (the OP) are Epic Fail.
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.28 02:57:00 - [16] Wait, your Mael is fitted with what? I'm in pain. I believe the weapon you're looking for is called a heavy missile launcher, btw.
M's Echo	Posted - 2009.06.29 18:46:00 - [17] I'm not going to mention game related issues you bring up in your post. I think others have already covered that quite well. I do want to talk about this statement though. Originally by: Aus Dog IRL a gun will kill you just as dead at half a mile as at 25yds. It's silly to have such rigid zones of weapon viability but that's where it seems to be. Obviously you do not know what your talking about here. Consider studying a bit of terminal ballistics stats before making a statement like that. First of all you're lumping all RL firearms into a single category. Someone else wisely described a situational analogy about choosing the right gun for the job earlier. I would also like to bring up that the velocity of a projectile begins to slow as soon as it leaves the barrell. Handgun caliber rounds are very prone to this due to their comparatively heavy payloads, generally less aerodynamic profile and lower initial velocity. For instance the average barrel velocity of a .45 ACP round is approx. 850 fps this often drops by 100 fps within the first 50 yrds. I dare say at a range of 1/2 mile (provided of coarse you could actually hit) there would be little enough velocity left to achieve adaquete penetration to hit a vital organ and kill someone. A .223 rifle rounds velocity will not degrade so fast however, at ranges of say a mile, again will likely only cause a minor wound. There are certainly some physics issues in EVE, it is a game and it is not perfect. However among the many issues the turret and missile systems are not really among them in my opinion. If you want to bring up an issue that defies logic lets talk about how a ship can be remote repped to the point of healing every bit of damage (and effectively be invincible) 10+ battleships are dishing out.
Sharp Feather Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.29 19:01:00 - [18] Im amazed that you people always call for trolls when the OP is obviously not and you dont when this one is obviously a troll. Clap,clap,clap. ================================================= Before: Developers loved games and made money. Now: Developers love money and make games.
Elric Redeye Ex Coelis	Posted - 2009.06.29 19:43:00 - [19] I think you might be yanking our chain, as in your other thread. Otherwise Eve is just too hard for you (standard "go back to WoW" response).
Jauqs Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.29 20:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig Originally by: Tzar'rim ITT: new pilot rushing into a big ship without SP, experience or knowledge. Then finds there's "issues" and gives his opinion on how wrong the game and everyone else is because of it. ^^This It is mentioned in this thread that you've allready come to the EVE-O forums looking for advice and you have turned it down/ignored it so meh, you Sir (the OP) are Epic Fail. ^^This Aus Dog does this repeatedly, claims EVE is bugged/screwed/messed up/sucky because his perfect (read: LOLFail fit) ship doesn't work. My advice to Aus Dog is to TRY and take some of the advice given here and everytime you think you have found a bug/error/failure of EVE to post ... just let it go.
Tippia Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.29 21:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Aus Dog IRL a gun will kill you just as dead at half a mile as at 25yds. Let me guess: they said so on TV? As it happens, reality is rather unrealistic, especially in regards to death from bullet wounds… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
SIlhohuette	Posted - 2009.06.29 23:00:00 - [22] Quote: Obviously you do not know what your talking about here. Consider studying a bit of terminal ballistics stats before making a statement like that. First of all you're lumping all RL firearms into a single category. Someone else wisely described a situational analogy about choosing the right gun for the job earlier. I would also like to bring up that the velocity of a projectile begins to slow as soon as it leaves the barrell. Handgun caliber rounds are very prone to this due to their comparatively heavy payloads, generally less aerodynamic profile and lower initial velocity. For instance the average barrel velocity of a .45 ACP round is approx. 850 fps this often drops by 100 fps within the first 50 yrds. I dare say at a range of 1/2 mile (provided of coarse you could actually hit) there would be little enough velocity left to achieve adaquete penetration to hit a vital organ and kill someone. A .223 rifle rounds velocity will not degrade so fast however, at ranges of say a mile, again will likely only cause a minor wound. There are certainly some physics issues in EVE, it is a game and it is not perfect. However among the many issues the turret and missile systems are not really among them in my opinion. If you want to bring up an issue that defies logic lets talk about how a ship can be remote repped to the point of healing every bit of damage (and effectively be invincible) 10+ battleships are dishing out. Crazy-ness, I was thinking the same thing
Mikayla Grey Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.30 00:18:00 - [23] My maelstrom was equipped with the following?
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.06.30 02:23:00 - [24] Is this a troll?
Drakarin Gallente Amarrian-Guard	Posted - 2009.06.30 09:05:00 - [25] Unfortunately you're issue is with drones. Not having them. The game is extremely heavy on drone usage, they're very powerful and without them PvE is a joke.
Aeneidae Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.06.30 10:28:00 - [26] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Aus Dog I realize drones could cover the close work but without drones (not trained up yet) So what the @#%@#$^@#^ are you waiting for ? Drones 5, Drone Interfacing 3, Combat Drone Operation 3, Scout Drone Operation 3+ - it's less than a week's worth of training for just about anybody. Yup. Noob Raven pilot here also, but after 8 days i have: Drones 5 Drone Interfacing 3 Combat Drone Operation 3 Scout Drone Operation 5 Gallente Drone 1 (training 2 now) And i must say that seeing my Hob II ripping frigates up in 3 salvoes makes my insides go all warm and fuzzy. :)
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.30 10:48:00 - [27] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Aus Dog IRL a gun will kill you just as dead at half a mile as at 25yds. Let me guess: they said so on TV? As it happens, reality is rather unrealistic, especially in regards to death from bullet woundsà yea sure it will... if it hits, and in the right spots and whatnot
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.30 11:00:00 - [28] Edited by: Durzel on 30/06/2009 11:00:32 Originally by: Aus Dog You have to have weapons to hit the NPC's at 75 km down to under 1000m. I realize drones could cover the close work but without drones (not trained up yet) Without drones you can't hit small ships at short distances with oversized guns. This isn't a relevation, it's "working as intended". If you haven't got sufficient drone skills you shouldn't be running missions you can't handle. e: Beaten several times.

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