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RIP Freeform Contracts

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Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.06.29 07:17:00 - [31] Originally by: Shade Millith I can kinda see why they're removing the freeforms Other than scamming, what's the point of HAVING freeforms? It was a mechanic added to assist in RPing. As there aren't to many RP dedicated alliances anymore they have outlived their usefulness. Also, SNIPA!
Shade Millith International House of PWNCakes Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.29 07:39:00 - [32] Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Shade Millith I can kinda see why they're removing the freeforms Other than scamming, what's the point of HAVING freeforms? It was a mechanic added to assist in RPing. As there aren't to many RP dedicated alliances anymore they have outlived their usefulness. Also, SNIPA! Ah, that makes sense. I was always wondering why they were in game. --------------------------------------------
Kiera Temman Amarr Uba Corps Enterprises	Posted - 2009.06.29 12:11:00 - [33] Originally by: Shade Millith Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Shade Millith I can kinda see why they're removing the freeforms Other than scamming, what's the point of HAVING freeforms? It was a mechanic added to assist in RPing. As there aren't to many RP dedicated alliances anymore they have outlived their usefulness. Also, SNIPA! Ah, that makes sense. I was always wondering why they were in game. Again, missing the point. Long ago CCP introduced freeform contracts with a single purpose in mind... ...so they could subsequently remove them, creating a thread of mourning for them in C&P JUST so Lana can post snipes. and there you have it, Eve is not a game about internet spaceships, it is a mass global conspiracy to encourage lana sniping threads... now, if i could only stop myself being hunted by those who wish to silence the truth... -KT
Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.06.29 12:44:00 - [34] Originally by: Kiera Temman Long ago CCP introduced freeform contracts with a single purpose in mind... ...so they could subsequently remove them, creating a thread of mourning for them in C&P JUST so Lana can post snipes. and there you have it, Eve is not a game about internet spaceships, it is a mass global conspiracy to encourage lana sniping threads... now, if i could only stop myself being hunted by those who wish to silence the truth... -KT I am the Alpha.. and the Omega..
Miney Prospector Caldari Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.06.29 12:46:00 - [35] What bothers me about the removal of freeforms is the principalities of the thing. I have read in the past over and over about how CCP has no plans to remove them from the game, blah blah blah. Well, now that they are removing them I wonder what will be next in the CCP sniper scope that they have said over and over again they won't remove/tamper with. They try to pander to the pvp crowd in their smugness about how tough the eve universe is but all they appear to be doing is watering the game down. It's pretty much the sign of the end approaching as historically mmos do not survive being changed from the original product. I hope it isn't the case but it won't be the first time I've seen it happen. I'm not saying anything, I'm just sayin'
Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.06.29 12:47:00 - [36] Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Dragon Greg Plenty of other means to scam around still. Including the normal item exchange type contract. I'm guessing the freeform type change might be related to the common use to scam with or for plexes, which carry a common sentiment of "having to do with real money since they represent a monetary value in the eye of the victim / beholder / whatever". I doubt we'll find out however, CCP are never very forthcoming with information on such matters or changes, and tbh, they don't have to. In recent times the freeform has carried SO MANY warnings that to fall for a freeform you would have to be pretty much almost incapable of independent thought. Given that people still do fall for them the only way CCP could possibly stop these people from getting their ISK taken away from them would be to ban scamming under the EULA. Freeforms have always been tough to pull off and its only gotten harder with time. Its MUCH easier to just sell someone a PLEX for 1.3b by claiming its really 4 PLEXs.. (I prefer the buying 2 for the price of 1 scam anyway) My point was however that removing freeforms at this point pretty much accomplishes nothing either way except that it shows the CCP _MAY_ be moving toward a more WOW like stance on abusing (but not breaking) in game mechanics. If this were to happen I believe that many of the older players will start to quit as its only a short stones throw from banning scams to banning non-consensual PvP. This is in reply to the poster above. I'm bumping my own post on to the 2nd page as its obviously been missed all the way down there at the end of the first page.
Dzil Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.06.29 14:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Shade Millith I can kinda see why they're removing the freeforms Other than scamming, what's the point of HAVING freeforms? This, tbh. Freeforms would have been fine if they didn't actually interact with your wallet in any way. Then they could have represented a formal, in game agreement by two parties. Let all isk exchange run separate. Instead, we got contracts that automatically pull isk from your wallet, but have no teeth to enforce compliance to the terms of the contract. IE the mechanic was completely broken from the start. I'm glad they are being removed: scamming via broken game mechanics just doesn't have the same panache as good ole social engineering. ---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ----------------------
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2009.06.29 15:25:00 - [38] Originally by: Miney Prospector What bothers me about the removal of freeforms is the principalities of the thing. I have read in the past over and over about how CCP has no plans to remove them from the game, blah blah blah. Well, now that they are removing them I wonder what will be next in the CCP sniper scope that they have said over and over again they won't remove/tamper with. They try to pander to the pvp crowd in their smugness about how tough the eve universe is but all they appear to be doing is watering the game down. It's pretty much the sign of the end approaching as historically mmos do not survive being changed from the original product. I hope it isn't the case but it won't be the first time I've seen it happen. Suicide ganking will be next, now that Hulk ganks are becoming the rage.
Elithria Gallente Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2009.06.29 15:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Ana Vyr Originally by: Miney Prospector What bothers me about the removal of freeforms is the principalities of the thing. I have read in the past over and over about how CCP has no plans to remove them from the game, blah blah blah. Well, now that they are removing them I wonder what will be next in the CCP sniper scope that they have said over and over again they won't remove/tamper with. They try to pander to the pvp crowd in their smugness about how tough the eve universe is but all they appear to be doing is watering the game down. It's pretty much the sign of the end approaching as historically mmos do not survive being changed from the original product. I hope it isn't the case but it won't be the first time I've seen it happen. Suicide ganking will be next, now that Hulk ganks are becoming the rage. I hope not, they have nerfed that several times already.
CHED Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.06.29 16:09:00 - [40] Originally by: Asuka Smith Contract spamming is not "scamming" it is "annoying". You cannot spam freeforms. or were you actually meaning to say something completely unrelated to this thread?

CHED Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.06.29 16:12:00 - [41] Originally by: Dzil Originally by: Shade Millith I can kinda see why they're removing the freeforms Other than scamming, what's the point of HAVING freeforms? This, tbh. Freeforms would have been fine if they didn't actually interact with your wallet in any way. Then they could have represented a formal, in game agreement by two parties. Let all isk exchange run separate. Instead, we got contracts that automatically pull isk from your wallet, but have no teeth to enforce compliance to the terms of the contract. IE the mechanic was completely broken from the start. I'm glad they are being removed: scamming via broken game mechanics just doesn't have the same panache as good ole social engineering. I believe you have to socially engineer someone to accept a contract that says when you first click on it you don't receive anything from this contract, don't you?
Liam Redstone	Posted - 2009.06.29 16:12:00 - [42] It all comes down to this: EVE is a business. CCP will do what they need to do in order to make money. If they see they can get (and keep) 10000 more subscribers by making the game more noob friendly, well they really don't give a **** if C&P likes it not. Adapt, overcome or GTFO.
Fumen	Posted - 2009.06.29 18:12:00 - [43] Originally by: Liam Redstone It all comes down to this: EVE is a business. CCP will do what they need to do in order to make money. If they see they can get (and keep) 10000 more subscribers by making the game more noob friendly, well they really don't give a ** if C&P likes it not. Adapt, overcome or GTFO. You forgot one thing: Can I haz ur stuffz?**
sir gankalot	Posted - 2009.06.29 19:07:00 - [44] I can haz stuff of ppl quiting? \o/
El Smol	Posted - 2009.06.29 21:50:00 - [45] Originally by: Dzil Originally by: Shade Millith I can kinda see why they're removing the freeforms Other than scamming, what's the point of HAVING freeforms? This, tbh. Freeforms would have been fine if they didn't actually interact with your wallet in any way. Then they could have represented a formal, in game agreement by two parties. Let all isk exchange run separate. Instead, we got contracts that automatically pull isk from your wallet, but have no teeth to enforce compliance to the terms of the contract. IE the mechanic was completely broken from the start. I'm glad they are being removed: scamming via broken game mechanics just doesn't have the same panache as good ole social engineering. Couldn't have said it better myself. All those that say "oh noes we'll become WoW" are most likely scammers themselves. Freeforms were broken from the very beginning and I for one wont miss them one bit (maybe because I don't scam in any way?). If they wanted FFs to be an RP-toy they should stay the **** out of people's wallets.
Swalesey	Posted - 2009.06.29 22:48:00 - [46] Edited by: Swalesey on 29/06/2009 22:51:42 Edited by: Swalesey on 29/06/2009 22:50:43 Edited by: Swalesey on 29/06/2009 22:50:12 I think they were designed for people to use who are "honest" and have some kind of "morals". Someone who had not played internet spaceships must have thought of that one. I don't think they needed removing, but maybe stick a tutorial about them on the welcome page for contracts telling how they work. Then if the people falling for them still can't work it out, it's there own fault. As said previously, there were more warning messages accepting one than you get on your average hand grenade. EDIT:Paragraphs, punctuation etc etc etc EDIT 2: God damn O.o Who he hell wrote this out..
Asuka Smith Gallente StarHunt	Posted - 2009.06.29 23:17:00 - [47] I will agree that removing these freeforms looks like a slippery slope, but I think they were removed over complaints of spam contract scams in market hubs rather than as a way to remove scamming from EVE. When they ban can-flipping and other blatant grief tactics then we can all start to worry. I think that messing with contracts has a lot more to do with the market-hub scambot problem though.
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.29 23:39:00 - [48] Scamming was better when most of the contracts in market hubs were legit and you totally weren't expecting it. Real WTF moments Inappropriate content removed. Please keep signature EVE related. Zymurgist
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.06.29 23:59:00 - [49] Freeform contracts were only useful for scamming anyway.
FunzzeR Statistical Arbitrage	Posted - 2009.06.30 00:00:00 - [50] Originally by: Asuka Smith I will agree that removing these freeforms looks like a slippery slope, but I think they were removed over complaints of spam contract scams in market hubs rather than as a way to remove scamming from EVE. When they ban can-flipping and other blatant grief tactics then we can all start to worry. I think that messing with contracts has a lot more to do with the market-hub scambot problem though. One hole in that arguement, you could not spam freeforms in local nor issue them as "public" contracts.

Cre'nor	Posted - 2009.06.30 00:05:00 - [51] Originally by: Aduril probably getting 8 players to emoragequit after scamming them of all their ISK in the last week didn't help... i cant make money anymore as i suck at eve so i'm quitting, and i'm not giving any of my 38 billion away Noooo! Wait! Don't just waste that money. You can give it to me. I'll put it to good use. In fact, to prove I'm trustworthy, I'll give you 10 billion of my own ISK. It'll go like this, I'll make a freeform contract for 10 billion ISK, and you put up your 38 billion as collateral...
Athena Tarsis Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2009.06.30 00:34:00 - [52] I think those that levy complaints of "removing freeform contracts makes Eve more WoW-like" are really turned around in their logic. In my experience, the only folks that actually enjoy stealing from other players through mechanics such as 'freeform contracts' or other forms of juvenile, lying-based 'strategies', are those that seem to swarm to games like WoW. These kinds of behaviorisms resonate much more clearly with the underage "lolz my uber-80 just ganked your lvl 11 while it was killing lvl 11 boars in the forest for a lvl 11 quest. lololol!! what a nub!! lolzlolz!!!!" type of crowd. Scammers in Eve are the exception, not the rule. Hindering the ability to bring their immature activities to Eve doesn't bring it closer to WoW, but rather distinguishes it from such games by raising the bar on the play styles.
Panzram GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.06.30 01:30:00 - [53] Free-forms werent so much a scam as a bamboozlement.
ShadowMaiden Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.06.30 12:04:00 - [54] Obligatory "Goodnight sweet prince"
Rielhe Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.06.30 15:21:00 - [55] oh come on, everyone knows that only the most fail scammers used freeforms. at least this provokes originality (or there will probably be more people doing the "TRADE AT 4-4 FOR UBER CHEAP NAVY ISSUES LULZ")
Grunanca Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.06.30 15:51:00 - [56] Originally by: Athena Tarsis I think those that levy complaints of "removing freeform contracts makes Eve more WoW-like" are really turned around in their logic. In my experience, the only folks that actually enjoy stealing from other players through mechanics such as 'freeform contracts' or other forms of juvenile, lying-based 'strategies', are those that seem to swarm to games like WoW. These kinds of behaviorisms resonate much more clearly with the underage "lolz my uber-80 just ganked your lvl 11 while it was killing lvl 11 boars in the forest for a lvl 11 quest. lololol!! what a nub!! lolzlolz!!!!" type of crowd. Scammers in Eve are the exception, not the rule. Hindering the ability to bring their immature activities to Eve doesn't bring it closer to WoW, but rather distinguishes it from such games by raising the bar on the play styles. I dont think you could be more wrong. The wow crowd are the people who spam contracts in tradehub (which cant be freeform as they cant be made pucblic)or simply grind missions all day long because grinding is what wow taught them. I know quite a lot very succesful scammers, and most of them are around 25-30 years old, intelligent with good jobs and with family and all that. Most of them havent even considered playing a game which looks like a cartoon movie (wow). Funny all people who are outsmarted by others imediately claims that it was a child with no life nor intelligence who did it. It says more about the victim than the guy outsmarting the victim...
Athena Tarsis Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2009.06.30 20:28:00 - [57] Originally by: Grunanca I dont think you could be more wrong. The wow crowd are the people who spam contracts in tradehub (which cant be freeform as they cant be made pucblic)or simply grind missions all day long because grinding is what wow taught them. I know quite a lot very succesful scammers, and most of them are around 25-30 years old, intelligent with good jobs and with family and all that. Most of them havent even considered playing a game which looks like a cartoon movie (wow). Funny all people who are outsmarted by others imediately claims that it was a child with no life nor intelligence who did it. It says more about the victim than the guy outsmarting the victim... Hmm. Saying someone was 'outsmarted' by a scammer is like saying someone that was shot in the back 'got their butt kicked'. And though my personal adventures are not the topic here, I've fallen victim to pirates a couple of times, but not scammers; I was warned ahead of time and their efforts are usually pretty transparent. At the risk of sounding like I'm dancing around semantics, I'm not claiming scammers are necessarily physically juveniles. Their behaviors, in Eve, are. I have no idea how many people in Eve play, or have played WoW. The 'cartoon movie' look isn't the issue at hand -- it's self-evident that Eve and WoW have absolutely no visual similarities. These two games are so vastly different, there are few areas you can form a basis of comparison on ... except perhaps the player bases. Personally, I tried WoW shortly after it came out, for about a week. I tried it again at the behest of my youngest son a year or so later, for a couple of days. In both cases, what drove me from the game was not the visual look or the UI, but was largely the immature player base. There are people in this thread suggesting that removing freeform contracts make this game more 'WoW-like'. Obviously, the assertion is that by removing freeforms Eve becomes a 'safer' game, and therefore more WoW-like. My contention is that lying to people to steal their in-game goods doesn't contribute to any real sense of danger. At the least, it's annoying. At most, it breeds cynicism and turns new players away from the game. In either case, it does absolutely nothing to add to the fabric of the game and only detracts. Pirates can help illustrate this point: as much as I hate pirates and pirate activity in Eve, I do recognize that their existence in the game does lend an element of risk and danger to everything, which admittedly adds a necessary bit of spice. I still spit at them, but acknowledge their contribution to the Eve experience. Scammers add nothing. They contribute nothing beneficial or meaningful to the game. Much like the ridiculous behavior of so much of the WoW player base, scammers come across as petty, unsophisticated punks. Eve, as a whole, is made a little bit worse, a little bit weaker, for every liar out there doing their best to undermine the players around them.


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